RE "Live" Recordings that really aren't

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s (More info?)

Though this would be better placed on the 1960's forum, I know exactly
the tricks you mean, this time on an actual album:

I have a vinyl LP of DIONNE WARWICK LIVE AT THE OLYMPIA in Paris, with
Sacha Distel, circa 1964.

It doesn't take keen ears to hear the crowd sounds being faded up and down,
in a very linear, hamfisted fashion, against what is certainly a studio
recording off the Bacharach tunes performed in French.

Dave B.


"Estelle Biziewski" <BIZOOSKY@AOL.COM> wrote in message
news:7eaf211f.0408281550.72639baa@posting.google.com...
> >There were radio stations in the mid 70's (96 Rock and/or Z93 in<
> >Atlanta) that had weekend-long "fantasy concerts" which were
> obviously<
> >the studio recordings with stadium-sized audience sounds added in. I<
> >was in high school at the time, I could hear what was going on and<
> >though it was stupid, but everyone I knew apparently believed it was<
> >real and thought it was great.<
>
> The old "99X" (WXLO 98.7 FM) in New York City did the same thing back
> in 1977 or '78. At first I thought it was a real "super concert" until
> I heard "Oh Well" by Fleetwood Mac - with Peter Green singing. Even I,
> at 12 or 13, knew that he was supposedly too out-of-touch at the time
> to perform at a huge "festival" like that, so that's when I realized
> it was bogus. I don't think any stations could get away with those
> sorts of stunts today without being sued.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s (More info?)

"Estelle Biziewski" <BIZOOSKY@AOL.COM> wrote in message
news:7eaf211f.0408281550.72639baa@posting.google.com...
> >There were radio stations in the mid 70's (96 Rock and/or Z93 in<
> >Atlanta) that had weekend-long "fantasy concerts" which were
> obviously<
> >the studio recordings with stadium-sized audience sounds added in. I<
> >was in high school at the time, I could hear what was going on and<
> >though it was stupid, but everyone I knew apparently believed it was<
> >real and thought it was great.<
>
> The old "99X" (WXLO 98.7 FM) in New York City did the same thing back
> in 1977 or '78. At first I thought it was a real "super concert" until
> I heard "Oh Well" by Fleetwood Mac - with Peter Green singing. Even I,
> at 12 or 13, knew that he was supposedly too out-of-touch at the time
> to perform at a huge "festival" like that, so that's when I realized
> it was bogus. I don't think any stations could get away with those
> sorts of stunts today without being sued.

in radio its called "Theatre of the Mind". sadly the ingredients that are
needed to create outstanding programming are draining away from the
broadcast field. there are many fine producers / production directors but
when one company owns the majority of formats in a market there is no (well
less) incentive for any one station to excel.
in addition the "production guy" has 4 to 8 (or maybe more) stations to
oversee. its all he (or she) can do to get the spots on the air.
consequently there just isn't time to get the "creative juices" flowing past
the point of selecting which music bed to put under the Joes Car Lot copy.

broadcasters, in general, are careful to not "break the faith" of their
listeners. they have to consistently make good on promotions and contests or
many listeners will turn elsewhere for their entertainment.
this would translate into loss of revenue.

of course the above is not true in every case, its just my observation of
things in general access the face of US radio broadcasting.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" basically kept the drums and replaced
everything else - might even have used crowd from "Frampton Comes Alive"
(someone did, i thought it might be this record)

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040829183700.03961.00003080@mb-m19.aol.com>,
kevinhalpin57@aol.com (KevinHalpin57) wrote:

> Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" basically kept the drums and replaced
> everything else - might even have used crowd from "Frampton Comes Alive"
> (someone did, i thought it might be this record)

Go to

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threa...
522%40news.mindspring.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drec.audio.pro%2BLive%
2Brecordings%2Bthat%2Breally%2Baren%27t%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DG
oogle%2BSearch

or

http://tinyurl.com/6wohl

for a 2 year ago deja vu of this very same thread (seemingly started by
the same person with the same post).

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

BIZOOSKY@AOL.COM (Estelle Biziewski) wrote in message news:<7eaf211f.0408281550.72639baa@posting.google.com>...
> >There were radio stations in the mid 70's (96 Rock and/or Z93 in<
> >Atlanta) that had weekend-long "fantasy concerts" which were
> obviously<
> >the studio recordings with stadium-sized audience sounds added in. I<
> >was in high school at the time, I could hear what was going on and<
> >though it was stupid, but everyone I knew apparently believed it was<
> >real and thought it was great.<
>
> The old "99X" (WXLO 98.7 FM) in New York City did the same thing back
> in 1977 or '78. At first I thought it was a real "super concert" until
> I heard "Oh Well" by Fleetwood Mac - with Peter Green singing. Even I,
> at 12 or 13, knew that he was supposedly too out-of-touch at the time
> to perform at a huge "festival" like that, so that's when I realized
> it was bogus. I don't think any stations could get away with those
> sorts of stunts today without being sued.

A guitar player friend of mine was learning "Baby I Love Your Way" for
his cover band. Him and another band member spent a lot of time
figuring it out from the live album and got it pretty close.

Then the guitar player bought the DVD and found out that Frampton
played it totally different on there....Capo'd instead of not Capo'd
for starters.

He said the DVD version doesn't sound remotely like the live version,
being capo'd it's a good bit thinner and the chords are not quite the
same.

So it sure sounds like overdub city to me....oh well it worked and
sold a bazillion copies didn't it?

Analogeezer

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ralph Barone" <this_is_not_valid@shau.ca> wrote in message
news:this_is_not_valid-7D8077.20543730082004@shawnews.vw.shawcable.net...
> In article <20040829183700.03961.00003080@mb-m19.aol.com>,
> kevinhalpin57@aol.com (KevinHalpin57) wrote:
>
> > Thin Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" basically kept the drums and replaced
> > everything else - might even have used crowd from "Frampton Comes Alive"
> > (someone did, i thought it might be this record)
>
> Go to
>
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threa...
> 522%40news.mindspring.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drec.audio.pro%2BLive%
> 2Brecordings%2Bthat%2Breally%2Baren%27t%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DG
> oogle%2BSearch
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6wohl
>
> for a 2 year ago deja vu of this very same thread (seemingly started by
> the same person with the same post).

It should obvious what the problem is. "Non-live" live recordings only
became a problem once the ability to make "stars" out of non-musical people
became available. If they could really pull it off live they would have
never needed the studio tricks (for the studio album) to begin with. So it's
a bit of the "chicken or the egg" argument.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s (More info?)

In rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s
-0700, BIZOOSKY@AOL.COM (Estelle Biziewski) wrote:

>>There were radio stations in the mid 70's (96 Rock and/or Z93 in<
>>Atlanta) that had weekend-long "fantasy concerts" which were
>obviously<
>>the studio recordings with stadium-sized audience sounds added in. I<
>>was in high school at the time, I could hear what was going on and<
>>though it was stupid, but everyone I knew apparently believed it was<
>>real and thought it was great.<

I was also in high school at the time, listening to Z93 and the
then-new 96 Rock, and I also could hear that it was fake and thought
it was stupid, and couldn't believe it when I saw others excited about
it. When a group performs live, there's always SOMETHING different
from the studio recording, the singer does a phrase slightly
differently, it's usually several somethings that give a clue that
it's a different performance than the one I'd already heard a million
times on the radio.

>The old "99X" (WXLO 98.7 FM) in New York City did the same thing back
>in 1977 or '78. At first I thought it was a real "super concert" until
>I heard "Oh Well" by Fleetwood Mac - with Peter Green singing. Even I,
>at 12 or 13, knew that he was supposedly too out-of-touch at the time
>to perform at a huge "festival" like that, so that's when I realized
>it was bogus. I don't think any stations could get away with those
>sorts of stunts today without being sued.

I have a Kingsmen "Live Recording" LP that had the original
recording of Louie Louie (my apologies, this is OT for the 1970s group
  )with crowd noises dubbed. I thought it was a great thift store
find, but I was quite dissapointed when I first played it.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:47:50 -0400, Ben Bradley wrote
(in article <1hhij057p23eanp7jdea8dfer2u40n1i9j@4ax.com>):

> In rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s
> -0700, BIZOOSKY@AOL.COM (Estelle Biziewski) wrote:
>
>>> There were radio stations in the mid 70's (96 Rock and/or Z93 in<
>>> Atlanta) that had weekend-long "fantasy concerts" which were
>> obviously<
>>> the studio recordings with stadium-sized audience sounds added in. I<
>>> was in high school at the time, I could hear what was going on and<
>>> though it was stupid, but everyone I knew apparently believed it was<
>>> real and thought it was great.<
>
> I was also in high school at the time, listening to Z93 and the
> then-new 96 Rock, and I also could hear that it was fake and thought
> it was stupid, and couldn't believe it when I saw others excited about
> it. When a group performs live, there's always SOMETHING different
> from the studio recording, the singer does a phrase slightly
> differently, it's usually several somethings that give a clue that
> it's a different performance than the one I'd already heard a million
> times on the radio.
>

Having worked in album rock in the 70s and 80s, I can verify that some
stations used this technique to "repackage" their somewhat slim playlist.
Like "two-fer Tuesdays", It was just another way to keep shoving the same 250
(or less) songs down the throats of the listeners. Most of the time, they
really liked it.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.music.fleetwood-mac,rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1970s (More info?)

Bringing this back round to topic, is it just me who thinks that
"Bleed to Love Her" and "TEmporary One" on The Dance sound like mimed
studio performances? Okay, BTLH would have to be an alternate version
to the one on Say You Will, but if you listen carefully, there's a
definite "switch" in sound quality on these tracks.

I hope its not the case. I hope Im just being over-cynical. But I
often wonder.