Reel to reel plays backwards

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I would simply wind the tape on an empty spool, flip it, place the full
spool on the left reel table and then play it back...

Sounds like the tapes were stored "Tail-Out"...

JP

"Martin Lindsay" <m.lindsayNOSPAM@virgin.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:C8rYc.225$x%6.53@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi. Apologies if this "antique" problem is outside the scope of this
> newsgroup but people seem pretty clued up in here. My dad has quite a few
> old reel to reel tapes recorded on a 1960's Grundig Valve reel to reel.
This
> original machine expired a while back but we managed to get our hands on
an
> identical one via ebay recently. It needed a new capstan drive belt, so we
> replaced this, spooled up one of the old tapes and hit play. The sound is
> coming out of only one speaker and backwards. The other channel may have a
> blown valve or something - i'll have to look a bit further inside the
> chassis to check that but the backwards playback seems to be a fundamental
> problem to fix.
> As I say, the record and playback machines are identical models so there
is
> no chance of 2 track/4 track incompatabilities. The machine records on 2
> tracks, you can flip the tape over and record on the other side if you
> select mono recording but you cannot flip the tape if recording in stereo
> because both tracks are laid down by using up the entire width of the
tape.
> I realise that I could record the tapes via my soundcard and then flip the
> recording with a sound editing package - I do intend to archive the
> recordings off to CD - but it would be nice to have this old unit working
> properly again. Would swopping the pair of leads over that come from the
> playback head get the results I want? I don't see why i should need to do
> this but who can tell if someone has messed with the machine in the past.
I
> was hoping to be able to play these old tapes without difficulty.
> Many thanks to anyone who could shed some light.
>
> Please remove NOSPAM to reply
>
> Martin Lindsay.
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>"Martin Lindsay" <m.lindsayNOSPAM@virgin.net> a écrit dans le message de
>news:C8rYc.225$x%6.53@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
>> Hi. Apologies if this "antique" problem is outside the scope of this
>> newsgroup but people seem pretty clued up in here. My dad has quite a few
>> old reel to reel tapes recorded on a 1960's Grundig Valve reel to reel.
>This
>> original machine expired a while back but we managed to get our hands on
>an
>> identical one via ebay recently. It needed a new capstan drive belt, so we
>> replaced this, spooled up one of the old tapes and hit play. The sound is
>> coming out of only one speaker and backwards. The other channel may have a
>> blown valve or something - i'll have to look a bit further inside the
>> chassis to check that but the backwards playback seems to be a fundamental
>> problem to fix.
>> As I say, the record and playback machines are identical models so there
>is
>> no chance of 2 track/4 track incompatabilities. The machine records on 2
>> tracks, you can flip the tape over and record on the other side if you
>> select mono recording but you cannot flip the tape if recording in stereo
>> because both tracks are laid down by using up the entire width of the
>tape.

Are you sure? Because this would be a quarter track machine. What you
describe is exactly what would result from playing half-track tapes (wound
tails-out) on a quarter-track machine.

Are you absolutely sure your father's machine was a quarter-track machine
and not a half-track machine? Many of these machines could be ordered with
different head stacks... for example, the Tandberg 62 was a half-track
machine but the Tandberg 64 was the same machine with quarter-track heads.

You can spray magnetic visualization fluid (Magna-See) on the tape to see
just what the original head configuration they were recorded with actually
was.

>> I realise that I could record the tapes via my soundcard and then flip the
>> recording with a sound editing package - I do intend to archive the
>> recordings off to CD - but it would be nice to have this old unit working
>> properly again. Would swopping the pair of leads over that come from the
>> playback head get the results I want? I don't see why i should need to do
>> this but who can tell if someone has messed with the machine in the past.

No. The tape is not travelling in the correct direction. If you have the
supply reel on the left and it is going to the take-up reel on the right
and it is backwards, then you have a tape that is wound tails-out and must
be rewound before use. This is something that is only done to half-track
tapes.

>I
>> was hoping to be able to play these old tapes without difficulty.
>> Many thanks to anyone who could shed some light.

Do you actually remember your father using "both sides" of the tape? The
less likely possibility is that your playback machine has horribly misaligned
heads.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mackerr@aol.compost (MacKerr) writes:
>
>I have also heard anacdotal evidence that there is less
>print through with tail out storage, but it seems to me that print through is
>print through no matter which way the tape is wound.
>

What I read 25 or so years ago is that the print-through is more
tolerable to the ear when the tape is stored tails out. When
played back, the print through sounds like a faint echo after
the sound rather than "pre-echo" just before the sound.

When stored heads out, the print through is especially noticable
on plucked or percussive instruments played against a silent back-
ground, since the "pre-echo" would be loudest in the silence just
before the instrument is played.

-Greg
--
::::::::::::: Greg Andrews ::::: gerg@panix.com :::::::::::::
The light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If it's 1/4 track tape as suggested by the original poser, there is no tails
out unless you only record on one side.....

Rgds:
Eric


"MacKerr" <mackerr@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040829210114.24956.00001552@mb-m20.aol.com...
> gerg responded:
> << mackerr@aol.compost (MacKerr) writes:
> >
> >I have also heard anacdotal evidence that there is less
> >print through with tail out storage, but it seems to me that print
through is
> >print through no matter which way the tape is wound.
> >
>
> What I read 25 or so years ago is that the print-through is more
> tolerable to the ear when the tape is stored tails out. When
> played back, the print through sounds like a faint echo after
> the sound rather than "pre-echo" just before the sound.
>
> When stored heads out, the print through is especially noticable
> on plucked or percussive instruments played against a silent back-
> ground, since the "pre-echo" would be loudest in the silence just
> before the instrument is played.
>
> -Greg >>

>
> While I can't disagree that print through in the silence before music is
worse
> than after, since print through will happen 1 circumference of the reel of
tape
> away from the sound causing the print through it seems arbitrary to me to
think
> it will be less in any particular direction.
>
> mac
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler:<<
It is. But the explanation I was given early in life was that the worst
print-through when the tape is wound tail-out is post-echo, whereas the worst
print-through when the tape is tail-in is pre-echo, which is more audible and
annoying. Also, the smoother wind is supposedly less likely to produce
print-through to begin with, but that strikes me as iffy.

Peace,
Paul >>

I don't think the smoother wind has anything to do with print through, it has
to do with less damage to the tape edges, and less stretching tension. My point
about print through is that it is totally dependent on where on the reel of
tape you are and what the program material is. It is totally arbitrary how the
tape layers match up (on any given reel it will be close to the same each
time). So whether an impulse signal lines up before or after a quiet passage on
an adjacent layer of tape cannot easily be predetermined.

Mac Kerr

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <UL3Zc.198$dm5.53@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> m.lindsayNOSPAM@virgin.net writes:

> I'll have to try and strip the chassis out of its case and see if I can get
> to the mono/stereo switch.

Is the switch broken? I would expect it to be on the outside of the
case.

I suspect that this switch only has to do with recording, turning off
the second channel's record and erase current when you're recording in
mono. The only thing it could be doing as far as playback is sending
one track to both channel outputs.

I suspect that your "backwards" playback problem is either that the
heads don't match up between the recording and playback, or that you
simply have threaded the tape backwards and upside-down. On old, brown
oxide tape, the dull side goes against the heads. On newer back-coated
black oxide tape, the dull side is the backing. The shiny side goes
against the heads.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo