Q: ProTools - hardware needed?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I know the names of things like mbox and so on but I would like to know
from experience, just what works and what I can expect from it. How
good, how reliable, all the good info before I buy stuff....

thanks again

Danny wrote:

> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
> version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>
> I use cubase but I am trying to be more compatible with others. I do
> know I can export and have done it for a long time but it wouldn't hurt
> me to have pt if is isn't too much - so I am thinking about the purchase.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Danny Taddei
>

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Danny <Keep@Your.com> wrote in message news:<10j5hlnn1eb9ce5@corp.supernews.com>...
> I know the names of things like mbox and so on but I would like to know
> from experience, just what works and what I can expect from it. How
> good, how reliable, all the good info before I buy stuff....
>
> thanks again
>
> Danny wrote:
>
> > What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
> > version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> > sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
> >
> > I use cubase but I am trying to be more compatible with others. I do
> > know I can export and have done it for a long time but it wouldn't hurt
> > me to have pt if is isn't too much - so I am thinking about the purchase.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Danny Taddei
> >

I would to go the Digidesign's website and look in the user conference
message boards. There are a lot of sticky posts offering advice on
this issue

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orbb wrote:

>>>
>
>
> I would to go the Digidesign's website and look in the user conference
> message boards. There are a lot of sticky posts offering advice on
> this issue

That may be a good idea... though I trust the folks here a bit more ;-)

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Mike Rivers wrote:


>
> There's ProTools Free, but it doesn't work beyond Windows 98. In
> concept, Digidesign hardware is the "key" to opening the software.

Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
studio.

Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?

danny

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ScotFraser wrote:

> << You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
> ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
> to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
> if your computer will be compatible. >>
>
> Well, there is ProTools Free, which works with Sound Manager (internal Apple
> sound hardware) but I don't know if that's still available.
>
>
> Scott Fraser

Probably not what the doctor ordered either. I have no problem spending
a little for one of the small systems if they actually work. I need to
be compatible (in the minds of PT users) with PT users. I know how to
transfer files but if they don't they get wiggy on me..... a few bucks
and no wiggies... that's worth it.

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In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:

> Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
> studio.
>
> Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?

Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think (not
sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the software
recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware, you can
route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could buy a system
with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and never connect
anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use another audio
interface.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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Geoff Wood wrote:

> EricK wrote:
>
>>Danny wrote:
>>
>>>What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there
>>>any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to
>>>buy some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>>
>>You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
>>ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
>>to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to
>>see if your computer will be compatible.
>
>
> Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you like,
> apart from ProTools.
>
> geoff
>
>
I've got a small client base that is familiar with ProTools and I use
Cubase/motu set up. I need the protools to keep the natives from getting
restless.

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so what wrote:

now I owe you a six pack
>>
>
>
> If that pans out y'all come back and let us know!
>
Si Senior :-) and I will bring cervesas with a smilie face too.

I am going to call protools guys as soon as I get a chance and see what
they say - stay tuned

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<< Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you like,
apart from ProTools. >>

Why is that better?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

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EggHd wrote:

> << oh well, it was nice to think I could get all 32 of my tracks in but 16
> will do. >>
>
> I believe if you also use the spdf you can get 2 more for 18 I/O.
>
> How many I/0 does your motu box have?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
It can actually go up to 72 I think though you don't need to say
it....... I have 32 in/out now and will be adding another 16 soon just
so I fill up my mixer, and cuz it'll sound so cool to say I have it :-)

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Danny wrote:
> Geoff Wood wrote:
>
>> EricK wrote:
>>
>>> Danny wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is
>>>> there any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I
>>>> have to buy some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>>>
>>> You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU
>>> hardware. ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The
>>> minimum investment to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check
>>> out Digi's site to see if your computer will be compatible.
>>
>>
>> Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you
>> like, apart from ProTools.
>>
>> geoff
>>
>>
> I've got a small client base that is familiar with ProTools and I use
> Cubase/motu set up. I need the protools to keep the natives from
> getting restless.

Just tell them it's ProTools and they'll make comments like "Jeepers,
ProTools wasn't this weasy to use last time I tried !".


Naa, just get what you need, ProTools if absolutely necessary. But don't
plan on being able to use your MOTU - even if it ispossible at the mo' ,
don't count on it remaining the case in the future with such an autocratic
company.


geoff

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Geoff Wood wrote:

> EggHd wrote:
>
>><< Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software
>>you like, apart from ProTools. >>
>>
>>Why is that better?
>
>
>
> Depending on the app, superior workflow, more CHOICE, and the feel-good
> factor of not supporting an autocratic company.
>
> geoff
>
>

I agree. i have worked in pt before and choose anything else over it. I
really like cubase.

PT got to be the thing because it was the first system that worked well.
it isn't the best at all anymore but people don't know anything but what
they hear.

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> the feel-good
> factor of not supporting an autocratic company.


Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?


--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: chris@chriswhite.com Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

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In article <310820040459106502%ihate@spamo.com> ihate@spamo.com writes:

> No. You won't be connecting a motu interface or anyone else directly
> into PT. The mbox PT software will not see it.

> Digidesign software looks for digi hardware. The only exception I am
> aware of would be the approved third party midi interfaces and control
> surfaces listed on their website.

Thanks for clearing that up. Not being a ProTools follower, I can't
always accurately interpret what I hear, or confuse what worked five
years ago with what doesn't work today.

So you pick up a cheap Digi 001, hook up 8 channels of Lightpipe
converters to it, and that should be enough I/O for most project
studios.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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>From: "Chris!" chris@chriswhite.com

>Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?

hmmm... maybe you should read up on PT and how it actually works. The
software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
justifies the costs. Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered more
of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
worth.

That is opressive and abusive of their power. Man I wish I was majority
owner....
That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
(s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know ProTools.


-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

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"Danny" <Keep@Your.com> wrote in message
news:10j6ik125ef8i72@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I think the mbox it probably all I need
> to be compatible with other studios but are there any real draw backs
or
> bad reputations that go with it.

I use an mbox and have never had an issue. I have to keep the buffers
set pretty high, but that might have more to do with my laptop than the
hardware/software. Not that it matters... the mbox has an analog input
monitor control for real, no-mixer-required zero-latency monitoring.

There are times when I'd like to track more than two inputs at once, and
for those situations I'm thinking about getting a 002R. The only
benefit would be more inputs though. The software is identical.

Your question was "Does it work?" From where I sit, the answer is yes,
better than other stuff I've tried. It's a closed system, so it doesn't
always play nice with other stuff (like you can't do anything useful
with your MOTU software and you have to use pt-specific plugs), but the
benefit is that the stuff that's supposed to work does.



> I have used protools before and though I don't know if it was the
> operator's fault, we had all kinds of dropped tracks and screw ups.
The
> studio in question was spotless, in San Diego, in case anyone knows
them.

I screwed-up a take and misplaced a file, but it was the result of a
mistake *I* made, not something wrong with the MBox or PT software.
That's what happens when you chat with the talent when you should really
be concentrating on what you're doing...

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

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On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:56:38 -0400, John wrote
(in article <20040831235638.24672.00000199@mb-m01.aol.com> ):

>> From: "Chris!" chris@chriswhite.com
>
>> Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?
>
> hmmm... maybe you should read up on PT and how it actually works. The
> software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
> justifies the costs. Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
> fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
> specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered
> more
> of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
> worth.
>
> That is opressive and abusive of their power. Man I wish I was majority
> owner....
> That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
> lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
> ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
> (s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know
> ProTools.
>
>
> -John Vice
> www.summertimestudios.com

I'll have to disagree with that position. My first DAW cost $46,000. That was
in 1991. The Digi 001 I bought about four years ago for $750 does more and
sounds better. The Digi 002 I bought last year sounds better than the Digi
001 and for has quite a few nice features that were added to the Digi 001's
impressive menu.

I now have the 001 and 002. I consider them real bargains.

The idea that software and hardware integration is trivial, given the number
of systems out there today, is incorrect.

I certainly agree that Pro Tools is an investment in my future. I make my
living with these tools every day. I, in no way, consider Digidesign as
oppressive or abusing their power. Their power is strictly limited by the
market. If their gear didn't work, they wouldn't be around.

The sound quality differences to which you refer could exist for many
different reasons other than Pro Tools. Even Pro Tools can't save a poorly
wired, poorly designed or poorly operated facility. I'm not saying yours is
among those. I'm just making a point.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< When I was able to say "Ampex" and
"Soundcraft" real potential clients were more interested in what else
I had and what I did. >>

And there were the Neve/Studer type clients who wouldn't book without that
combo.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< My point was that the market doesn't demand PT simply because it's a great
tool. There is demand for PT because "everybody's doing it." And this concept
is what helps create the high price for PT systems. >>

You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue other
use it? That's insulting.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris! wrote:
>> the feel-good
>> factor of not supporting an autocratic company.
>
>
> Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?

They had the advantage of being first on the block. They contiued with the
locking of people into investing in their software AND hardware (arguably)
because of their restrictive business model rather than technical reasons.


geoff

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< That's fine. Especially if that choice is made on grounds *other* than "If
I don't get ProTools I won't get work because the perception is (for
whatever reason) that only ProTools is 'Professional' ". >>

I personally don't know anybody in that mindset.

I have many friends who use DP, Nuendo, Cool Edit, and everything else.

They all make their choices, do great work and stay busy.

What is the issue with Pro Tools? use it or not. Who gives a rats ass?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

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In article <20040901145359.15985.00003034@mb-m21.aol.com> egghd@aol.com writes:

> You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue other
> use it? That's insulting.

My understanding of what John meant is that those who use it do so
because it's what the paying clients want. Nothing wrong with that.

But if the proverbial "everbody" who has money to spend in a studio
wants to do it in a ProTools studio, you either provide it or lose
some business.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1094068071k@trad...
> It doesn't really create the high price for PT systems, it keeps the
> price from dropping. The fact that they to a major upgrade of hardware
> and software every couple of years means that they can't amortize
> their development cost over a very long period. They know that they'll
> sell (for the sake of argument) 10,000 systems, and in two years,
> they'll sell 10,000 systems to the same people over again, less a few
> who decide to abandon Digidesign, plus a few brave enough to start
> with it.

The turnover rate is more like once every five years except for folks who
seem to believe they are crippled if they don't have the very latest gizmo
to brag about. Myself, I'm utterly amazed people think of Pro Tools as being
expensive.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

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In article <20040901181827.03267.00000023@mb-m17.aol.com> egghd@aol.com writes:

> I personally don't know anybody in that mindset.
> I have many friends who use DP, Nuendo, Cool Edit, and everything else.
> They all make their choices, do great work and stay busy.

Well, your friends are actually doing work, and probably either have
already dealt with or don't have to deal with people who call them up
saying "I want to record a CD. Do you have ProTools? How much do you
charge an hour?"

> What is the issue with Pro Tools? use it or not. Who gives a rats ass?

The person who perceives that he's losing money because he doesn't
have it. A successful studio owner friend of mine in the Bay area has
a good analog setup, but he was pretty much forced into buying ADATs
several years back because budgets (even those of his regular clients
who loved his room and his work) could no longer support analog tape.
When it became necessary to move to a hard disk based system, he
studied out what was available and decided to go with ProTools (he got
a good deal on last year's model and isn't in a hurry to upgrade)
because there wasn't anything wrong with it and the name recognition
would bring him some new business, wouldn't lose him any of his
existing business, and would allow him to do some things more
efficiently.

I'm not in the position to make or lose money in a studio, so I'll
stick with my Mackie recorder, Lynx L22 card, and Fast Edit.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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>From: mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
>Date: 9/1/2004 7:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <znr1094068248k@trad>
>
>
>In article <20040901145359.15985.00003034@mb-m21.aol.com> egghd@aol.com
>writes:
>
>> You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue
>other
>> use it? That's insulting.
>
>My understanding of what John meant is that those who use it do so
>because it's what the paying clients want. Nothing wrong with that.

That's more what I had in mind. Thanks.


>
>But if the proverbial "everbody" who has money to spend in a studio
>wants to do it in a ProTools studio, you either provide it or lose
>some business.
>

Exactly.

>--
>I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
>However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
>lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
>you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
>and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
>



-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com