Quake IV announced for Xbox 360

[Guest]

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So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
$400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more) in
it already?


Posted on Monday, May 16 @ 10:59:24 PDT
id Software announced today that it is bringing QUAKE 4 to the Xbox
360. Currently in development by Raven Software in cooperation with id
Software, the game will be debuted at the E3 Expo in Activision's booth
#1224 in the South Hall on May 18 at the Los Angeles Convention Center.

 

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arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
> So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
> $400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
> Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more)
> in it already?


If you already have a computer that will play Doom 3 it will most likely
play Quake IV. Plus the price of the 360 has not been set yet so it could be
more than $300.

 

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On Mon, 16 May 2005 18:12:48 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

>arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
>> So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
>> $400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
>> Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more)
>> in it already?
>
>
>If you already have a computer that will play Doom 3 it will most likely
>play Quake IV. Plus the price of the 360 has not been set yet so it could be
>more than $300.
>

I doubt what i've read on Reuters, AP is official but they're saying
the XBOX 360 will retail at either $399 or $499 - and whether you're a
PC gamer or strictly consoles.. that's a lot of $, not to mention how
much the games will actually cost..

toadie

 

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> ...that's a lot of $, not to mention how much the games will actually
> cost..

True, but you can rent console games.

- f_f

 

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Here's an interview with the guys developing Quake IV:

IGN: What are some of the interesting graphic tricks or techniques
you're finding on Xbox 360 that are either different or better than on
the current PCs? And how will these show up in the game?

Tim: The great thing about the 360 it has really awesome hardware that
gives the console guys the full set of features. Normally, as a console
player you only get half the features, but with 360, you get everything
that you get with a $3,000 PC, but now you get it on a console. Console
gamers have been envious of the raw power of a PC, but they now have
it. For us, it's great. Now we can develop the games on both systems
and make sure the experiences are the same thing. We don't have to
short change the console gamer now. We can do all the technical things:
Specular lighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, and it just doesn't
cost you $3,000 to see those games running.

 

[Guest]

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faster_framerates wrote:

> True, but you can rent console games.

*hugs Gamefly account*

 

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arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:

> So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
> $400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
> Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more)
> in it already?

The XBox 360 effectively has the same card? *LOL*

FYI: the XBox GPU is just a bit faster than an ATI X700 (which is
basically a Radeon 9600 with PCIe interface) which hardly costs 300USD
these days. MS claims the Xbox 360 to have a bandwidth of 22.4GB/s to
the GDDR3 memory (for comparison: a GeforceFX 5950 already does
30.4GB/s, a 300USD GF6800GT does even much more!) and a pixel fillrate
performance of 16 bill. samples/sec with 4xAA. But it's using only 4
samples/pixel so the effective pixel fill rate is ~4 Gigapixel/sec. The
polygone fillrate of the XBox 360 is around 500 Mill. triangles/sec. An
ATI X700 does 3.4 Gigapixel/sec and 637.5 Mill. polygones/sec.
So it's more than fast enough for the dull PAL or even duller NTSC
resolution, but probably not fast enough to provide steadily high frame
rates at HDTV resolution (1080i) in all situations...

I really wonder why always when a new console appears some morons are
x-posting to dozens of unrelated newsgroups and praying how fast and
great that new console will be and that it will run everything other
into the ground. It's incredible how shallow-minded some people are,
believing that this 300USD concole will do miracles regarding
performance. I have an XBox myself, and I also had PSX and PS2. There
_always_ has been a hype that this new console delivers mindblasting
gfx, and _always_ the results where average at best. Not to forget the
limitations with input devices and the much higher price for console
games that suffer from a lot of bottlenecks due to console
limitations...

Benjamin

 

[Guest]

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Benjamin, what about the CPU the 360 has? How does it stack up against the
highest-end PC CPU's?

--
Remove nospam to email
"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3euepcF4ncjgU1@individual.net...
> arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
>> $400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
>> Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more)
>> in it already?
>
> The XBox 360 effectively has the same card? *LOL*
>
> FYI: the XBox GPU is just a bit faster than an ATI X700 (which is
> basically a Radeon 9600 with PCIe interface) which hardly costs 300USD
> these days. MS claims the Xbox 360 to have a bandwidth of 22.4GB/s to the
> GDDR3 memory (for comparison: a GeforceFX 5950 already does 30.4GB/s, a
> 300USD GF6800GT does even much more!) and a pixel fillrate performance of
> 16 bill. samples/sec with 4xAA. But it's using only 4 samples/pixel so the
> effective pixel fill rate is ~4 Gigapixel/sec. The polygone fillrate of
> the XBox 360 is around 500 Mill. triangles/sec. An ATI X700 does 3.4
> Gigapixel/sec and 637.5 Mill. polygones/sec.
> So it's more than fast enough for the dull PAL or even duller NTSC
> resolution, but probably not fast enough to provide steadily high frame
> rates at HDTV resolution (1080i) in all situations...
>
> I really wonder why always when a new console appears some morons are
> x-posting to dozens of unrelated newsgroups and praying how fast and great
> that new console will be and that it will run everything other into the
> ground. It's incredible how shallow-minded some people are, believing that
> this 300USD concole will do miracles regarding performance. I have an XBox
> myself, and I also had PSX and PS2. There _always_ has been a hype that
> this new console delivers mindblasting gfx, and _always_ the results where
> average at best. Not to forget the limitations with input devices and the
> much higher price for console games that suffer from a lot of bottlenecks
> due to console limitations...
>
> Benjamin

 

[Turk]

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<arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116287870.374488.162520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> So here's the problem PC gamers like me will soon face -- do we buy a
> $400 video card to play Quake IV on an aging PC, or do we buy a $300
> Xbox 360 which will effectively have that same card (and a lot more) in
> it already?

No, they aren't the same. Here's the problem you really mean: money. I'll
stick with my PC and pay the difference. The new X-Box 360 when it is
released in a year or 6 months or whatever will still be trashed by the PC I
have sitting right in front of me right now.

And hey, I do love my Gamecube (RE4 was awesome!!!), but I'd be stupid to
think my PC couldn't outperform it. No reason you shouldn't be happy if
mommy and daddy won't kick out the bucks for a killer PC rig, though.
You're X-Box 360 will do fine.

turk
--
"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely,
the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great
and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire
at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L.
Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, July 26, 1920.

 

[shawk]

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<arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116351986.336762.274930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Here's an interview with the guys developing Quake IV:
>
> IGN: What are some of the interesting graphic tricks or techniques
> you're finding on Xbox 360 that are either different or better than on
> the current PCs? And how will these show up in the game?
>
> Tim: The great thing about the 360 it has really awesome hardware that
> gives the console guys the full set of features. Normally, as a console
> player you only get half the features, but with 360, you get everything
> that you get with a $3,000 PC, but now you get it on a console. Console
> gamers have been envious of the raw power of a PC, but they now have
> it. For us, it's great. Now we can develop the games on both systems
> and make sure the experiences are the same thing. We don't have to
> short change the console gamer now. We can do all the technical things:
> Specular lighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, and it just doesn't
> cost you $3,000 to see those games running.
>

A little scary that 'Tim' doesn't know it doesn't cost $3000 now...

 

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On 17 May 2005 10:46:26 -0700, arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:

>Here's an interview with the guys developing Quake IV:
>
>IGN: What are some of the interesting graphic tricks or techniques
>you're finding on Xbox 360 that are either different or better than on
>the current PCs? And how will these show up in the game?
>
>Tim: The great thing about the 360 it has really awesome hardware that
>gives the console guys the full set of features. Normally, as a console
>player you only get half the features, but with 360, you get everything
>that you get with a $3,000 PC, but now you get it on a console. Console
>gamers have been envious of the raw power of a PC, but they now have
>it. For us, it's great. Now we can develop the games on both systems
>and make sure the experiences are the same thing. We don't have to
>short change the console gamer now. We can do all the technical things:
>Specular lighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, and it just doesn't
>cost you $3,000 to see those games running.

$3,000 is just a teeny bit high for a PC. Looking at the sales slip
for my PC I bought a couple years ago, I paid $1,024 plus tax for a P4
2.0GHz. I got a shitty video card with it(GEFORCE MX400), so I
repalced with a Radeon 9800Pro for $300. I kept my 17 inch monitor
from my P2 400Ghz.

So brand new PC: $1024 + $300 = $1324
$1324 + tax($79.44) = $1403.44

 

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On Tue, 17 May 2005 16:54:15 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

>Plus there is no computer that you
>can buy for $500 that will run Doom 3 reasonably

http://www.oemexpress.com/

A-Speed 2300+ sells for 299.99.

An ATI/Sapphire Radeon X300SE 128MB PCI-E sells for 79.99. (Or you can
grab the 59.99 model.)

Subtotal is: $379.98.
Sales tax (15%) brings total to $436.98.

Want more memory? But Crucial 235MB DDR400 for $39.99.
The total cost is $482.97.

 

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Raymond Martineau wrote:

> http://www.oemexpress.com/
>
> A-Speed 2300+ sells for 299.99.
>
> An ATI/Sapphire Radeon X300SE 128MB PCI-E sells for 79.99. (Or you
> can grab the 59.99 model.)
>
> Subtotal is: $379.98.
> Sales tax (15%) brings total to $436.98.
>
> Want more memory? But Crucial 235MB DDR400 for $39.99.
> The total cost is $482.97.

That's nice, will it actually work reasonably? Cheap computers look nice on
paper but when you run them that's an entirely different story.

 

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Doug wrote:

> Benjamin, what about the CPU the 360 has? How does it stack up
> against the highest-end PC CPU's?

Well, the XBox 360 uses a 3.2GHz 64bit PowerPC processor with three cpu
cores, very similar to the PPC970FX used in Apples G5 computers. MS
claims it does 9 bill. Dot Product operations per second (one operation
per clock cycle and per Altivec unit). One Dot Product operation usually
consists of 5 fp operations (two multiplications and one addition),
which leads to a theoretical peak performance of 45 GFLOP/s for the
3-core XBox processor.
For comparison: a single core P4 3.8GHz does 15.2 GFLOP/s, and one of
the two 2.7GHz PPC970FX processors in Apples top-of-the-line Powermac G5
does 21.1 GFLOP/s.

So performance-wise the XBox isn't really ahead of what's available in
the PC world, despite the claims and dreams of XBox fanatics around the
usenet. It uses current technologies which are cheap due to mass
production. Of course the combination of three cores gives it a good
theoretical performance for a ~300USD product. But it's architecture
also limits it's use, so it's not really comparable to a "real"
computer...

Benjamin

 

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Walter Mitty wrote:

>
>
>
> How do you link Doom 3 and Quake 4? The fact that they use the same
> engine reflects on the game play content??



Unfortunately, yes. The Doom 3 engine isn't very good for large areas
or large numbers of enemies. That means Quake 4 has little choice but
to be a Doom 3 type experience...

 

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saint wrote:
> On 17 May 2005 10:46:26 -0700, arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>Here's an interview with the guys developing Quake IV:
>>
>>IGN: What are some of the interesting graphic tricks or techniques
>>you're finding on Xbox 360 that are either different or better than on
>>the current PCs? And how will these show up in the game?
>>
>>Tim: The great thing about the 360 it has really awesome hardware that
>>gives the console guys the full set of features. Normally, as a console
>>player you only get half the features, but with 360, you get everything
>>that you get with a $3,000 PC, but now you get it on a console. Console
>>gamers have been envious of the raw power of a PC, but they now have
>>it. For us, it's great. Now we can develop the games on both systems
>>and make sure the experiences are the same thing. We don't have to
>>short change the console gamer now. We can do all the technical things:
>>Specular lighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, and it just doesn't
>>cost you $3,000 to see those games running.
>
>
> $3,000 is just a teeny bit high for a PC. Looking at the sales slip
> for my PC I bought a couple years ago, I paid $1,024 plus tax for a P4
> 2.0GHz. I got a shitty video card with it(GEFORCE MX400), so I
> repalced with a Radeon 9800Pro for $300. I kept my 17 inch monitor
> from my P2 400Ghz.

But the XBox 360 has *three* 3 GHz PPC cores, and comes in a nice small
package. I don't know of a comparable PC.

 

[shawk]

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"Smart Feet" <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> wrote in message
news:9Rtie.28437$i1.68@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you link Doom 3 and Quake 4? The fact that they use the same
>> engine reflects on the game play content??
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, yes. The Doom 3 engine isn't very good for large areas or
> large numbers of enemies. That means Quake 4 has little choice but to be
> a Doom 3 type experience...

I know you shouldn't put too much store by what gaming magazines say but
PCGamer says "the new game defies some of the assumptions made about that
engine; that it couldn't handle outdoor areas; more than a few characters on
screen at once, or vehicles. It can do all these things and more". Q4 is
being developed by Raven too - not ID. I have hopes for it (on PC not
X-Box).

 

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On Tue, 17 May 2005 23:32:28 +0100, "Shawk"
<shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:

> Q4 is
>being developed by Raven too - not ID.

Yea, so? Raven did SOFII which is a POS.

 

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Thusly arcanastream@yahoo.com Spake Unto All:

>Here's an interview with the guys developing Quake IV:
>
>IGN: What are some of the interesting graphic tricks or techniques
>you're finding on Xbox 360 that are either different or better than on
>the current PCs? And how will these show up in the game?
>
>Tim: The great thing about the 360 it has really awesome hardware that
>gives the console guys the full set of features. Normally, as a console
>player you only get half the features, but with 360, you get everything
>that you get with a $3,000 PC, but now you get it on a console. Console
>gamers have been envious of the raw power of a PC, but they now have
>it. For us, it's great. Now we can develop the games on both systems
>and make sure the experiences are the same thing. We don't have to
>short change the console gamer now. We can do all the technical things:
>Specular lighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, and it just doesn't
>cost you $3,000 to see those games running.

Translation: we're envious of the phat l00t being amassed by the
companies developing for consoles, we're tired of coding 10x more
advanced games for 1/10th of the revenue, so we're jumping ship and
will in the future be coding for console first too. Like everyone
else.

 

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Thusly Smart Feet <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> Spake Unto All:

>> How do you link Doom 3 and Quake 4? The fact that they use the same
>> engine reflects on the game play content??
>
>Unfortunately, yes. The Doom 3 engine isn't very good for large areas
>or large numbers of enemies. That means Quake 4 has little choice but
>to be a Doom 3 type experience...

Rubbish. Reduce lighting quality and number of polygons, and you can
have as big areas as you'd like.

 

[Guest]

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On Wed, 18 May 2005 00:24:45 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly Smart Feet <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> Spake Unto All:
>
>>> How do you link Doom 3 and Quake 4? The fact that they use the same
>>> engine reflects on the game play content??
>>
>>Unfortunately, yes. The Doom 3 engine isn't very good for large areas
>>or large numbers of enemies. That means Quake 4 has little choice but
>>to be a Doom 3 type experience...
>
>Rubbish. Reduce lighting quality and number of polygons, and you can
>have as big areas as you'd like.

The engine needs to be designed to handle those large areas.

I remember an experiment with Descent 2 that ateemtped to create an
"out-door" environment that looked like terrain. The framerate was sub 20
on a modern computer - which is a serious performance hit. (Could be
accelerated with openGL, but that wasn't available at the time.)

 

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x-no-archive: yes

Raymond Martineau wrote:

>> Plus there is no computer that you
>> can buy for $500 that will run Doom 3 reasonably
>
> http://www.oemexpress.com/
>
> A-Speed 2300+ sells for 299.99.
>
> An ATI/Sapphire Radeon X300SE 128MB PCI-E sells for 79.99. (Or you
> can grab the 59.99 model.)
>
> Subtotal is: $379.98.
> Sales tax (15%) brings total to $436.98.
>
> Want more memory? But Crucial 235MB DDR400 for $39.99.
> The total cost is $482.97.

i truly disliked your posts in the past
you were one of those posters i couldn't keep from flaming
i thought you were intelectual, snobbish and arrogant
but lately you have been writing some very good posts
this is very good!
thank you!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

 

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x-no-archive: yes

saint wrote:
> As far as
packaging goes, I suggest
> you argue it out with Steamkiller. He is our
> resident package inspector.

*snort* haha..

--
Best Regards, mattchu
np: Radio 4 - How the Stars Got Crossed.mp3

 

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On Tue, 17 May 2005 22:54:17 -0600, timeOday
<timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:


>> $3,000 is just a teeny bit high for a PC. Looking at the sales slip
>> for my PC I bought a couple years ago, I paid $1,024 plus tax for a P4
>> 2.0GHz. I got a shitty video card with it(GEFORCE MX400), so I
>> repalced with a Radeon 9800Pro for $300. I kept my 17 inch monitor
>> from my P2 400Ghz.
>
>But the XBox 360 has *three* 3 GHz PPC cores, and comes in a nice small
>package. I don't know of a comparable PC.

I wasn't comparing the price point or specs between the PC and the
XBOX360. Comparing price point, the PC is gonna lose because we're
just talking gaming and unless the XBOX360 sells for $500 the 360
makes more sense financially. Comparing specs the 360 is gonna lose
because the PC is upgradable. Even if the 360 is comparable to a PC at
launch, the PC will quickly overtake the 360 specs. As far as
packaging goes, I suggest you argue it out with Steamkiller. He is our
resident package inspector.

 

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Thusly timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> Spake Unto All:

>But the XBox 360 has *three* 3 GHz PPC cores, and comes in a nice small
>package. I don't know of a comparable PC.

FFS, I can't believe you guys are actually buying the pre-release hype
from Microsoft and Sony. You _know_ it's all marketing bullshit and
hyperbole, it _always_ is prior, and it's there to generate buzz
before the launch of a console. MS and Sony spends tens if not
hundreds of millions of dollars to create pre-release hype!

It's all happened before, it'll all happen again in five years time
when the next gen console is due for release.