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Fary Cry 64 bit - the first reason to get 64 bit Windows .

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Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:42:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)

Drool, slobber, etc.
May 10, 2005 7:42:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
>Drool, slobber, etc.

Does 64bit make it fun?
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:hai18196la175mi94bumdm6f7u7jdf0hav@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
> <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
> >
> >Drool, slobber, etc.
>
> Does 64bit make it fun?

Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
Related resources
May 10, 2005 7:42:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>> Does 64bit make it fun?
>
> Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.

I've never understood the FarCry bashing that seems to be the latest
fad. This is a high-quality game, with evolutionary advancements in engine
technology, and a decent storyline. Grow up.

rms
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 7:42:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in message
news:ZC4ge.579$1A6.371@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> >> Does 64bit make it fun?
> >
> > Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
>
> I've never understood the FarCry bashing that seems to be the latest
> fad. This is a high-quality game, with evolutionary advancements in
engine
> technology, and a decent storyline. Grow up.
>
> rms

And at a very reasonable price from launch. Among other things, it's the
non-linearism aspect. To some extent, the more you care about
non-linearism, the more you'll like Far Cry relative to other games.
>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:31:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
>Drool, slobber, etc.
>
>
>

See the following Anandtech article for a great overview with
pictures:-

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=241...

The 64-bit patches are now also available on:-

http://www.3dgamers.com/games/farcry/downloads/

Also, read the README files that come with the downloads very
carefully before installation. You can still play the 32-bit version
after the 64-bit patch, if you comply with the instructions first.....

You require the 64-bit version of Windows XP Pro, inc. drivers.......

There are 2 huge files:-

1. The AMD64 Far Cry executable upgrade ( US, UK only) 486 Mbytes
Far Cry does not require a CD in the drive after the patch... The
patch will run on Intel EM64T systems too... if you are lucky
enough to have one....

2. Enhanced graphics and added content ( inc 2 new MP levels) , only
for the 64-bit version at present -- no reason why it could not
be recompiled for the 32-bit version....It probably will after an
"64-bit exclusive" period of time. ( 422 Mbytes )

The graphical enhancements look great............significant
improvement in detail and the (already-great) draw distances, for
example.

John Lewis
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:56:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
>Drool, slobber, etc.
>
>
>


Some additional comments following my previous posting:-

Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
with dual-core just around the corner.

I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.

John Lewis
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:56:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:56:48 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
wrote:


>Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>
>Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
>surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
>Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
>with dual-core just around the corner.
>
>I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
>4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
>intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
>their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
>second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
>open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
>priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>
>John Lewis

HardOCP just did an article on running 32bit v 64bit and the game
Chronicles of Riddick comes with a 64bit executable already but there
was no performance to be gained by using it.
May 11, 2005 12:42:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Codex" <no@email.here> wrote in message
news:3c32811dhr3at0h815hmdtsahqooe0pb7q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:56:48 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>>
>>Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
>>surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
>>Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
>>with dual-core just around the corner.
>>
>>I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
>>4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
>>intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
>>their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
>>second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
>>open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
>>priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>>
>>John Lewis
>
> HardOCP just did an article on running 32bit v 64bit and the game
> Chronicles of Riddick comes with a 64bit executable already but there
> was no performance to be gained by using it.

AnandTech said they saw the same thing, too.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 1:25:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Gee, who would've figured a simplistic console shooter like Riddick wouldn't
gain w/a 64-bit executable? Clue: if the game was coded to work on a f'in
console how do you figure it's going to be CPU limited on multi-gigahertz
PC's, duh.

--
Remove nospam to email
"Codex" <no@email.here> wrote in message
news:3c32811dhr3at0h815hmdtsahqooe0pb7q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:56:48 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>>
>>Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
>>surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
>>Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
>>with dual-core just around the corner.
>>
>>I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
>>4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
>>intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
>>their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
>>second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
>>open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
>>priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>>
>>John Lewis
>
> HardOCP just did an article on running 32bit v 64bit and the game
> Chronicles of Riddick comes with a 64bit executable already but there
> was no performance to be gained by using it.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 1:34:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:32:36 -0400, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:

>

>
>And at a very reasonable price from launch. Among other things, it's the
>non-linearism aspect. To some extent, the more you care about
>non-linearism, the more you'll like Far Cry relative to other games.
>

FarCry isn't a good example of non-linearism. While it is better than some
other games (by providing alternate paths in some maps), it is still linear
where you need to do objectives with limited deviation.

Deus Ex: Invisible War is a better example - while primary objectived must
be fufilled in a specific order, there's more obvious variation in how the
game can play out (even if there isn't much of a replayability and/or
quality factor.)
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:29:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:9rl281hskcgs7bfm5takfs52uuebjft9rg@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:32:36 -0400, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
> >And at a very reasonable price from launch. Among other things, it's the
> >non-linearism aspect. To some extent, the more you care about
> >non-linearism, the more you'll like Far Cry relative to other games.
> >
>
> FarCry isn't a good example of non-linearism. While it is better than
some
> other games (by providing alternate paths in some maps), it is still
linear
> where you need to do objectives with limited deviation.

Relative to what's out there I really do think it's much less linear.
Compare it to D3 or HL2 or any of the WWII FPS games. It's non-linear in
that you can often literally take different paths to your objective, but
mostly isn't non-linear in that you have several choices on how to approach
your objective. Hopefully a few years from now it will seem linear compared
to what's out on the market, but for right now, compared to what's out
there...

>
> Deus Ex: Invisible War is a better example - while primary objectived must
> be fufilled in a specific order, there's more obvious variation in how the
> game can play out (even if there isn't much of a replayability and/or
> quality factor.)

I agree that Deus Ex was also non-linear but in a little different way. The
Hitman series, espeically the newer titles, are also good examples of
non-linear play with GTA3 being perhaps the most mentioned example.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:31:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John,

In a nutshell for those of us too lazy to check the links and get into the
techincal AI and processing stuff, what can we actually expect from the
amped up AI in real gaming terms?


"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4280fdef.3268610@news.verizon.net...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
> <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
> >
> >Drool, slobber, etc.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>
> Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
> surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
> Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
> with dual-core just around the corner.
>
> I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
> 4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
> intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
> their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
> second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
> open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
> priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>
> John Lewis
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:36:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:25:25 -0700, "Doug" <pigdos@nospamcharter.net>
wrote:

>Gee, who would've figured a simplistic console shooter like Riddick wouldn't
>gain w/a 64-bit executable? Clue: if the game was coded to work on a f'in
>console how do you figure it's going to be CPU limited on multi-gigahertz
>PC's, duh.

You think you're real bright, huh? Go back to jacking off on your
mommie's panties. It's not what you say, it's how you say it dick
cheese.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:18:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:39:40 -0700, Codex <no@email.here> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:56:48 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
>wrote:
>
>
>>Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>>
>>Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
>>surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
>>Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
>>with dual-core just around the corner.
>>
>>I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
>>4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
>>intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
>>their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
>>second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
>>open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
>>priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>>
>>John Lewis
>
>HardOCP just did an article on running 32bit v 64bit and the game
>Chronicles of Riddick comes with a 64bit executable already but there
>was no performance to be gained by using it.

True, the Anandtech article echoed HardOCP's findings. Again
the 64-bit compile of CoR was probably not optimized to take full
advantage of the CPU architectural changes in the AMD 64.

Dual (or multi-) core with multi-threading is where the real future of

3D gaming lies....regardless of bit-width.

John Lewis
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 7:45:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Cant really see the point from a gamers, rather than some marketing persons,
point of view .....
Where (if anywhere-ever) is FARCRY 2 ????
luv mouse
@@@@
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:29:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Mother Farquhar wrote:
> "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
> news:hai18196la175mi94bumdm6f7u7jdf0hav@4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
>><fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>>>
>>>Drool, slobber, etc.
>>
>>Does 64bit make it fun?
>
>
> Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
>
>

oo oo me me. Dang. I've said it all before.

the only game that amazed with gfx but totally failed to engross me. A
real snore fest.

even Unreal 2 had more going for it. And that *really* disappointed me
compared to its forerunner.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 10:57:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:

> I hope they do some Jurassic Park games with the Far Cry engine, as
in
> their first demo. After all the enemies in Far Cry were boring
humanoids
> like in HL2 all over. But image huge dinosaurs in such an
environment!
> Their AI should be possible to do with single processors as well
;) ...

I've seen screenshots a mod with a shark in it. Looked quite good,
although it was only a couple of stills.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 12:08:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:31:09 -0400, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:

>John,
>
>In a nutshell for those of us too lazy to check the links and get into the
>techincal AI and processing stuff, what can we actually expect from the
>amped up AI in real gaming terms?
>

Bots that behave a lot more like real players. "Intelligent-agent AI"
is one of the terms used. Each individual bot is
algorithmically-endowed with the capability of sensing and
appropriately reacting to its environment and the actions of live
players or other bots. Group behavior can be superimposed. Far Cry
uses this technology. The action-adventure game "Outcast" (1999) was
the first PC game to employ it. I believe that UT2004 also uses a
variant. Scripted-AI (where the bots behave in accordance with a
strict set of rules set by the programmers and are not endowed with
any individual decision-making) breaks down in wide-open spaces, or if
the live player acts in a way not expected by the programmers. In the
original Splinter-Cell, at one point early in the game the live player
can throw a tin-can loudly down a set of stairs in a
perfectly-legitimate attempt to distract the bots and sneak past a
certain point - doesn't work, the bots all suffer momentary total
deafness with ZERO reaction to the clatter of the can, because the SC
programmers apparently never expected the player to try that trick. If
Splinter-Cell had "Intelligent-agent" AI, one or more of the bots
would have investigated the noise, while others might continue to be
on their guard at a higher level of alertness...

The penalty for intelligent-AI is significant CPU compute-cycles
to execute the appropriate algorithms. Hence, the benefit of
the dual-core CPUs.

John Lewis

>"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:4280fdef.3268610@news.verizon.net...
>> On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:42:05 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
>> <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>> >
>> >Drool, slobber, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
>>
>> Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
>> surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
>> Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
>> with dual-core just around the corner.
>>
>> I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
>> 4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
>> intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
>> their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
>> second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
>> open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
>> priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
>>
>> John Lewis
>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 12:16:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 03:45:34 +0100, "trimble bracegirdle"
<newmouse@beeb.netREMOVESPAM> wrote:

>Cant really see the point from a gamers, rather than some marketing persons,
>point of view .....
>Where (if anywhere-ever) is FARCRY 2 ????

Crytek signed a development agreement with EA around the middle of
last year for a new family of action-games. Neither party is saying
anything at present . If the joint-development arrangement is as
successful as that between EA and DICE ( Battlefield series ), the
future should be very interesting. However, a game with the name
Far Cry 2 is unlikely, as I believe that the EA agreement replaced
Crytek's contract with Ubisoft. However, since EA has some interest
in acquiring Ubisoft..........

John Lewis

>luv mouse
>@@@@
>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 12:20:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote

> Does 64bit make it fun?

Obviously not, I was more referring to the GFX enhancements to an already
stunning looking game. Which of course means zip in gameplay terms.
May 11, 2005 1:48:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 2005-05-11, John Lewis <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2005 03:45:34 +0100, "trimble bracegirdle"
><newmouse@beeb.netREMOVESPAM> wrote:
>
>>Cant really see the point from a gamers, rather than some marketing persons,
>>point of view .....
>>Where (if anywhere-ever) is FARCRY 2 ????
>
> Crytek signed a development agreement with EA around the middle of
> last year for a new family of action-games. Neither party is saying
> anything at present . If the joint-development arrangement is as
> successful as that between EA and DICE ( Battlefield series ), the
> future should be very interesting. However, a game with the name
> Far Cry 2 is unlikely, as I believe that the EA agreement replaced
> Crytek's contract with Ubisoft. However, since EA has some interest
> in acquiring Ubisoft..........

So the next Far Cry is going to be based on the tropical island of Ibiza
with big-name licenced DJs, and instead of infiltrating island bases
using stealth and assault, players will be able to earn "SMG-Skill-Pointz"
and buy new hawaii shirts to customise their marine.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:28:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Whatever you do just don't start crying.

--
Remove nospam to email
"Codex" <no@email.here> wrote in message
news:8c6381th62ijbq1cgke4i9qhn52h0e31ud@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:25:25 -0700, "Doug" <pigdos@nospamcharter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Gee, who would've figured a simplistic console shooter like Riddick
>>wouldn't
>>gain w/a 64-bit executable? Clue: if the game was coded to work on a f'in
>>console how do you figure it's going to be CPU limited on multi-gigahertz
>>PC's, duh.
>
> You think you're real bright, huh? Go back to jacking off on your
> mommie's panties. It's not what you say, it's how you say it dick
> cheese.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 4:58:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:

>
> True, the Anandtech article echoed HardOCP's findings. Again
> the 64-bit compile of CoR was probably not optimized to take full
> advantage of the CPU architectural changes in the AMD 64.
>


where do you see 64 bit handling giving any performance increase in a
game that is simply recompiled for a new CPU?

Assuming fixed point arithmetic algorithms are recoded so that 2 32 bit
calcs are done in a single register operation in the core engine then
there will be improvements - until then, I expct nothing.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:02:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:31:09 -0400, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
>
>>John,
>>
>>In a nutshell for those of us too lazy to check the links and get into the
>>techincal AI and processing stuff, what can we actually expect from the
>>amped up AI in real gaming terms?
>>
>
>
> Bots that behave a lot more like real players. "Intelligent-agent AI"
> is one of the terms used. Each individual bot is
> algorithmically-endowed with the capability of sensing and
> appropriately reacting to its environment and the actions of live
> players or other bots.

<snip high brow posturing following a good laugh>

What "technology"? You have spouted a load of "nice to haves" and have
backed it up with .... nadda. You don't need a PhD in advanced bullshit
to see that anyone with an ounce of sense could come up with that rubbish.

Far Cry AI is not better than any other game : regardless of what you
say. The proof is in the pudding and I have played the damn game.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:41:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:

> Deus Ex: Invisible War is a better example - while primary objectives must
> be fullfilled in a specific order, there's more obvious variation in how

I think there are two different definitions of linearity used here: One is
that linear means there is only one way in space to reach a specific goal.
But your definition would be that there is only one order in time of doing
things right. If I had to choose I would choose the former, except for
sidequests, because otherwise it would be difficult to create a story.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:41:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0505111333500.20448@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005, Raymond Martineau wrote:
>
>> Deus Ex: Invisible War is a better example - while primary objectives
>> must
>> be fullfilled in a specific order, there's more obvious variation in how
>
> I think there are two different definitions of linearity used here: One is
> that linear means there is only one way in space to reach a specific goal.
> But your definition would be that there is only one order in time of doing
> things right. If I had to choose I would choose the former, except for
> sidequests, because otherwise it would be difficult to create a story.

Both definitions ultimately boil down to giving the player choices - the key
for me is how differentiated those choices are.

Choices of order in time can be meaningful in complex RPG type games where
doing things in a different order can mean you're doing certain missions
with different acquired skill sets, different equipment, or different
histories of interactions with NPC's, etc. Or it can be completely
meaningless like in Thief:D S (you can do the Hammerite mission first, then
Pagan mission or you can do the Pagan mission, then the Hammerite mission -
ooh, big whoop.) Dunno where Invisible War stands since I have no interest
in playing that Deus Ex imposter but even here, there's an admission of lack
of replayability here - to me, that stands as a damning statement for a game
that claims non-linearity - for me, the whole POINT of nonlinearity is
greater replayability due to the meaningful choices nonlinearity gives you.

Similarly, multiple ways in space can be good or meaningless depending on
what those choices buy you. And in Far Cry or Deus Ex, those choices do buy
you quite a lot - charging headlong into a base or sniping from cliffpoints
or stealing boats and driving them to bypass enemy camps are all very
different ways of accomplishing missions.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:41:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Similarly, multiple ways in space can be good or meaningless depending on
> what those choices buy you. And in Far Cry or Deus Ex, those choices do
buy
> you quite a lot - charging headlong into a base or sniping from
cliffpoints
> or stealing boats and driving them to bypass enemy camps are all very
> different ways of accomplishing missions.

Well said.

>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:47:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005, John Lewis wrote:

> Crytek signed a development agreement with EA around the middle of
> last year for a new family of action-games. Neither party is saying

I hope they do some Jurassic Park games with the Far Cry engine, as in
their first demo. After all the enemies in Far Cry were boring humanoids
like in HL2 all over. But image huge dinosaurs in such an environment!
Their AI should be possible to do with single processors as well ;) ...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:54:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:

> Far Cry AI is not better than any other game : regardless of what you
> say. The proof is in the pudding and I have played the damn game.

I agree with you here that I didn't notice anything special that wasn't
done in HL or NOLF. Also look at the CPU boost we got since MP bots like
the Reaper Bot in Quake and tell me, why we haven't got better AI still?
I think it is because everyone is looking at the cool graphics instead.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
May 11, 2005 5:54:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 2005-05-11, Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>> Far Cry AI is not better than any other game : regardless of what you
>> say. The proof is in the pudding and I have played the damn game.
>
> I agree with you here that I didn't notice anything special that wasn't
> done in HL or NOLF. Also look at the CPU boost we got since MP bots like
> the Reaper Bot in Quake and tell me, why we haven't got better AI still?
> I think it is because everyone is looking at the cool graphics instead.

Would be nice to have a slider setting in the game options:

eye candy AI
-------------|-----------------

So you can choose to play against "dumb blondes" or "Great
personalities".

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd83t94.2u5.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-05-11, Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 May 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
> >
> >> Far Cry AI is not better than any other game : regardless of what you
> >> say. The proof is in the pudding and I have played the damn game.
> >
> > I agree with you here that I didn't notice anything special that wasn't
> > done in HL or NOLF. Also look at the CPU boost we got since MP bots like
> > the Reaper Bot in Quake and tell me, why we haven't got better AI still?
> > I think it is because everyone is looking at the cool graphics instead.
>
> Would be nice to have a slider setting in the game options:
>
> eye candy AI
> -------------|-----------------
>
> So you can choose to play against "dumb blondes" or "Great
> personalities".

I was thinking the same thing (like BF1942). IMO FC could have done a lot
more towards AI (as I've ranted about in this group at previous times). The
"leader" player was a neat idea, the helio reinforcement was orignal and
cool, but in the end it didn't come together as much as I'd hoped.

>
> --
> Toby.
> Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
> field to circumvent my email filters.
> Ignore any mail delivery error.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 6:43:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9rl281hskcgs7bfm5takfs52uuebjft9rg@4ax.com...
>
> FarCry isn't a good example of non-linearism. While it is better than
some
> other games (by providing alternate paths in some maps), it is still
linear
> where you need to do objectives with limited deviation.
>
> Deus Ex: Invisible War is a better example - while primary objectived must
> be fufilled in a specific order, there's more obvious variation in how the
> game can play out (even if there isn't much of a replayability and/or
> quality factor.)

Not having played DE:IW (only the first DE, which I loved) I've still gotta
say, FarCry is a straight/tactical FPS, while the DE games are more RPG/FPS
hybrids, no? Thinking of non-linear FPS, Operation Flashpoint comes to my
mind first. I'd even say it had better KI than FC. Graphics are crude
compared to FC's of course.

I liked FarCry, sometimes hated it :)  - playing on realistic was so damn
hard, especially those last levels, my fault - the devs sure did a great job
for a first major work. Tone that plastic-doll look down next time, Crytek,
please.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 9:05:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1L3ge.52949$Z14.43777@news.indigo.ie...
> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
> Drool, slobber, etc.
>


Good screenshots, but it's really not enough to convince me to move to a
64-bit processor and 64-bit version of Windows. I'll jump on next year and
maybe wait for AMD to go to Socket M2. By then, I suspect I'll probably go
dual core as well depending on price.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 12:51:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1L3ge.52949$Z14.43777@news.indigo.ie...
> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
> Drool, slobber, etc.
>
>
>

Also make sure you have 64 bit Windows,64 bit video drivers, 64 bit sound
drivers,64 bit chipset drivers, and a 64 bit top of the line CPU and a $400
video card. Otherwise it'll be a slideshow.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:41:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 08:20:45 +0100, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote
>
>> Does 64bit make it fun?
>
>Obviously not, I was more referring to the GFX enhancements to an already
>stunning looking game. Which of course means zip in gameplay terms.

There were reports of being able to see a glint from enemy sniper scopes at
long range on the highest setting. This is a minor (but significant)
gameplay issue.

There might be foilage rendering that can also affect gameplay.

Other than these issues, you're basically correct.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 2:41:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 13:54:47 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 May 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>> Far Cry AI is not better than any other game : regardless of what you
>> say. The proof is in the pudding and I have played the damn game.
>
>I agree with you here that I didn't notice anything special that wasn't
>done in HL or NOLF. Also look at the CPU boost we got since MP bots like
>the Reaper Bot in Quake and tell me, why we haven't got better AI still?

It has gotten better. Not in the sense that "player or computer" alway
wins, but through general advancements that allow players of varying skills
from being satisified.

Quake/Reaper: The Reaper Bots in Quake needed their own code paths
entirely, and basically required duplicating the entire rule set. This
also resulted in "cheating" where bots were sometimes able to fire a double
shotgun at the speed of a regular shotgon. In addition, the Reaper Bots
were highly limited in what they could do - Quake imposed a maximum number
of script commands before killing the game (thus preventing long-range
pathfinding.)

Pathfinding is very simple - Bots take a shortest path approach. In
addition, the nodes need to be built manually or dynamically based on
gameplay - nether case is always beneficial.

Reaper bots only support three difficulty levels, which affect their
aiming. Their inaccurracy is artificial on a per-shot basis.

Quake 3/Base AI: Quake 3 implements supressing fire with rockets, which
sometimes nail players that blindingly persue opponents. However, initial
LOS is required to activate this feature.

UT2004/Base AI: While it is true that UT2004 could still be considred weak
in the AI department, it is a noticable improvement from Reaper bot. Here,
bots and players share the same ruleset without duplication.

Pathfinding information is improved - while waypoints can be built
automatically, it's also possible to modify the waypoint info to add
"defence" positions as well, among other things. In addition, it's now
possible to weight the pathfinding to encourage bots to take slightly
longer routes, but will attack from a flank. While this is a subtle
improvement over Reaper Bots, it's also only one step away from creating
automatic choke-point detection, and adapting play accordingly.

UT2004 bots support eight difficulty levels. Early levels are easy to
defeat, while upper difficulties usually do highly accurrate snapshots that
never miss by more than 1 degree. In addition, the pattern at which shots
miss seems to look more like re-adjustments in aim rather than a chaotic
spread.

CS:S/CS:CZ Base AI: There are reports with reaction time and aggressiveness
levels with AI players to allow for a greater ranges of AI players.

On a final note, Ill mention that it is trivial to design an AI that always
wins: just give perfect accurracy, reaction time, and have it move in a way
that makes hitting it next to impossible. Of course, you only really need
the first two in order to simulate online play.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 12:19:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:41:45 GMT, "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net>
wrote:

>>> Does 64bit make it fun?
>>
>> Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
>
> I've never understood the FarCry bashing that seems to be the latest
>fad. This is a high-quality game, with evolutionary advancements in engine
>technology, and a decent storyline. Grow up.

Yes, it's so great when I have to shoot some guy 15 times with an M-16
to drop him. Sheesh, how stupid can you get in a game that has pushes
pretentions of being semi-realistic?
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 5:50:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005, Richard Cavell wrote:

> On 11/5/05 11:57 PM, JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> > Or HL2... which had vehicles that ran 100% on rails?
>
> Well, not really.

Yeah, then about 90%. There was one valid way only ever...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
May 12, 2005 7:53:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Brad Isley" <bradisley@yahoo.comet> wrote in message
news:2di6819jliqkou1oie43m82hho9te6u7ru@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:41:45 GMT, "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Does 64bit make it fun?
>>>
>>> Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
>>
>> I've never understood the FarCry bashing that seems to be the latest
>>fad. This is a high-quality game, with evolutionary advancements in
>>engine
>>technology, and a decent storyline. Grow up.
>
> Yes, it's so great when I have to shoot some guy 15 times with an M-16
> to drop him. Sheesh, how stupid can you get in a game that has pushes
> pretentions of being semi-realistic?

One shot to the head always does it.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:30:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 11/5/05 11:57 PM, JoeSmooth wrote:

> Or HL2... which had vehicles that ran 100% on rails?

Well, not really.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:30:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5v468$4v1$2@nnrp.waia.asn.au...
> On 11/5/05 11:57 PM, JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> > Or HL2... which had vehicles that ran 100% on rails?
>
> Well, not really.
>
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:30:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Richard Cavell" <richardcavell@mail.com> wrote in message
news:D 5v468$4v1$2@nnrp.waia.asn.au...
> On 11/5/05 11:57 PM, JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> > Or HL2... which had vehicles that ran 100% on rails?
>
> Well, not really.
>

Lighten up. Your sarcasm is misplaced. Within the spirit of the exchange a
little hyperbole to make the point was totally appropriate. HL2 was far
better than MOH or COD for freedom of movement (at least you got to drive!).
In HL2 the vehicles were very cool as were the very scripted events that
occured while you rode, but again, compared to FC it was a far more linear
experience.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 12:22:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 08:19:47 -0400, Brad Isley <bradisley@yahoo.comet>
wrote:

>Yes, it's so great when I have to shoot some guy 15 times with an M-16
>to drop him. Sheesh, how stupid can you get in a game that has pushes
>pretentions of being semi-realistic?

Ever heard of gameplay?

Any other stupid pseudo-arguments?
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 3:23:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 08:19:47 -0400, Brad Isley <bradisley@yahoo.comet>
wrote:

>On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:41:45 GMT, "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>> Does 64bit make it fun?
>>>
>>> Don't know, but it was fun to begin with.
>>
>> I've never understood the FarCry bashing that seems to be the latest
>>fad. This is a high-quality game, with evolutionary advancements in engine
>>technology, and a decent storyline. Grow up.
>
>Yes, it's so great when I have to shoot some guy 15 times with an M-16
>to drop him. Sheesh, how stupid can you get in a game that has pushes
>pretentions of being semi-realistic?

Level III ballistic protection is designed to protect against rounds from
assault rifles, such as the M16. (The III specification uses a
7.62mm/.308Cal round as reference, a larger bullet than the M16.)

Level IV ballistic protection is even stronger, as it protects against
Machine gun rounds or armour piercing ammunition.

The best chance of taking out a person with this level of body armour is to
aim for the neck, head, or in a gap in the armour. Alternativly, you can
just grab an M82 (not implemented in Far Cry), which fires a .50 cal
bullet.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 4:14:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly bk039@ncf.ca (Raymond Martineau) Spake Unto All:

>Level III ballistic protection is designed to protect against rounds from
>assault rifles, such as the M16. (The III specification uses a
>7.62mm/.308Cal round as reference, a larger bullet than the M16.)
>
>Level IV ballistic protection is even stronger, as it protects against
>Machine gun rounds or armour piercing ammunition.
>
>The best chance of taking out a person with this level of body armour is to
>aim for the neck, head, or in a gap in the armour.

That level of protection is offered by steel or ceramic plates put in
pockets on the vest, protecting basically only the chest; most of the
body, e.g. the limbs, lower half of the torso, and head, are
effectively naked to high-powered ammunition.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:41:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:42815bac.1693816@news.verizon.net...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 12:39:40 -0700, Codex <no@email.here> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 10 May 2005 18:56:48 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Some additional comments following my previous posting:-
> >>
> >>Very little performance improvement with the move to 64-bit. Not
> >>surprising with a 32-bit to 64-bit conversion of an existing game.
> >>Better to put optimizing effort into future development, particularly
> >>with dual-core just around the corner.
> >>
> >>I would love to see a version of Far Cry recompiled for AMD64 2X
> >>4400+, or 4800+ dual core, with Crytek throwing all of their
> >>intelligent-AI ideas, (including any currently impractical due to
> >>their CPU-cycle consumption dragging down the frame-rate ) at the
> >>second core. Dual-core will be the key-enabler for truly-smart
> >>open-space AI in single-player games, with the AI threaded to take
> >>priority advantage of the parallel-computation capability.
> >>
> >>John Lewis
> >
> >HardOCP just did an article on running 32bit v 64bit and the game
> >Chronicles of Riddick comes with a 64bit executable already but there
> >was no performance to be gained by using it.
>
> True, the Anandtech article echoed HardOCP's findings. Again
> the 64-bit compile of CoR was probably not optimized to take full
> advantage of the CPU architectural changes in the AMD 64.
>
> Dual (or multi-) core with multi-threading is where the real future of
>
> 3D gaming lies....regardless of bit-width.
>
> John Lewis
>
>

Well, there may have been no performance increases,but the visuals were
enhanced with no loss in performance. That's not bad. AStill,not worth the
incredible PIA to switch over to 64 bit Windows.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 10:31:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1L3ge.52949$Z14.43777@news.indigo.ie...
> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>
> Drool, slobber, etc.
>

So, what happens to all the old Windows games? Will they
play under 64 bit windows, or will you have to have a multi-
boot system?
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 1:23:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:31:29 GMT, "Gregory E. Garland" <geg1@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1L3ge.52949$Z14.43777@news.indigo.ie...
>> http://tinyurl.com/cckza (link to AMD site)
>>
>> Drool, slobber, etc.
>>
>
>So, what happens to all the old Windows games?

IIRC, 16-bit applications cannot run nativly under WinXP-64. 32-bit is
fine.

The only issue is with poorly written games that are too mangled to be
fixed by the compatability administrator.

>Will they
>play under 64 bit windows, or will you have to have a multi-
>boot system?

Go ahead and multi-boot - install the game(s) in question on a FAT32
partition, and install Win98/ME, or WinXP SP2 As long as you can get a
hold of appropriate video card and audio drivers, you should have no
problem running old games, unless they refuse to run on anything newer than
3.11... :) 

As an alternative to multiboot, you could try VMWare or something similar.
It will run Windows/Dos in an internal environment without having to worry
about your original system. In addition, if something messes up in the
virtual environment, you can reset it back to a working state.
!