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Minimal micing suggestions for drum kit

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Anonymous
August 24, 2004 11:02:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
Gid
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 3:01:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
> padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
> would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
> number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
> 2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
> with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
> had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
> toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
> I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
> What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
> knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
> Gid

I would rent an appropriate kick mic, a couple SM57's, a quad gate, and a
decent mixer, mic everything and mix the kick, snare, and toms to two
tracks, and record the overheads separately. I'd use the tube
preamp/compressor on the kick and snare, since I generally compress them
slightly but usually leave the toms alone. I'd use the Focusrite pre's on
the overheads, and the toms will be fine with the pre's in a board from
Soundcraft, A&H, Crest, etc. You'll have to print the relative EQ's right
for everything but the overheads, pay special attention to the attack
transients in the 2.5kHz to 4kHz range, otherwise it will sound like the
drummer's always hitting one drum harder than the other.
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 3:25:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've had good luck recently close micing the kick and snare plus a
single mono overhead mic, you could try your AT 4050 in cardioid for
that, or for stereo use the two M-160s. I'd use the tube pre for the
overhead mic/s. You could close-mic the kick with a 421. If you play
with the positioning you should be able to get a great sound from the
overheads & just mix in a little of the kick for more punch. If you
have an extra track, add another mic on the snare.

Al

On 24 Aug 2004 07:02:39 -0700, minglewood@nls.net (Gid Tanner) wrote:

>Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
>drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
>padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
>would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
>number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
>2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
>with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
>had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
>toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
>I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
> What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
>knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
>Gid
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Anonymous
August 24, 2004 7:28:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

minglewood@nls.net (Gid Tanner) wrote in message news:<aa41079f.0408240602.46646af1@posting.google.com>...
> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
> padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
> would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
> number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
> 2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
> with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
> had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
> toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
> I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
> What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
> knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
> Gid

I toured with a jazz big band for several years, and also did some
recordings with them, and my goal was the same: use few mics and
"capture" the sound of the kit.

Here's what I would suggest based on the mics you have:

Kick - MD421 with the rotary switch set to one click off "M", and make
up the LF at the console. Sounds punchier that way than fully on "M"
IMO.

Overheads - The two 4050s should work well. I'd place one of them
straight over the snare and about 4 ft. above it, and the other one to
the drummer's right, looking over the floor tom back over to the
snare. These two mics should be EXACTLY the same distance from the
center of the snare drum. By varying the height of that 2nd overhead
mic (the one by the floor tom) you can balance the floor tom with the
rest of the kit. But again, be certain that it is the same distance
from the snare as the other one.

With these three mics, you should get a really good "open" kit sound.
Now, you may need to use another mic or two depending on the kit.
Maybe for snare, depending on how "close miked" you want it to sound.
Maybe for hi hat, ditto.

Have fun.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 7:32:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You can make great recordings with 2 mics on the drums. My starting
location for doing that is right where you mentioned. I go about 2-3 feet
out in a stereo pair "looking" at the snare over the toms. If you get the
position right, you don't even need a kick mic.

When doing this, I usually use a good stereo mic. Usually my AKG 426, but I
also use Neumann SM-69/23, AKG C-34 or even the Shure VP-88 (mid side can
really help dig out the snare). I'd probably start with your condensers to
get the sound.

For some rock stuff, though, you may find that you will do well by having a
kick mic, though... For jazz, you won't need anything else. For the
vintage sound you're looking for, listen and see- I could see it going both
ways. You likely won't need a snare mic with this setup.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"Gid Tanner" <minglewood@nls.net> wrote in message ...
> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
> padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
> would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
> number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
> 2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
> with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
> had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
> toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
> I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
> What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
> knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
> Gid
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 7:42:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <aa41079f.0408240602.46646af1@posting.google.com> minglewood@nls.net writes:

> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock.

Gid Tanner didn't use drums and play vintage rock. What did you do
with the real Gid Tanner?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 24, 2004 8:15:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Gid Tanner" <minglewood@nls.net> wrote in message
news:aa41079f.0408240602.46646af1@posting.google.com...
> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
> padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
> would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
> number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
> 2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
> with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
> had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
> toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
> I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.

I'd go with that, except I think I'd put the M160s up higher. Oh, and I'd
use them in near-XY configuration, which is like XY except that the
left-pointing mike is slid a little to the left and the right-pointing mike
is slid a little to the right, so there's clearance for the balls. (There's
a good straight line for you.) With hypercardioids, I'd use a 90 degree
angle instead of the usual 110.

Oh, and I'd use the Focusrite pre for the M160s. If you need to save a
track, you may be able to do without the 421 on the snare.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 12:30:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1093368030k@trad>...
> In article <aa41079f.0408240602.46646af1@posting.google.com> minglewood@nls.net writes:
>
> > Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> > drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock.
>
> Gid Tanner didn't use drums and play vintage rock. What did you do
> with the real Gid Tanner?

Well, I traded my fiddle for an electric guitar and told the other
Skillet Lickers to hit the road!
Gid
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:45:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
blues/rock drum set up. :-P



Skler
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:45:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:45:04 -0500, "Cerion" <eeeeek@notmail.com>
wrote:

>I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
>blues/rock drum set up. :-P

That would be impossible without actually being in the room... but
it's very doable given enought time to experiment.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 5:38:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I've had good luck recently close micing the kick and snare plus a
single mono overhead mic, >>

This is how I do a lot of my live concert recording. Stereo is pretty overrated
for drum overheads, IMO. And with this arrangement I find I can get by with
very little of the snare & kick mics.


Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 5:38:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It's enjoyable to read people's drum mic ideas, since I'm still trying to
figure mine out, having had limited experience.

So far I like "over head" mics placed right behind the drummer so they're
looking at the edge of the cymbals instead of seeing the tops of the
cymbals.

Also, I like spacing the mics closer than most people, but definitely not an
XY configuration; to me that's too close and doesn't offer much of a stereo
image, but the typical three or four feet apart (or more) I see when people
are simply using over heads to augment all their zillions of other mics on a
kit is way too far apart to my ears, especially when you're using a stereo
pair that will be more prominent in the mix.

You could go for a vintage 60's - early 70's style, heh heh... with drums
popping out of one side of your mix along with bass guitar or something like
that. It actually sounds kind of cool context, with instrumentation
conducive to that kind of thing.

I've heard some 4 track and little hard disk portastudio recorders where
drums were recorded with 1 room mic and some of them sound great! That kind
of approach can really work well but in that case the room acoustics and
quality of the drum kit sound are pretty important to begin with since you
can't control it as much by juggling EQs, gates, effects & levels on
individual tracks.

I would guess that most of the really amazing drum mixes I've heard involve
a great many microphones and some real experience behind tuning the kit,
playing it of course, selecting mics & placing them. Lots O mics are the
norm.

Kick mic, snare mic & one over head mic can be a fun experiment to try. You
might be surprised.

Large diaphragm condensers are really amazing for kick...

Overheads don't have to have super high end response if you're planning on
using any artificial ambiance or reverberation at all.

With three mics you could center kick, pan snare a bit & then pan a single
overhead a bit to the opposite side of the snare.

Don't be afraid to be different or feel compelled to do what everyone else
is doing.

Experiment. Mixing can be as creative as song writing or anything else if
you want it to be & you don't have to be complicated to be creative.


Skler



ScotFraser <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040824213808.14634.00002232@mb-m29.aol.com...
> << I've had good luck recently close micing the kick and snare plus a
> single mono overhead mic, >>
>
> This is how I do a lot of my live concert recording. Stereo is pretty
overrated
> for drum overheads, IMO. And with this arrangement I find I can get by
with
> very little of the snare & kick mics.
>
>
> Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 5:38:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 25 Aug 2004 01:38:08 GMT, scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:

><< I've had good luck recently close micing the kick and snare plus a
>single mono overhead mic, >>
>
>This is how I do a lot of my live concert recording. Stereo is pretty overrated
>for drum overheads, IMO. And with this arrangement I find I can get by with
>very little of the snare & kick mics.
>
>
>Scott Fraser

Yep I was just playing with this some more today, I replaced the OH
Gefell M582 with a Soundelux U195, they both sound great for this
application going thru a Great River NV. The tube Gefell is fat and
chunky while the U195 is more open on the top end, just depends what
flavor you are going for. But placement is everything, just a few
inches up or down and it all changes. When you I got that mic set so
that it really picked up the low end from the kit, it's killer. I
then just mix in a tiny bit of the kick & snare mics for definition.
My room is not ideal but it's well treated and the results are pretty
usuable.

Al
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 5:38:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:03:29 -0500, "Cerion" <eeeeek@notmail.com>
wrote:

>With three mics you could center kick, pan snare a bit & then pan a single
>overhead a bit to the opposite side of the snare.

Wouldn't this kind of blur the snare hit?

I've heard of guys getting good rock n roll sounds hanging a single
cheap omni over the drummer's head... depends on the room of course.
August 25, 2004 6:43:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040824213808.14634.00002232@mb-m29.aol.com>,
scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:

> << I've had good luck recently close micing the kick and snare plus a
> single mono overhead mic, >>
>
> This is how I do a lot of my live concert recording. Stereo is pretty
> overrated
> for drum overheads, IMO. And with this arrangement I find I can get by with
> very little of the snare & kick mics.
>

this is my festival drum micing as well unless forced i never close mic
a entire kit
George
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 9:21:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
blues/rock drum set up. >>

Any decent single mic in the position Ben described for his AKG 426. No big
deal. Done it lots of times.



Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 1:40:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks one and all for your detailed suggestions! You've been extremely helpful.
--Gid

minglewood@nls.net (Gid Tanner) wrote in message news:<aa41079f.0408240602.46646af1@posting.google.com>...
> Hello. I would appreciate suggestions and advice. I am recording a
> drum kit for a session of blues/vintage rock. The room is fairly well
> padded and dead. The drummer is good and gets a balanced sound. I
> would like to use as few mics as possible, as I have only a limited
> number of tracks available (two to four tracks, given the song).
> Here is my available equipment: 2 Beyer M160's; 2 Seinheisser 421's;
> 2 AT 4050's. I have a 2-channel tube pre-amp/compressor (custom made
> with a warm, fat sound) and a 2-channel Focusrite Red 8 pre-amp. I
> had thought of placing the M160's in front of and slightly above the
> toms, and seeing if that would suffice for the whole kit. If need be,
> I would add one 421 for the kick and one for the snare.
> What would your recipe be? I really appreciate the expert
> knowledge/advice I get here. Thanks!
> Gid
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 2:49:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cgh4rq$jd8$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> eeeeek@notmail.com writes:

> I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
> blues/rock drum set up. :-P

Somewhere in the same room with the perfect blues/rock drummer with a
good kit.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 2:55:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Cerion <eeeeek@notmail.com> wrote:
>I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
>blues/rock drum set up. :-P

For any given drum set up, room, song, arrangement, and mix, there is one
perfect single mike and position...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
August 25, 2004 3:32:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How should one pan those two mices? Centered while recording (to one track)
or after recording (recording to two tracks)?
And what''ll happen to the kick, because the 2 mices cannot be equidistant
to both snare AND kick....or?

thanks for your answer,regards,
Bob


"Karl Winkler" <karlwinkler66@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:82150ded.0408241428.23d3ebcc@posting.google.com...
> Overheads - The two 4050s should work well. I'd place one of them
> straight over the snare and about 4 ft. above it, and the other one to
> the drummer's right, looking over the floor tom back over to the
> snare. These two mics should be EXACTLY the same distance from the
> center of the snare drum. By varying the height of that 2nd overhead
> mic (the one by the floor tom) you can balance the floor tom with the
> rest of the kit. But again, be certain that it is the same distance
> from the snare as the other one.
>
> With these three mics, you should get a really good "open" kit sound.
> Now, you may need to use another mic or two depending on the kit.
> Maybe for snare, depending on how "close miked" you want it to sound.
> Maybe for hi hat, ditto.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Karl Winkler
> Lectrosonics, Inc.
> http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:32:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob" <b.dewever@amc.uva.nl> wrote in message news:<1093426320.186584@aquila.amc.uva.nl>...
> How should one pan those two mices? Centered while recording (to one track)
> or after recording (recording to two tracks)?
> And what''ll happen to the kick, because the 2 mices cannot be equidistant
> to both snare AND kick....or?
>
> thanks for your answer,regards,
> Bob
>
>
Good questions. The two overhead mics should be recorded on separate
tracks, and then panned left and right (depending on whether you want
drummer's perspective or audience perspective). It's not as important
(IMO) to have the OH mics equidistant to the kick, partially because
it's such a large instrument. By having a separate mic on it, and
panning it center, the ear will hear the kick coming from the center.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
August 25, 2004 3:45:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cgh4rq$jd8$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
"Cerion" <eeeeek@notmail.com> wrote:

> I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
> blues/rock drum set up. :-P
>
>
>
> Skler
>
>

what about Useable and acceptable, this I can do
but nothing is perfect
George
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 3:59:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 25 Aug 2004 07:04:42 -0700, karlwinkler66@yahoo.com (Karl Winkler)
wrote:

>"Bob" <b.dewever@amc.uva.nl> wrote in message news:<1093426320.186584@aquila.amc.uva.nl>...
>> How should one pan those two mices? Centered while recording (to one track)
>> or after recording (recording to two tracks)?
>> And what''ll happen to the kick, because the 2 mices cannot be equidistant
>> to both snare AND kick....or?
>>
>> thanks for your answer,regards,
>> Bob
>>
>>
>Good questions. The two overhead mics should be recorded on separate
>tracks, and then panned left and right (depending on whether you want
>drummer's perspective or audience perspective). It's not as important
>(IMO) to have the OH mics equidistant to the kick, partially because
>it's such a large instrument. By having a separate mic on it, and
>panning it center, the ear will hear the kick coming from the center.

And you don't have to pan them to extremes if you want a more focused
sound.

Al
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 4:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Cerion <eeeeek@notmail.com> wrote:
> I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
> blues/rock drum set up. :-P

Easily done. Providing you bring the perfect drummer.

Most muli-mic'ing and processing is done to make up for inadequate
musicianship, poor room quality and amateur equipment.

You give me John Bonham in a good sounding room on a set of Canwoods
and it's easy. In fact, I probably don't have to be very good to
hold up my end of the bargain.

Rob R.
August 25, 2004 5:54:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

not true at all.

what if you want to have a big reverb on the snare, but the kick
completely dry?

what if you want to have the toms do a dramatic stereo pan during a
fill, with the hi toms gated, the low toms open, and have the snare
with huge reverb and be able to eq the kick differently, apply
compression to the kick, and have the kick be completely dry?

the truth is that more mics give you more mixing options. that's not
always what you need. but when you need it, there is no substitute
for the discrete mixing options that a multi-miced setup will give
you.

it's a nice thought to think that a singe cubic inch spot with a mono
or stereo mic can capture whatever you want depending on where you
place the mic. but it has nothing to do with reality. unless your
reality consists entirely of easy-listening and old big band music.
Anonymous
August 25, 2004 7:06:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

playon <playonATcomcast.net> wrote in message news:<dbopi0l9ddtggpv024589no7og5rht5nar@4ax.com>...
> On 25 Aug 2004 07:04:42 -0700, karlwinkler66@yahoo.com (Karl Winkler)
> wrote:
>
> >"Bob" <b.dewever@amc.uva.nl> wrote in message news:<1093426320.186584@aquila.amc.uva.nl>...
> >> How should one pan those two mices? Centered while recording (to one track)
> >> or after recording (recording to two tracks)?
> >> And what''ll happen to the kick, because the 2 mices cannot be equidistant
> >> to both snare AND kick....or?
> >>
> >> thanks for your answer,regards,
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >Good questions. The two overhead mics should be recorded on separate
> >tracks, and then panned left and right (depending on whether you want
> >drummer's perspective or audience perspective). It's not as important
> >(IMO) to have the OH mics equidistant to the kick, partially because
> >it's such a large instrument. By having a separate mic on it, and
> >panning it center, the ear will hear the kick coming from the center.
>
> And you don't have to pan them to extremes if you want a more focused
> sound.
>
> Al

But you do have to be mindful of the phasing with the cymbals, since
anything but hard left and right panning will result in some summing
to mono of the two inputs.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 1:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 25 Aug 2004 13:54:48 -0700, genericaudioperson@hotmail.com (xy)
wrote:

>what if you want to have the toms do a dramatic stereo pan during a
>fill, with the hi toms gated, the low toms open, and have the snare
>with huge reverb and be able to eq the kick differently, apply
>compression to the kick, and have the kick be completely dry?

Well then I guess he'd be S.O.L. with minimal miking However I can't
think of a better description of a totally artificial drum sound.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:29:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< But you do have to be mindful of the phasing with the cymbals, since
anything but hard left and right panning will result in some summing
to mono of the two inputs. >>

Of course you'll also get summing of hard panned signals as soon as they emerge
from speakers into a listening environment, but that's another thread.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:32:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< it's a nice thought to think that a singe cubic inch spot with a mono
or stereo mic can capture whatever you want depending on where you
place the mic. but it has nothing to do with reality. >>

Actually it has everything to do with reality, while multimiking has everything
to do with unreality, no matter how sonically pleasing that unreality may be.

<< unless your
reality consists entirely of easy-listening and old big band music.
>>

And about 40 or 50 other genres & tastes besides easy listening & old big band.


Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

xy <genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote:
> not true at all.

> what if you want to have a big reverb on the snare, but the kick
> completely dry?

> what if you want to have the toms do a dramatic stereo pan during a
> fill, with the hi toms gated, the low toms open, and have the snare
> with huge reverb and be able to eq the kick differently, apply
> compression to the kick, and have the kick be completely dry?

Then you need to build a time-machine because you are trapped in the
eighties.

Just kidding...because

> the truth is that more mics give you more mixing options. that's not
> always what you need. but when you need it, there is no substitute
> for the discrete mixing options that a multi-miced setup will give
> you.

I actually like the really tight mic'ing of the 70s in certain songs.

> it's a nice thought to think that a singe cubic inch spot with a mono
> or stereo mic can capture whatever you want depending on where you
> place the mic. but it has nothing to do with reality. unless your
> reality consists entirely of easy-listening and old big band music.

No way. You can go way beyond those types of music. But it still comes
down to the reality that I rarely get to record in a good enough
situation where I caould put just one mic on the kit.

Rob R.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:38:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <qoaoi01vcasn3oshou644m6ku57sb47f84@4ax.com>,
playon <playonATcomcast.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:03:29 -0500, "Cerion" <eeeeek@notmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >With three mics you could center kick, pan snare a bit & then pan a single
> >overhead a bit to the opposite side of the snare.
>
> Wouldn't this kind of blur the snare hit?

Yeah... it makes more room for the vocals. Some of the 70s drum sounds
are really smeary and wide and it clears out a wide path up the middle
for the vocals and solos to fit. The later 70s Elton John stuff and Who
stuff are good examples of this...


Regards,

Monte McGuire
monte.mcguire@verizon.net
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:48:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1093426320.186584@aquila.amc.uva.nl>,
"Bob" <b.dewever@amc.uva.nl> wrote:

> How should one pan those two mices? Centered while recording (to one track)
> or after recording (recording to two tracks)?
> And what''ll happen to the kick, because the 2 mices cannot be equidistant
> to both snare AND kick....or?

Actually, imagine a line between the two drums and place the two mikes
perpendicular to this line at equal distance. This positioning could
work with the 'close to the floor tom' and the 'over the snare' mike
positions.

There are lots and lots of places where two mikes could be placed
equidistant to any two drums. The problem is that with most drum kits,
the third and fourth drums probably won't also be equidistant to these
mikes, and will probably end up much closer to only one of the mikes.
It's a tradeoff.


Regards,

Monte McGuire
monte.mcguire@verizon.net
August 26, 2004 8:32:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

cheers Karl!
Bob

> Good questions. The two overhead mics should be recorded on separate
> tracks, and then panned left and right (depending on whether you want
> drummer's perspective or audience perspective). It's not as important
> (IMO) to have the OH mics equidistant to the kick, partially because
> it's such a large instrument. By having a separate mic on it, and
> panning it center, the ear will hear the kick coming from the center.
>
> Karl Winkler
> Lectrosonics, Inc.
> http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 5:15:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > I dare you guys to come up with the perfect single mic & position for a
> > blues/rock drum set up. :-P
> >
> >


> what about Useable and acceptable, this I can do
> but nothing is perfect
> George


:-)
!