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More Firewire /buss power questions

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September 1, 2004 8:04:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

the M-audio 410 firewire interface can be buss powered from the 6 pin to
6 pin firewire cable
some fire wire ports only have 4 pins requireing a 6 pin to 4 pin cable
and the supplied(by M-audio) wall wart

will I see any improvment If I use the wall wart even though my mac
sends power out the 6pin to 6 pin cable
might I damage anything if my buss is suppling power and I also use the
wall wart
can I use the 410 as a stand alone preamp into my minidisc (rack mount)
without a computer
I tried M-Audio for all these question but it has been 3 days and they
have not even acknowledged my email
These questions are not covered in the manuals
Thanks
George
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 8:05:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"George" <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:g.p.gleason-D9E545.00045901092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> the M-audio 410 firewire interface can be buss powered from the 6 pin to
> 6 pin firewire cable
> some fire wire ports only have 4 pins requireing a 6 pin to 4 pin cable
> and the supplied(by M-audio) wall wart
>
> will I see any improvment If I use the wall wart even though my mac
> sends power out the 6pin to 6 pin cable
> might I damage anything if my buss is suppling power and I also use the
> wall wart
> can I use the 410 as a stand alone preamp into my minidisc (rack mount)
> without a computer
> I tried M-Audio for all these question but it has been 3 days and they
> have not even acknowledged my email
> These questions are not covered in the manuals
> Thanks
> George


I asked M-Audio this exact same question about a month ago. They said that
if you are using a six pin to six pin arrangement (as you and I are), then
there is absolutely no advantage to wall wart powering. In other words, if
you are already powering the 410 with bus power, that is enough. They said
the wall wart won't damage anything, but there is no advantage to doing this
whatsoever.

The reason I thought the dual power arrangement might work better was
because I was seeking a little more mic gain for my lazy Shure SM7B Dynamic
mic. So I figured by dual powering (bus and wart), that it might give me
some extra boost.

Not so. And I found out after some tweaking that the preamps were plenty hot
enough for my SM7B.

Darren
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:12:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <g.p.gleason-D9E545.00045901092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net> g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net writes:

> the M-audio 410 firewire interface can be buss powered from the 6 pin to
> 6 pin firewire cable
> some fire wire ports only have 4 pins requireing a 6 pin to 4 pin cable
> and the supplied(by M-audio) wall wart
>
> will I see any improvment If I use the wall wart even though my mac
> sends power out the 6pin to 6 pin cable

Like so many other things in this business, it depends. In this case,
it depends on your computer and perhaps even the cable you're using.
But in order to see an improvement, you need to see some deficiency so
you'll know there's an improvement. There's no reason for it to sound
any better - voltage is surely regulated inside the box and the 410
interface surely doesn't depend on the computer's power supply for
regulation and filtering.

I had a TASCAM US-122 (USB-powered) in for review and found that it
indeed had a powering problem with my laptop computer. When connected
to the laptop, it would die when the phantom power switch on the
US-122 was turned on. It didn't do this when connected to two desktop
computers. I can only attribute this to poorer load regulation of the
power provided to the laptop USB port. But in this case, the
"improvement" when connected to a desktop computer was clearly
apparent. I had considered taking apart a USB cable and powering the
US-122 externally to prove my conjecture, but didn't bother. It was
pretty obvious.

If it works when powered from your Firewire port, then I wouldn't
expect it to work any better when powered externally.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
September 1, 2004 2:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <g.p.gleason-D9E545.00045901092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net> g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
>>the M-audio 410 firewire interface can be buss powered from the 6 pin to
>>6 pin firewire cable
>>some fire wire ports only have 4 pins requireing a 6 pin to 4 pin cable
>>and the supplied(by M-audio) wall wart
>>
>>will I see any improvment If I use the wall wart even though my mac
>>sends power out the 6pin to 6 pin cable
>
>
> Like so many other things in this business, it depends. In this case,
> it depends on your computer and perhaps even the cable you're using.
> But in order to see an improvement, you need to see some deficiency so
> you'll know there's an improvement. There's no reason for it to sound
> any better - voltage is surely regulated inside the box and the 410
> interface surely doesn't depend on the computer's power supply for
> regulation and filtering.
>
> I had a TASCAM US-122 (USB-powered) in for review and found that it
> indeed had a powering problem with my laptop computer. When connected
> to the laptop, it would die when the phantom power switch on the
> US-122 was turned on. It didn't do this when connected to two desktop
> computers. I can only attribute this to poorer load regulation of the
> power provided to the laptop USB port. But in this case, the
> "improvement" when connected to a desktop computer was clearly
> apparent. I had considered taking apart a USB cable and powering the
> US-122 externally to prove my conjecture, but didn't bother. It was
> pretty obvious.
>
> If it works when powered from your Firewire port, then I wouldn't
> expect it to work any better when powered externally.



FIrewire supplies an ungodly amount of power, esp compared to USB,
something like 6A. It was originally designed to be a Winchester drive
interface.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:06:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <PZmdncD48pIslKvcRVn-iA@omsoft.com> sowhat@nospam.edu writes:

> FIrewire supplies an ungodly amount of power, esp compared to USB,
> something like 6A. It was originally designed to be a Winchester drive
> interface.

My laptop says it supplies 500 mA on the USB port. I've seen in one
place that this is the standard (whoever's standard it is) but I've
also heard that the standard is 200 mA. In any case, the US-122 draws
less than 200 mA when it's running, even when supplying phantom power.
However, the inrush current when you throw the phantom power switch is
substantial. I measured it and forgot the exact value (I may have
posted it in a message here. Google it) but it was in excess of a
couple of amps for a few milliseconds.

That may have just been enough to drag down the power long enough for
the device to think that it's been disconnected. Un-plugging and
re-plugging the USB cable with the US-122's phantom power switch on
brings it back to life, with phantom power. According to the manual,
you're supposed to switch on the phantom power after it's connected to
the USB port, but in the case of this one computer, that simply
wouldn't work. TASCAM assured me that it worked with "several
laptops."


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:02:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1094039437k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com says...
> apparent. I had considered taking apart a USB cable and powering the
> US-122 externally to prove my conjecture, but didn't bother. It was
> pretty obvious.

Just use a active USB-Hub.
--
/ Peter Kaersaa
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:40:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1ba0d5ea17ab1b94af@news.stofanet.dk> pete@Nospam.127.0.0.1 writes:

> In article <znr1094039437k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com says...
> > apparent. I had considered taking apart a USB cable and powering the
> > US-122 externally to prove my conjecture, but didn't bother. It was
> > pretty obvious.
>
> Just use a active USB-Hub.

This is not in the spirit of the product. With the US122 (as it's
supposed to work) you need nothing but the laptop computer, US122, a
USB cable, and microphones and you can make a 2-track recording. If
you "have to" use an active USB hub, not only does that require an
extra piece of hardware (the hub), but one extra USB cable, a wall
wart, and a place to plug it in. One should not "have" to add this
extra stuff in order to use a product that was intended to work on its
own.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!