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Nearfield monitors distance

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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 1:38:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters, while about 1 meter
was reasonable. My nearfields are about 2,20 meters away from each other -
measured center to center . They are about 0,5m behind the rear of my desk,
which stands about 1 meter away from any walls.

When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left and
right monitor is actually given.

The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away from
my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
distance.

Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together, like 1
meter distance, whick would most likely mean placing them on the desk
instead of behind?

Thanks,
Juergen
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 1:38:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Juergen,

> I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters <

Whenever someone says "always" or "never" I'm suspicious.

> When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left and
right monitor is actually given. <

Do you mean you have the speakers and mix position set as an equilateral
triangle?

> The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away
from my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
distance. <

More important, you probably need some absorption at the first reflection
points on the side walls, and optionally the ceiling too.

> Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together <

How big is the entire room? Do you have any room treatment?

--Ethan
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 3:28:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
>nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters, while about 1 meter
>was reasonable. My nearfields are about 2,20 meters away from each other -
>measured center to center . They are about 0,5m behind the rear of my desk,
>which stands about 1 meter away from any walls.
>
>When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left and
>right monitor is actually given.
>
>The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away from
>my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
>distance.
>
>Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together, like 1
>meter distance, whick would most likely mean placing them on the desk
>instead of behind?


Don't ASK us! TELL us!

Try moving them. Do they sound better?

My experience suggests a remarkable improvement from moving nearfileds
into free space - well away from any wall. Quite different to the
typical mixing position set facing a wall, desk below, shelves
above.... And don't be afraid to work close to the speakers.

I've developed a rule-of-thumb that may have little scientific basis,
but seems to work. Position the speakers so that they are nearer to
you than they are to any reflective surface - walls, ceiling, desk.
Let the direct sound predominate.



CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 5:37:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Juergen Klotz <123check@onlinerock.com> wrote:
>
>I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
>nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters, while about 1 meter
>was reasonable. My nearfields are about 2,20 meters away from each other -
>measured center to center . They are about 0,5m behind the rear of my desk,
>which stands about 1 meter away from any walls.

Well, they stop being nearfields at that point. Is that bad?

>When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left and
>right monitor is actually given.
>
>The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away from
>my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
>distance.
>
>Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together, like 1
>meter distance, whick would most likely mean placing them on the desk
>instead of behind?

If your goal is isolation from room effects, maybe. But if it's a good
room, that really shouldn't be all that big an issue. Does it sound
good?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 9:21:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne wrote:

>Don't ASK us! TELL us!
>
>Try moving them. Do they sound better?

If you accept that the goal of studio monitoring is objective accuracy then
positioning for best subjective sound is not a valid approach.

--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 1:13:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left
and
> right monitor is actually given. <
>
> Do you mean you have the speakers and mix position set as an equilateral
> triangle?

Yes, exactly.

> > The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away
> from my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
> distance. <
>
> More important, you probably need some absorption at the first reflection
> points on the side walls, and optionally the ceiling too.

Yes, I mounted 3 self-made panels about 1x1,5 meters size to avoid early
reflections: one left and right hand, one above the desk at the ceiling.
Those panels are wave-shaped acoustic foam mounted to a wooden frame. There
is actually about 4 cm space between the foam and the wall/ceiling. I know
this might not have that huge benefit on low frequencies. I placed some
more furniture like shelves etc. to the back of the room, and put some
rather thin carpet to the ground.

> > Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together <
>
> How big is the entire room? Do you have any room treatment?

The control room is 6 meters x 3,60 meters. It is a basement room with
concrete walls. The long side of the room has a kind of bay/oriel with a
daylight window so I placed the my desk there. It really is a pleasure to
work with that daylight in front. As the room is big enough, I've been able
to place the whole desk more towards the middle, giving me enough room to
place the monitors behind the desk. If you like, I can post a floor plan and
some pictures of the room and my desk/room treatment.

> --Ethan

Hey, I think I've considered your great website when I began to think about
room treatment some time ago!

Regards,
Juergen
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 1:24:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Don't ASK us! TELL us!
>
> Try moving them. Do they sound better?

My other job only leaves very limited time for the things in life that make
fun. That's why I've been asking before. Placing them on the desk would
required some rework for my desk to get the optimum listening height.

Indeed I moved them closer temporarily for testing. Well, it sounded
different. Can't really tell what I liked better. I'm not sure which setup
is more likely to give me good mixing results.

> My experience suggests a remarkable improvement from moving nearfileds
> into free space - well away from any wall. Quite different to the
> typical mixing position set facing a wall, desk below, shelves
> above.... And don't be afraid to work close to the speakers.
>
> I've developed a rule-of-thumb that may have little scientific basis,
> but seems to work. Position the speakers so that they are nearer to
> you than they are to any reflective surface - walls, ceiling, desk.
> Let the direct sound predominate.

Okay, my listening position is closer to the speakers than any reflection
surface, maybe the rear wall is an exception. Actually, I don't have that
much professional equipment. I'm currently running a pair of Tannoy Reveals
passive through a good hifi amp with a flat response. I have a pair of big
boom boom speakers to compare, as well as Sony MDR 7566 and Sennheiser
headphones. I plan to upgrade to an additional pair of NS-10 and a decent
monitor amp one day.

Thank you all for your kind help. Any further hints are welcome!

Juergen
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 1:31:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> >I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
> >nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters, while about 1
meter
> >was reasonable. My nearfields are about 2,20 meters away from each
other -
> >measured center to center . They are about 0,5m behind the rear of my
desk,
> >which stands about 1 meter away from any walls.
>
> Well, they stop being nearfields at that point. Is that bad?

Not necessarily. I love to switch to from my nearfield monitors to my hifi
boom speakers and back to compare.

> >When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left
and
> >right monitor is actually given.
> >
> >The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away
from
> >my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
> >distance.
> >
> >Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together, like
1
> >meter distance, whick would most likely mean placing them on the desk
> >instead of behind?
>
> If your goal is isolation from room effects, maybe. But if it's a good
> room, that really shouldn't be all that big an issue. Does it sound
> good?

I'm not too sure about the room quality, as the room is not symmetrical,
which as I read several times, is quite important. Actually, it's a pleasure
to work there, with daylight, not (!) soundproofing trouble (basement of my
own one-family house). And from my perspective, it does sound good. I was a
bit unsettled because of the rules and recommendations around. But I'm not
sure wheter the results mixed there really sound well on other systems. Time
will tell.

Thanks!
Juergen
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 5:22:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Michael R. Kesti" <mkesti@gv.net> wrote in
news:41214F98.622A15FE@gv.net:

> Laurence Payne wrote:
>
>>Don't ASK us! TELL us!
>>
>>Try moving them. Do they sound better?
>
> If you accept that the goal of studio monitoring is objective accuracy
> then positioning for best subjective sound is not a valid approach.

But if you first stipulate that the sound coming out now is "incorrect"
then striving for linearity is perfectly valid.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 7:08:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Something to be aware of is that the distance from the speakers to the room
boundaries will cause cancellation at certain frequencies. This can
sometimes be used to counteract room modes, such as the 70Hz bump you get
from an 8' ceiling. http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm

"Juergen Klotz" <123check@onlinerock.com> wrote in message
news:2obepnF8q1heU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Hi,
>
> I recently read in a mixing guide that the maximum distance between two
> nearfield monitor speakers should never exceed 2 meters, while about 1
meter
> was reasonable. My nearfields are about 2,20 meters away from each other -
> measured center to center . They are about 0,5m behind the rear of my
desk,
> which stands about 1 meter away from any walls.
>
> When I sit at my desk, the recommended triangle between listener, left and
> right monitor is actually given.
>
> The room is not equal, I have a brick wall right hand (> 2 meters away
from
> my listening position) and just a movable wooden wall left hand, same
> distance.
>
> Would I benefit from moving the nearfield speakers closer together, like 1
> meter distance, whick would most likely mean placing them on the desk
> instead of behind?
>
> Thanks,
> Juergen
>
>
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 11:15:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Juergen,

> Those panels are wave-shaped acoustic foam <

That will help a little with early reflections, but not at lower frequencies
which to me are just as important to control.

> The control room is 6 meters x 3,60 meters. It is a basement room with
concrete walls. <

That's large enough for decent results, but the concrete doesn't help.

I'd set up so the speakers face the long way into the room. Then put your
mix position 2.3 meters from the front wall (the wall you face while
listening). Then arrange the speakers in a triangle based on that mix
position.

--Ethan
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 1:54:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:21:44 -0700, "Michael R. Kesti" <mkesti@gv.net>
wrote:

>>Try moving them. Do they sound better?
>
>If you accept that the goal of studio monitoring is objective accuracy then
>positioning for best subjective sound is not a valid approach.

I doubt that experimental positioning to improve stereo image would be
harmful?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
!