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Q: ProTools - hardware needed?

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August 30, 2004 4:03:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
sort of outboard box/mixer or other?

I use cubase but I am trying to be more compatible with others. I do
know I can export and have done it for a long time but it wouldn't hurt
me to have pt if is isn't too much - so I am thinking about the purchase.

Thanks


Danny Taddei
August 30, 2004 4:18:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I know the names of things like mbox and so on but I would like to know
from experience, just what works and what I can expect from it. How
good, how reliable, all the good info before I buy stuff....

thanks again

Danny wrote:

> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
> version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>
> I use cubase but I am trying to be more compatible with others. I do
> know I can export and have done it for a long time but it wouldn't hurt
> me to have pt if is isn't too much - so I am thinking about the purchase.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Danny Taddei
>
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 11:11:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny <Keep@Your.com> wrote in message news:<10j5hlnn1eb9ce5@corp.supernews.com>...
> I know the names of things like mbox and so on but I would like to know
> from experience, just what works and what I can expect from it. How
> good, how reliable, all the good info before I buy stuff....
>
> thanks again
>
> Danny wrote:
>
> > What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
> > version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> > sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
> >
> > I use cubase but I am trying to be more compatible with others. I do
> > know I can export and have done it for a long time but it wouldn't hurt
> > me to have pt if is isn't too much - so I am thinking about the purchase.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Danny Taddei
> >

I would to go the Digidesign's website and look in the user conference
message boards. There are a lot of sticky posts offering advice on
this issue
Related resources
August 30, 2004 12:02:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny wrote:
> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there any
> version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> sort of outboard box/mixer or other?

You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
if your computer will be compatible.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com
August 30, 2004 1:35:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

orbb wrote:

>>>
>
>
> I would to go the Digidesign's website and look in the user conference
> message boards. There are a lot of sticky posts offering advice on
> this issue

That may be a good idea... though I trust the folks here a bit more ;-)
August 30, 2004 1:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EricK wrote:

> Danny wrote:
>
>> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there
>> any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy
>> some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>
>
> You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
> ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
> to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
> if your computer will be compatible.
>

Thanks for that. I did go all through the site. I reposted a trailer to
my original post clarifying but you probably didn't see it. I am more
after the -does it work- factor. I think the mbox it probably all I need
to be compatible with other studios but are there any real draw backs or
bad reputations that go with it.

I have used protools before and though I don't know if it was the
operator's fault, we had all kinds of dropped tracks and screw ups. The
studio in question was spotless, in San Diego, in case anyone knows them.

Thanks for your help, if you have more I would love it.

Danny
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 2:36:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10j5gpa6qqbov04@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:

> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools?

An M-box on just about any Windows or Mac computer.

> Is there any
> version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to buy some
> sort of outboard box/mixer or other?

There's ProTools Free, but it doesn't work beyond Windows 98. In
concept, Digidesign hardware is the "key" to opening the software.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
August 30, 2004 2:36:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:


>
> There's ProTools Free, but it doesn't work beyond Windows 98. In
> concept, Digidesign hardware is the "key" to opening the software.

Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
studio.

Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?

danny
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 8:32:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
if your computer will be compatible. >>

Well, there is ProTools Free, which works with Sound Manager (internal Apple
sound hardware) but I don't know if that's still available.


Scott Fraser
August 30, 2004 8:32:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ScotFraser wrote:

> << You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
> ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
> to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
> if your computer will be compatible. >>
>
> Well, there is ProTools Free, which works with Sound Manager (internal Apple
> sound hardware) but I don't know if that's still available.
>
>
> Scott Fraser

Probably not what the doctor ordered either. I have no problem spending
a little for one of the small systems if they actually work. I need to
be compatible (in the minds of PT users) with PT users. I know how to
transfer files but if they don't they get wiggy on me..... a few bucks
and no wiggies... that's worth it.
August 30, 2004 9:39:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Digidesign has spoken -

There is no way that their software will work with other outboard gear.
You must go through their inboxes. Their digi002 rack mount has 1 light
pipe in that can absorb an 8 track. In my case, the digi 002 will give
me 16 tracks in and out using my other a/d/a boxes at a list price of $1295.

oh well, it was nice to think I could get all 32 of my tracks in but 16
will do.

Thanks everyone
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 10:01:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:

> Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
> studio.
>
> Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?

Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think (not
sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the software
recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware, you can
route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could buy a system
with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and never connect
anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use another audio
interface.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
August 30, 2004 10:01:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:
>
>
>>Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
>>studio.
>>
>>Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?
>
>
> Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think (not
> sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the software
> recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware, you can
> route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could buy a system
> with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and never connect
> anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use another audio
> interface.

Once again - you'da man! If that pans out I'm in fat city. I owe you a
beer. - hummm, by now I owe you a six pack
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 10:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny wrote:
>
>
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:
>>
>>
>>> Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under
>>> my studio.
>>>
>>> Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works
>>> well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think (not
>> sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the software
>> recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware, you can
>> route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could buy a system
>> with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and never connect
>> anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use another audio
>> interface.
>
>
> Once again - you'da man! If that pans out I'm in fat city. I owe you a
> beer. - hummm, by now I owe you a six pack
>


If that pans out y'all come back and let us know!
August 30, 2004 10:01:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

so what wrote:

now I owe you a six pack
>>
>
>
> If that pans out y'all come back and let us know!
>
Si Senior :-) and I will bring cervesas with a smilie face too.

I am going to call protools guys as soon as I get a chance and see what
they say - stay tuned
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 6:15:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< oh well, it was nice to think I could get all 32 of my tracks in but 16
will do. >>

I believe if you also use the spdf you can get 2 more for 18 I/O.

How many I/0 does your motu box have?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
August 31, 2004 6:15:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EggHd wrote:

> << oh well, it was nice to think I could get all 32 of my tracks in but 16
> will do. >>
>
> I believe if you also use the spdf you can get 2 more for 18 I/O.
>
> How many I/0 does your motu box have?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
It can actually go up to 72 I think though you don't need to say
it....... I have 32 in/out now and will be adding another 16 soon just
so I fill up my mixer, and cuz it'll sound so cool to say I have it :-)
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:21:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EricK wrote:
> Danny wrote:
>> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there
>> any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to
>> buy some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>
> You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
> ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
> to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to
> see if your computer will be compatible.

Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you like,
apart from ProTools.

geoff
August 31, 2004 12:21:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Geoff Wood wrote:

> EricK wrote:
>
>>Danny wrote:
>>
>>>What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is there
>>>any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I have to
>>>buy some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>>
>>You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
>>ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
>>to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to
>>see if your computer will be compatible.
>
>
> Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you like,
> apart from ProTools.
>
> geoff
>
>
I've got a small client base that is familiar with ProTools and I use
Cubase/motu set up. I need the protools to keep the natives from getting
restless.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:21:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you like,
apart from ProTools. >>

Why is that better?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
August 31, 2004 12:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1093895228k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com>
wrote:

> In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:
>
> > Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest under my
> > studio.
> >
> > Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox works well?
>
> Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think (not
> sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the software
> recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware, you can
> route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could buy a system
> with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and never connect
> anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use another audio
> interface.




No. You won't be connecting a motu interface or anyone else directly
into PT. The mbox PT software will not see it.

You can use another company's converters, nothing remarkable about
that, and we're talking only one steenkin' stereo channel, and dumping
its spdif out digital in to the mbox. Or visee versa with the spdif out
from the mbox to another d to a to listen to the output.

Digidesign software looks for digi hardware. The only exception I am
aware of would be the approved third party midi interfaces and control
surfaces listed on their website.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:59:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <310820040459106502%ihate@spamo.com> ihate@spamo.com writes:

> No. You won't be connecting a motu interface or anyone else directly
> into PT. The mbox PT software will not see it.

> Digidesign software looks for digi hardware. The only exception I am
> aware of would be the approved third party midi interfaces and control
> surfaces listed on their website.

Thanks for clearing that up. Not being a ProTools follower, I can't
always accurately interpret what I hear, or confuse what worked five
years ago with what doesn't work today.

So you pick up a cheap Digi 001, hook up 8 channels of Lightpipe
converters to it, and that should be enough I/O for most project
studios.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 9:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> In article <10j6inrnunfumd4@corp.supernews.com> Keep@Your.com writes:
>>
>>
>>> Of course there is cost but I was hoping to not add a new nest
>>> under my studio.
>>>
>>> Have you used the cheap mbox set up and do you know if the mbox
>>> works well?
>>
>>
>> Not me, but I'm told that it works remarkably well. Also, I think
>> (not sure, this is belief based on explanations) that once the
>> software recognizes that it's connected to some Digidesign hardware,
>> you can route ProTools audio through other hardware. So you could
>> buy a system with an M-Box, stash the M-box under your desk and
>> never connect anything to it but the USB cable, and actually use
>> another audio interface.
>
> Once again - you'da man! If that pans out I'm in fat city. I owe you a
> beer. - hummm, by now I owe you a six pack

You can buy me a couple of DOZEN beers for the recommendation that you
investigate using an alternative (ANY alternative) to ProTools. Most
options are less expensive, easier to use, and from companies with less
restrictive business models. And choose right you can still load in other
peoples' ProTool projects.

geoff
August 31, 2004 9:29:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Geoff Wood wrote:

> Danny wrote:y now I owe you a six pack
>
>
> You can buy me a couple of DOZEN beers for the recommendation that you
> investigate using an alternative (ANY alternative) to ProTools. Most
> options are less expensive, easier to use, and from companies with less
> restrictive business models. And choose right you can still load in other
> peoples' ProTool projects.
>
> geoff
>
>
Like I said to your other post, I couldn't agree with you more. I like
anything better then PT but people are dumb and don't know. I have some
folks that want some tracks done but they are mixing in a pt post house
and want to record in PT. I tried to explain that the tracks import just
fine but stopped trying to explain when they were rolling there eyes and
putting away their wallets. You have to do what the wallet is telling
you to do........

I may track everything in cubase and not tell them. I can transfer it
over in someone else's nightmare... ummm I mean pt studio and give it to
them like that but I might just buy the digi002 set up and be done with it.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 9:32:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny wrote:
> Geoff Wood wrote:
>
>> EricK wrote:
>>
>>> Danny wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the minimum hardware/software package for ProTools? Is
>>>> there any version that I can use motu 2408 mkII's with or will I
>>>> have to buy some sort of outboard box/mixer or other?
>>>
>>> You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU
>>> hardware. ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The
>>> minimum investment to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check
>>> out Digi's site to see if your computer will be compatible.
>>
>>
>> Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software you
>> like, apart from ProTools.
>>
>> geoff
>>
>>
> I've got a small client base that is familiar with ProTools and I use
> Cubase/motu set up. I need the protools to keep the natives from
> getting restless.

Just tell them it's ProTools and they'll make comments like "Jeepers,
ProTools wasn't this weasy to use last time I tried !".


Naa, just get what you need, ProTools if absolutely necessary. But don't
plan on being able to use your MOTU - even if it ispossible at the mo' ,
don't count on it remaining the case in the future with such an autocratic
company.


geoff
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 9:33:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EggHd wrote:
> << Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software
> you like, apart from ProTools. >>
>
> Why is that better?


Depending on the app, superior workflow, more CHOICE, and the feel-good
factor of not supporting an autocratic company.

geoff
August 31, 2004 9:33:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Geoff Wood wrote:

> EggHd wrote:
>
>><< Or even better, use whatever hardware you like, and any software
>>you like, apart from ProTools. >>
>>
>>Why is that better?
>
>
>
> Depending on the app, superior workflow, more CHOICE, and the feel-good
> factor of not supporting an autocratic company.
>
> geoff
>
>

I agree. i have worked in pt before and choose anything else over it. I
really like cubase.

PT got to be the thing because it was the first system that worked well.
it isn't the best at all anymore but people don't know anything but what
they hear.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 9:33:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> the feel-good
> factor of not supporting an autocratic company.


Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?


--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: chris@chriswhite.com Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 10:47:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< > Why is that better?

Depending on the app, superior workflow, more CHOICE, and the feel-good
factor of not supporting an autocratic company. >>


But that's just opinion. What if the choice is pro tools?


---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
September 1, 2004 7:56:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>From: "Chris!" chris@chriswhite.com

>Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?

hmmm... maybe you should read up on PT and how it actually works. The
software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
justifies the costs. Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered more
of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
worth.

That is opressive and abusive of their power. Man I wish I was majority
owner....
That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
(s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know ProTools.


-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 10:37:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< The
software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
justifies the costs. >>

The justification of the cost resides in the fact that ProTools works in
situations where native DAWs don't, such as extremely high track counts with
lots of CPU intensive plugins involved. And that is something that has value.

<< ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
(s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know ProTools.
>>

For those people "ProTools" is a generic term that simply means a computer DAW.
When people ask me if I have ProTools & I tell them I use Digital Performer,
the non-DAW savvy are satisfied with that, & those who know what's up ask if I
can transfer files between PT & DP. For most, the term "ProTools" is really
just like "Kleenex".




Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:08:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Danny" <Keep@Your.com> wrote in message
news:10j6ik125ef8i72@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I think the mbox it probably all I need
> to be compatible with other studios but are there any real draw backs
or
> bad reputations that go with it.

I use an mbox and have never had an issue. I have to keep the buffers
set pretty high, but that might have more to do with my laptop than the
hardware/software. Not that it matters... the mbox has an analog input
monitor control for real, no-mixer-required zero-latency monitoring.

There are times when I'd like to track more than two inputs at once, and
for those situations I'm thinking about getting a 002R. The only
benefit would be more inputs though. The software is identical.

Your question was "Does it work?" From where I sit, the answer is yes,
better than other stuff I've tried. It's a closed system, so it doesn't
always play nice with other stuff (like you can't do anything useful
with your MOTU software and you have to use pt-specific plugs), but the
benefit is that the stuff that's supposed to work does.



> I have used protools before and though I don't know if it was the
> operator's fault, we had all kinds of dropped tracks and screw ups.
The
> studio in question was spotless, in San Diego, in case anyone knows
them.

I screwed-up a take and misplaced a file, but it was the result of a
mistake *I* made, not something wrong with the MBox or PT software.
That's what happens when you chat with the talent when you should really
be concentrating on what you're doing...

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:12:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040831235638.24672.00000199@mb-m01.aol.com> jsvice@aol.com writes:

> Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
> fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
> specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered more
> of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
> worth.

> That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
> lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
> ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes.

I can remember being in a similar position some 20 years ago and was
actually trying to get business for my studio. People would call and
ask what kind of recorder and console I had, and when I replied
"TASCAM" many politiely thanked me but didn't book time (and some just
hung up without saying anything). When I was able to say "Ampex" and
"Soundcraft" real potential clients were more interested in what else
I had and what I did.

When they started asking about digital recorders (Did I have 24 tracks
of ADAT?) I decided it was time to retire from active studio work.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:26:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:56:38 -0400, John wrote
(in article <20040831235638.24672.00000199@mb-m01.aol.com>):

>> From: "Chris!" chris@chriswhite.com
>
>> Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?
>
> hmmm... maybe you should read up on PT and how it actually works. The
> software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
> justifies the costs. Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
> fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
> specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered
> more
> of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
> worth.
>
> That is opressive and abusive of their power. Man I wish I was majority
> owner....
> That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
> lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
> ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
> (s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know
> ProTools.
>
>
> -John Vice
> www.summertimestudios.com

I'll have to disagree with that position. My first DAW cost $46,000. That was
in 1991. The Digi 001 I bought about four years ago for $750 does more and
sounds better. The Digi 002 I bought last year sounds better than the Digi
001 and for has quite a few nice features that were added to the Digi 001's
impressive menu.

I now have the 001 and 002. I consider them real bargains.

The idea that software and hardware integration is trivial, given the number
of systems out there today, is incorrect.

I certainly agree that Pro Tools is an investment in my future. I make my
living with these tools every day. I, in no way, consider Digidesign as
oppressive or abusing their power. Their power is strictly limited by the
market. If their gear didn't work, they wouldn't be around.

The sound quality differences to which you refer could exist for many
different reasons other than Pro Tools. Even Pro Tools can't save a poorly
wired, poorly designed or poorly operated facility. I'm not saying yours is
among those. I'm just making a point.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
September 1, 2004 2:05:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:


> I screwed-up a take and misplaced a file, but it was the result of a
> mistake *I* made, not something wrong with the MBox or PT software.
> That's what happens when you chat with the talent when you should really
> be concentrating on what you're doing...
>

Thanks for you input. I think I will get the 002r myself and that will
give me 16 tracks using some of my other gear.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 8:38:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< When I was able to say "Ampex" and
"Soundcraft" real potential clients were more interested in what else
I had and what I did. >>

And there were the Neve/Studer type clients who wouldn't book without that
combo.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
September 1, 2004 10:09:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>From: Ty Ford tyreeford@comcast.net

>I'll have to disagree with that position. My first DAW cost $46,000. That was
>
>in 1991. The Digi 001 I bought about four years ago for $750 does more and
>sounds better. The Digi 002 I bought last year sounds better than the Digi
>001 and for has quite a few nice features that were added to the Digi 001's
>impressive menu.
>
>I now have the 001 and 002. I consider them real bargains.

I wasn't referring to the LE systems. Only the TDM based systems.


>
>The idea that software and hardware integration is trivial, given the number
>of systems out there today, is incorrect.
>

Ty, I didn't mean to imply that hw/sw integration was trivial. On the
contrary, I truly embrace the idea. It's exactly what I want in a DAW.


>I certainly agree that Pro Tools is an investment in my future. I make my
>living with these tools every day. I, in no way, consider Digidesign as
>oppressive or abusing their power. Their power is strictly limited by the
>market. If their gear didn't work, they wouldn't be around.

My point was that the market doesn't demand PT simply because it's a great
tool. There is demand for PT because "everybody's doing it." And this concept
is what helps create the high price for PT systems.

>
>The sound quality differences to which you refer could exist for many
>different reasons other than Pro Tools. Even Pro Tools can't save a poorly
>wired, poorly designed or poorly operated facility.

I wasn't implying that the reason these particular studios sound bad is because
of PT. It's usually a case of poor engineering. I apologize for the
confusion.

I'm not saying yours is
>among those. I'm just making a point.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ty Ford
>
>
>
>-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
>stuff are at www.tyford.com

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 10:53:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< My point was that the market doesn't demand PT simply because it's a great
tool. There is demand for PT because "everybody's doing it." And this concept
is what helps create the high price for PT systems. >>

You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue other
use it? That's insulting.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:06:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040901140916.09094.00000062@mb-m21.aol.com> jsvice@aol.com writes:

> My point was that the market doesn't demand PT simply because it's a great
> tool. There is demand for PT because "everybody's doing it." And this concept
> is what helps create the high price for PT systems.

It doesn't really create the high price for PT systems, it keeps the
price from dropping. The fact that they to a major upgrade of hardware
and software every couple of years means that they can't amortize
their development cost over a very long period. They know that they'll
sell (for the sake of argument) 10,000 systems, and in two years,
they'll sell 10,000 systems to the same people over again, less a few
who decide to abandon Digidesign, plus a few brave enough to start
with it. They won't sell 50,000 systems. Or maybe they do, but those
are the low end systems, and either those users will upgrade to the
full system, crossgrade to something else, or just drop it by the time
the next release comes around.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:06:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040901145359.15985.00003034@mb-m21.aol.com> egghd@aol.com writes:

> You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue other
> use it? That's insulting.

My understanding of what John meant is that those who use it do so
because it's what the paying clients want. Nothing wrong with that.

But if the proverbial "everbody" who has money to spend in a studio
wants to do it in a ProTools studio, you either provide it or lose
some business.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:02:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040830123253.26941.00000039@mb-m01.aol.com>,
scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:

!<< You will not be able to use ProTools software with the MOTU hardware.
!ProTools only will work with ProTools hardware. The minimum investment
!to get into ProTools will be with an Mbox. Check out Digi's site to see
!if your computer will be compatible. >>
!
!Well, there is ProTools Free, which works with Sound Manager (internal Apple
!sound hardware) but I don't know if that's still available.

Yes, but OS 9 only. I have heard, that Digidesign is waiting for apple
to send them what they need for PTFree for OS X

!
!
!Scott Fraser

--
KelL
AFTRA
"Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses."
--Sir Arthur C. Clarke
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:21:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just get Samplitude, and tell your customers it's a ProTools "beta
version".

Al

On 01 Sep 2004 03:56:38 GMT, jsvice@aol.com (John) wrote:

>>From: "Chris!" chris@chriswhite.com
>
>>Digidesign is "a despotic ruler"? How do you figure?
>
>hmmm... maybe you should read up on PT and how it actually works. The
>software/hardware combination, in and of itself, in no way, shape, or form
>justifies the costs. Instead, digi has carved out a most enviable niche and
>fully realizes that clients will recognize the name ProTools and ask for it
>specifically. Thus, their pricing is set so that the system is considered more
>of an investment in your future rather than being representative of tangible
>worth.
>
>That is opressive and abusive of their power. Man I wish I was majority
>owner....
>That negativity aside, I'm currently investigating my PT options, as I have
>lost a couple of gigs to studios who don't sound better, but they have
>ProTools. That may be the only words your client recognizes. Chances are
>(s)he won't know Manley, Great River, or even Neumann. But they know ProTools.
>
>
>-John Vice
>www.summertimestudios.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:08:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1094068071k@trad...
> It doesn't really create the high price for PT systems, it keeps the
> price from dropping. The fact that they to a major upgrade of hardware
> and software every couple of years means that they can't amortize
> their development cost over a very long period. They know that they'll
> sell (for the sake of argument) 10,000 systems, and in two years,
> they'll sell 10,000 systems to the same people over again, less a few
> who decide to abandon Digidesign, plus a few brave enough to start
> with it.

The turnover rate is more like once every five years except for folks who
seem to believe they are crippled if they don't have the very latest gizmo
to brag about. Myself, I'm utterly amazed people think of Pro Tools as being
expensive.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
September 2, 2004 4:08:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Olhsson wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1094068071k@trad...
>
>>It doesn't really create the high price for PT systems, it keeps the
>>price from dropping. The fact that they to a major upgrade of hardware
>>and software every couple of years means that they can't amortize
>>their development cost over a very long period. They know that they'll
>>sell (for the sake of argument) 10,000 systems, and in two years,
>>they'll sell 10,000 systems to the same people over again, less a few
>>who decide to abandon Digidesign, plus a few brave enough to start
>>with it.
>
>
> The turnover rate is more like once every five years except for folks who
> seem to believe they are crippled if they don't have the very latest gizmo
> to brag about. Myself, I'm utterly amazed people think of Pro Tools as being
> expensive.
>

It's list price is something around $1300 (street price is less) for 8
in/out and you can add 8 more through a light pipe. Damn man, I paid
$3800 for a tascam 388 back in 86/87 when I was much younger and made
less, and I thought that was a steal!!!

loved that little 8 track by the way...
September 2, 2004 7:17:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>From: mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
>Date: 9/1/2004 7:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <znr1094068248k@trad>
>
>
>In article <20040901145359.15985.00003034@mb-m21.aol.com> egghd@aol.com
>writes:
>
>> You are implying that people who use pro tools are doing so only becasue
>other
>> use it? That's insulting.
>
>My understanding of what John meant is that those who use it do so
>because it's what the paying clients want. Nothing wrong with that.

That's more what I had in mind. Thanks.


>
>But if the proverbial "everbody" who has money to spend in a studio
>wants to do it in a ProTools studio, you either provide it or lose
>some business.
>

Exactly.

>--
>I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
>However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
>lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
>you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
>and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
>



-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com
September 2, 2004 7:40:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>The turnover rate is more like once every five years except for folks who
>seem to believe they are crippled if they don't have the very latest gizmo
>to brag about. Myself, I'm utterly amazed people think of Pro Tools as being
>expensive.

Well, don't you think it's coming to that? Clients already choose PT studios
without really realizing that a studio can have PT and yet have an engineer who
knows not how to place a microphone. I can forsee clients saying, "Oh, you
guys only have Mix and not HD... I think I'll go down the street." If they
aren't saying that already that is. You can substitute the future PT platform
names in place of Mix and HD. But then, they've already improved on HD,
haven't they? Isn't Accel the new HD?

And yes, I do think $5,000 for a PCI card and some software is steep.
Remember, you've laid out 5k and still can't record, until you pick out a
suitable proprietary interface. Like I said I'm looking for a PT system now.
I can't afford to be without it it seems. But I don't honestly think it will
help me do better work. It'll just help me get more business. I'm all for
that, I just resent the machine which has created this false deity. (I sounded
all serious there!)

>--
>Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
>Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
>Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!


-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com
September 2, 2004 7:45:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>It's list price is something around $1300 (street price is less) for 8
>in/out and you can add 8 more through a light pipe. Damn man, I paid
>$3800 for a tascam 388 back in 86/87 when I was much younger and made
>less, and I thought that was a steal!!!
>
>loved that little 8 track by the way...
>

>From: Danny Keep@Your.com

Danny,

I'm not sure what platform you're referring to? As I mentioned before, when I
say that I feel PT is expensive, I'm talking about TDM based systems, not LE.
-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com
September 2, 2004 7:45:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

John wrote:

>>It's list price is something around $1300 (street price is less) for 8
>>in/out and you can add 8 more through a light pipe. Damn man, I paid
>>$3800 for a tascam 388 back in 86/87 when I was much younger and made
>>less, and I thought that was a steal!!!
>>
>>loved that little 8 track by the way...
>>
>
>
>>From: Danny Keep@Your.com
>
>
> Danny,
>
> I'm not sure what platform you're referring to? As I mentioned before, when I
> say that I feel PT is expensive, I'm talking about TDM based systems, not LE.
> -John Vice
> www.summertimestudios.com

I don't know enough about PT to debate between the models and such but
the lower end stuff is fairly cheap. I used the system that has the bix
automated mixer associated with it and didn't car for it. there were to
many buttons to push to be able to do the most simple thing. I like
analog boards so I would never consider one of the other "higher end"
set ups.

I know where you are coming from and the only reason I would consider PT
is because there are some clients I have that just don't get it and if
they don't get it then I won't get money. It is that simple. If you need
to sell someone brown ice-cream because they don't like chocolate then
you do it -
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:07:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I can forsee clients saying, "Oh, you
guys only have Mix and not HD... I think I'll go down the street." >>

How is this any different than when people said "Oh, you guys have an MCI and
not a Studer... I think I'll go down the street."?

<<Like I said I'm looking for a PT system now.
I can't afford to be without it it seems. But I don't honestly think it will
help me do better work.>>

When the track count & plugin needs get really high, you MAY change that
assessment.



Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:52:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny wrote:
> Geoff Wood wrote:

>
> PT got to be the thing because it was the first system that worked
> well. it isn't the best at all anymore but people don't know anything
> but what they hear.

Same reason that NS-10s are the studio monitor of choice, and that creative
people only use Macs.

geoff
!