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IEMs: Shure PSM200 vs 400 v Sennheiser ew300iem-g2

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Anonymous
August 16, 2004 8:04:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Howdy--soliciting thoughts on wireless in-ear monitor systems.

We're a 3pc Rock/Blues bar band (2 of the 3 sing) and entertaining the
thought of wireless IEM's for myself (bassist/backing vox) and the
guitarist/leadvox. We don't tour, and play a mix of small festivals
and your small-mid weekend club stuff approx 70 dates a year.
Typically indoors, we run only vox, gtr, and just a little bass
through our PA.

We're to the point where we're interested in having individual mixes,
catalyzed by the need to replace two of our aging Yorkville monitor
cabinets, and wouldn't mind just doing away with the bulk of wedges
entirely and having a monitor mix that's consistent regardless of
stage acoustics.

Now, it's been a couple years since I looked at this when the
consensus appeared to be "Though shalt buy Shure for IEM's and forsake
all others," but I'm curious if this newer offering from Sennheiser is
worth its salt.

I have an Sennheiser EW172-G2 UHF diveristy bass wireless and couldn't
be happier with it from AF and RF performance perspectives. The
vocalist is currently investigating guitar wireless, and perhaps a
wireless headset as well, so frequency compatibility among our gear
will be an issue. As far as IEM mixing, we're probably looking at
doing 3-way mic splits with each of vox1/vox2/gtr/bass and both of us
having our own little 4ch mixer for our monitor mix since our FOH PA
has a single monitor send that we may use to give the drummer a wedge
that sits far from our vocal mics.

I'd welcome any thoughts on the relative merits of these 3 systems, or
if there's something else out there I should be considering.

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 4:43:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I can't comment on the Sennheiser . . . never had one.
But I've used both the PSM 200 and 400.

I found the 200 to be barely adequate for a rock band, although it
might work well for smaller groups. I then moved up to the 400 with
the E5 earphones, and at that point I was happy.

If you want individualized mixes, you might want to look at the A&H
MixWizard 16-channel. It's the least expensive, good quality mixer
that I've found with 6 aux outs. Most lower-priced mixers just have 4,
which is inadequate for a 5-piece group.

My band recently dissolved, so I'm selling my PA . . . in parts or
as a whole. The equipment is very new, and never been gigged with. If
you'd like to check it out, go to www.rogerwindsor.com/pa

I posted a for-sale ad here last week, and got lots of comments about
how my prices were too high. Yet, when I checked most of the stuff out
on the internet, my prices were very good. YMMV.
In any event, if you're shopping around you might want to check out my
stuff before I put it on eBay.


Roger Windsor


On 16 Aug 2004 16:04:25 -0500, bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

>
>Howdy--soliciting thoughts on wireless in-ear monitor systems.
>
>We're a 3pc Rock/Blues bar band (2 of the 3 sing) and entertaining the
>thought of wireless IEM's for myself (bassist/backing vox) and the
>guitarist/leadvox. We don't tour, and play a mix of small festivals
>and your small-mid weekend club stuff approx 70 dates a year.
>Typically indoors, we run only vox, gtr, and just a little bass
>through our PA.
>
>We're to the point where we're interested in having individual mixes,
>catalyzed by the need to replace two of our aging Yorkville monitor
>cabinets, and wouldn't mind just doing away with the bulk of wedges
>entirely and having a monitor mix that's consistent regardless of
>stage acoustics.
>
>Now, it's been a couple years since I looked at this when the
>consensus appeared to be "Though shalt buy Shure for IEM's and forsake
>all others," but I'm curious if this newer offering from Sennheiser is
>worth its salt.
>
>I have an Sennheiser EW172-G2 UHF diveristy bass wireless and couldn't
>be happier with it from AF and RF performance perspectives. The
>vocalist is currently investigating guitar wireless, and perhaps a
>wireless headset as well, so frequency compatibility among our gear
>will be an issue. As far as IEM mixing, we're probably looking at
>doing 3-way mic splits with each of vox1/vox2/gtr/bass and both of us
>having our own little 4ch mixer for our monitor mix since our FOH PA
>has a single monitor send that we may use to give the drummer a wedge
>that sits far from our vocal mics.
>
>I'd welcome any thoughts on the relative merits of these 3 systems, or
>if there's something else out there I should be considering.
>
>Best Regards,
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 4:43:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger Windsor <No_Spam--newsgroups@roger--No--Spam--windsor.com> writes:
> I found the 200 to be barely adequate for a rock band, although it
> might work well for smaller groups. I then moved up to the 400 with
> the E5 earphones, and at that point I was happy.

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the info. Can you say more about what you didn't like
about the 200? Do you feel most of the improvement you saw in the
upgrade was due to the much better headphones, or due to the unit
itself?

--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:35:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message news:<m0smam7q1y.fsf@ripco.com>...
> Howdy--soliciting thoughts on wireless in-ear monitor systems.
>
> We're a 3pc Rock/Blues bar band (2 of the 3 sing) and entertaining the
> thought of wireless IEM's for myself (bassist/backing vox) and the
> guitarist/leadvox. We don't tour, and play a mix of small festivals
> and your small-mid weekend club stuff approx 70 dates a year.
> Typically indoors, we run only vox, gtr, and just a little bass
> through our PA.

If you don't mind the cables, we use E-1s wired to a Rolls 6 channel
headphone amp. I just put an old BBE Sonic Maximizer in front of the
headphone amp and it improves the sound a bit. Very
inexpensive/practical setup compaired to wedges. Some of us have
custom earmolds as well. Takes some getting used to, but all the band
members like this arrangement. For a trio you could get a simple
Symetrix 4 channel headphone amp, I have one of those too. Rolls
makes a bunch of heaphone amp and volume controls too. Beats hell
out of lugging around wedges and power amps. :>)

DaveT
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 10:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

dthomas@continet.com (Deaf Mellon MESA) writes:
> bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message news:<m0smam7q1y.fsf@ripco.com>...
> > Howdy--soliciting thoughts on wireless in-ear monitor systems.
> >
> > We're a 3pc Rock/Blues bar band (2 of the 3 sing) and entertaining the
> > thought of wireless IEM's for myself (bassist/backing vox) and the
> > guitarist/leadvox. We don't tour, and play a mix of small festivals
> > and your small-mid weekend club stuff approx 70 dates a year.
> > Typically indoors, we run only vox, gtr, and just a little bass
> > through our PA.
>
> If you don't mind the cables, we use E-1s wired to a Rolls 6 channel
> headphone amp. I just put an old BBE Sonic Maximizer in front of the
> headphone amp and it improves the sound a bit. Very
> inexpensive/practical setup compaired to wedges. Some of us have
> custom earmolds as well. Takes some getting used to, but all the band
> members like this arrangement. For a trio you could get a simple
> Symetrix 4 channel headphone amp, I have one of those too. Rolls
> makes a bunch of heaphone amp and volume controls too. Beats hell
> out of lugging around wedges and power amps. :>)

Thanks for the info!

That sounds like a good solution for our drummer.

I'm currently wireless on the bass though, and would only go wireless
for IEM's. Our guitarist is looking go similarly. Our crowds seem to
enjoy extended guitar solos where our exceedingly fit lead man heads
off the stage to shake it wid da ladies.

Seems these Sennheiser units are semi-new? Is there a better forum
for IEM questions, or aren't a lot of folks using them? Or sick of
the question? :-)

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 10:28:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message news:<m0y8kdicbl.fsf@ripco.com>...
> dthomas@continet.com (Deaf Mellon MESA) writes:
> > bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message news:<m0smam7q1y.fsf@ripco.com>...
> Seems these Sennheiser units are semi-new? Is there a better forum
> for IEM questions, or aren't a lot of folks using them? Or sick of
> the question? :-)
>
> Best Regards,

Todd,
You'll more info over here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&group=alt.aud....

Deaf
Anonymous
August 18, 2004 7:29:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It seemed like I could never get the volume loud enough on the 200.
Also, the sound detail with the 400 was better, so it sounded better
musically and it was easier to distinguish between the instruments.

That's all I remember specifically . . . I only used them a few times,
so I can't say it was a very through test.
My main impression was that the 200 was barely adequate, but the 400
was great.
(I started out with some Nady's, but sent them back immediately. I
said to the salesman, "These are so bad they shouldn't be allowed even
to sell these things."

I never tried the 400 without the E5s, so I can't say how much of the
difference was due to the E5s.


Roger
------------------------------------

On 17 Aug 2004 10:06:16 -0500, bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

>Roger Windsor <No_Spam--newsgroups@roger--No--Spam--windsor.com> writes:
>> I found the 200 to be barely adequate for a rock band, although it
>> might work well for smaller groups. I then moved up to the 400 with
>> the E5 earphones, and at that point I was happy.
>
>Hi Roger,
>
>Thanks for the info. Can you say more about what you didn't like
>about the 200? Do you feel most of the improvement you saw in the
>upgrade was due to the much better headphones, or due to the unit
>itself?
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 12:31:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Deaf Mellon MESA" <dthomas@continet.com> wrote in message
news:6881d731.0408171728.2d8f4c07@posting.google.com...
> bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message
news:<m0y8kdicbl.fsf@ripco.com>...
> > dthomas@continet.com (Deaf Mellon MESA) writes:
> > > bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote in message
news:<m0smam7q1y.fsf@ripco.com>...
> > Seems these Sennheiser units are semi-new? Is there a better forum
> > for IEM questions, or aren't a lot of folks using them? Or sick of
> > the question? :-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
>
> Todd,
> You'll more info over here:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&group=alt.aud....
>
> Deaf

I use the Senn 300 and it works ok. I did change the earpieces. I have not
tried the shure though.

You should check out the single Rolls headphone amp for your drummer. Pm-1
or something, real cheap $ and he will have his own level control at the
kit.

I would check out a small comp limiter or at least kill switches. Feedback
in an IEM can be fatal to your hearing.

The bbe idea seems ok or a graph could help since none of the iem's have a
lot of low end. Just don't boost too much though, a subtle boost to even it
out.

Another neat trick is stereo iem's. Takes more resources though.

The senn 300 has a dual mono feature where you can control the mix of your
voice with the bal mix. Works good. One day I took my dual mono mix and
flipped it to stereo. That is vocal on one side and the bal mix on the
other. It seemed weird at first but now I love it. My guitar and voice don't
compete with each other so the overall level came down. And since I have a
stereo 15 band graph changes to the bal mix doesn't effect my voice and vice
versa.

Best to experiment to see what works in your situation. How that helps.

Joe L
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 2:56:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I use the Senn 300 and it works ok. I did change the earpieces. I have not
>tried the shure though.
>
>I would check out a small comp limiter or at least kill switches. Feedback
>in an IEM can be fatal to your hearing.

The Shure's have built-in limiters.


Roger
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 10:39:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger Windsor <No_Spam--newsgroups@roger--No--Spam--windsor.com>
wrote:

>
>>I use the Senn 300 and it works ok. I did change the earpieces. I have not
>>tried the shure though.
>>
>>I would check out a small comp limiter or at least kill switches. Feedback
>>in an IEM can be fatal to your hearing.
>
>The Shure's have built-in limiters.

All systems have.
The big downfall is that you can´t set the threshold, and the
efficiency of different earbuds varies quite a bit.

regards
--
Hubert Barth
Cologne/Germany
http://www.bigbands.de
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 10:39:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Hubert Barth" <hubert.barth@netcologne.de> wrote in message
news:cg2kvh$5fg$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de...
> Roger Windsor <No_Spam--newsgroups@roger--No--Spam--windsor.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >>I use the Senn 300 and it works ok. I did change the earpieces. I have
not
> >>tried the shure though.
> >>
> >>I would check out a small comp limiter or at least kill switches.
Feedback
> >>in an IEM can be fatal to your hearing.
> >
> >The Shure's have built-in limiters.
>
> All systems have.
> The big downfall is that you can´t set the threshold, and the
> efficiency of different earbuds varies quite a bit.
>
> regards
> --
> Hubert Barth
> Cologne/Germany
> http://www.bigbands.de

I find with the senn 300's that the internal limiter is useless. It cuts the
level too much with the earpieces that I use. I'd have to drive the input
way to much and then there's no headroom. Even then it still quiet.

Joe L
!