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extension cord question

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August 21, 2004 8:03:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.

if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
quality?

it will go like this:
wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 8:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy wrote:

> i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
> if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> quality?

No, but it will help preserve AC voltge.





> it will go like this:
> wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
> it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.

Buy a 25' 12ga. cord at Home Depot for $16.99 and you're there.

If you want to get fancy, open up the power strip and replace its cord with the new one.
Anonymous
August 21, 2004 10:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"xy" wrote ...
> i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
> if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> quality?

Probably not. But it may preserve the structural integrity of your house.
(By preventing it from catching fire from overheated wiring!)

Or to put it another way, the size of the wiring must be selected according
to how much load you are drawing through it.

> it will go like this:
> wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
> it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.

A rough rule-of-thumb would be to add up all the power ratings of
your equipment and come up with a total wattage. Then divide by
120 (or 240 depending on your line voltage) to give you the max
current draw (in amps). Most power devices (outlets, extention
cables, power strips, etc.0) will be rated for a maximum current
rating.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 12:46:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.

That's nice.

>if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
>quality?

How much current are you pulling? You need to use whatever cable is rated
for that current level. If you're plugging into a 15A outlet in the wall,
there is only 14 ga. cable going to the outlet to begin with so there is
no sense using anything larger for another short 20 foot run.

>it will go like this:
>wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
>it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.

So, what is your current demand?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 6:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy wrote:

> i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
> if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> quality?

Why do you think it'll influence signal ( sound ) quality ?

Graham
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 11:11:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <6c38b64b.0408211503.47390d8b@posting.google.com> genericaudioperson@hotmail.com writes:

> i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
> if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> quality?

Depends on what you're plugging in. For normal studio gear where your
total current drain is just a few amps, a "big orange" #14 extension
cord will do just fine. If you have a bank of large power amplifiers,
that's a different issue, but then you probalby wouldn't be plugging
them into a simple outlet strip anyway.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 3:51:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4127F4B4.3845291F@hotmail.com> rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com writes:

> xy wrote:
> > if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> > quality?
>
> Why do you think it'll influence signal ( sound ) quality ?

Maybe he reads the ads for the $2,000 extension cords and believes
that they improve signal quality.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 5:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 21 Aug 2004 16:03:20 -0700, genericaudioperson@hotmail.com (xy)
wrote:

>i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
>if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
>quality?
>
>it will go like this:
>wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
>it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.


Between your equipment and the power station is probably many miles of
cable, adequately rated for the power it carries. I suggest you
continue this excellent philosophy over the final few feet ;-)

Use adequate cable. There is no possible point in using cable
"better" than what connects the power outlet to your main distribution
board. If you use cable that is too light, it may overheat and burn
your house down. But that's basic electrical safety, not anything to
do with audio quality.


CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
August 22, 2004 5:41:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

thanks for all the insights. i think i'm fine. i was thinking the
extension cord would degrade the sound quality, similar to adding an
unnecessary gain stage in a signal chain.

but it looks like i have nothing to worry about in that regard.

the watts/120 = amps is a helpful equation, and Mr. Dorsey's reminder
that the house wall current is 15 amps (typically) is a good limit to
remember.

my setup is pretty simple. i just need to remember to stay under 1800
watts on the outlet at any one time, under 1400 to be safe and have
some "headroom". and that a thick cord is good to reduce fire haaard.

thanks once again
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 8:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> i need to run about a 20 foot extension cord so i can hide some wires.
>
> if i use a really thick extension cord, will that help preserve signal
> quality?
>
> it will go like this:
> wall outlet>>thick extension cord>>power strip with thick cord on
> it>>audio equipment/computer stuff.

Considering there's probably a few hundred miles between you and the power
plant, the last 20' aren't especially consequential. If you're concerned
about noise in the power line you should have a power line conditioner.
Look into Furman rackmount units.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 1:50:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>my setup is pretty simple. i just need to remember to stay under 1800
>watts on the outlet at any one time, under 1400 to be safe and have
>some "headroom". and that a thick cord is good to reduce fire haaard.
>
>thanks once again
>
>
The "thickness" must relate to the wire size. That alone determines how many
amps it will carry for any given voltage.

ex. 20 amp = 12 guage
15 amp = 14 guage

Please don't be using a 16-18 guage extension cord, even if the outside
covering is fat and thick. You don't want to load up a circuit and have the
wire burn out before the breaker trips.

BTW, most modern house wiring is 12 ga. NM2 on 20 amp circuits. Lighting
circuits are 15 amp on 14 ga.


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
August 23, 2004 4:01:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

totally,

i want to get a balanced power box. furman has an expensive line that
i saw at last NYC AES. i want that one. it's like $3000!

i have a "few" purchases before that. but it's on my outside-orbit
wish list.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 12:49:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>i want to get a balanced power box. furman has an expensive line that
>i saw at last NYC AES. i want that one. it's like $3000!

Why? What problem do you have that you think balanced power will solve?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 3:18:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 23 Aug 2004 00:01:35 -0700, genericaudioperson@hotmail.com (xy)
wrote:

>
>i want to get a balanced power box. furman has an expensive line that
>i saw at last NYC AES. i want that one. it's like $3000!

Are you experiencing problems with your power supply? Or do you just
like owning expensive gear? :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 6:00:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>i want to get a balanced power box. furman has an expensive line that
>i saw at last NYC AES. i want that one. it's like $3000!

Why? What problem do you have that you think balanced power will solve?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>



Too much money in the pocket? Inferior power complex?

Mac

insert obscure quote from "Diva" here :) 
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 6:00:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040823100038.25600.00004535@mb-m29.aol.com>,
MacKerr <mackerr@aol.compost> wrote:
><< xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>i want to get a balanced power box. furman has an expensive line that
>>i saw at last NYC AES. i want that one. it's like $3000!
>
>Why? What problem do you have that you think balanced power will solve?
>
>Too much money in the pocket? Inferior power complex?

Balanced power _does_ solve chassis leakage problems, and it can be a real
handy thing to have when people bring guitar amps or instrument racks with
power supply problems into the studio.

Well, it doesn't really _solve_ the problems, but it hides them anyway.
Which is good enough for a session.

Of course, that's not enough that I would spend $3000 for something outrageous,
but it might be enough that I would spend $100 for a surplus isolation
transformer with a center tap.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 10:13:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Wayne <ybstudios@aol.com> wrote:
> The "thickness" must relate to the wire size. That alone determines how many
> amps it will carry for any given voltage.

> ex. 20 amp = 12 guage
> 15 amp = 14 guage

This is true for the solid core romex stuff used for electrical wiring
in walls of a building. Does this hold true for the stranded stuff
in extension cords? Also, should the jacket not be a factor?

Rob R.
Anonymous
August 23, 2004 10:13:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rob Reedijk <reedijk@hera.med.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>Wayne <ybstudios@aol.com> wrote:
>> The "thickness" must relate to the wire size. That alone determines how many
>> amps it will carry for any given voltage.
>
>> ex. 20 amp = 12 guage
>> 15 amp = 14 guage
>
>This is true for the solid core romex stuff used for electrical wiring
>in walls of a building. Does this hold true for the stranded stuff
>in extension cords?

It also holds true for SJ-style cables in extension cords under a hundred
feet. If you are going longer than a hundred feet or you have high peak
current demands, there is a chart in the NEC on derating cables.

I _think_ the minimum allowable power cord in the US is 18 ga, although
in Europe with 240V you often see smaller.

> Also, should the jacket not be a factor?

Only in that thicker jackets hold in more heat, so the derating fudge
factors for heating change. If you look the cable type up in the NEC
book, there will be a table for recommended gauge/length/current. For
some cable types there will be several tables: for example THHN cable
can be put in various kinds of conduit and the conduit can be almost empty
or pretty full, and the derating due to heat is dependant on this.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 1:04:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> The "thickness" must relate to the wire size. That alone determines how
>many
>> amps it will carry for any given voltage.
>
>> ex. 20 amp = 12 guage
>> 15 amp = 14 guage
>
>This is true for the solid core romex stuff used for electrical wiring
>in walls of a building. Does this hold true for the stranded stuff
>in extension cords? Also, should the jacket not be a factor?
>
>Rob R.
>
>
If we're talking about continuing a house/commercial wiring outlet thru an
extension cable then you have to make some decisions on the total load. If
you're gonna use a 15-20 ft three conductor stranded extension cable for 3-5
pieces of equipment (probably less than 5-6 amps total) the 18 ga will work. I
don't mess with anything smaller than 14 guage. I'm even running 12 guage
stranded wire on my speakers.

Mainly, I was referencing the continuation of a 20 amp circuit because of
physical limitations (the equipment is 10-15 feet from the wall outlet) and you
want to utilize the full capacity of the circuit.

I'm running all of my equipment with the exception of the playback system on a
20 amp cirucuit and haven't had any problems. Naturally, it all hasn't been on
at the same time(he-heh), but I am running a Mac, XT20, HD24 and a bunch of
outboard stuff.

The jacket will also be rated to the wire size I believe. Of course, if the
wire is the correct size for the application, there shouldn't be any heat.
Then you only got to worry about running over it with a hand truck or
amplifier.


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
August 24, 2004 1:17:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

..
>
> The jacket will also be rated to the wire size I believe. Of course, if the
> wire is the correct size for the application, there shouldn't be any heat.
> Then you only got to worry about running over it with a hand truck or
> amplifier.
>
>
> --Wayne
>
> -"sounded good to me"-

if that is a concern SO rated wire will stand up to anything, I had a
bulldozer run over my 6/4 so feeder cable last weekend
no problems
but if your even more concerned get MIL spec , sorry I do not have the
part number but it is nickle plated copper with a semi hard plastic
filler and a stainless steel braid under the toughest jacket I have ever
seen
It is meant to survived tank treads in battlefeild situations
I have 3 600 foot spools (still on the olive drab reels)I picked up and
use them for high traffic outdoor situations
George
August 24, 2004 2:07:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

no problems. just that i know that balanced power will take any
overall system down a few db in residual noise. and the "super" one
takes it down even a bit further.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 10:33:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> I _think_ the minimum allowable power cord in the US is 18 ga, although
> in Europe with 240V you often see smaller.

In Europe we don't use AWG though !

18 AWG appears to be about 0.85 mm^2

I can't recollect ever seeing an extension cord here rated at less than 6 Amps for
which 0.75 mm^2 seems to be the suggested conductor size.

Graham
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 12:33:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>no problems. just that i know that balanced power will take any
>overall system down a few db in residual noise. and the "super" one
>takes it down even a bit further.

No, this is a flat out lie. Do not believe the marketing.

If the dominant noise source is thermal noise, which is usually the case,
balanced power will not do anything at all for you.

Balanced power systems reduce noise problems due to chassis leakage, and
because they are also isolation transformers, they also reduce RF noise
induced through the power line.

They do nothing else. Nothing.

You would not believe the number of people out there who have bought balanced
power systems in an attempt to cure totally unrelated noise problems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 1:31:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> should the jacket not be a factor?
>
> Only in that thicker jackets hold in more heat, so the derating fudge
> factors for heating change.

Also in the general durability area--in which 600V (SO) cables last far longer than 300V (SJO) variants.

J = Junior = 300V insulation.
August 26, 2004 4:59:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

really?

i thought it would bring your whole system down a few db.

let's say you had a nice system, clean-running 24 bit, mogami wiring,
real world s/n ratio of about 97db from d-a to monitors. i was
thinking the balanced power could get it to 100db just "because".
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 9:07:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>really?
>
>i thought it would bring your whole system down a few db.

No, look at your noise sources.

>let's say you had a nice system, clean-running 24 bit, mogami wiring,
>real world s/n ratio of about 97db from d-a to monitors. i was
>thinking the balanced power could get it to 100db just "because".

If the dominant noise source is hum from chassis leakage, it definitely
will. If the dominant noise source is RF trash leaking in from the power
line, it might.

If the dominant noise source is thermal noise (hiss), it won't do
a damn thing. I am amazed at the number of people buying power line
devices thinking they will do something about noise that has nothing
to do with the power line.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!