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Removing music from a track to just leave vocals

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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:42:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Do you know of any programs that can take away the music from a mp3 track
just to leave the vocals.


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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:42:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Do you know of any programs that can take away the music from a mp3 track
> just to leave the vocals.

jeez, the vocals are only barely present in an mp3 to begin with ;) 
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:27:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In a word, not really...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound Recording
www.xssound.com

"Edward Doyle" <edward_doyle_jnr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ch0s35$6f4$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Do you know of any programs that can take away the music from a mp3 track
> just to leave the vocals.
>
>
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> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004
>
>
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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 12:40:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ch0s35$6f4$1@titan.btinternet.com> edward_doyle_jnr@hotmail.com writes:

> Do you know of any programs that can take away the music from a mp3 track
> just to leave the vocals.

There was some discussion here about using a surround decoder to do
this. Look it up or wait for the answer to come around again. They
always do.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 1:17:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1093952420k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com says...
> There was some discussion here about using a surround decoder to do
> this. Look it up or wait for the answer to come around again. They
> always do.

Actually, that turned out to be incorrect. I researched this one pretty
intensively a few months ago. You'd *think* it would be just as simple
as the "remove-the-vocals" type plugins (which remove all center-panned
information), but it's just not. It takes some DSP processing, and it's
a rough approximation at best - it's certainly not of a quality you
could use in a production.

The closest I've seen is a feature in Adobe Audition that can boost or
cut center-panned audio. There's also a WinAmp plugin called
"CenterCut" that claims to do it:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic...


--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 2:36:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay,

> Actually, that turned out to be incorrect. <

Did you actually try playing a stereo mix through a ProLogic decoder? When I
play stereo music through my HT receiver set to ProLogic, center-panned
vocals come out the center channel, and music without vocals comes out the
left and right.

> You'd *think* it would be just as simple as the "remove-the-vocals" type
plugins (which remove all center-panned information) <

No, that's not a good approach because it removes everything panned to the
center, including the bass and kick drum. So at the minimum you have to roll
off the low end before combining the channels (where one channel's polarity
is reversed).

Also, it's often impossible to do this kind of manipulation to MP3 files
because the lossy compression destroys the critical balance between
channels. For best results you need the original recording, not an MP3
version.

--Ethan
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 6:54:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1b9e44663234385c9897fe@news-east.giganews.com> jay+news@jay.fm writes:

> The closest I've seen is a feature in Adobe Audition that can boost or
> cut center-panned audio. There's also a WinAmp plugin called
> "CenterCut" that claims to do it:

The problem (as stated) was to leave the vocal (presumably in the
center) and cut everything else. Most people want to remove the vocal
and leave everything else. That's easy in concept and works
more-or-less depending on how well centered the vocal is, and how much
of it (in the form of reverb or other processing) is off center.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:32:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay Levitt" <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b9e44663234385c9897fe@news-east.giganews.com...
>
> Actually, that turned out to be incorrect. I researched this one pretty
> intensively a few months ago. You'd *think* it would be just as simple
> as the "remove-the-vocals" type plugins (which remove all center-panned
> information), but it's just not. It takes some DSP processing, and it's
> a rough approximation at best - it's certainly not of a quality you
> could use in a production.
>

That's not surprising since it ISN'T simple to take vocal out of the music
either (and at least sound very good). Nobody outside of audio recording
people really understand why this is. It takes WAY too much time to try and
explain to the uninitiated what can and can't be done, and why. Especially
when they think there should just "be some program invented by now that
would do all that for you at the press of a button". The fact that karaoke
players exists probably confuses the issue and makes them believe there's
simple machines that add and remove stuff from music at will.

> The closest I've seen is a feature in Adobe Audition that can boost or
> cut center-panned audio. There's also a WinAmp plugin called
> "CenterCut" that claims to do it:
>
> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic...
>

Regardless of what you do find the closest thing to the master (or the
master itself if possible) to try and work your magic on. It will be
extremely hard even then but not near as bad as once it's been converted to
MP3.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 11:31:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 31 Aug 2004 14:54:02 -0400, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> In article <MPG.1b9e44663234385c9897fe@news-east.giganews.com> jay+news@jay.fm writes:
>
>> The closest I've seen is a feature in Adobe Audition that can boost or
>> cut center-panned audio. There's also a WinAmp plugin called
>> "CenterCut" that claims to do it:
>
> The problem (as stated) was to leave the vocal (presumably in the
> center) and cut everything else. Most people want to remove the vocal
> and leave everything else. That's easy in concept and works
> more-or-less depending on how well centered the vocal is, and how much
> of it (in the form of reverb or other processing) is off center.
>

I'd bet that they do this sort of thing at Ft. Meade. Good luck getting
them to tell you just what they're doing. :) 

It would be an interesting Master's project for a DSP program.

You could probably do a rough approximation using the standard vocal
elimination algorithm, then subtract the result from the original
signal.

The deamon would be in the details, of course, and would most likely
involve some adaptive filtering based on the spectral content of the
singer--so long as you're not processing "Real Time" (always a
misleading term) it's not too difficult conceptually.

My guess is the result would be more appropriate to an intelligence
operation than to doing anything musically useful.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 11:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ym4Zc.198$EB6.2@trndny08> cdkrug@aol.com writes:

> You could probably do a rough approximation using the standard vocal
> elimination algorithm, then subtract the result from the original
> signal.

There's something that doesn't sound right about that. The "standard
vocal elimiation" algorithm is left-minus-right. Subtract that from
the original signal (I assume you mean subtract it from each channel
of the original) and that gives you

Left channel = L - (L - R) = R
Right channel = R - (L - R) = L

Good work. You've just reversed the channels.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:16:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 31 Aug 2004 18:11:09 -0400, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> In article <ym4Zc.198$EB6.2@trndny08> cdkrug@aol.com writes:
>
>> You could probably do a rough approximation using the standard vocal
>> elimination algorithm, then subtract the result from the original
>> signal.
>
> There's something that doesn't sound right about that. The "standard
> vocal elimiation" algorithm is left-minus-right. Subtract that from
> the original signal (I assume you mean subtract it from each channel
> of the original) and that gives you
>
> Left channel = L - (L - R) = R
> Right channel = R - (L - R) = L
>
> Good work. You've just reversed the channels.
>

Well? Okay, a REALLY rough approximation . . .

Any rougher it'd be downright jagged.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 8:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <l4adnbomNotAEancRVn-rw@giganews.com>, "Ethan Winer" <ethanw
at ethanwiner dot com> says...
> > Actually, that turned out to be incorrect. <
>
> Did you actually try playing a stereo mix through a ProLogic decoder? When I
> play stereo music through my HT receiver set to ProLogic, center-panned
> vocals come out the center channel, and music without vocals comes out the
> left and right.

I admit I didn't actually try it; I just read some white papers that
claimed that Dolby Pro Logic's center channel was L+R. Do you get this
only at vocal frequencies, or can you take a left/center/right sine wave
and hear it left/center/right? Is there really no bleed at all? I find
it hard to believe that nobody else has duplicated that ability.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:41:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay,

> I just read some white papers that claimed that Dolby Pro Logic's center
channel was L+R. <

I haven't spent enough time investigating this either, but it sure seems to
me that anything panned to the center in a stereo mix is routed by ProLogic
to the center speaker, *and out of* the left and right speakers.

> Do you get this only at vocal frequencies <

Beats me. I will check this more throughly when I get a chance.

> I find it hard to believe that nobody else has duplicated that ability. <

My guess is either nobody has yet thought of using ProLogic for this, or
maybe Dolby, who owns the patent, won't allow anyone else to sell a ProLogic
decoder program for Karaoke use.

--Ethan
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 11:59:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ed, are you "The Guy"?
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:44:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1093970871k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com says...
> In article <MPG.1b9e44663234385c9897fe@news-east.giganews.com> jay+news@jay.fm writes:
>
> > The closest I've seen is a feature in Adobe Audition that can boost or
> > cut center-panned audio. There's also a WinAmp plugin called
> > "CenterCut" that claims to do it:
>
> The problem (as stated) was to leave the vocal (presumably in the
> center) and cut everything else.

It's less than obvious from the name, but CenterCut can actually cut the
center or the sides. I have been meaning to convert it to a VST plugin.
One of these days I'll get around to it.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:56:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <PeadnT8lbub69KrcRVn-oQ@giganews.com>, "Ethan Winer" <ethanw
at ethanwiner dot com> says...
> I haven't spent enough time investigating this either, but it sure seems to
> me that anything panned to the center in a stereo mix is routed by ProLogic
> to the center speaker, *and out of* the left and right speakers.

Experiment 1: A CD track of me saying "left, right, center" panned
appropriately. At first blush, only "center" is heard from the center;
upon closer investigation, "left" and "right" are still present, but at
a much lower volume and with nothing present over (guessing) 250Hz.
Interestingly, some of the background noise and breath right before each
word appear to be present, full spectrum, in the center.

Experiment 2: If I take the above and mix in continuous sounds panned
left, right, and center, the "main vocal" *still* is panned mostly to
the appropriate speaker. However, the "background vocals" are still
present in the center speaker. My surround setup is horrible - the
center speaker's actually a different type of speaker altogether - so I
can't be sure if it's at the same level as the side speakers or not. It
seems to be either slightly softer or slightly rolled off.

Sounds like Dolby is doing what Audition does, and what CenterCut claims
to do, but at a much, much higher quality - moment-by-moment EQ tricks.
It still can't completely isolate the center, though.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 1:43:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay,

> Experiment 1: A CD track of me saying "left, right, center" <

Wow, fabulous. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

> Sounds like Dolby is doing what Audition does, and what CenterCut claims
to do, but at a much, much higher quality - moment-by-moment EQ tricks. <

Yeah, it must be a fairly tricky algorithm. Now all we need is a plug-in
version!

--Ethan
!