Can't partition my new drive :(

Just put together a new system:

XP1800+
MSI 745 Ultra
WD 80 gig w/ 8 meg cache
Liteon 40x12x48 CDRW

Set the HDD to master and CDRW to slave (they came that way actually) and installed them in the case. The CDRW is hooked up to the top, or end IDE connector, and the HDD is connected to the middle one. Other end is connected to the mobo of course, in IDE slot 1 (primary). Connected the PSU to both and even put the audio cable from the CDRW to the mobo (haven't installed my sound card yet).

So... I should have everything connected right? Well on boot up from a floppy, DOS can't detect my CDRW, and when it starts it creates a C drive as MS-RAMDRIVE. I assume this is a temporary drive using my ram? So I'm not sure if its detecting the HDD.

When I do FDISK, it reads the HDD (I think) but it only comes back w/ about 11000 mbytes (11 gigs) as available to partition, instead of around 80. I set my partition, I've tried various sizes from 500 mb to 5 gigs) make it primary, and everything seems to work cuz it completes and says I must reboot to format the newly created drive/partition.

But when I reboot the partition is gone. I do format c: /s and it says "Format not supported on drive c: format terminated". I then check the DIR on c: and its the MS-RAMDRIVE again!

Help!

-
Cheap memory: $26
Unstable OS: $95
Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless
17 answers Last reply
More about partition drive
  1. Also, when I go into the BIOS, it says

    Primary IDE: Not installed
    Secondary IDE: $#^$#*
    (a bunch of characters, very strange!)

    So it seems it can't detect my IDE devices, but it still lets me partition the HDD??

    -
    Cheap memory: $26
    Unstable OS: $95
    Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless
  2. Double check cables jumpers, check them again, and once more for luck. :smile:

    Best to delete any existing partitions next time you go into Fdisk. Just lose the lot and start over. When you're in DOS, Ramdrive occupies the C: place. Your primary partition should be D:

    Are you setting your primary partition as active?

    <b><font color=blue>~ Gotta question? Tried searching the boards first? Good! Ask away! ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
  3. You have your devices reversed on the cable.

    The hard drive should be jumpered as the Master, and placed on the end of the IDE cable ... not the middle connector. The CD-RW should also be jumpered as a Master, placed on a separate cable, and connected to the Secondary IDE Controller slot.

    Both cables, for best performance, should be ATA-66/100 cables, and the blue end of the IDE cable connector goes into the mainboard slot.

    After you make the changes, redetect the devices in the BIOS, and save the changes.

    When booting from a floppy, the A: drive must be selected as the first bootable device.

    I highly suggest that you make an attempt to read through your mainboard manual before continuing with your assembly of the new system ... and <i>before</i> you make a critical error. Rule Of Thumb: When all else fails; read the directions.

    <A HREF="http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/manual/mnu/spt_mnu_detail.php?UID=13 &NAME=MS-6561" target="_new">745 Ultra User Manual Download</A>

    If you are about to install Win2K or WinXP, it is advisable to update the BIOS before installing an operating system:

    <A HREF="http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/manual/mnu/spt_mnu_detail.php?UID=13 &NAME=MS-6561" target="_new">745 Ultra BIOS Updates</A>

    <A HREF="http://www.msi.com.tw/html/support/liveupdate/main.htm" target="_new">Live Update 2</A>

    Please follow the insstructions carefully when updating the BIOS, and <i>always</i> save the old BIOS during the procedure.

    If you are installing Win9x, it is correct to use the /s switch when formatting the system partition. But this switch should be eliminated when installing Win2K and WinXP.

    Toejam31

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
    <font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
    __________________________________________________________

    <font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
  4. if jumpers and cables are all good then no clue why it show less than what you got, you can try booting up with the new drive's floppy in the drive and use their format/partition software. New drives need to be partition/formated anyway.

    <font color=red>Got a silent setup, now I can hear myself thinking.... great silence</font color=red>
  5. Quote:

    The hard drive should be jumpered as the Master, and placed on the end of the IDE cable ... not the middle connector. The CD-RW should also be jumpered as a Master, placed on a separate cable, and connected to the Secondary IDE Controller slot.

    At the moment I just have the 1 IDE cable. I will probably get some round cables, 2 IDE and 1 FDD, so I can set up like you said (was thinking the same thing, I have the second IDE slot, might as well use it), but for the moment I'd like to get in running with just 1 IDE cable, since I am waiting for newegg to get something else in stock before I order.

    So with one cable, does the HDD go on the middle connector? That's how it shows in the diagram from Liteon. The HDD came with no docs, and the mobo guide didn't say one way of the other. Trust me I read the mobo user guide COVER TO COVER before I even opened the static packaging. I know I am a newb and I dind't want to make any fatal mistakes. Sadly, the MSI guide didn't say much about hooking up other components, though.

    camieabz, yes I set primary partition as active before exiting FDISK. Isn't it strange that only 11 gigs was available?

    thanks so much for your help so far guys!

    -
    Cheap memory: $26
    Unstable OS: $95
    Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endless_n00b on 08/15/02 01:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  6. Put the blue connector in the mobo. Put the HDD on the other end. Put the CDRW on the middle.

    Master to end, slave to middle.

    <b><font color=blue>~ Gotta question? Tried searching the boards first? Good! Ask away! ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
  7. Slave in the middle?! Aarrrrggggg I'm gonna kill Liteon!! Their documentation is dead wrong.

    thanks, I'll switch it tonight when I get home.

    -
    Cheap memory: $26
    Unstable OS: $95
    Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless
  8. You got a scanner? Scan the bit you read. Be nice to see.

    <b><font color=blue>~ Gotta question? Tried searching the boards first? Good! Ask away! ~<font color=blue></b> :wink:
  9. If you are using cable select on both drives then, yes, the end is master and the middle is slave, but with them set manually to master and slave you shouldn't have any problems putting the master in the middle. I'm running one like that right now.

    My first suggestion would be to have just the harddrive on the cable by itself and see if you can get your partitioning done. That will tell you if your motherboard has a problem with the drive or not. If you can get that to work, then start trying to get the two to work together.

    And two cables is deffinately the way to go. Borrow one from a friend or something until your round ones come in.
  10. Quote:
    When I do FDISK, it reads the HDD (I think) but it only comes back w/ about 11000 mbytes (11 gigs) as available to partition, instead of around 80.

    It seems like you were using Win98's FDisk which is defective when detecting bigger hard disks (>64GB). There is a fix available at <b><A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q263044" target="_new"><font color=red>Microsoft</A></b></font color=red>.

    :smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
  11. heh
    for optimal performance though i suggest one drvice per cable :smile:

    better for fast cd burning especially.

    <b>P4 'Wilty' Celleron 1.7, 128Mb PC100 Cas3 SDRAM, 5400rpm HDD, Integrated everything. YUM!<b>
  12. you were right, it was cable select. I had it jumpered as master but as cable select master. I swithed it to Dual Master (I had no idea there were 2 Master settings) and it worked! Master in the middle slave on the end. FDISK and format now worked w/ no problem. kewl :)

    Now I'm installing XP Pro and it gets to the point where its copying files but then I keep getting a Blue screen with PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA error. Does anyone know why this is?

    I have updated to the latest BIOS btw, v1.5 on my MSI 745 Ultra.

    thanks again!

    -
    Cheap memory: $26
    Unstable OS: $95
    Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless
  13. Blue screens during install are usually a sign of bad ram, or if you are using 2 sticks of ram take one out and try.

    At least that is the only time I have gotten blue screens during an install. It was win2k.

    Yeah, those WD drives are tricky. They have a "Master Only" and a "Master with Slave" option.
  14. heh, yeah I know, its even in my sig ;) although Mushkin is hardly cheap!

    While I can't rule it out, I don't think its my RAM, I'm afraid it may be my cache memory (ie mobo). I disabled it in the BIOS and the install ALMOST completed, got much further before getting an error. I started a <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=520029#520029" target="_new">thread</A> in the mobo section asking about it.

    -
    Cheap memory: $26
    Unstable OS: $95
    Your boss getting the BSOD late on a Friday: Priceless
  15. Quote:
    The hard drive should be jumpered as the Master, and placed on the end of the IDE cable ... not the middle connector

    There is really no need to set the master in the end of the cable when you also have a slave. Only in the case where you have a stand-alone master (no slave) it should be connected to the end of the cable.
  16. I'm sorry, good sir, but you are partially incorrect in this assessment.

    It is not a good idea to connect a single drive to the middle connector on a ribbon cable, because the "stub" of an unconnected cable can cause signaling problems. In addition, the use of Ultra DMA is not supported in such a configuration. With Ultra DMA this "stub" connection is not just "not recommended", it is <i>illegal</i>: a single device must be at the end of the cable. The other reason is that since these cables support cable select inherently, the position of each drive on the cable matters if cable select is being used. With these two needs combined, it just made sense to design the cable so that drive positioning was explicitly clear.

    This is especially applicable with the newer 80-wire ATA/66-100 cables which are color-coded, with each color defining specific roles on the cable. This is why the blue end of this kind of cable must be attached to the host (mainboard or controller).

    Even with an older 40-wire IDE cable, if a single device is used, it should be attached to the connector at the end of the cable, and the connector in the middle of the cable left unattached. Using the middle connector and leaving the end connector unattached is <i>technically</i> allowed for regular PIO and DMA transfer modes, but leaves part of the cable dangling. This stub creates much worse electrical characteristics on the cable, due to reflections from the unterminated ends of the cable wires.

    In a situation where two drives are jumpered as cable select, wire #28 of the IDE cable carries what is called a CSEL signal. This is grounded at the host's connector. On a cable select cable, one of the connectors (the master connector) has pin #28 connected through to the cable, but the other (the slave connector) has an open circuit on that pin (no connection). When both drives on the channel are set as cable select, here's what happens:

    <b>Master</b>: The device that is attached to the "master connector" sees the CSEL signal as grounded, because its connector has pin #28 attached to the cable, and the host's connector has that signal grounded. Seeing the "zero value" (grounded), the device sets itself to operate as master (device 0).

    <b>Slave</b>: The drive that is attached to the "slave connector" does not see the CSEL signal as grounded, because its connector is not attached to the CSEL signal on the cable. Seeing this "no connection", the device configures itself as a slave (device 1).

    If you switch the devices between the two connectors, they swap configuration, the master becoming the slave and vice-versa. Not a very complicated arrangement, and a good idea, it would seem. In fact, if cable select had actually caught on, it would have been great. The problem is that it has never been widely used, and this lack of universality has made cable select unattractive, which is a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. Since cable select was never accepted in the industry, most drives come, by default, with the drive jumpered as a master or as a single drive. This means that to enable cable select, you have to change a jumper anyway, which obviously negates some of the advantage.

    But the biggest reason why cable select never caught on was the cable itself. From the very beginning, all 40-conductor IDE/ATA cables should have been made so that they would work with cable select. There's actually no need to have different cable types, because if you set a drive to master or slave explicitly, it just ignores the CSEL setting. So a cable select cable can be used either way: regular jumpering or cable select.

    Unfortunately, regular 40-conductor IDE/ATA cables don't support cable select.

    So to use cable select you need a special cable, and these are of course non-standard, making them a special purchase. Also, many people don't understand cable select, nor do they realize it needs a special cable. If you set both drives to "CS" and then use them on a regular (non-cable-select) IDE cable, both drives will configure themselves as "master", causing a configuration conflict.

    Making matters worse, the 40-conductor IDE/ATA cable select cables have the "master connector" as the middle device and the "slave connector" as the device at the end of the cable, farthest from the host. For signaling reasons, it's best to put a single drive at the end of a cable, not put it in the middle leaving a stub of wire hanging off the end of the channel. But if you do this, that single drive sets itself as a slave with no master, a technically illegal configuration. Worse, suppose you do this, and your hard disk sets itself as a slave, and the system boots from it without problems, as most would. Then, you decide to add a new hard disk. You set it to cable select and attach it to the middle connector. The new drive then becomes the master, and thus moves ahead of the old drive in precedence! The system will try to boot from it instead of your old drive (which some people might want, but most don't.)

    To get around this problem, a second type of 40-wire cable select cable was created, the so-called "Y-shaped" cable. On this one, the connector to the system is in the middle, and the slave and master connectors are on the two opposite ends of the cable. This certainly makes things less confusing, but has its own difficulties. For starters, IDE/ATA cables are very limited in length, which means this "Y-shaped" cable was hard to use in large tower systems. All your drives had to be mounted very close to the motherboard or controller card so the cable would reach. And again, the cable was a special item.

    As you can see, the traditional way of doing cable select was a total mess, which was why it was never widely adopted. The key reason for this mess was ... once again ... lack of standardization. However, when the 80-conductor Ultra DMA cable was introduced, the cable select feature was much improved, changing the potential of this feature. The two key changes were:

    <b>Drive Position</b>: Unlike the old cables, with the 80-conductor cable, the master connector is at the end of the cable, and the slave is in the middle. As I explained above, this is a much more sensible arrangement, since a single drive placed at the end of the cable will be a master, and a second drive added in the middle a slave.

    <b>Universality</b>: All 80-conductor IDE/ATA cables support cable select (or at least, all of the ones that are built to meet the ATA standards). This means there's no confusion over what cables support the feature, and no need for strange "Y-cables" and other non-standard solutions.

    These two changes mean a world of difference for the future of cable select. Since these cables will eventually completely replace all of the 40-conductor cables, all systems will be capable of running cable select without any special hardware being needed. As I mentioned before, you can still explicitly set drives to master or slave if you want to, and the CSEL signal will be ignored by the drives. So the bottom line is that these cables work either way, cable select or not.

    Note: 80-conductor IDE/ATA cables are often said to be compatible with 40-conductor cables. That's true of normal 40-conductor cables with drives jumpered as master and slave, but not cable select cables. If you swap a regular (non-"Y-shaped") 40-conductor cable select cable with an 80-conductor IDE cable, the master and slave drives will swap logical positions. If you don't that to happen, you'll need to change the order that the devices connect to the cable.

    As a final comment, I must mention that in many given situations, I have encountered the inability of the system BIOS to correctly identify a device jumpered as a master when attached to the slave connector. That in itself in more than enough reason to always connect a single device to the end of an IDE cable.

    See ya!

    Toejam31

    <font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
    <font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
    __________________________________________________________

    <font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
  17. Quote:
    I'm sorry, good sir, but you are partially incorrect in this assessment.
    It is not a good idea to connect a single drive to the middle connector on a ribbon cable

    As I said: "There is really no need to set the master in the end of the cable when you ALSO have a slave". We agree that it is correct that the drive must be connected in the end of the cable if its a single drive.
    Quote:
    This is why the blue end of this kind of cable must be attached to the host (mainboard or controller).

    Actually the real reason for the blue connector is that the -PDIAG signal is NOT connected to the mainboard. It only connects the two drives. The reason for this is that the mainboard by checking the -PDIAG pin can destinguish between 40 and 80 wire cables. Yes, Ive read the specification too and develloped both hardware and software for ATA drives, so I know.
    Quote:
    Unfortunately, regular 40-conductor IDE/ATA cables don't support cable select.

    Well I guess it depends on who you ask. I have several 40 wire cables which I consider regular, and they support cable select. But there are a lot of 40 wire cables that dont support CS.
    Quote:
    But if you do this, that single drive sets itself as a slave with no master, a technically illegal configuration.

    No, not illegal. The ATA specifications clearly explains how slave only configuration must work.
    Quote:
    To get around this problem, a second type of 40-wire cable select cable was created, the so-called "Y-shaped" cable

    I dont see how the Y-cable solves that problem. I would speculate the the Y-cable only has a slight advantage over the 'normal' if both drives are connected. If not, reflections would be worse, since the length of each part of the Y is longer than the distance between the drive connectors for a normal cable.
    Quote:
    I have encountered the inability of the system BIOS to correctly identify a device jumpered as a master when attached to the slave connector

    I really find that hard to believe, since (as you pointed out yourself numerous times) it is the DRIVE that ignores the cable select pin if explicitly jumpered to master or slave (as it should). It is not the BIOSs inability to recognise the drive, this is just not possible. If the BIOS dont see the drive, its because the drive is not ATA compliant and wont initialise if its jumpered as master and CSEL is disconnected. In that case no BIOS will be able to see the drive.
    When cable select was unpopular and the ATA specification was in a state of frequent changes such non-compliant drives existed. But today it is completely impossible to find such drives especially because of the definition of the 80 wire cable.
Ask a new question

Read More

Hard Drives Storage