Spector 'backs' Steam...

[paladin]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

....and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
distribution:

He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business". The
reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which gives
publishers control over all steps of the game development process. Spector
compared the current situation to early days of the American film industry
when large studios controlled all aspects of development, distribution, and
marketing movies. Spector suggested that developers need to break this cycle
by finding new distribution methods similar to what Valve accomplished by
selling Half-Life 2 through Steam.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
--
Paladin

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply:
sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Paladin wrote:

> Spector suggested that developers need to break this cycle by finding
> new distribution methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling

But these distribution methods leave all people without broadband access
in the cold, every other problem regarding Steam ignored. Another way to
get more control would be something like GOD (Gathering of Developers),
who, as I understand it, planned to distribute their games themselves.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Paladin wrote:
> ...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
> distribution:
>
> He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
> The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
> gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
> process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
> American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
> development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
> that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
> methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
> through Steam.
>
> http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1




I like Steam! I like the automatic updating.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
> ...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
> distribution:
>
> He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
> The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
> gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
> process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
> American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
> development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
> that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
> methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
> through Steam.
> http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1

personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
how the game should be made.

--
Time may be a great healer, but it's also a lousy beautician.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Andrew]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
>agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
>the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
>how the game should be made.

I don't think you are in the minority with that view.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <39qh91F655kdvU1@individual.net>, ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au
(Highlandish) wrote:

> I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the
> lions share and dictating how the game should be made

Agree 100%. Steam isn't perfect, but it offers a good chance for
developers to take a higher percentage of a diminishing market (thanks to
the rise & rise of console gaming).

Actually Steam is one of the better schemes. If you reformat the HD all
you need is your account details, a bit of DLing, and you're back in
business. No faffing about with authorisation codes & limited numbers of
reactivations like other schemes which are becoming increasingly common...
sadly. That kind of thing *really* bugs me.

The only significant problem with Steam and online distribution in general
is for people stuck with modem only connections. But broadband digital
distribution will be how we get pretty much everything within ten years,
I'm sure; movies, TV, games, the lot. We'd better get used to it... even
Señor sayNOtocapitals&fullstops.

Andrew McP

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
>agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
>the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
>how the game should be made.

You don't need Steam for that. Look for e.g. Stardock Central. Or how
the original Doom was sold as shareware.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
> agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
> the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
> how the game should be made.
>

The shareware model of distribution worked wonders for id Software back
in the days of Doom and Quake. More money went directly to the
developers, and gamers got to sell their games if they wanted to.
Matrix Games* offers both direct downloads and shipments of physical
goods which allows gamers to do whatever they please with it. Steam
would be nice if it allowed those who bought Half-Life 2 retail to
resell/trade their game and if they could play the game without having
to first authenticate their copy with Valve. I still play Half-Life 1
from time-to-time seven years after its initial release. Hopefully
Valve will still be around seven years from now or else gamers will be
out of luck should they have a desire to play through HL2 again. It'd
be an improvement for the PC games industry if every developer received
a larger cut for each copy of their game sold, but some of the
sacrifices Valve asks of their customers shouldn't have to be made.


* http://www.matrixgames.com/

--
best regards, mat
np: The Bangs - Leave It Behind

www.pdxshows.net

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
> 1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
>
>>...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
>>distribution:
>>
>>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
>>The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
>>gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
>>process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
>>American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
>>development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
>>that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
>>methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
>>through Steam.
>>http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
>
>
> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but I
> agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority of
> the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and dictating
> how the game should be made.
>
Chances are you are in the majority...the minority are the few who are
moaning about it.

--
Byron Hinson
My Photography
http://www.designerdream.co.uk/photography

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Andrew wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority, but
>>I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the majority
>>of the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions share and
>>dictating how the game should be made.
>
> I don't think you are in the minority with that view.

Well, it never gave me any problems either. I'd rather not have to use it,
but I'm prepared to at the minute. There are sensible criticisms of Steam,
half-articulated among a blizzard of misunderstanding and paranoia by
people like SayNoToSteam.

I'd prefer it if Valve's unenforceable rules considering selling your
licence for HL2 or whatever didn't exist. Not that they would stop me for a
second.

You should be able to activate it by phone.

You should be able to apply patches to the Steam platform and games, easily,
via normal EXE files so that they could be put on cover CD's etc.

You effectively need broadband. When Strike Commander was released in the
early 90s everyone was bitching because you needed 4MB RAM and a 386 or
whatever. The envelope has to be pushed at some point. It's funny how
people don't see that this hurts Valve as much as it does the gamer insofar
as it limits the user base.

 

[schrodinger]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Byron Hinson" <byron@activewin.com> wrote in message
news:JdZZd.1915$uM.1865@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Highlandish wrote:
>> Quoth The Raven "Paladin"<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> in
>> 1110969028.24770.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net
>>
>>>...and explains what lies at the heart of the debate over direct
>>>distribution:
>>>
>>>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business".
>>>The reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which
>>>gives publishers control over all steps of the game development
>>>process. Spector compared the current situation to early days of the
>>>American film industry when large studios controlled all aspects of
>>>development, distribution, and marketing movies. Spector suggested
>>>that developers need to break this cycle by finding new distribution
>>>methods similar to what Valve accomplished by selling Half-Life 2
>>>through Steam.
>>>http://ds.ign.com/articles/595/595652p1.html?fromint=1
>>
>>
>> personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a minority,
>> but I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
>> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the lions
>> share and dictating how the game should be made.
>>
> Chances are you are in the majority...the minority are the few who are
> moaning about it.
>
> --
> Byron Hinson
> My Photography
> http://www.designerdream.co.uk/photography

Which is why the problems with Steam have been mentioned in every review I
have seen - even the fanbois ones - and even made it to the front page of
BBC news.

It is a good idea, badly implemented. Fair comment as these guys are
blazing the trail here - don't, however, mix up criticism with "moaning".

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>He claimed that the games industry is a "hopelessly broken business". The
>reason behind this is a poor funding distribution model which gives
>publishers control over all steps of the game development process.

I think he has some very valid points. I don't like Steam, but only
because of it's use as an aggresive anti-piracy tool (which naturally
enough breaks the game for some legitimate customers).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "Andrew MacPherson"<andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com>
in memo.20050316113035.1240C@address_disguised.address_disguised
> In article <39qh91F655kdvU1@individual.net>,
> ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au (Highlandish) wrote:
>
>> I agree that a method must be created to give the developer the
>> majority of the income, rather than the distributor taking the
>> lions share and dictating how the game should be made
>
> Agree 100%. Steam isn't perfect, but it offers a good chance for
> developers to take a higher percentage of a diminishing market
> (thanks to the rise & rise of console gaming).
>
> Actually Steam is one of the better schemes. If you reformat the HD
> all you need is your account details, a bit of DLing, and you're back
> in business. No faffing about with authorisation codes & limited
> numbers of reactivations like other schemes which are becoming
> increasingly common... sadly. That kind of thing *really* bugs me.
>
> The only significant problem with Steam and online distribution in
> general is for people stuck with modem only connections. But
> broadband digital distribution will be how we get pretty much
> everything within ten years, I'm sure; movies, TV, games, the lot.
> We'd better get used to it... even Señor sayNOtocapitals&fullstops.
>
> Andrew McP

I am on dialup, it only took me 3 weeks to get all the files, 2 days before
world wide activation, and 45 mins to activate. I wasn't disappointed.

--
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill
(1874-1965)

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <39qmhkF61amhaU1@individual.net>, ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au
(Highlandish) wrote:

> I am on dialup, it only took me 3 weeks to get all the files

Ouch! But it proves that anything's possible if you're patient enough.
Personally I was more impressed by Steam than HL2. Maybe I should've
downloaded it slower? ;-)

Andrew McP

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:30:35 -0000, "Paladin"
<sirgruffil@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Spector
>compared the current situation to early days of the American film industry
>when large studios controlled all aspects of development, distribution, and
>marketing movies.
Um, they don't now?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> and yes a 56k modem will have to take at least 10 uninterrupted days
running
> at full speed to download the 4000000000 bytes of data hl2 requires
>
> a dial-up user should have to pay at least 300 dollars or more for
hl2!
> pay 300 dollars or more and wait at least 3 weeks or more to play
hl2!
> FOR GOD SAKE WILL ANYONE DENY THIS IS A TOTAL AND COMPLETE
OUTRAGE!!!!!

Yeah, you're right. I would have gone out and bought the disc rather
than download the whole game. Then Steam just has to download the
updates.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "riku"<riku@invalid.none.com> in
609g311f6anptdlihfao9mi2s60akqi6r0@4ax.com
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:49:01 +1100, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>personally Steam never gave me problems. I understand I am a
>>minority, but I agree that a method must be created to give the
>>developer the majority of the income, rather than the distributor
>>taking the lions share and dictating how the game should be made.
>
> You don't need Steam for that. Look for e.g. Stardock Central. Or how
> the original Doom was sold as shareware.

I had to travel to the capital city to find a game shop to buy the doom1
shareware floppy for $5. not that convenient. and that $5 was only for the
home-duplicated floppy containing the shareware version, not the full
version. I copied my mates pirated Doom1 downloaded the full-pirate doom2
from a BBS. did iD get any of my money? so much for their distribution
system.

Steam has pretty much fixed that problem by not allowing anything to run or
patch that isn't their own original software. sure you can get a pirated
version of HL2, but all you can do is play an unpatched single player game
(for most that is enough I admit) but HL2 has to be one of the most popular
games that is least pirated, because of Steam.

I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly
implemented the system for limited connection users. they should send out
the basic HL2-only DVD to all Steam purchasers so at least they always have
the game, the rest can be downloaded off their servers. but I applaud
content authentication.

I haven't tried Star Dock Central, it looks OK but it seems like its
optional if you want updates from them personally. it doesn't look enforced
and I can assume you can source your updates elsewhere without a SDC
installation.

--
I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and
give the wrong answers. - A Bit of Fry and Laurie

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Andrew]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:55:16 +1100, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>I had to travel to the capital city to find a game shop to buy the doom1
>shareware floppy for $5. not that convenient. and that $5 was only for the
>home-duplicated floppy containing the shareware version, not the full
>version. I copied my mates pirated Doom1 downloaded the full-pirate doom2
>from a BBS. did iD get any of my money? so much for their distribution
>system.

Doom was very popular where I worked, but I don't know anyone who
bought a copy for the PC. As I didn't have, and at the time didn't
want, a gaming spec PC, I only got to play Doom when it was released
for my Atari Jaguar and later the excellent Playstation version. I
guess iD did okay financially from it, but the piracy then was
probably worse than now.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:39rh97F636birU1@individual.net...

> Steam has pretty much fixed that problem by not allowing anything to run
or
> patch that isn't their own original software. sure you can get a pirated
> version of HL2, but all you can do is play an unpatched single player game
> (for most that is enough I admit) but HL2 has to be one of the most
popular
> games that is least pirated, because of Steam.

Where do you get the idea that the pirated version doesn't get updates?
Nearly every HL2 update has been released by the Steam emulator folks, you
can even apply them to your store bought copy if you use the Steam emulator.

> I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly
> implemented the system for limited connection users. they should send out
> the basic HL2-only DVD to all Steam purchasers so at least they always
have
> the game, the rest can be downloaded off their servers. but I applaud
> content authentication.

Why do you "applaud" content authentication? It's unnecessary and adds
nothing but hassle to the legit buyer. Somebody you pays money for a game
doesn't "need" the game company to give him "permission" to *run* the game.

Steam, as it is currently implemented, is intrustive, unnecessary and
illegitimate.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, "Highlandish" wrote:

> I'm no Steam fan-boi, I readily admit it has flaws and Valve has badly

no you're not a steam fanboy you are a TOTAL MORON!
YOU'RE SO STUPID! YOU WAIT AND PAY FOR 3 WEEKS OF DOWNLOADS TO PLAY HL2
OVERALL COSTS WAS FOR SURE OVER 300 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE DAMN PC GAMES
AND YOU DEFEND THE SYSTEM?????
WHAT KIND OF MASOCHISTIC RETARD ARE YOU?????

AND BTW PIRATE, DOOM IS SOLD IN EVERY RETAIL STORE AROUND THE WORLD SO
BUY IT IMMEDIATLY YOU THIEF CAUSE YOU HAVEN'T ANY EXCUSE TO STEAL IT!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Vader des Vaderlands wrote:

<snip>

> be an improvement for the PC games industry if every developer received
> a larger cut for each copy of their game sold, but some of the
> sacrifices Valve asks of their customers shouldn't have to be made.

very well said!
a true wise voice in this group!
thanks a million!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Werner Spahl wrote:

> But these distribution methods leave all people without broadband access
> in the cold, every other problem regarding Steam ignored. Another way to
> get more control would be something like GOD (Gathering of Developers),
> who, as I understand it, planned to distribute their games themselves.

exactly! right on the important issue!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:22:06 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>id worked hard and made the best pc games ever created!
>and yes they fortunately received reward but they deserved much more!
>that's why next april 8th all of us will buy RESURECTION OF EVIL and
>you too old consolist pretending to be a pc gamer! YOU TOO BUY IT!
>

"All of us?" "Shouldn't you be saying all of YOU?"

You've admitted plenty of times that you machine's not fast enough to
run current games. Including Doom3.
On April 8th YOU won't be buying anything.
Except maybe 5 year old games from the budget bin.


Remove nospam_ to reply by email

Jeff H........


Lies, All lies. Don't believe a word Difool/sayNO says.
He fears the truth!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven "sayNO2steam"<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> in
rmmi31prn0ck6ebco55mmjt86fvst390e0@4ax.com
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, "Highlandish" wrote:
>
> you say steam never gave you any problems

tosser, I do admit that steam subscribers should also receive a DVD from
valve as well as the dl choice. my dialup connection is a flat rate 23.90 a
month, and I used an ATI free game voucher to activate the game, but I was
hardly inconvenienced in ay way.

--
Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> On 17 Mar 2005, "Chadwick" wrote:
>
> > Yeah, you're right. I would have gone out and bought the disc
rather
> > than download the whole game. Then Steam just has to download the
> > updates.
>
> again wrong wrong wrong!
> man you always miss!
> the steam updates for half-life 2 are growing each week!

I wasn't talking about the updates. I was talking about downloading the
whole game. Given the choice between downloading the whole game over
three weeks, or installing it off disk I would do the latter.


> the last time i read about it, took ONE full hour for a high speed
> broadband connection to update it and its mandatory, you must do it
> so if broadband takes ONE full hour, dial-up will take TWENTY hours
> almost a FULL DAY!
> do you find spending! waiting! and wasting money on download for a
> FULL DAY only to update a damn single pc game you bough reasonable?
> OH MY GOD IS THE WORLD GONE CRAZY!!!!
> THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!
> SPENDING A FULL DAY ONLY TO UPDATE A DAMN SINGLE PC GAME!!!!!

Would the updates be any quicker if Steam weren't there? I don't think
Steam slows your internet connection.