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Recording & Ethnicity

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Anonymous
August 26, 2004 11:55:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Are there any surveys showing the division of racial/ethnic
backgrounds of people involved in music production (US and/or Europe)?
Any studies which show the extent to which this may be affected by
third world immigration? Do different races perceive sound
differently, and if so, could this account for differences between the
musical traditions of various cultures? How many studio owners are
Jewish? Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same
name?
Just wondering...

More about : recording ethnicity

Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:08:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

All I know is Jamaicans like more bass!

Al

On 26 Aug 2004 07:55:07 -0700, john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John
Poindexter) wrote:

>Are there any surveys showing the division of racial/ethnic
>backgrounds of people involved in music production (US and/or Europe)?
>Any studies which show the extent to which this may be affected by
>third world immigration? Do different races perceive sound
>differently, and if so, could this account for differences between the
>musical traditions of various cultures? How many studio owners are
>Jewish? Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same
>name?
>Just wondering...
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:06:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John Poindexter) wrote:

>Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same name?

I asked Paul Rothschild that very question when he was still alive. The answer
was no, he was not related to the Rothschild banking family.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Related resources
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 5:25:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:

>That, I don't know. Anybody know what Paul Rothschild's doing these days?

Paul Rothschild isn't doing much of anything, since he died a while back.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 8:04:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Harvey Gerst <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message news:<6g9si09vnalu2fnrh0flb5o1j3ff1ia97a@4ax.com>...
> john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John Poindexter) wrote:
>
> >Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same name?
>
> I asked Paul Rothschild that very question when he was still alive. The answer
> was no, he was not related to the Rothschild banking family.
>

I didn't figure he'd be working as a record producer if he was an heir
to the biggest fortune on the planet. Then again, these types of
families get their occasional rebels. Thought that he might've
rebelled and been disowned or something.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 9:31:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Poindexter" <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7c38a7a.0408260655.931e0b8@posting.google.com...
> Are there any surveys showing the division of racial/ethnic
> backgrounds of people involved in music production (US and/or Europe)?

Not that I'm aware of.

Prior to the Beatles, entertainment was one of very few potentially decent
paying professions that was open to the lower class or to racial and
religious minorities in the United States.

The Beatles were the first popular music that was marketed as fashion and it
made being a musician, engineer or producer fashionable for the very first
time.

This really changed everything.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 11:57:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-08-26, John Poindexter <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote:

> Do different races perceive sound differently, and if so, could this
> account for differences between the musical traditions of various
> cultures?

Probably not, but your native language affects the way you
listen in a major way. The spectra vary widely from language to
language and people tend to listen to the frequencies that their
language uses, and use them in them music.

To my ears, English-speaking people tend to make music with more
highs (wide bump around 6 kHz) than anyone else. French-speaking
people use more mids (around 800 Hz). Italian-speaking people
use more hi-mids (around 2.5 kHz). (All frequencies "au jugé", I
don't carry a spectrometre with me). The differences are
probably less noticeable these days because everybody in pop
music is trying to sound like the Anglo-Saxons.

On top of that, there are considerable variations between
individuals.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/&gt;
"See daddy ? All the keys are in alphabetical order now."
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 12:24:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Poindexter" <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7c38a7a.0408260655.931e0b8@posting.google.com...

> Do different races perceive sound
> differently, and if so, could this account for differences between the
> musical traditions of various cultures?

Accounting for differences in musical traditions in various cultures seem a
bit like explaining why all fish are wet. I do think it's easier to hear
rhythms and harmonies you grew up with, but you can become accustomed to
other musical forms with exposure.

dtk
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 12:38:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 26 Aug 2004 07:55:07 -0700, john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John
Poindexter) wrote:

>Are there any surveys showing the division of racial/ethnic
>backgrounds of people involved in music production (US and/or Europe)?
>Any studies which show the extent to which this may be affected by
>third world immigration? Do different races perceive sound
>differently, and if so, could this account for differences between the
>musical traditions of various cultures? How many studio owners are
>Jewish? Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same
>name?
>Just wondering...

John,
I was going to get into a long discussion with you about what you
meant by ethnicity/race/culture, Jewish bankers, and that whole can of
worms. However, I see that this is your only post to r.a.p, so I'll
guess that it's just a TROLL.
Mike T.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 2:13:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike T. <miket@invalid.net> wrote in message news:<58hsi05oaijq0l0068122gcigv56e4h8ud@4ax.com>...
> On 26 Aug 2004 07:55:07 -0700, john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John
> Poindexter) wrote:
>
> >Are there any surveys showing the division of racial/ethnic
> >backgrounds of people involved in music production (US and/or Europe)?
> >Any studies which show the extent to which this may be affected by
> >third world immigration? Do different races perceive sound
> >differently, and if so, could this account for differences between the
> >musical traditions of various cultures? How many studio owners are
> >Jewish? Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same
> >name?
> >Just wondering...
>
> John,
> I was going to get into a long discussion with you about what you
> meant by ethnicity/race/culture, Jewish bankers, and that whole can of
> worms. However, I see that this is your only post to r.a.p, so I'll
> guess that it's just a TROLL.
> Mike T.

OK Mike, I'll come clean...
I am here, on this newsgroup, discussing this topic, because I plan to
create - through the process of eugenics - a Master Race of Sound
Engineers.
If successful, it would mark the dawn of 1000 Years of Tastefully
Mic'ed, Mixed & Mastered Music.
I was just hoping for some pointers.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 4:17:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< > >Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same name?
>
> I asked Paul Rothschild that very question when he was still alive. The
answer
> was no, he was not related to the Rothschild banking family.
>

I didn't figure he'd be working as a record producer if he was an heir
to the biggest fortune on the planet. Then again, these types of
families get their occasional rebels. Thought that he might've
rebelled and been disowned or something. >>

Rebellion or not, lots of talented folks find working to be beneficial, no
matter what their available financial resources.

stv
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 1:21:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John Poindexter wrote:

> "Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<vpoXc.252629$OB3.86191@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

>>Probably not, because "race" is a concept with little or no scientific
>>foundation.
>
>
> How do you account for the obvious physical differences between say, a
> caucasian, an asian, and a negro - if not in terms of race?

It's not that there aren't populations with common traits.

However, these things are SO loose it's virtually impossible to understand
how you could properly define them in an objective manner so that it's
possible to tell which "race" someone is a member of. For instance,
I've met "black" people whose skin is pretty light in color and
some "white" people whose skin is pretty dark. In fact, the variation
in skin tone can be so great that some "black" people lighter skin
than some "white" ones.

So, it can't be just skin color. But if it's not skin color, then what
is it? Is it the country they're from? What if you're comparing two
people whose relatives have all been in the same country for generations?
And what about the fact that all their ancestors over in the other
country all came from various places outside the country as well?

Even if you can actually come up with a standard to judge which race
someone is part of, then how can you justify that the groups you've
defined are the only right ones? Why not split the human race up by
eye color instead?

And then another difficulty: now that intermarriage between races
is no longer taboo in most places, we are mixing up the gene pool.
There will be (and in fact already are plenty of) people who don't
fit into any category. There are hundreds (or probably thousands
or even millions) of different traits that a human can have, and
soon we will have more and more different combinations than we have
previously had. Well, in a sense this has already happened because
there has always been interbreeding between difference races.

The bottom line is, to me, race only makes sense if you view it as
a social phenomenon. You have two different groups of people with
their own interests, and they interact. So, there is a need to
label people in some way so you can tell whether they're part of
your group or the other group. Physical features are the most
obvious way and most convenient way to achieve this social objective,
so whatever combination of traits that is most different between
the two groups becomes the basis for the definitions of "race"
that are formulated and applied in the given situation. But
here is the real question: if you have such a situation, and
it's ambiguous, physically, whether an individual is a member
of one race or the other, what is the tie breaker? It's what
group he's affiliated with. This belies the fact that race is
really all about an easy way to identify ethnic groups. (Ethnic
groups are groups that share a culture, or a segment of a culture.
They probably share physical traits, but they also share a language,
often a religion, social norms, rituals, traditions, etc.) Race
is a way to keep some distance between one culture and another.
In a way, it's a defense mechanism, because if you allow people
from your culture to mix with those from another, it's going to
cause your culture to change, and you might not want it to change.

So anyway, from a scientific point of view, race as a way of
understanding physical traits might have some correlation with
reality, but it's pretty laughable. And, also from a scientific
(or at least academic) point of view, there is pretty clear evidence
that race is all about cultures clashing.

At least that's what I think people mean when they say that "race"
doesn't make sense scientifically.

- Logan
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 7:40:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Poindexter" <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7c38a7a.0408262050.51270430@posting.google.com...

> In a nutshell, you seem to favor the "nurture over nature" school of
> thought over the "nature over nurture" one. Everyone is born a blank
> slate and "who we are" is largely shaped by our experiences and
> environment, rather than being programmed in our genes. You make a
> strong case for this, but is there any evidence to the contrary? For
> instance, a number of studies suggest that intelligence (as measured
> by IQ scores) is more inherited, than aquired. If that's so, how can
> we rule out the possibility that musical perception is to some extent
> passed on in the genes?

We can't rule it out completely. And I don't necessarily favor the "nurture
over nature" school on every human characteristic; that would be reductive
and nonsensical, just as "nature over nurture" on everything is. But in the
particular case of musical perception, well, the mechanism of extirpation of
neural paths is well-established; there's no question that it does happen.
And the study of prevalence of perfect pitch among certain linguistic
groups, and the lack of same in groups of identical ancestry with a
different (non-tonal) linguistic background, provides at least a strong hint
that environment is important in this regard. Not conclusive by any means,
and many characteristics involve a mix of environment and heredity. But it's
an important data point.


> Is that the book called "An Empire Of Their Own"? I've always heard
> that Walt Disney, being one of the few gentiles in Hollywood at the
> time, always had a tough time staying afloat in that industry.

He seems to have done pretty well. That book may be the one I'm remembering;
I should probably head for the library and check it out to see. (Checking
out Amazon -- yes, that's the one. "Entertaining America" looks like fun
too, but perhaps not as much an in-depth study. And both books are primarily
about Hollywood, theatre and broadcasting rather than the music industry per
se. That book apparently remains to be written.)

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 3:47:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

tarbabytunes@aol.com (TarBabyTunes) wrote in message news:<20040826201745.16669.00002767@mb-m22.aol.com>...
> << > >Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same name?
> >
> > I asked Paul Rothschild that very question when he was still alive. The
> answer
> > was no, he was not related to the Rothschild banking family.
> >
>
> I didn't figure he'd be working as a record producer if he was an heir
> to the biggest fortune on the planet. Then again, these types of
> families get their occasional rebels. Thought that he might've
> rebelled and been disowned or something. >>
>
> Rebellion or not, lots of talented folks find working to be beneficial, no
> matter what their available financial resources.

An heir to the Rothschild fortune working as a record producer would
be as anachronistic as Donald Trump flipping burgers in a roadhouse.
Doesn't mean it can't happen, it would just be really weird.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 11:56:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John Poindexter <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote:
>
>An heir to the Rothschild fortune working as a record producer would
>be as anachronistic as Donald Trump flipping burgers in a roadhouse.
>Doesn't mean it can't happen, it would just be really weird.

Hey, that's no weirder than making wine....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 12:26:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

playon <playonATcomcast.net> wrote in message news:<b9dsi0tp4jvt3s4fe7p7f0po6ivaffofnv@4ax.com>...
> All I know is Jamaicans like more bass!
>

King Tubby rules.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 10:34:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 27 Aug 2004 23:47:20 -0700, John Poindexter
<john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote:
> tarbabytunes@aol.com (TarBabyTunes) wrote in message news:<20040826201745.16669.00002767@mb-m22.aol.com>...
>> << > >Is Paul Rothschild related to the banking family of the same name?
>> >
>> > I asked Paul Rothschild that very question when he was still alive. The
>> answer
>> > was no, he was not related to the Rothschild banking family.
>> >
>>
>> I didn't figure he'd be working as a record producer if he was an heir
>> to the biggest fortune on the planet. Then again, these types of
>> families get their occasional rebels. Thought that he might've
>> rebelled and been disowned or something. >>
>>
>> Rebellion or not, lots of talented folks find working to be beneficial, no
>> matter what their available financial resources.
>
> An heir to the Rothschild fortune working as a record producer would
> be as anachronistic as Donald Trump flipping burgers in a roadhouse.
> Doesn't mean it can't happen, it would just be really weird.

You mean like Julia Louis-Dreyfus deciding to be an actor?

That's the same Dreyfus who invented commodity trading and also of
"Drefus Affair" fame, iirc.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 10:34:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" <"Charles Krug"@cdksystems.com> wrote in message news:<Ve4Yc.2898$wk1.1675@trndny07>...
> You mean like Julia Louis-Dreyfus deciding to be an actor?
>
> That's the same Dreyfus who invented commodity trading and also of
> "Drefus Affair" fame, iirc.

Even Jack Deyfuss, the "lion of Wall Street", took the time to write
a book extolling the benefits of the drug Dilantin which he is
convinced saved him from a life of paralyzing depression. I do not
believe he had any financial stake in the sale of the drug. He was
just convinced that it could save many lives.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 10:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I once worked on a magazine with an editor named Nelson Aldrich. As in
Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller; he was, in fact, a pretty close cousin. He had
all the money he'd ever need; he was working because he enjoyed the job, and
because he felt like he was contributing something useful to the community.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 5:11:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:LB4Yc.526955$Gx4.96550@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I once worked on a magazine with an editor named Nelson Aldrich. As in
> Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller; he was, in fact, a pretty close cousin. He had
> all the money he'd ever need; he was working because he enjoyed the job,
and
> because he felt like he was contributing something useful to the
community.

I agree. Even if I was independently wealthy I'd still want to do something.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 10:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On or about Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:57:25 +0000 (UTC), Andre Majorel allegedly
wrote:

> On 2004-08-26, John Poindexter <john.poindexter@wowmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Do different races perceive sound differently, and if so, could this
> > account for differences between the musical traditions of various
> > cultures?
>
> Probably not, but your native language affects the way you
> listen in a major way. The spectra vary widely from language to
> language and people tend to listen to the frequencies that their
> language uses, and use them in them music.

That's an interesting theory. Perhaps explains why east Asian people seem
to like screechy, jangly top ends. It does have a sort of similarity to
the sound of the languages from that part of the world where quite a few
are tonal and fairly high tones are required for clear contrast.

In west Africa they also seem to like a screechy top end, and a speaker
box is not complete until you have loaded it up with so many 'twitters'
that the top end is horribly distorted from loading down the amp. There
doesn't seem to be quite the same relationship with the sound of the
languages there though.


Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 10:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> Probably not, but your native language affects the way you
>> listen in a major way. The spectra vary widely from language to
>> language and people tend to listen to the frequencies that their
>> language uses, and use them in them music.

> That's an interesting theory. Perhaps explains why east Asian people
> seem to like screechy, jangly top ends. It does have a sort of similarity
> to the sound of the languages from that part of the world where quite a
> few are tonal and fairly high tones are required for clear contrast.

> In west Africa they also seem to like a screechy top end, and a speaker
> box is not complete until you have loaded it up with so many 'twitters'
> that the top end is horribly distorted from loading down the amp. There
> doesn't seem to be quite the same relationship with the sound of the
> languages there though.

When I worked in retail hi-fi sales, we sold some Mitsubishi products, including
speakers. Interestingly, the speakers had colorations similar to the timbres of
traditional Japanese musical instruments.

I don't know whether this was intentional, or because the colorations were
masked by the instrumental sounds and the designers didn't hear them.
Regardless, it suggests that those judging reproduction should use as wide a
range of instrumental sounds as possible.
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 7:00:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:<12DXc.27989$Jn5.16704@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
> John Poindexter wrote:
>
> > "Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<vpoXc.252629$OB3.86191@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> >>Probably not, because "race" is a concept with little or no scientific
> >>foundation.
> >
> >
> > How do you account for the obvious physical differences between say, a
> > caucasian, an asian, and a negro - if not in terms of race?
>
> It's not that there aren't populations with common traits.
>
> However, these things are SO loose it's virtually impossible to understand
> how you could properly define them in an objective manner so that it's
> possible to tell which "race" someone is a member of. For instance,
> I've met "black" people whose skin is pretty light in color and
> some "white" people whose skin is pretty dark. In fact, the variation
> in skin tone can be so great that some "black" people lighter skin
> than some "white" ones.
>

A painter can take two or more primary colors and mix them into a
potentially infinite number of secondary colors. The new colors
sometimes look drastically different from the "parent" colors, so much
so that, at times, it's difficult to figure out which primary colors
were used just by looking at the results. But just because the primary
colors are occasionally hard to discern doesn't mean they don't exist.
Identifying the blend of primary colors (and determining exactly what
should be considered a primary color in the first place) used to be
the province of anthropologists, until about the 1940's, when Franz
Boas and his followers began promoting the idea that races don't
exist, with much mass media support. I suspect his motives for
popularizing this concept were ideological rather than scientific (he
was affiliated with over 40 communist front organizations).
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 4:31:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message news:<10j3ndqdim7mib8@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> Probably not, but your native language affects the way you
> >> listen in a major way. The spectra vary widely from language to
> >> language and people tend to listen to the frequencies that their
> >> language uses, and use them in them music.
>
> > That's an interesting theory. Perhaps explains why east Asian people
> > seem to like screechy, jangly top ends. It does have a sort of similarity
> > to the sound of the languages from that part of the world where quite a
> > few are tonal and fairly high tones are required for clear contrast.
>
> > In west Africa they also seem to like a screechy top end, and a speaker
> > box is not complete until you have loaded it up with so many 'twitters'
> > that the top end is horribly distorted from loading down the amp. There
> > doesn't seem to be quite the same relationship with the sound of the
> > languages there though.
>
> When I worked in retail hi-fi sales, we sold some Mitsubishi products, including
> speakers. Interestingly, the speakers had colorations similar to the timbres of
> traditional Japanese musical instruments.
>
> I don't know whether this was intentional, or because the colorations were
> masked by the instrumental sounds and the designers didn't hear them.
> Regardless, it suggests that those judging reproduction should use as wide a
> range of instrumental sounds as possible.

During one of the few times I mixed a gig on Bose speakers (and this
is not meant as a Bose slam!) I noticed that voice sounded pretty good
through the system, but that saxophone did not. I surmised that the
system was *tuned* for voice via engineering, and thus sax was not as
compatible. Of course this was only my assumption. But such an
approach would make sense for many reasons: the voice is the source
with which our hearing system (ears plus brain) most easily identifies
as having problems, due mainly to being more familiar with it than
with any other source. And since most people listen to *songs* and
expect to hear the lyrics (lost cause for most rock & roll,
unfortunately <g>), Bose is aiming for the masses. The down side was
that for music where voice is not predominant, this approach yields
less than stellar results.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:29:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

karlwinkler66@yahoo.com (Karl Winkler)
wrote:


>"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message
>news:<10j3ndqdim7mib8@corp.supernews.com>...
>> >> Probably not, but your native language affects the way you
>> >> listen in a major way. The spectra vary widely from language to
>> >> language and people tend to listen to the frequencies that their
>> >> language uses, and use them in them music.
>>
>> > That's an interesting theory. Perhaps explains why east Asian people
>> > seem to like screechy, jangly top ends. It does have a sort of
>similarity
>> > to the sound of the languages from that part of the world where quite a
>> > few are tonal and fairly high tones are required for clear contrast.
>>
>> > In west Africa they also seem to like a screechy top end, and a speaker
>> > box is not complete until you have loaded it up with so many 'twitters'
>> > that the top end is horribly distorted from loading down the amp. There
>> > doesn't seem to be quite the same relationship with the sound of the
>> > languages there though.
>>
>> When I worked in retail hi-fi sales, we sold some Mitsubishi products,
>including
>> speakers. Interestingly, the speakers had colorations similar to the
>timbres of
>> traditional Japanese musical instruments.
>>
>> I don't know whether this was intentional, or because the colorations were
>> masked by the instrumental sounds and the designers didn't hear them.
>> Regardless, it suggests that those judging reproduction should use as wide
>a
>> range of instrumental sounds as possible.
>
>During one of the few times I mixed a gig on Bose speakers (and this
>is not meant as a Bose slam!) I noticed that voice sounded pretty good
>through the system, but that saxophone did not. I surmised that the
>system was *tuned* for voice via engineering, and thus sax was not as
>compatible. Of course this was only my assumption. But such an
>approach would make sense for many reasons: the voice is the source
>with which our hearing system (ears plus brain) most easily identifies
>as having problems, due mainly to being more familiar with it than
>with any other source. And since most people listen to *songs* and
>expect to hear the lyrics (lost cause for most rock & roll,
>unfortunately <g>), Bose is aiming for the masses. The down side was
>that for music where voice is not predominant, this approach yields
>less than stellar results.
>
>Karl Winkler
>Lectrosonics, Inc.
>http://www.lectrosonics.com

I can't accept the idea that your native language affects the way people
"listen" (that's a skill) but I would accept the notion that it influences
perception. For example I heard a show on "The NPR" a while ago where a
musicologist was examining why Eminem had such a profound influence on Rap
music. His interpretation was that Eminem used the even-temoered scale (like
Mozart) while the basic RAP has a base African nature. So in America Eminem
appeals to both white and black Americans greatly widening his audience.

Now for me I'm strongly attracted to Lousiana music as long as its not "Cajun"
the most part of which seems to me like off-time Polka music with French
lyrics.

Now Zydeco is magic. Same songs but ditch the tuba and fiddle, add in some
reggae and calypso and blues, make the instruments electric and energize the
behind-the-beat percussion and you have something that's really cooking.

Unfortunately it seems to translate poorly to recording. I've seen Zydeco bands
that singed my socks in person but when I buy a CD I scratch my head wondering
if this is still the same band.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 5:29:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 31 Aug 2004 01:29:18 GMT, nousaine@aol.com (Nousaine) wrote:

>I can't accept the idea that your native language affects the way people
>"listen" (that's a skill) but I would accept the notion that it influences
>perception.

I think it can influence both... syntax, grammer, etc will affect
thought process, I think that has been proven. And tonal languages
such as Chinese would train the ear in a certain way I'd be pretty
sure, it may not be an accident that many Chinese are fine classical
musicians.

Al
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:40:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040830212918.29625.00003679@mb-m16.aol.com> nousaine@aol.com writes:

> I heard a show on "The NPR" a while ago where a
> musicologist was examining why Eminem had such a profound influence on Rap
> music. His interpretation was that Eminem used the even-temoered scale (like
> Mozart) while the basic RAP has a base African nature. So in America Eminem
> appeals to both white and black Americans greatly widening his audience.

He do? They do? Certain African cultures hear the scale differently
than we do. I recorded an African guitarist who I thought had a string
out of tune. He said it was OK, that it was an "African note" but a
couple of days later after listening to the rough mix I gave him, he
concurred that his guitar was out of tune and came back to re-record
the part. The main instrumentation on the track was synthesizers
played with some pitch bend for expression "in the tradition" but
tuned to the Western scale.

I wonder if "basic RAP" would get ruined if they used AutoTune on the
vocal tracks.

> Now for me I'm strongly attracted to Lousiana music as long as its not "Cajun"

What else is there?

> Now Zydeco is magic.

Actually, Zydeco originated across the border (just barely) in Texas,
and it's Creole-based rather than Acadian French-based. I think it's
pretty boring after a couple of minutes, but it sure does get people
dancing.

> Unfortunately it seems to translate poorly to recording. I've seen Zydeco bands
> that singed my socks in person but when I buy a CD I scratch my head wondering
> if this is still the same band.

Yup, you've gotta be there, smell the beer, sweat, and peppers.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 2:31:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John Poindexter wrote:

> Is it possible that you dislike the notion of race, not because races
> don't exist, but because acknowledging them conflicts with your chosen
> ideology?

Race defines that which can breed with others of the same race. Separate
races do not intebreed. In which case, we have the human race, memebers
of which interbreed easily across ethnic lines, whereas oranges do not
not breed with apples, even though they both be fruits.

--
ha
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:21:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:31:17 GMT, "Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com>
wrote:

>
>The Beatles were the first popular music that was marketed as fashion and it
>made being a musician, engineer or producer fashionable for the very first
>time.

Elvis was a purely musical product?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:25:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 26 Aug 2004 22:13:59 -0700, john.poindexter@wowmail.com (John
Poindexter) wrote:

>OK Mike, I'll come clean...
>I am here, on this newsgroup, discussing this topic, because I plan to
>create - through the process of eugenics - a Master Race of Sound
>Engineers.
>If successful, it would mark the dawn of 1000 Years of Tastefully
>Mic'ed, Mixed & Mastered Music.
>I was just hoping for some pointers.


Couldn't you create a Master Race of Creative Musicians instead? I
can get along fine with standard-issue sound engineers. But they're
often short of anything worth engineering.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:04:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h5cbj0190e53qvsjmi90tgfdhp0fg1a2qd@4ax.com...
>
> Elvis was a purely musical product?

He was marketed using traditional music/show business channels and press.
The Beatles were marketed in the US through the fashion industry because
that's where their public relations person happened to have most of his
contacts.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:04:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You know, I would never want to disagree with Bob, but I was reading one of
Moliere's plays this morning - Popular music (that taught by 'music masters'
and performed in the houses of the genteel) was all about fashion - at least
on the part of the consumers of such things. It wasn't taught because people
wanted necessarily to learn how to play, but because it was fashionable to
have music around the house. It was so common a practice that Moliere's
satirical description of social climbers who took lessons only so that
they'd be 'in with the crowd' struck a nerve in 18th century Paris.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h5cbj0190e53qvsjmi90tgfdhp0fg1a2qd@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:31:17 GMT, "Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >The Beatles were the first popular music that was marketed as fashion and
it
> >made being a musician, engineer or producer fashionable for the very
first
> >time.
>
> Elvis was a purely musical product?
>
> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 11:11:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On or about Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:31:53 GMT, hank alrich allegedly wrote:

> John Poindexter wrote:
>
> > Is it possible that you dislike the notion of race, not because races
> > don't exist, but because acknowledging them conflicts with your chosen
> > ideology?
>
> Race defines that which can breed with others of the same race. Separate
> races do not intebreed. In which case, we have the human race, memebers
> of which interbreed easily across ethnic lines, whereas oranges do not
> not breed with apples, even though they both be fruits.

I think you meant 'species' in there a couple of times. The term 'human
race' is probably not so helpful in this discussion, as all humans are
part of the species 'homo-sapien', but there are clearly observable 'race'
differences within that species.

Different species cannot sucessfully interbreed, though between a few
similar species, you may get infertile 'mules'. Races are distinct
regional variations in populations, and can be observed in various animals
and birds as well as humans.

Races are very common in birds where a widely spread species may have
several distinct 'races' as regional populations are noticably different.
In Australia there has been a lot of work on that in recent years to
determine which variations in appearance of similar birds are simply race
differences which can interbreed freely, and which ones are separate
species, which can't interbreed successfully. Quite a few birds had their
species names changed after breeding tests.


Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)
!