Video game ban moves forward in Illinois

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/

Video game ban moves forward in Illinois

Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
concerns that it might be unconstitutional.


Under the proposal, which now goes to the House floor, any store that
violated the ban could face misdemeanor charges and fines of up to
$5,000.

Blagojevich has been pushing the idea for several months, arguing in
town hall meetings and national interviews that the games desensitize
children to violence. He says they can lead to anti-social behavior and
even obesity.


On Wednesday, he applauded the House civil law committee for approving
the "sensible and necessary legislation."

But courts have struck down similar laws in Washington, Missouri and
Indiana as too broad and in violation of free speech.

Even some lawmakers who voted for the bill said they were concerned it
is too vague.

"This bill does not have clear standards to the people that need to
know what the standards are - the parents, the kids, the clerk, the
manager at Best Buy," said Rep. Lou Lang, D-Skokie. "These are people
that will not have a clear standard under this bill as to what is or is
not OK."

The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
games with black-and-white stickers reading "18." Stores would have the
burden of figuring out which games could legally be sold to minors and
which couldn't.

David Vite, president of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association,
said the legislation's restrictions on games depicting "human on human
violence" could mean that stores can be fined for selling football
games to teenagers.

He also questioned the sincerity of the bill's supporters, suggesting
they fear that voting against the measure would hurt them in future
elections.

"It's pandering, and it's wrong," he said.

Harvard University professor Michael Rich argued Blagojevich's position
before the committee Wednesday, saying the law is necessary because
kids may act out in real life the violent or sexual behaviors they
practice in virtual reality.

"Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question is:
what are they learning?"
24 answers Last reply
More about video game moves forward illinois
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    OnePunchMickey wrote:
    > FunkyDevil wrote:
    >
    > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
    > >
    > > Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
    > >
    > > Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
    > >
    > > The Associated Press
    > > Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
    > >
    > > SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
    > > stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
    > > children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday,
    despite
    > > concerns that it might be unconstitutional.
    >
    > Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be
    anyway.

    Sure. They have age limits on films, why not apply them to games more
    stringently. Modern games (especially FPSs) are becoming more cinematic
    in style and visuals, so why not apply the same kind of restrictions on
    their sale.

    Question for discussion: would this open up the opportunities for
    sexually explicit content in 18 rated games?
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    FunkyDevil wrote:

    > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
    >
    > Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
    >
    > Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
    >
    > The Associated Press
    > Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
    >
    > SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
    > stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
    > children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
    > concerns that it might be unconstitutional.

    Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:50:27 +0000, OnePunchMickey
    <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:


    >Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
    >

    Yea, I can see a game like Chronicles of Riddick not being sold to
    minors but I was in the store on day and they wouldn't sell DiabloII
    to a kid who was about 12. DiabloII is adult material? It's a stupid
    kids game.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com> wrote in
    news:1110889143.151531.130900@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    > The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
    > games with black-and-white stickers reading "18."

    Every game I've seen in recent years already has such a disclaimer on
    the box; the rating system is already in place. All that's needed is
    for the stores to not sell "M"-rated games to minors.

    Of course, nothing stops clueless parents from buying said "M" games for
    their pre-teens. Then they blame the store for their own incompetence.


    stePH
    --
    If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
    We are the chick. The world is our egg.
    If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
    Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    On 15 Mar 2005 04:19:03 -0800, "FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com>
    wrote:

    >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
    >
    >Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
    >
    >Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
    >
    >The Associated Press
    >Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
    >
    >SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
    >stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
    >children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
    >concerns that it might be unconstitutional.

    "Rated M for Mature", are they a bit behind the times or what?

    --
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
    of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    >
    > "Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question is:
    > what are they learning?"

    Dunno - what are they learning from parents?

    Jonah Falcon
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    stePH wrote:
    > "FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com> wrote in
    > news:1110889143.151531.130900@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
    >
    >
    >>The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
    >>games with black-and-white stickers reading "18."
    >
    >
    > Every game I've seen in recent years already has such a disclaimer on
    > the box; the rating system is already in place. All that's needed is
    > for the stores to not sell "M"-rated games to minors.
    >
    > Of course, nothing stops clueless parents from buying said "M" games for
    > their pre-teens. Then they blame the store for their own incompetence.
    >
    >
    > stePH

    I guess the thing I cannot understand is that (as you say) the rating
    system is already there - why would the new law be targeted at making
    stores label the boxes? How would a store owner know what scenes were
    in the game? Are they expected to play each one through and then make a
    subjective decision on what age it is aimed at? Why isn't the US just
    enforcing the existing rating system and pushing for fines on stores
    that sell games to those that are underage?

    --
    I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
    'done it'...
    What do you mean?
    Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
    Yes...
    What's it like?
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in
    news:kRFZd.5021$qf2.3606@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

    >> "Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question
    >> is: what are they learning?"
    >
    > Dunno - what are they learning from parents?

    That they're entitled to anything they want simply because they want it,
    and nothing is ever, *ever* their own fault.

    Apart from that, not much.


    stePH
    --
    If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
    We are the chick. The world is our egg.
    If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
    Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
    Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next since
    it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
    and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
    Well done voting out of fear.

    turk
    --
    " Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
    Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Nostromo wrote:

    > >Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your
    world.
    > >Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick
    next since
    > >it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church
    enough
    > >and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice
    City.
    > >Well done voting out of fear.
    >
    > You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/

    To have a real democracy the electoral college needs to be scrapped or
    overhauled, IMO. Otherwise, it's the SOS every four years.

    There's no conclusive evidence that violence in video games leads to
    violent behavior. Come on, kids understand a game isn't real. I agree
    it's conservative censorship. It's parents job, not government, to
    police what their kids are playing.

    Tara
    --
    "Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes . . . then, when
    you
    do criticize him, you'll be a mile away . . . and have his shoes."
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    FunkyDevil wrote:

    > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
    >
    > Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
    >


    Maybe because im in Australia, but i have never even seen a game with
    sexually explicit material.

    --
    DalienX
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thus spake Connected <connected@somewhere.here>, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:55:04
    -0800, Anno Domini:

    >On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:50:27 +0000, OnePunchMickey
    ><fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
    >>
    >
    >Yea, I can see a game like Chronicles of Riddick not being sold to
    >minors but I was in the store on day and they wouldn't sell DiabloII
    >to a kid who was about 12. DiabloII is adult material? It's a stupid
    >kids game.

    It's stylised but there's exploding demons & semi-human looking foes. Plus a
    lot of disturbing imagery, especially in the cur scenes. Actually, without
    being a nansy-pansy, there was one LAN-fest after the original D1 that kept
    me up at night. Or was it a coincidence? Hmmm...

    --
    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thus spake "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>, 15 Mar 2005 06:10:11 -0800,
    Anno Domini:

    >Question for discussion: would this open up the opportunities for
    >sexually explicit content in 18 rated games?

    We can only hope it's done tastefully, like most of the porn out there :)

    --
    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:lpqdnZR9NOPdKarfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
    > Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
    > Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next
    since
    > it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
    > and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
    > Well done voting out of fear.

    The Democrat Party controls the governor and both houses in Illinois, you
    idiot. This is a socialist Democrat governor doing this... and only to draw
    attention away from his own bungling incompetance.

    Do you think these kids care if they can't buy them in the stores? Gives
    them another excuse to pirate and never pay. Socialist stupidity.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    OldDog wrote:

    > You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids
    behavior. But
    > that isn't always the case.

    <snippage>

    Then that's poor parenting. I understand the wrong ideas that media
    presents, especially the unrealistic ideal of how women should look.
    But to hold the media or game industry as scape goat is not the way to
    go about it.

    Tara
    --
    War would end if the dead could return. - Stanley Baldwin
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thus spake "turk" <turk96@comcast.net>, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:21:20 -0600,
    Anno Domini:

    >Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
    >Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next since
    >it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
    >and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
    >Well done voting out of fear.
    >
    >turk

    You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/

    --
    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    On 16 Mar 2005 02:01:24 -0800, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
    wrote:
    >Agreed. I just re-read it and it sounds like the stores would have to
    >decide what the restrictions would be. How ludicrous is that? It's just
    >an invitation for a lawsuit.

    Exactly. they're not even proposing any guidelines, just telling the
    retailer that they have to make a responsible decision on the
    restriction. One man's definition of responsible is not the same as
    anothers and the lawyers will love it.
    >
    >As several people have pointed out, there is an established rating
    >system. All that needs to be done is to take whatever steps are
    >necessary to formalise that and make it illegal to sell an "18" game to
    >an under 18. Same as for films.

    If Europe can say 'hold on, why are we debating creating a new EU-wide
    rating system when this here video and video game rating system is
    already there ?', I don't see why the US can't do the same. There must
    be some reasoning behind them ignoring the existing system, surely ?
    >
    >The parents are then responsible for their children's viewing and
    >gaming purchases.

    I don't know when this changed, and parents considered that they did not
    have to exercise control over their kids, heck if I got caught doing
    anything naughty my parents got a knock on the door from the local
    policeman...
    >
    >Oh, and "EEC"? 20 years ago, maybe. It's the EU now.

    Bah, they can call it their new-fangled name if they like, it's still
    the EEC to me :)

    --
    Alfie
    <http://www.delphia.co.uk/>
    As they say at Microsoft - 'What do you want to reinstall today ?'
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Alfie [UK] wrote:

    >
    >>Oh, and "EEC"? 20 years ago, maybe. It's the EU now.
    >
    >
    > Bah, they can call it their new-fangled name if they like, it's still
    > the EEC to me :)
    >

    ....and it's still feet and inches and pounds and ounces for me... :-)


    --
    I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
    'done it'...
    What do you mean?
    Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
    Yes...
    What's it like?
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    <taragem72@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1110961220.166646.150720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Nostromo wrote:
    >
    > > >Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your
    > world.
    > > >Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick
    > next since
    > > >it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church
    > enough
    > > >and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice
    > City.
    > > >Well done voting out of fear.
    > >
    > > You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/
    >
    > To have a real democracy the electoral college needs to be scrapped or
    > overhauled, IMO. Otherwise, it's the SOS every four years.
    >
    > There's no conclusive evidence that violence in video games leads to
    > violent behavior. Come on, kids understand a game isn't real. I agree
    > it's conservative censorship. It's parents job, not government, to
    > police what their kids are playing.
    >
    > Tara

    You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids behavior. But
    that isn't always the case. When I was young puppy, if my mom told me not
    to do something, I figured it was because she just didn't want me to have
    fun. So I usually ran off and did it anyway. Like run across the street
    without looking both ways. ;)

    IMO our environment (TV, printed material, school, home life, sports, ...)
    does play a role in our up bringing. Well into my 30s I rarely discussed
    any problems with my spouse. Why? Because the main characters on TV
    didn't pause to discuss their problems. They usually whipped out a gun or
    beat up the villain.

    Today when my daughter and I watch TV, we'll discuss the commercials and
    what they're trying to get the consumer to do. After watching the
    Budweiser Clydesdales romp in the snow, I tell her that I'm in the mood for
    some Budweiser. And two mins later, after watching the geeky guy get the
    girls in the Miller ad, I'm ready for a Miller. ;)

    Plus we've got girls in middle school that think they're fat because they
    look at all the skinny women on the front of the fashion magazines. These
    poor girls barely eat and wind up tossing up most of the food.

    Bottom line: kids are bombarded with stuff everyday. But how many
    parents spend the time to help them?
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    OldDog wrote:

    > Oh I agree. I don't think the media should be held accountable for
    their
    > products. I think the parents should be. But that wouldn't change
    a lot
    > of parenting in the world. IMO it seems the government has stepped
    in to
    > try and fill the void in order to protect our youth.

    Then we have the "slippery slope" of how far does gobermint go? Imo,
    the gov't has no right to censor anything -- that doesn't fall within
    its purposes. Of course, the current administration and conservative
    Christian groups want nothing but Ozzie and Harriet-type shows and CBS
    fined a half-million dollars for a few seconds of a female breast on
    TV. It's interesting to note that most of the complaints to the FCC
    came from one organization (I believe it was media watch). They're now
    trying to regulate what we can watch on cable and satellite, though the
    consensus is it'll never pass.

    > Gotta go. The Budweiser horses are back on and I feel the urge to
    drink.

    Funny, the clydesdales never affected me that way. :P

    Tara
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    <taragem72@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1111016453.781852.207860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > OldDog wrote:
    >
    > > You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids
    > behavior. But
    > > that isn't always the case.
    >
    > <snippage>
    >
    > Then that's poor parenting. I understand the wrong ideas that media
    > presents, especially the unrealistic ideal of how women should look.
    > But to hold the media or game industry as scape goat is not the way to
    > go about it.
    >
    > Tara

    Oh I agree. I don't think the media should be held accountable for their
    products. I think the parents should be. But that wouldn't change a lot
    of parenting in the world. IMO it seems the government has stepped in to
    try and fill the void in order to protect our youth.

    As a parent, I do look at the ratings of DVDs when we go to rent them.
    Also, I try to screen some of the books that my daughter wants to read.
    While she's currently into the horror genre, I've told her to wait a few
    years before reading Steven King novels.

    As for video games, most of it pretty mild on the gore/language. In fact,
    she's told me that she hears the f-word more on the school bus than she does
    in anywhere else. d$mN them skool kids!

    Plus, I try talk to her about what she's reading, seeing and hearing in the
    media. But am I doing a good job of it? Only time will tell.

    Gotta go. The Budweiser horses are back on and I feel the urge to drink.
    ;)

    OldDog
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Alfie [UK]" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    news:9ksg319jj2fj3u96lqpgcgp6kr3m3bnc4v@4ax.com...

    > >As several people have pointed out, there is an established rating
    > >system. All that needs to be done is to take whatever steps are
    > >necessary to formalise that and make it illegal to sell an "18" game to
    > >an under 18. Same as for films.
    > If Europe can say 'hold on, why are we debating creating a new EU-wide
    > rating system when this here video and video game rating system is
    > already there ?', I don't see why the US can't do the same. There must
    > be some reasoning behind them ignoring the existing system, surely ?

    Well remember that the US is not the EU, we are not Europeans. However in
    this case it's just "look at me I'm trying to do something" politics,
    instead of enforcing the laws already on the books they simply propose more
    laws that do the same thing or create a parallel and redundant system. This
    happens on a variety of issues.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in
    news:113j9cj4gh98j4e@news.supernews.com:

    > Well remember that the US is not the EU, we are not Europeans. However
    > in this case it's just "look at me I'm trying to do something"
    > politics, instead of enforcing the laws already on the books they
    > simply propose more laws that do the same thing or create a parallel
    > and redundant system. This happens on a variety of issues.

    Desperate nerds in high offices all over the world have been known to
    enact the most disgusting pieces of legislation in order to win votes
    (or, in places where they don't get to vote, to control unwanted forms
    of mass behavior).
    Environmental laws were not passed to protect our air and water...
    they were passed to get votes. Seasonal anti-smut campaigns are not
    conducted to rid our communities of moral rot...they are conducted to
    give an aura of saintliness to the office-seekers who demand them. If a
    few key phrases are thrown into any speech (as the expert advisors
    explain to these various heads of state) votes will roll in, bucks will
    roll in, and, most importantly, power will be maintained by the groovy
    guy (or gal) who gets the most media coverage for his sleaze. Naturally,
    his friends in various businesses will do okay too.

    -- Frank V. Zappa, Prelude to _Joe's Garage_


    stePH
    --
    If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
    We are the chick. The world is our egg.
    If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
    Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in
    news:sP0_d.7668$8D.1591@tornado.texas.rr.com:

    > IMO our environment (TV, printed material, school, home life, sports,
    > ...) does play a role in our up bringing. Well into my 30s I rarely
    > discussed any problems with my spouse. Why? Because the main
    > characters on TV didn't pause to discuss their problems. They
    > usually whipped out a gun or beat up the villain.
    >
    > Today when my daughter and I watch TV, we'll discuss the commercials
    > and what they're trying to get the consumer to do. After watching
    > the Budweiser Clydesdales romp in the snow, I tell her that I'm in the
    > mood for some Budweiser. And two mins later, after watching the geeky
    > guy get the girls in the Miller ad, I'm ready for a Miller. ;)

    Sorry to hear that you're so weak-willed -- but admitting you have a
    problem *is* the first step in correcting it.


    stePH
    --
    If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
    We are the chick. The world is our egg.
    If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
    Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
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