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Video game ban moves forward in Illinois

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Anonymous
March 15, 2005 7:19:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/

Video game ban moves forward in Illinois

Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
concerns that it might be unconstitutional.


Under the proposal, which now goes to the House floor, any store that
violated the ban could face misdemeanor charges and fines of up to
$5,000.

Blagojevich has been pushing the idea for several months, arguing in
town hall meetings and national interviews that the games desensitize
children to violence. He says they can lead to anti-social behavior and
even obesity.


On Wednesday, he applauded the House civil law committee for approving
the "sensible and necessary legislation."

But courts have struck down similar laws in Washington, Missouri and
Indiana as too broad and in violation of free speech.

Even some lawmakers who voted for the bill said they were concerned it
is too vague.

"This bill does not have clear standards to the people that need to
know what the standards are - the parents, the kids, the clerk, the
manager at Best Buy," said Rep. Lou Lang, D-Skokie. "These are people
that will not have a clear standard under this bill as to what is or is
not OK."

The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
games with black-and-white stickers reading "18." Stores would have the
burden of figuring out which games could legally be sold to minors and
which couldn't.

David Vite, president of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association,
said the legislation's restrictions on games depicting "human on human
violence" could mean that stores can be fined for selling football
games to teenagers.

He also questioned the sincerity of the bill's supporters, suggesting
they fear that voting against the measure would hurt them in future
elections.

"It's pandering, and it's wrong," he said.

Harvard University professor Michael Rich argued Blagojevich's position
before the committee Wednesday, saying the law is necessary because
kids may act out in real life the violent or sexual behaviors they
practice in virtual reality.

"Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question is:
what are they learning?"
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:10:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

OnePunchMickey wrote:
> FunkyDevil wrote:
>
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
> >
> > Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
> >
> > Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
> >
> > The Associated Press
> > Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
> >
> > SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
> > stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
> > children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday,
despite
> > concerns that it might be unconstitutional.
>
> Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be
anyway.

Sure. They have age limits on films, why not apply them to games more
stringently. Modern games (especially FPSs) are becoming more cinematic
in style and visuals, so why not apply the same kind of restrictions on
their sale.

Question for discussion: would this open up the opportunities for
sexually explicit content in 18 rated games?
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:50:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

FunkyDevil wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
>
> Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
>
> Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
>
> The Associated Press
> Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
>
> SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
> stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
> children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
> concerns that it might be unconstitutional.

Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:50:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:50:27 +0000, OnePunchMickey
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:


>Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
>

Yea, I can see a game like Chronicles of Riddick not being sold to
minors but I was in the store on day and they wouldn't sell DiabloII
to a kid who was about 12. DiabloII is adult material? It's a stupid
kids game.
March 15, 2005 5:40:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com> wrote in
news:1110889143.151531.130900@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
> games with black-and-white stickers reading "18."

Every game I've seen in recent years already has such a disclaimer on
the box; the rating system is already in place. All that's needed is
for the stores to not sell "M"-rated games to minors.

Of course, nothing stops clueless parents from buying said "M" games for
their pre-teens. Then they blame the store for their own incompetence.


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 7:02:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 15 Mar 2005 04:19:03 -0800, "FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
>
>Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
>
>Under governor's proposal, stores could be fined
>
>The Associated Press
>Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET March 10, 2005
>
>SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's proposal to bar
>stores from selling violent and sexually explicit video games to
>children unanimously passed a state House committee Wednesday, despite
>concerns that it might be unconstitutional.

"Rated M for Mature", are they a bit behind the times or what?

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:30:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>
> "Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question is:
> what are they learning?"

Dunno - what are they learning from parents?

Jonah Falcon
March 15, 2005 10:15:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

stePH wrote:
> "FunkyDevil" <qs8rzr001@sneakemail.com> wrote in
> news:1110889143.151531.130900@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>The legislation requires stores to label violent or sexually explicit
>>games with black-and-white stickers reading "18."
>
>
> Every game I've seen in recent years already has such a disclaimer on
> the box; the rating system is already in place. All that's needed is
> for the stores to not sell "M"-rated games to minors.
>
> Of course, nothing stops clueless parents from buying said "M" games for
> their pre-teens. Then they blame the store for their own incompetence.
>
>
> stePH

I guess the thing I cannot understand is that (as you say) the rating
system is already there - why would the new law be targeted at making
stores label the boxes? How would a store owner know what scenes were
in the game? Are they expected to play each one through and then make a
subjective decision on what age it is aimed at? Why isn't the US just
enforcing the existing rating system and pushing for fines on stores
that sell games to those that are underage?

--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
March 16, 2005 12:03:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:kRFZd.5021$qf2.3606@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

>> "Children are learning from video games," Rich said. "The question
>> is: what are they learning?"
>
> Dunno - what are they learning from parents?

That they're entitled to anything they want simply because they want it,
and nothing is ever, *ever* their own fault.

Apart from that, not much.



stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
March 16, 2005 1:21:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next since
it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
Well done voting out of fear.

turk
--
" Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 3:20:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Nostromo wrote:

> >Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your
world.
> >Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick
next since
> >it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church
enough
> >and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice
City.
> >Well done voting out of fear.
>
> You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/

To have a real democracy the electoral college needs to be scrapped or
overhauled, IMO. Otherwise, it's the SOS every four years.

There's no conclusive evidence that violence in video games leads to
violent behavior. Come on, kids understand a game isn't real. I agree
it's conservative censorship. It's parents job, not government, to
police what their kids are playing.

Tara
--
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes . . . then, when
you
do criticize him, you'll be a mile away . . . and have his shoes."
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 6:44:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

FunkyDevil wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149850/
>
> Video game ban moves forward in Illinois
>


Maybe because im in Australia, but i have never even seen a game with
sexually explicit material.

--
DalienX
March 16, 2005 10:35:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Connected <connected@somewhere.here>, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:55:04
-0800, Anno Domini:

>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:50:27 +0000, OnePunchMickey
><fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Not selling adult games to kids? Fair enough, they shouldn't be anyway.
>>
>
>Yea, I can see a game like Chronicles of Riddick not being sold to
>minors but I was in the store on day and they wouldn't sell DiabloII
>to a kid who was about 12. DiabloII is adult material? It's a stupid
>kids game.

It's stylised but there's exploding demons & semi-human looking foes. Plus a
lot of disturbing imagery, especially in the cur scenes. Actually, without
being a nansy-pansy, there was one LAN-fest after the original D1 that kept
me up at night. Or was it a coincidence? Hmmm...

--
Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
March 16, 2005 10:36:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>, 15 Mar 2005 06:10:11 -0800,
Anno Domini:

>Question for discussion: would this open up the opportunities for
>sexually explicit content in 18 rated games?

We can only hope it's done tastefully, like most of the porn out there :) 

--
Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 12:37:17 PM

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"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lpqdnZR9NOPdKarfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
> Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next
since
> it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
> and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
> Well done voting out of fear.

The Democrat Party controls the governor and both houses in Illinois, you
idiot. This is a socialist Democrat governor doing this... and only to draw
attention away from his own bungling incompetance.

Do you think these kids care if they can't buy them in the stores? Gives
them another excuse to pirate and never pay. Socialist stupidity.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 6:40:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

OldDog wrote:

> You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids
behavior. But
> that isn't always the case.

<snippage>

Then that's poor parenting. I understand the wrong ideas that media
presents, especially the unrealistic ideal of how women should look.
But to hold the media or game industry as scape goat is not the way to
go about it.

Tara
--
War would end if the dead could return. - Stanley Baldwin
March 16, 2005 9:02:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "turk" <turk96@comcast.net>, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:21:20 -0600,
Anno Domini:

>Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your world.
>Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick next since
>it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church enough
>and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice City.
>Well done voting out of fear.
>
>turk

You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/

--
Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 9:02:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 16 Mar 2005 02:01:24 -0800, "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Agreed. I just re-read it and it sounds like the stores would have to
>decide what the restrictions would be. How ludicrous is that? It's just
>an invitation for a lawsuit.

Exactly. they're not even proposing any guidelines, just telling the
retailer that they have to make a responsible decision on the
restriction. One man's definition of responsible is not the same as
anothers and the lawyers will love it.
>
>As several people have pointed out, there is an established rating
>system. All that needs to be done is to take whatever steps are
>necessary to formalise that and make it illegal to sell an "18" game to
>an under 18. Same as for films.

If Europe can say 'hold on, why are we debating creating a new EU-wide
rating system when this here video and video game rating system is
already there ?', I don't see why the US can't do the same. There must
be some reasoning behind them ignoring the existing system, surely ?
>
>The parents are then responsible for their children's viewing and
>gaming purchases.

I don't know when this changed, and parents considered that they did not
have to exercise control over their kids, heck if I got caught doing
anything naughty my parents got a knock on the door from the local
policeman...
>
>Oh, and "EEC"? 20 years ago, maybe. It's the EU now.

Bah, they can call it their new-fangled name if they like, it's still
the EEC to me :) 

--
Alfie
<http://www.delphia.co.uk/&gt;
As they say at Microsoft - 'What do you want to reinstall today ?'
March 16, 2005 9:29:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Alfie [UK] wrote:

>
>>Oh, and "EEC"? 20 years ago, maybe. It's the EU now.
>
>
> Bah, they can call it their new-fangled name if they like, it's still
> the EEC to me :) 
>

....and it's still feet and inches and pounds and ounces for me... :-)


--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 11:38:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<taragem72@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110961220.166646.150720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Nostromo wrote:
>
> > >Well, for all you idiot "gamers" who voted Republican...here's your
> world.
> > >Good job. Maybe they can pass a law to take away my flight stick
> next since
> > >it looks too much like a falix symbol.. But hey, just go to church
> enough
> > >and the brainwashing will make sure you never miss that GTA: Vice
> City.
> > >Well done voting out of fear.
> >
> > You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? :-/
>
> To have a real democracy the electoral college needs to be scrapped or
> overhauled, IMO. Otherwise, it's the SOS every four years.
>
> There's no conclusive evidence that violence in video games leads to
> violent behavior. Come on, kids understand a game isn't real. I agree
> it's conservative censorship. It's parents job, not government, to
> police what their kids are playing.
>
> Tara

You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids behavior. But
that isn't always the case. When I was young puppy, if my mom told me not
to do something, I figured it was because she just didn't want me to have
fun. So I usually ran off and did it anyway. Like run across the street
without looking both ways. ;) 

IMO our environment (TV, printed material, school, home life, sports, ...)
does play a role in our up bringing. Well into my 30s I rarely discussed
any problems with my spouse. Why? Because the main characters on TV
didn't pause to discuss their problems. They usually whipped out a gun or
beat up the villain.

Today when my daughter and I watch TV, we'll discuss the commercials and
what they're trying to get the consumer to do. After watching the
Budweiser Clydesdales romp in the snow, I tell her that I'm in the mood for
some Budweiser. And two mins later, after watching the geeky guy get the
girls in the Miller ad, I'm ready for a Miller. ;) 

Plus we've got girls in middle school that think they're fat because they
look at all the skinny women on the front of the fashion magazines. These
poor girls barely eat and wind up tossing up most of the food.

Bottom line: kids are bombarded with stuff everyday. But how many
parents spend the time to help them?
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 4:54:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

OldDog wrote:

> Oh I agree. I don't think the media should be held accountable for
their
> products. I think the parents should be. But that wouldn't change
a lot
> of parenting in the world. IMO it seems the government has stepped
in to
> try and fill the void in order to protect our youth.

Then we have the "slippery slope" of how far does gobermint go? Imo,
the gov't has no right to censor anything -- that doesn't fall within
its purposes. Of course, the current administration and conservative
Christian groups want nothing but Ozzie and Harriet-type shows and CBS
fined a half-million dollars for a few seconds of a female breast on
TV. It's interesting to note that most of the complaints to the FCC
came from one organization (I believe it was media watch). They're now
trying to regulate what we can watch on cable and satellite, though the
consensus is it'll never pass.

> Gotta go. The Budweiser horses are back on and I feel the urge to
drink.

Funny, the clydesdales never affected me that way. :p 

Tara
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 8:13:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<taragem72@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1111016453.781852.207860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> OldDog wrote:
>
> > You would like to think that most parents monitor their kids
> behavior. But
> > that isn't always the case.
>
> <snippage>
>
> Then that's poor parenting. I understand the wrong ideas that media
> presents, especially the unrealistic ideal of how women should look.
> But to hold the media or game industry as scape goat is not the way to
> go about it.
>
> Tara

Oh I agree. I don't think the media should be held accountable for their
products. I think the parents should be. But that wouldn't change a lot
of parenting in the world. IMO it seems the government has stepped in to
try and fill the void in order to protect our youth.

As a parent, I do look at the ratings of DVDs when we go to rent them.
Also, I try to screen some of the books that my daughter wants to read.
While she's currently into the horror genre, I've told her to wait a few
years before reading Steven King novels.

As for video games, most of it pretty mild on the gore/language. In fact,
she's told me that she hears the f-word more on the school bus than she does
in anywhere else. d$mN them skool kids!

Plus, I try talk to her about what she's reading, seeing and hearing in the
media. But am I doing a good job of it? Only time will tell.

Gotta go. The Budweiser horses are back on and I feel the urge to drink.
;) 

OldDog
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:43:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Alfie [UK]" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9ksg319jj2fj3u96lqpgcgp6kr3m3bnc4v@4ax.com...

> >As several people have pointed out, there is an established rating
> >system. All that needs to be done is to take whatever steps are
> >necessary to formalise that and make it illegal to sell an "18" game to
> >an under 18. Same as for films.
> If Europe can say 'hold on, why are we debating creating a new EU-wide
> rating system when this here video and video game rating system is
> already there ?', I don't see why the US can't do the same. There must
> be some reasoning behind them ignoring the existing system, surely ?

Well remember that the US is not the EU, we are not Europeans. However in
this case it's just "look at me I'm trying to do something" politics,
instead of enforcing the laws already on the books they simply propose more
laws that do the same thing or create a parallel and redundant system. This
happens on a variety of issues.
March 18, 2005 5:46:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in
news:113j9cj4gh98j4e@news.supernews.com:

> Well remember that the US is not the EU, we are not Europeans. However
> in this case it's just "look at me I'm trying to do something"
> politics, instead of enforcing the laws already on the books they
> simply propose more laws that do the same thing or create a parallel
> and redundant system. This happens on a variety of issues.

Desperate nerds in high offices all over the world have been known to
enact the most disgusting pieces of legislation in order to win votes
(or, in places where they don't get to vote, to control unwanted forms
of mass behavior).
Environmental laws were not passed to protect our air and water...
they were passed to get votes. Seasonal anti-smut campaigns are not
conducted to rid our communities of moral rot...they are conducted to
give an aura of saintliness to the office-seekers who demand them. If a
few key phrases are thrown into any speech (as the expert advisors
explain to these various heads of state) votes will roll in, bucks will
roll in, and, most importantly, power will be maintained by the groovy
guy (or gal) who gets the most media coverage for his sleaze. Naturally,
his friends in various businesses will do okay too.

-- Frank V. Zappa, Prelude to _Joe's Garage_


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
March 18, 2005 5:51:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in
news:sP0_d.7668$8D.1591@tornado.texas.rr.com:

> IMO our environment (TV, printed material, school, home life, sports,
> ...) does play a role in our up bringing. Well into my 30s I rarely
> discussed any problems with my spouse. Why? Because the main
> characters on TV didn't pause to discuss their problems. They
> usually whipped out a gun or beat up the villain.
>
> Today when my daughter and I watch TV, we'll discuss the commercials
> and what they're trying to get the consumer to do. After watching
> the Budweiser Clydesdales romp in the snow, I tell her that I'm in the
> mood for some Budweiser. And two mins later, after watching the geeky
> guy get the girls in the Miller ad, I'm ready for a Miller. ;) 

Sorry to hear that you're so weak-willed -- but admitting you have a
problem *is* the first step in correcting it.


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
!