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Spector 'backs' Steam...

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March 16, 2005 1:30:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

....and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
distribution:

He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business". The
reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which gives
publishers control over all steps of the game development process. Spector
compared the current situation to early days of the American film industry
when large studios controlled all aspects of development, distribution, and
marketing movies. Spector suggested that developers need to break this cycle
by finding new distribution methods similar to what Valve accomplished by
selling Half-Life 2 through Steam.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
--
Paladin

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply:
sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk

More about : spector backs steam

Anonymous
March 16, 2005 3:31:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Paladin wrote:

> Spector suggested that developers need to break this cycle by finding
> new distribution methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling

But these distribution methods leave all people without broadband access
in the cold, every other problem regarding Steam ignored. Another way to
get more control would be something like GOD (Gathering of Developers),
who, as I understand it, planned to distribute their games themselves.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:48:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Paladin wrote:
> ...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
> distribution:
>
> He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
> The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
> gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
> process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
> American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
> development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
> that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
> methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
> through Steam.
>
> http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1




I like Steam! I like the automatic updating.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
> ...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
> distribution:
>
> He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
> The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
> gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
> process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
> American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
> development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
> that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
> methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
> through Steam.
> http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1

personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
how the game should be made.

--
Time may be a great healer, but it's also a lousy beautician.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me
March 17, 2005 12:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
>agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
>the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
>how the game should be made.

I don't think you are in the minority with that view.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <39qh91F655kdvU1@individual.net>, ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au
(Highlandish) wrote:

> I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the
> lions share and dictating how the game should be made

Agree 100%. Steam isn't perfect, but it offers a good chance for
developers to take a higher percentage of a diminishing market (thanks to
the rise & rise of console gaming).

Actually Steam is one of the better schemes. If you reformat the HD all
you need is your account details, a bit of DLing, and you're back in
business. No faffing about with authorisation codes & limited numbers of
reactivations like other schemes which are becoming increasingly common...
sadly. That kind of thing *really* bugs me.

The only significant problem with Steam and online distribution in general
is for people stuck with modem only connections. But broadband digital
distribution will be how we get pretty much everything within ten years,
I'm sure; movies, TV, games, the lot. We'd better get used to it... even
Señor sayNOtocapitals&fullstops.

Andrew McP
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
>agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
>the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
>how the game should be made.

You don't need Steam for that. Look for e.g. Stardock Central. Or how
the original Doom was sold as shareware.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
> agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
> the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
> how the game should be made.
>

The shareware model of distribution worked wonders for id Software back
in the days of Doom and Quake. More money went directly to the
developers, and gamers got to sell their games if they wanted to.
Matrix Games* offers both direct downloads and shipments of physical
goods which allows gamers to do whatever they please with it. Steam
would be nice if it allowed those who bought Half-Life 2 retail to
resell/trade their game and if they could play the game without having
to first authenticate their copy with Valve. I still play Half-Life 1
from time-to-time seven years after its initial release. Hopefully
Valve will still be around seven years from now or else gamers will be
out of luck should they have a desire to play through HL2 again. It'd
be an improvement for the PC games industry if every developer received
a larger cut for each copy of their game sold, but some of the
sacrifices Valve asks of their customers shouldn't have to be made.


* http://www.matrixgames.com/

--
best regards, mat
np: The Bangs - Leave It Behind

www.pdxshows.net
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
> 1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
>
>>...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
>>distribution:
>>
>>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
>>The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
>>gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
>>process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
>>American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
>>development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
>>that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
>>methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
>>through Steam.
>>http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
>
>
> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
> agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
> the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
> how the game should be made.
>
Chances are you are in the majority...the minority are the few who are
moaning about it.

--
Byron Hinson
My Photography
http://www.designerdream.co.uk/photography
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:49:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Andrew wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but
>>I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority
>>of the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and
>>dictating how the game should be made.
>
> I don't think you are in the minority with that view.

Well, it never gave me any problems either. I'd rather not have to use it,
but I'm prepared to at the minute. There are sensible criticisms of Steam,
half-articulated among a blizzard of misunderstanding and paranoia by
people like SayNoToSteam.

I'd prefer it if Valve's unenforceable rules considering selling your
licence for HL2 or whatever didn't exist. Not that they would stop me for a
second.

You should be able to activate it by phone.

You should be able to apply patches to the Steam platform and games, easily,
via normal EXE files so that they could be put on cover CD's etc.

You effectively need broadband. When Strike Commander was released in the
early 90s everyone was bitching because you needed 4MB RAM and a 386 or
whatever. The envelope has to be pushed at some point. It's funny how
people don't see that this hurts Valve as much as it does the gamer insofar
as it limits the user base.
March 17, 2005 12:49:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Byron Hinson" <byron@activewin.com> wrote in message
news:JdZZd.1915$uM.1865@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Highlandish wrote:
>> Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
>> 1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
>>
>>>...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
>>>distribution:
>>>
>>>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
>>>The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
>>>gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
>>>process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
>>>American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
>>>development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
>>>that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
>>>methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
>>>through Steam.
>>>http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
>>
>>
>> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority,
>> but I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
>> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions
>> share and dictating how the game should be made.
>>
> Chances are you are in the majority...the minority are the few who are
> moaning about it.
>
> --
> Byron Hinson
> My Photography
> http://www.designerdream.co.uk/photography

Which is why the problems with Steam have been mentioned in every review I
have seen - even the fanbois ones - and even made it to the front page of
BBC news.

It is a good idea, badly implemented. Fair comment as these guys are
blazing the trail here - don't, however, mix up criticism with "moaning".
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 1:03:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business". The
>reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which gives
>publishers control over all steps of the game development process.

I think he has some very valid points. I don't like Steam, but only
because of it's use as an aggresive anti-piracy tool (which naturally
enough breaks the game for some legitimate customers).
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:18:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Andrew MacPherson"<andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com>
in memo.20050316113035.1240C@address_disguised.address_disguised
> In article <39qh91F655kdvU1@individual.net>,
> ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au (Highlandish) wrote:
>
>> I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
>> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the
>> lions share and dictating how the game should be made
>
> Agree 100%. Steam isn't perfect, but it offers a good chance for
> developers to take a higher percentage of a diminishing market
> (thanks to the rise & rise of console gaming).
>
> Actually Steam is one of the better schemes. If you reformat the HD
> all you need is your account details, a bit of DLing, and you're back
> in business. No faffing about with authorisation codes & limited
> numbers of reactivations like other schemes which are becoming
> increasingly common... sadly. That kind of thing *really* bugs me.
>
> The only significant problem with Steam and online distribution in
> general is for people stuck with modem only connections. But
> broadband digital distribution will be how we get pretty much
> everything within ten years, I'm sure; movies, TV, games, the lot.
> We'd better get used to it... even Señor sayNOtocapitals&fullstops.
>
> Andrew McP

I am on dialup, it only took me 3 weeks to get all the files, 2 days before
world wide activation, and 45 mins to activate. I wasn't disappointed.

--
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill
(1874-1965)

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:18:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <39qmhkF61amhaU1@individual.net>, ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au
(Highlandish) wrote:

> I am on dialup, it only took me 3 weeks to get all the files

Ouch! But it proves that anything's possible if you're patient enough.
Personally I was more impressed by Steam than HL2. Maybe I should've
downloaded it slower? ;-)

Andrew McP
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:26:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Spector
>compared the current situation to early days of the American film industry
>when large studios controlled all aspects of development, distribution, and
>marketing movies.
Um, they don't now?
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 7:21:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> and yes a 56k modem will have to take at least 10 uninterrupted days
running
> at full speed to download the 4000000000 bytes of data hl2 requires
>
> a dial-up user should have to pay at least 300 dollars or more for
hl2!
> pay 300 dollars or more and wait at least 3 weeks or more to play
hl2!
> FOR GOD SAKE WILL ANYONE DENY THIS IS A TOTAL AND COMPLETE
OUTRAGE!!!!!

Yeah, you're right. I would have gone out and bought the disc rather
than download the whole game. Then Steam just has to download the
updates.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 9:55:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "riku"<riku@invalid.none.com> in
609g311f6anptdlihfao9mi2s60akqi6r0@4ax.com
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a
>>minority, but I agree that a method must be created to give the
>>developer the majority of the income, rather than the distributor
>>taking the lions share and dictating how the game should be made.
>
> You don't need Steam for that. Look for e.g. Stardock Central. Or how
> the original Doom was sold as shareware.

I had to travel to the capital city to find a game shop to buy the doom1
shareware floppy for $5. not that convenient. and that $5 was only for the
home-duplicated floppy containing the shareware version, not the full
version. I copied my mates pirated Doom1 downloaded the full-pirate doom2
from a BBS. did iD get any of my money? so much for their distribution
system.

Steam has pretty much fixed that problem by not allowing anything to run or
patch that isn't their own original software. sure you can get a pirated
version of HL2, but all you can do is play an unpatched single player game
(for most that is enough I admit) but HL2 has to be one of the most popular
games that is least pirated, because of Steam.

I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly
implemented the system for limited connection users. they should send out
the basic HL2-only DVD to all Steam purchasers so at least they always have
the game, the rest can be downloaded off their servers. but I applaud
content authentication.

I haven't tried Star Dock Central, it looks OK but it seems like its
optional if you want updates from them personally. it doesn't look enforced
and I can assume you can source your updates elsewhere without a SDC
installation.

--
I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and
give the wrong answers. - A Bit of Fry and Laurie

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me
March 17, 2005 9:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:55:16 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>I had to travel to the capital city to find a game shop to buy the doom1
>shareware floppy for $5. not that convenient. and that $5 was only for the
>home-duplicated floppy containing the shareware version, not the full
>version. I copied my mates pirated Doom1 downloaded the full-pirate doom2
>from a BBS. did iD get any of my money? so much for their distribution
>system.

Doom was very popular where I worked, but I don't know anyone who
bought a copy for the PC. As I didn't have, and at the time didn't
want, a gaming spec PC, I only got to play Doom when it was released
for my Atari Jaguar and later the excellent Playstation version. I
guess iD did okay financially from it, but the piracy then was
probably worse than now.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:38:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:39rh97F636birU1@individual.net...

> Steam has pretty much fixed that problem by not allowing anything to run
or
> patch that isn't their own original software. sure you can get a pirated
> version of HL2, but all you can do is play an unpatched single player game
> (for most that is enough I admit) but HL2 has to be one of the most
popular
> games that is least pirated, because of Steam.

Where do you get the idea that the pirated version doesn't get updates?
Nearly every HL2 update has been released by the Steam emulator folks, you
can even apply them to your store bought copy if you use the Steam emulator.

> I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly
> implemented the system for limited connection users. they should send out
> the basic HL2-only DVD to all Steam purchasers so at least they always
have
> the game, the rest can be downloaded off their servers. but I applaud
> content authentication.

Why do you "applaud" content authentication? It's unnecessary and adds
nothing but hassle to the legit buyer. Somebody you pays money for a game
doesn't "need" the game company to give him "permission" to *run* the game.

Steam, as it is currently implemented, is intrustive, unnecessary and
illegitimate.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:22:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, "Highlandish" wrote:

> I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly

no you're not a steam fanboy you are a TOTAL MORON!
YOU'RE SO STUPID! YOU WAIT AND PAY FOR 3 WEEKS OF DOWNLOADS TO PLAY HL2
OVERALL COSTS WAS FOR SURE OVER 300 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE DAMN PC GAMES
AND YOU DEFEND THE SYSTEM?????
WHAT KIND OF MASOCHISTIC RETARD ARE YOU?????

AND BTW PIRATE, DOOM IS SOLD IN EVERY RETAIL STORE AROUND THE WORLD SO
BUY IT IMMEDIATLY YOU THIEF CAUSE YOU HAVEN'T ANY EXCUSE TO STEAL IT!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:22:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Vader des Vaderlands wrote:

<snip>

> be an improvement for the PC games industry if every developer received
> a larger cut for each copy of their game sold, but some of the
> sacrifices Valve asks of their customers shouldn't have to be made.

very well said!
a true wise voice in this group!
thanks a million!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 2:22:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Werner Spahl wrote:

> But these distribution methods leave all people without broadband access
> in the cold, every other problem regarding Steam ignored. Another way to
> get more control would be something like GOD (Gathering of Developers),
> who, as I understand it, planned to distribute their games themselves.

exactly! right on the important issue!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 9:54:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:06 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>id worked hard and made the best pc games ever created!
>and yes they fortunately received reward but they deserved much more!
>that's why next april 8th all of us will buy RESURECTION OF EVIL and
>you too old consolist pretending to be a pc gamer! YOU TOO BUY IT!
>

"All of us?" "Shouldn't you be saying all of YOU?"

You've admitted plenty of times that you machine's not fast enough to
run current games. Including Doom3.
On April 8th YOU won't be buying anything.
Except maybe 5 year old games from the budget bin.


Remove nospam_ to reply by email

Jeff H........


Lies, All lies. Don't believe a word Difool/sayNO says.
He fears the truth!
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 2:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "sayNO2steam"<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> in
rmmi31prn0ck6ebco55mmjt86fvst390e0@4ax.com
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, "Highlandish" wrote:
>
> you say steam never gave you any problems

tosser, I do admit that steam subscribers should also receive a DVD from
valve as well as the dl choice. my dialup connection is a flat rate 23.90 a
month, and I used an ATI free game voucher to activate the game, but I was
hardly inconvenienced in ay way.

--
Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 5:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> On 17 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:
>
> > Yeah, you're right. I would have gone out and bought the disc
rather
> > than download the whole game. Then Steam just has to download the
> > updates.
>
> again wrong wrong wrong!
> man you always miss!
> the steam updates for half-life 2 are growing each week!

I wasn't talking about the updates. I was talking about downloading the
whole game. Given the choice between downloading the whole game over
three weeks, or installing it off disk I would do the latter.


> the last time i read about it, took ONE full hour for a high speed
> broadband connection to update it and its mandatory, you must do it
> so if broadband takes ONE full hour, dial-up will take TWENTY hours
> almost a FULL DAY!
> do you find spending! waiting! and wasting money on download for a
> FULL DAY only to update a damn single pc game you bough reasonable?
> OH MY GOD IS THE WORLD GONE CRAZY!!!!
> THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!
> SPENDING A FULL DAY ONLY TO UPDATE A DAMN SINGLE PC GAME!!!!!

Would the updates be any quicker if Steam weren't there? I don't think
Steam slows your internet connection.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 5:40:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:
>
> yes i don't have a system for resurrection of evil neither i have for
> riddick but i have lots of pc games like that on my to buy list cause
> i will upgrade my machine and will still be around to be able to play
> them! no need to play every single pc game you just bought

If you can't play it now, why not wait until after you've upgraded your
PC and buy it then?

By then, there'll be some reviews so you will know if it's even worth
the money, there may be patches to fix any problems, and the price may
be reduced.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 8:14:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>
> > Would the updates be any quicker if Steam weren't there? I don't
think
> > Steam slows your internet connection.
>
> Not at home, but I guess that there are a lot people like myself, who
> download patches at the University or get them from a friend who has
a
> broadband connection. Nothing like this will work easily with
Steam...

Good point. Perhaps a better solution for Steam v2 would be to keep
auto-updating but to also have the patches downloadable as separate exe
files. The same as Windows Update.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 1:00:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 17 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:

> Yeah, you're right. I would have gone out and bought the disc rather
> than download the whole game. Then Steam just has to download the
> updates.

again wrong wrong wrong!
man you always miss!
the steam updates for half-life 2 are growing each week!
the last time i read about it, took ONE full hour for a high speed
broadband connection to update it and its mandatory, you must do it
so if broadband takes ONE full hour, dial-up will take TWENTY hours
almost a FULL DAY!
do you find spending! waiting! and wasting money on download for a
FULL DAY only to update a damn single pc game you bough reasonable?
OH MY GOD IS THE WORLD GONE CRAZY!!!!
THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!
SPENDING A FULL DAY ONLY TO UPDATE A DAMN SINGLE PC GAME!!!!!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 1:00:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:

yes i don't have a system for resurrection of evil neither i have for
riddick but i have lots of pc games like that on my to buy list cause
i will upgrade my machine and will still be around to be able to play
them! no need to play every single pc game you just bought

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
March 18, 2005 2:01:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

> again wrong wrong wrong!
> man you always miss!
> the steam updates for half-life 2 are growing each week!
> the last time i read about it, took ONE full hour for a high speed
> broadband connection to update it and its mandatory, you must do it
> so if broadband takes ONE full hour, dial-up will take TWENTY hours
> almost a FULL DAY!
> do you find spending! waiting! and wasting money on download for a
> FULL DAY only to update a damn single pc game you bough reasonable?

I doubt your sums are correct but I cant be arsed to check them for you
but let's presume they are. Yes I would think that not just reasonable
but normal.

Forget HL2 - what do you say we take Far Cry as an example? The only
ways of getting patches for that of course (as with any other game) is
to download them off the internet taking the same amount of time (for
the same size patch) or waiting for them to become available on a gaming
magazine (presuming of course that the game is popular enough for the
mag to carry them).

Due to the way gaming mags are printed you might wait a couple of months
for that patch. PC Gamer arrived in the post yesterday - on that is Far
Cry 1.3. Back in January 1.31 came out. Two months later and we are
still on a previous patch version. As an alleged PC gamer do *you*
honestly think that is reasonable? I don't.

Magazine patches are of no use to me - a couple of months after the game
is out I'd have finished playing and be onto the next game. With my
broadband - this 74MB patch took 11mins to download. If I still had my
dial up connection I'd have left it downloading overnight. IMHO without
a good net connection you cannot play the latest games with all the
latest bug-fixes. Whether that is a Steam game or any other.




--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
March 18, 2005 2:06:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

> there are lots of more... but these are enough for you to buy doom3

....but not enough for you to buy it

> never ever! EVER NEVER!
> DOOM ALWAYS A PC DOS GAME! ALWAYS AND FOREVER!

DOS is dead. (Groundbreaking as it was) so is the original Doom. ID
updated it and called it Doom3.




--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 3:34:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Chadwick wrote:

> Would the updates be any quicker if Steam weren't there? I don't think
> Steam slows your internet connection.

Not at home, but I guess that there are a lot people like myself, who
download patches at the University or get them from a friend who has a
broadband connection. Nothing like this will work easily with Steam...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 7:42:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:797l31hm5dfvtl8fr3s6tsjqckkgvjo3sd@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:
>
> yes i don't have a system for resurrection of evil neither i have for
> riddick but i have lots of pc games like that on my to buy list cause
> i will upgrade my machine and will still be around to be able to play
> them! no need to play every single pc game you just bought
>
> --
>

But you said in the past a "true" PC Gamer would buy them anyay, the fact
you can't play them right now is irrelevent, in fact you at one point
suggested buying multiple copies to better support the retail chain. If you
wait till you upgrade then you aren't following your own guide to being a
true PC Gamer as they won't be full price when you buy them.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:19:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>marketing movies. Spector suggested that developers need to break this cycle
>by finding new distribution methods similar to what Valve accomplished by
>selling Half-Life 2 through Steam.

Or, like Matrix Games, become developer and publisher rolled into
one.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:36:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:06 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> for my Atari Jaguar and later the excellent Playstation version. I
>
>so after all you are a consolist
>it figures... a consolist... almost doesn't buy pc games... overall
>value to this group... = ZERO

He may be more like me, and far, far less like you; he might have
the money to buy both PC and console games.

What is your problem with console games anyway, last time you opened
your yap on the subject you were bitching about how console ports were
BAD for pc gaming.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:38:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:42:05 -0000, "Les Steel" <a@aolnot.com> wrote:

>
>"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:797l31hm5dfvtl8fr3s6tsjqckkgvjo3sd@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:
>>
>> yes i don't have a system for resurrection of evil neither i have for
>> riddick but i have lots of pc games like that on my to buy list cause
>> i will upgrade my machine and will still be around to be able to play
>> them! no need to play every single pc game you just bought
>>
>> --
>>
>
>But you said in the past a "true" PC Gamer would buy them anyay, the fact
>you can't play them right now is irrelevent, in fact you at one point
>suggested buying multiple copies to better support the retail chain.

To be fair, I'm the one who jokingly suggested that he should say
that.

But I'm glad to know that I sounded enough like him that you thought
it was him! <grin>

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:52:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:02 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, "Highlandish" wrote:
>
>> I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly
>
>no you're not a steam fanboy you are a TOTAL MORON!
>YOU'RE SO STUPID! YOU WAIT AND PAY FOR 3 WEEKS OF DOWNLOADS TO PLAY HL2

3 weeks and he still got it 2 days faster than going to the store
and buying it.

>OVERALL COSTS WAS FOR SURE OVER 300 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE DAMN PC GAMES

We don't pay per minute for local calls in the United States, boy.
Using 1 second of local calling in a month costs me exactly the same
as 744 hours of local calling (31 day month, of course).

>AND YOU DEFEND THE SYSTEM?????

He got it 2 days before your precious "retail channel" would have
sold it to him and he didn't pay anything extra for it.

>WHAT KIND OF MASOCHISTIC RETARD ARE YOU?????

You tell me, what kind of mashochistic retard are you?

>AND BTW PIRATE, DOOM IS SOLD IN EVERY RETAIL STORE AROUND THE WORLD SO

You're going to have to prove that. I'm sure that you can't show me
that all the retail stores in Kenya are carrying Doom 3.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:53:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:18:43 -0800, Vader des Vaderlands
<vader@vaderlands.nl> wrote:

>Highlandish wrote:
>> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
>> agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
>> the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
>> how the game should be made.
>>
>
>The shareware model of distribution worked wonders for id Software back
>in the days of Doom and Quake. More money went directly to the
>developers, and gamers got to sell their games if they wanted to.
>Matrix Games* offers both direct downloads and shipments of physical
>goods which allows gamers to do whatever they please with it.

I like the option to get it shipped, they usually allow you to
direct download it while you wait for it to arrive, how's that for
service. :) 

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:54:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:10 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Vader des Vaderlands wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> be an improvement for the PC games industry if every developer received
>> a larger cut for each copy of their game sold, but some of the
>> sacrifices Valve asks of their customers shouldn't have to be made.
>
>very well said!
>a true wise voice in this group!
>thanks a million!

Wow, apparently he didn't read the part he snipped or he'd realize
that he just approved of a message supporting direct download of pc
games.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:56:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Werner Spahl wrote:
>
>> But these distribution methods leave all people without broadband access
>> in the cold, every other problem regarding Steam ignored. Another way to
>> get more control would be something like GOD (Gathering of Developers),
>> who, as I understand it, planned to distribute their games themselves.
>
>exactly! right on the important issue!

How is that exactly right? If they distribute themselves, they cut
out the retail channel.

Are you now against showing your support for the retail channel? A
TRUE pc gamer, which you are not, would never say such a thing.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:38:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Johnny Bravo" <baawa_knight@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e1fm31hdkud0eoim3ajqd2tg61l4uaqrdb@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:42:05 -0000, "Les Steel" <a@aolnot.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:797l31hm5dfvtl8fr3s6tsjqckkgvjo3sd@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Jeff Holinski wrote:
>>>
>>> yes i don't have a system for resurrection of evil neither i have for
>>> riddick but i have lots of pc games like that on my to buy list cause
>>> i will upgrade my machine and will still be around to be able to play
>>> them! no need to play every single pc game you just bought
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>But you said in the past a "true" PC Gamer would buy them anyay, the fact
>>you can't play them right now is irrelevent, in fact you at one point
>>suggested buying multiple copies to better support the retail chain.
>
> To be fair, I'm the one who jokingly suggested that he should say
> that.
>
> But I'm glad to know that I sounded enough like him that you thought
> it was him! <grin>
>
> --
>

lol

I thought he agreed with you. He spouts so much shite even piss takes of him
sound legitimate. Therefore he will neve be taken seriously. If he ever was
O_o
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 8:14:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

drocket wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
> <sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Spector
>>compared the current situation to early days of the American film industry
>>when large studios controlled all aspects of development, distribution, and
>>marketing movies.
>
> Um, they don't now?
>
No, they don't. Back before the industry deregulation in the 1950s,
studios owned the theater chains as well. This was deemed a violation of
antitrust laws, and the studios had to divest in the 50's.

Nowadays, the studios, the financing companies, distribution companies,
theater chains, and even separate functions of productions are handled
by different companies. For example, Miramax is not a "studio," in the
sense that they own big warehouse-shaped buildings for sets. They
arrange for financing, staffing, personnel, salaries, rights management,
promotion, and the like.

This makes for a lot of complicated deal-making. And in another sense,
media ownership is pretty concentrated _in general_, so a corporation
like Sony or New Corporation (Fox) may own substantial interests in many
subsidiary companies that handle these tasks. So it's gone both ways.
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:20:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Shawk wrote:

> Forget HL2 - what do you say we take Far Cry as an example? The only

i can get far cry patches with total freedom and choice of means
if i want i can download it from the many sites which have it available
with steam you only have ONE site available!
if i want i can buy a game magazine and have the patch in a cd
with steam you cannot have patches in any cd game magazines!
if i want i can get my patch from a friend which has it from a game
magazine or from a net download
with steam you cannot have patches given to you by any friends at all!

PATCHES IN STEAM = NO FREEDOM!
PATCHES IN STEAM = NO CHOICE!
PATCHES IN STEAM = PRODUCT OF A GREEDY MONOPOLISTIC DICTATOR CALLED VALVE!

> Due to the way gaming mags are printed you might wait a couple of months
> for that patch. PC Gamer arrived in the post yesterday - on that is Far

doesn't anybody talk about friends anymore?
are you so miserable you don't have a friend which also is a fellow gamer
and also owns and plays farcry?
i have friends! and they are also pc gamers! and they will have no problem
giving to me the patches they have downloaded!
they are not greedy like valve!
so no i will not need to wait months or pay for game magazines to get a
patch!

> a good net connection you cannot play the latest games with all the
> latest bug-fixes. Whether that is a Steam game or any other.

lies! lies! lies!
YOU DON'T NEED INTERNET CONNECTION TO INSTALL PLAY AND PATCH PC GAMES!

you talking about steam and patches is very important...
patches in steam is one of the reason why its so wrong
but lets talk about the TRUTH with patches
first patches are important but only if the game crashs on your pc!
most of the pc games i play i never patch them at all!
second patches must always be available in single files which can be
easily distributed in a variety of ways not only game magazines but
fellow pc gamers themselves distribution among friends!
this is called freedom!
this is called choice!
you have the freedom to play the version you want! and lets not lie
many of us play and finish most of our pc games without any problems at
all with no need to patch and using the first reliable version 1.0!
so you have freedom and choice to choose what version to play
and them you have freedom to exchange and distribute and give to your
own friends file patches cause there is no need for everyone to download
and buy game magazines to get patches

steam takes away the freedom for you too chose what version to run and
most of the time you don't need anything else other than the first 1.0
version!
so why expending lots of money downloading the steam based patches cause
lets not forget the first time you install steam you have no choice and
you must patch the game completely! THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE AND A VIOLENCE
TO THE PC GAMER!
second thing is you not being able to have the patch in a single file
that can be easily distributed either in a game magazine or given to you
by a friend... but greedy monopolistic valve makes you always have to
connect and waste lots of time and money doing superfluous patching, so
they can have absolute control and domination over us!
THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE AND A VIOLENCE TO THE PC GAMES!

STEAM IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG!
FIGHT STEAM!
FIGHT VALVE!
protect your FREEDOM!
protect your CHOICE!
protect your OWN CONSUMER RIGHTS!
STEAM NEVER!
NEVER!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:20:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 18 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:

> If you can't play it now, why not wait until after you've upgraded your
> PC and buy it then?

i don't recommend doing that cause unfortunately the pc game market suffers
from very poor re-releasing of older titles

unfortunately the pc game market and pc game publishers have a very poor
re-releasing policy of older titles and they stop manufacturing older
titles when i bet many young pc gamers would enjoy very much old titles
so i don't recommend to any pc gamer having a wait attitude when buying
pc games cause some of them will disappear completely from the market

> By then, there'll be some reviews so you will know if it's even worth

i don't need any kind of reviews! resurrection of evil is a must buy!

> the money, there may be patches to fix any problems, and the price may
> be reduced.

yes with resurrection of evil you are right, there will be for sure a
doom 3 gold edition which will include the original game patched and
the expansion pack and all in a good packaging with a low price, but
like i've been defending if you can afford it please buy pc games at
the release with full price so we can put pc games again in the top!

lets make pc games again the best gaming platform!
support pc games!
fight piracy!
reward developers and publishers and retail stores which work hard to
give you the best entertainment in the world!
BUY PC GAMES!
PC GAMES ARE THE BEST!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:21:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, "Les Steel" wrote:

first i will buy resurrection of evil way before i have a proper machine
to run it!
second what i told is if i was rich, i would buy more than one copy but
only if i could afford it! and in this case i would:
.. buy all pc games released
.. for those pc games i enjoy playing, i would buy a second copy for my
collection so i had one copy for playing and another kept away so there
would be no risk of damaging cause of use or handling
.. and with my favorite pc games i would buy a third one which i would
kept sealed and unopened for any future necessity

and like i told before, if i was rich i would buy valve and make it
destroy steam immediately and give steam-free half-life 2 versions to
all their costumers who complaint about steam

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:21:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 18 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:

> Do you really buy any game that meets the above criteria? Or do you
> just buy FPS games that you think you'll enjoy?

yes mostly fps and with other elements from other types of games like
driving and flying etc

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:21:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Shawk wrote:

> ...but not enough for you to buy it

this is not a criticism... but... id is a little bit expensive for my
budget, and before people flame me let me admit the problem is mine!

> DOS is dead. (Groundbreaking as it was) so is the original Doom. ID

doom was ground breaking not dos!

i don't know if i should say this or not, but i don't like the win32
version of doom... it wasn't done properly... and it makes me sad

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:21:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Johnny Bravo wrote:

gathering of developers publishes great quality pc games all in a
physical packaging box and sold in retail!
god sells its pc games in retail!
i have some pc games by god bought in retail!
so again wrong and manipulative lies coming from you!

btw i have in my too buy list a pc game from them but i will not
tell you cause you will for sure try to put it down and say lies
about it having all kinds of horrible cd copy protection when it
hasn't!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
March 19, 2005 6:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Shawk wrote:
>
>
>>...but not enough for you to buy it
>
>
> this is not a criticism... but... id is a little bit expensive for my
> budget, and before people flame me let me admit the problem is mine!
>
>
>>DOS is dead. (Groundbreaking as it was) so is the original Doom. ID
>
>
> doom was ground breaking not dos!

What I said

>
> i don't know if i should say this or not, but i don't like the win32
> version of doom... it wasn't done properly... and it makes me sad
>
> --
> post made in a steam-free computer
> i said "NO" to valve and steam
>
> against steam campaign
> http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/
>
> steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
> http://www.steamwatch.org/
>
> please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
> http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html


--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 6:35:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:21:06 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, "Les Steel" wrote:
>
>first i will buy resurrection of evil way before i have a proper machine
>to run it!

Just like Psychotoxic?

Oh, you missed the release of Psychotoxic by more than half a year.

>second what i told is if i was rich, i would buy more than one copy but

You also told us that if you were rich you would have an anti-Steam
website.

Websites are free, apparently free is too "rich" for you.

--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
!