Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Recorded with Harvey last week...

Last response: in Home Audio
Share
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 7:07:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, my band decided to do a new demo for the new promo pack we're
putting together. We've been getting some nicer gigs, opening for some
(b&c-list) national acts, etc, and decided that we needed something a bit
more current (we have a whole new rhythm section since the last demo) and
flashy for the promo pack. So, I hooked up with Harvey, he gave me a great
deal, we went in on a Saturday and recorded the basic tracks, and did a few
instrument overdubs (synth horn stabs, misc percussion, etc). We came back
the next day and laid down the vocals, and then came back later that week
for the final mix before Harvey mastered it. We got the finished disc that
weekend, so our total turnaround was less than 1 week. Granted, we weren't
doing anything complicated, we only recorded a few minutes of about 12 songs
rather than recording a whole album of original material, but it was still
faster and more painless than I expected.

In retrospect, I wish we had spread out the vocals over 2 days, it was
just too much at once and the vocals all sound a bit strained on the tracks
we recorded toward the end of the day, but for its purpose the results are
more than adequate. Also, it was the band's decision to get it all done that
day, Harvey was more than willing to let us spread it out over more days,
but we really wanted to get it done, and we knew it would better than our
previous demo, so we went ahead and got it done while we were all available.

Anyway, here are a few of the tracks. These are all about 30 seconds to
1 minute of music, compressed as mp3s, so the average file size is about
500k-700k.

http://www.southbound.org/audio/GivingItUpForYourLove.m...
http://www.southbound.org/audio/FeelingAllright.mp3
http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
http://www.southbound.org/audio/SweetHomeAlabama.mp3
http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3

Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...

ryanm

More about : recorded harvey week

Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:44:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...
>

There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving it Up,
overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom snare mic,
overall the low end seems to need some manageing..vocals sound pretty good to
me..performance wise.
Is this analog or digital?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:00:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040901164408.18151.00002483@mb-m03.aol.com> blindjoni@aol.com writes:

> There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving it Up,
> overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom snare mic,
> overall the low end seems to need some manageing..

Sounds to me like you're describing an MP3 problem.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:38:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1094080275k@trad
> In article <20040901164408.18151.00002483@mb-m03.aol.com>
> blindjoni@aol.com writes:
>
>> There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving
>> it Up, overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom
>> snare mic, overall the low end seems to need some manageing..
>
> Sounds to me like you're describing an MP3 problem.

Sounds to me like the clips have been intentionally corrupted.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:37:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:

> Well, my band decided to do a new demo for the new promo pack we're
>putting together. We've been getting some nicer gigs, opening for some
>(b&c-list) national acts, etc, and decided that we needed something a bit
>more current (we have a whole new rhythm section since the last demo) and
>flashy for the promo pack. So, I hooked up with Harvey, he gave me a great
>deal, we went in on a Saturday and recorded the basic tracks, and did a few
>instrument overdubs (synth horn stabs, misc percussion, etc). We came back
>the next day and laid down the vocals, and then came back later that week
>for the final mix before Harvey mastered it. We got the finished disc that
>weekend, so our total turnaround was less than 1 week. Granted, we weren't
>doing anything complicated, we only recorded a few minutes of about 12 songs
>rather than recording a whole album of original material, but it was still
>faster and more painless than I expected.

Nope, I didn't master it; Scott Headstream our second engineer, mastered your
tracks.

> In retrospect, I wish we had spread out the vocals over 2 days, it was
>just too much at once and the vocals all sound a bit strained on the tracks
>we recorded toward the end of the day, but for its purpose the results are
>more than adequate. Also, it was the band's decision to get it all done that
>day, Harvey was more than willing to let us spread it out over more days,
>but we really wanted to get it done, and we knew it would better than our
>previous demo, so we went ahead and got it done while we were all available.

So come back in and let's do the vocals right. Sheesh!

> Anyway, here are a few of the tracks. These are all about 30 seconds to
>1 minute of music, compressed as mp3s, so the average file size is about
>500k-700k.
>
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/GivingItUpForYourLove.m...
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/FeelingAllright.mp3
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/SweetHomeAlabama.mp3
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
>http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3
>
> Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...

I have a copy of the disc that you got from Scott and I would have mixed and
mastered it a little differently, but that's gonna be true of any of our
engineers' mastering; we all hear stuff a little differently. I thought the bass
was a little too woofy for some songs on the actual CD, and some of the vocals
were mixed a little too low for my taste. The intro on one of the Santana songs
is way too long IMHO. And one of the tracks on the CD seems way too loud,
compared to the others.

I'm up for new vocals, re-mix, and a new master, if you are.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 2:50:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

No kick? I kind of liked the kick on black magic woman. usually on the
1st beat and then on the and of 3. kind of dynamic playing and not in
yer face
> There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving it Up,
> overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom snare mic,
> overall the low end seems to need some manageing..vocals sound pretty good to
> me..performance wise.
> Is this analog or digital?
>
>
> John A. Chiara
> SOS Recording Studio
> Live Sound Inc.
> Albany, NY
> www.sosrecording.net
> 518-449-1637
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:03:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way to low!
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:03:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way too low!

As I understand it, the band wanted the bass very low in the mix.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 3:51:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving it Up,
> overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom snare mic,
> overall the low end seems to need some manageing..vocals sound pretty good
to
> me..performance wise.
> Is this analog or digital?
>
It was digital, on an MDR24. There *is* an overall bass problem, but
it's more in the bass player's hands and instrument more than in the mix.
The bass player plays a mexi Fender jazz bass with cheap electronics, and he
plays it with a pick, and absolutely refuses to use another bass or alter
his playing style. He's only been with us a few months and we may be
replacing him before the end of the year if he really isn't willing to take
feedback on his tone and style. So, the bass did come out flabby, but I
didn't feel like going back and redoing his parts, and he would be extremely
offended if I did anyway. Also, the mp3 compression probably didn't help
any. It's 128kb with the Lame encoder, but the artifacts are still pretty
audible.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:02:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
news:bn4dj0tl1j1eipcide70f3elg736angbct@4ax.com...
>
> So come back in and let's do the vocals right. Sheesh!
>
Well, the band accuses me of over-analyzing and over-tweaking
everything, and I've been outvoted. They're right to an extent, I do tend to
want to retake everything that isn't just the way I like it, but to me
that's an asset, not a fault. Personally, I'd like to retake the bass parts
too, but they say "good enough for a demo", so it'll probably stay like it
is. The overriding sentiment is "this ain't the White Album, it's a quick
demo to give to the agents who have been asking for one for months".

> I'm up for new vocals, re-mix, and a new master, if you are.
>
I'll certainly take it to the band, but in the end, the majority rule
will... well, rule. I'll let you know, though.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:04:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:loadnbHNB_c_5KvcRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>
> Sounds to me like the clips have been intentionally corrupted.
>
If, by that, you mean compressed to mp3, then you're right. I had to
make them downloadable on the web site, and I knew no one here wanted to
download full-sized wavs.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:08:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:S2wZc.19825$CG3.1331534@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way to low!
>
That was largely intentional... an unfortunate side effect of band
politics. Our current bass player isn't doing the job, in my opinion, but
mine isn't the prevailing opinion at this time. He's not even playing the
right part on Oye Como Va, and the bass is part of the signature on that
song. The problem is that we needed the demo now, so we went with what we
had.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 8:40:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sounds amaturish for lack of a better description. Needs some TLC.
September 2, 2004 10:36:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm certainly no expert....

I listened to Black Magic Woman...

Sounded good to me except the vocal was very muddy, no high end at all...

I could not hear the SSS when he sang

"got me o blind I can't ee"


The drums came through with plenty of high end so it's not an MP3 issue.

Thanks fo asking

Mark
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 12:03:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message
news:10jdadocat88mae@corp.supernews.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:loadnbHNB_c_5KvcRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>>
>> Sounds to me like the clips have been intentionally corrupted.
>>
> If, by that, you mean compressed to mp3, then you're right. I had
> to make them downloadable on the web site, and I knew no one here
> wanted to download full-sized wavs.
>

No, I'm talking about the obvious noise and grunge that many MP3 coding jobs
seem to avoid.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <9g6dj09ffokv42h6m57bn00k424uatfotq@4ax.com> hargerst@airmail.net writes:

> >Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way too low!

> As I understand it, the band wanted the bass very low in the mix.

I hope this wasn't a case of "The bass player isn't very good and
doesn't know the song, so mix him down low." Do people still do that?
I used to get it more than I liked.

[Later] I see from reading further messages that this was indeed
the case. Sorry 'bout that. Tell anyone who asked "Oh, we
recorded this demo in the bass player's studio." <g>



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:20:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I don't understand why the band, if they don't like the bass player style
(or lack of it),
> don't simply go purchase Trilogy (Bass Sampler) or get a Studio Musician
and retrack the
> bass parts??? If the song I heard is an indication of the rest of the
tunes, it would take
> about 6 hours to fix. Either way they are only going to be paying about
$200 - $300. The
> results would easily justify the expense.
>
Because the bass player would get offended at being cut out of the demo
and quit, and we're not certain that's what we want yet. Or at least, that's
the majority consensus, I know where I stand on the issue. Like I said, it
has more to do with band politics than the recording itself.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:32:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
news:bn4dj0tl1j1eipcide70f3elg736angbct@4ax.com...
>
> I'm up for new vocals, re-mix, and a new master, if you are.
>
And Harvey, tell that for a surprisingly reasonable fee, you'll send the
track over here and I'll put a real bass on it...


--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:43:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dave Martin wrote:

> And Harvey, tell that for a surprisingly reasonable fee, you'll send the
> track over here and I'll put a real bass on it...

Exactly. There are way to many musicians around, who can really play, to not
avail oneself of the resource. And with high speed cable/DSL, tracks can be
transferred back and forth. It's a no brainer to me. BTW this is not
directed at Harvey, but rather the band leaders.
--
Nathan

'What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?'
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:43:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Nathan West" <natewest@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:41373192.DB21371D@nc.rr.com...
> Dave Martin wrote:
>
> > And Harvey, tell that for a surprisingly reasonable fee, you'll send the
> > track over here and I'll put a real bass on it...
>
> Exactly. There are way to many musicians around, who can really play, to
not
> avail oneself of the resource. And with high speed cable/DSL, tracks can
be
> transferred back and forth. It's a no brainer to me. BTW this is not
> directed at Harvey, but rather the band leaders.
>
As I mentioned in another part of this thread, the net result of doing
this would be the same as firing the bass player entirely (since he would
get offended, cry, and quit over being cut from the demo), and, due to band
politics, that's not an option right now. It has my vote, I even have a new
bass player picked out who is ready to step in and play, but unfortunately,
our band operates as a democracy, and majority rule wins out over my
opinion. We'll see. There are other things going on as well, so this whole
thing may be resolved in the next 30 days and I may bring a professional
bass player in to not only retake the tracks, but also to be a permanent
member of the band. In fact, I didn't want to record with our current lineup
to begin with, but we needed the demo ASAP in order to get our promo pack in
front of the right people for some events we would like to play, and the
guys booking these events aren't going to nitpick the recording, they just
want to hear that we can play, and that we can play a decent variety of
music that will be appropriate for those events. Trust me, bass levels and
clarity on the high end of the vocals will *not* come up.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 9:01:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
news:9g6dj09ffokv42h6m57bn00k424uatfotq@4ax.com...
> "wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way too low!
>
> As I understand it, the band wanted the bass very low in the mix.
>
> Harvey Gerst
> Indian Trail Recording Studio
> http://www.ITRstudio.com/


With no disrespect intended, this raises an interesting point.

How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?

I do, because I know that I work better by myself. quicker, I make better
decisions faster, and I dont need to explain myself along the way. If they
don't like it, I do revisions as per their request - but 90% of the time I
dont need to.

I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not even
my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my instinct.

So, who kicks em out? Why / Why not?


Geoff


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 10:57:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> > I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
> > explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not
> even
> > my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my
> instinct.
> >
> In the end, though, they *are* the client, and you wouldn't be doing
> your job if you didn't give them what they wanted. Even if they walk out
> with something you're not proud of, it's their money, so unless they're
> hiring you as a producer as well, it's really their call, no matter how
> ugly, isn't it?
>


Hey, you snipped the next thing I said which was basically if they aren't
happy, I do revisions, but, as I said, if I do my thing, and get it sounding
as good as I can, 90% or more of the time they dont' ask, and are in fact
totally happy with the mix.

You are right, they are the client, and by getting the mixes sounding as
good as possible, I give myself the best shot of having them come back .If I
let the band dictate the mix, and then they aren't happy anyway - or other
people have loads of criticism for the final product - where does that leave
me? If the client doesn't like it, ok. I lose one client. If I follow what
the band say and it sounds like arse, then I lose anyones potential business
who hears it!!

But yep, you are right - the cleint can ask for whatever they want. I try to
encourage them to give me a shot before they start gettting knee-deep in
mixing themselves, thats all.

Good luck with scoring some cool gigs - hope it goes well.

cheers

Geoff

> ryanm
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.749 / Virus Database: 501 - Release Date: 9/1/2004
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 12:40:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10jet8u4s0q1tcb@corp.supernews.com> ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com writes:

> I even have a new
> bass player picked out who is ready to step in and play, but unfortunately,
> our band operates as a democracy, and majority rule wins out over my
> opinion.

This is fine when you're a group of friends who like to get together
and play music. But once you decide you're good enough for other
people to listen to, you HAVE to be good enough. Sometimes a democracy
isn't the best way to run a band.

Since the intent of this demo is to get gigs, it's important that
whoever hears it doesn't think there's a weak member of the band,
particularly one as important as the bass player. It would almost be
better to have a solid bass on the demo, then have your regular bass
player show up at gigs, assuming that he'd get bettter quickly.
Otherwise, sorry, Charlie, but business is business. "You're fired."

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
September 3, 2004 1:22:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message news:<10jcauv3f31jm8d@corp.supernews.com>...
> Well, my band decided to do a new demo for the new promo pack we're
> putting together. We've been getting some nicer gigs, opening for some
> (b&c-list) national acts, etc, and decided that we needed something a bit
> more current (we have a whole new rhythm section since the last demo) and
> flashy for the promo pack. So, I hooked up with Harvey, he gave me a great
> deal, we went in on a Saturday and recorded the basic tracks, and did a few
> instrument overdubs (synth horn stabs, misc percussion, etc). We came back
> the next day and laid down the vocals, and then came back later that week
> for the final mix before Harvey mastered it. We got the finished disc that
> weekend, so our total turnaround was less than 1 week. Granted, we weren't
> doing anything complicated, we only recorded a few minutes of about 12 songs
> rather than recording a whole album of original material, but it was still
> faster and more painless than I expected.
>
> In retrospect, I wish we had spread out the vocals over 2 days, it was
> just too much at once and the vocals all sound a bit strained on the tracks
> we recorded toward the end of the day, but for its purpose the results are
> more than adequate. Also, it was the band's decision to get it all done that
> day, Harvey was more than willing to let us spread it out over more days,
> but we really wanted to get it done, and we knew it would better than our
> previous demo, so we went ahead and got it done while we were all available.
>
> Anyway, here are a few of the tracks. These are all about 30 seconds to
> 1 minute of music, compressed as mp3s, so the average file size is about
> 500k-700k.
>
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/GivingItUpForYourLove.m...
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/FeelingAllright.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/SweetHomeAlabama.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3
>
> Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...
>
> ryanm

Those demos are just fine. You got a lot of studio type people here
who will analyze it based on what they would do. Studio engineers
won't be listening to the demo. Prospective gigs will. You can't
possibly need better demos. Skip the analysis paralysis and get out
there and do your gigs.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
September 3, 2004 10:28:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <eAxZc.1690$mZ2.142130@news02.tsnz.net>, Geoff Duncan
<nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> With no disrespect intended, this raises an interesting point.
>
> How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?
>
> I do, because I know that I work better by myself. quicker, I make better
> decisions faster, and I dont need to explain myself along the way. If they
> don't like it, I do revisions as per their request - but 90% of the time I
> dont need to.
>
> I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
> explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not even
> my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my instinct.
>
> So, who kicks em out? Why / Why not?
>
>
> Geoff




I sure as hell would never work with you ;>

I think you give your clients too little credit.

If people are really bugging you, then ask them to wait until you get
the mix to where you want it. Then let them listen and change what they
want. Print a mix first before they get at it if you have to.

I was like you when I first started. Then I found out that I could
actually get *better* mixes by listening to what my clients were
looking for. And I am not shitting you. You also get happier clients.

Happy clients means you get to keep mixing if you're doing this for a
living.





David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
September 3, 2004 11:34:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What I do is first, you separate the tracking and the mixing day wise.
Then I let them know there will be a certain amount of time involved
in me setting up pre-mixes. Basically I get things to a decent
sounding serviceable point and then let them tell what to fix, what
they don't like etc. But the other thing I do which is somewhat of a
remedy to the same problem, is I either establish that one or two
people will be there for the mixing, and then maybe a listening
session for the rest of the members, or I establish who the point man
is with the understanding that I will answer to that person, and they
have the final say. That way I am not listening to a bunch of
conflicting voices. We all know that the band members won't agree so
if you do every members suggestions you will either ruin it or never
get it done.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com



"Geoff Duncan" <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:<eAxZc.1690$mZ2.142130@news02.tsnz.net>...
> "Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
> news:9g6dj09ffokv42h6m57bn00k424uatfotq@4ax.com...
> > "wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way too low!
> >
> > As I understand it, the band wanted the bass very low in the mix.
> >
> > Harvey Gerst
> > Indian Trail Recording Studio
> > http://www.ITRstudio.com/
>
>
> With no disrespect intended, this raises an interesting point.
>
> How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?
>
> I do, because I know that I work better by myself. quicker, I make better
> decisions faster, and I dont need to explain myself along the way. If they
> don't like it, I do revisions as per their request - but 90% of the time I
> dont need to.
>
> I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
> explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not even
> my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my instinct.
>
> So, who kicks em out? Why / Why not?
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 3:30:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mmeprod@mmeproductions.com (Mike) wrote:

>What I do is first, you separate the tracking and the mixing day wise.

Did that! They mixed several days after they tracked.

> Then I let them know there will be a certain amount of time involved
>in me setting up pre-mixes. Basically I get things to a decent
>sounding serviceable point and then let them tell what to fix, what
>they don't like etc. But the other thing I do which is somewhat of a
>remedy to the same problem, is I either establish that one or two
>people will be there for the mixing, and then maybe a listening
>session for the rest of the members, or I establish who the point man
>is with the understanding that I will answer to that person, and they
>have the final say. That way I am not listening to a bunch of
>conflicting voices. We all know that the band members won't agree so
>if you do every members suggestions you will either ruin it or never
>get it done.

Yup, but when the band is a "democracy", things start to get a little hairy.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 5:06:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message news:030920040228426703%ihate@spamo.com...
: In article <eAxZc.1690$mZ2.142130@news02.tsnz.net>, Geoff Duncan
: <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
:
: > With no disrespect intended, this raises an interesting point.
: >
: > How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?
: >
: > I do, because I know that I work better by myself. quicker, I make better
: > decisions faster, and I dont need to explain myself along the way. If they
: > don't like it, I do revisions as per their request - but 90% of the time I
: > dont need to.
: >
: > I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
: > explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not even
: > my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my instinct.
: >
: > So, who kicks em out? Why / Why not?
: >
: >
: > Geoff

I agree with Geoff.

Sometimes I like a little time by myself with a mix just to label everything and patch plugs
and get it sounding a little like a record. Once I give the band a rough mix like this to
listen to for a couple of days, I look forward to them coming in with a list of where they
want it to go from there. There is no way I can know this, only the band can. How would I know
they want the lead vox down and the backup up dominating a part unless they tell me? How about
when I miss the action on the HH during a fill and only the drummer notices?

To control the session I have the group elect a spokesman and he has the final say. Also the
band understands that the person who created the musical part can be vetoed by the band about
their performance on the part, even if that person is the spokesman. This way I avoid a
perfectionist tambourine player dominating the mix session, as long as the band thinks her
part is fine.

IMHO this is essential to get the record right and keep the band happy. I do not have to
explain why my mix sux cause they help me get it right.

On the other hand. When I play /record/ mix/master my own stuff it sux.

Phil Abbate
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Geoff Duncan" <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:XUVZc.1929$mZ2.160723@news02.tsnz.net...

> I tell a Taxi driver where I want to go - I dont tell him how to
> get me there.

You would if you lived and worked in NYC for any period of time... :-)

Kent
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 4:06:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> ... the net result of doing
> this would be the same as firing the bass player entirely (since he would
> get offended, cry, and quit over being cut from the demo), and, due to
> band
> politics, that's not an option right now.

This is a Mixerman thing, right?
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 6:37:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1094159375k@trad...
>
> Since the intent of this demo is to get gigs, it's important that
> whoever hears it doesn't think there's a weak member of the band,
> particularly one as important as the bass player.
>
I'm not worried about that, the people who will be listening to it
aren't going to be listening as carefully as even the most cursory listen by
any of the members of this forum.

ryanm
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 1:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10jis4r1pv4tc6d@corp.supernews.com> ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com writes:

> > Since the intent of this demo is to get gigs, it's important that
> > whoever hears it doesn't think there's a weak member of the band,

> I'm not worried about that, the people who will be listening to it
> aren't going to be listening as carefully as even the most cursory listen by
> any of the members of this forum.

Is this how much club owners know about music? Could you have done
just as well with a photo and a press release? <g>



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 2:59:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I don't know what you're listening too, John, but certainly the kick is
there, just not in your face like a live concert. Bass is there, too, but
not woofy as I hear it. More like problem with the player. I haven't read
the entire thread yet, but certainly it's much better than what I've heard
of Ryan's before, but that was a different day, his recordings and mostly
live stuff, I believe.

On a personal basis, I'd have probably gone for a little more smack in kick,
and I'd probably have compressed the hell out of the bass to get more
consistency out of the player, but I don't believe either is lacking, just
focused differently than what I'd expect.

But you know what? It actually sounds like what I've heard of Harvey's room
on different cuts I have here. Can't say that I could pick it out of a
dozen rooms, but knowing that it's at ITR was immediately apparent, even
though Ryan didn't say he'd specifically recorded at ITR, just recorded with
Harvey. Mr. Augspurger did a great job on a doublewide. And that bottom
has got to be coming out of the MCI because the baby Soundtracs just ain't
gonna do that.
--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Blind Joni" <blindjoni@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040901164408.18151.00002483@mb-m03.aol.com...
> > Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...
> >
>
> There's no kick on Black Magic woman, lots of woofy bass on Giving it Up,
> overall snare is a little blatty for my taste..lots of bottom snare mic,
> overall the low end seems to need some manageing..vocals sound pretty good
to
> me..performance wise.
> Is this analog or digital?
>
>
> John A. Chiara
> SOS Recording Studio
> Live Sound Inc.
> Albany, NY
> www.sosrecording.net
> 518-449-1637
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 3:02:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Geoff Duncan" <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:eAxZc.1690$mZ2.142130@news02.tsnz.net...
>
> How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?

I use the Glenn Meadows method. If you do it, it costs X. If I do it, it
costs Y. If you help me, it costs X times Y! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

>
> I do, because I know that I work better by myself. quicker, I make better
> decisions faster, and I dont need to explain myself along the way. If they
> don't like it, I do revisions as per their request - but 90% of the time I
> dont need to.
>
> I also kick them out because I don't want to be in this exact scenario -
> explaining to other people why my mixes dont sound great - when its not
even
> my mix, because I did what the band wanted, rather than follow my
instinct.
>
> So, who kicks em out? Why / Why not?
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004
>
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 7:40:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kent Kingery" <me@kentkingery.com> wrote in message
news:VJ%Zc.16609$kr5.5000@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> "Geoff Duncan" <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:XUVZc.1929$mZ2.160723@news02.tsnz.net...
>
> > I tell a Taxi driver where I want to go - I dont tell him how to
> > get me there.
>
> You would if you lived and worked in NYC for any period of time... :-)
>
> Kent
>
>

:)  You are probably right. In reading the other responses to thie question
I posed, that is realistically probably what I do too, if I stop to think it
thru some more. ie I do get a list from the band if revisions are required.

I probably sounded like I was a dictator when it came to mixes - I didn't
mean to - but I can also relate to Harvey's comment that band democracy can
get hairy.

I guess what I try to do is make sure that a) the client is happy and b)
nothing leaves here with my name on it that I am not proud of.

It doesn't always happen that way.

Any other comments?


cheers

Geoff

PS Taxis in Wellington are very good at *not* taking the long way. Even for
tourists.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.749 / Virus Database: 501 - Release Date: 9/1/2004
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 7:40:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Geoff Duncan wrote:

> Any other comments?

Harvey has told them to come back and get redone/redo, including
re-sing, way long time ago measured in usenet-time, with common good
sense applied that had been the end of it. Commenting has however gotten
unavoidable.

The audio is indeed problematic, but not gravely so, just a 6 dB overall
peak at 55 Hz, eq'ing it remedies that aspect of it, I can't see it as
being "grave" when so easy to address. There is less of a mix issue
after the EQ than prior to it.

EQ'ing it does of course not fix the performance in case it needs
fixing, nor *change* the mix, but offer of remedy of both has been given
and it appears to have been a simple "rush" issue.

Adding some kind of bass traps to the room recorded and/or monitored in
may be something to consider to prevent the issue from re-happening.

EQ deployed in CE2k's FFT-filter:

20 Hz -15 dB /* one has to start somewhere */
30 Hz 0 dB /* spline magic */
35 Hz 0 dB /* spline magic */
40 Hz 0 dB /* spline magic */
55 Hz -6 dB /* actual filter response is less */
90 Hz 0 dB /* spline magic */
110 Hz 0 dB /* spline magic */
20 kHz 0 dB /* spline magic */

Splined EQ, max FFT size, Blackmann.

Overall sound quality is very fine with unusually well preserved
transients, certainly cleaner than a lot other stuff out there, the top
end possibly a wee bit sharp, but I would have to listen on something
other than the onboard sound of this old Delltop to verify it, AKG 414
comes to mind ... (?)


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:

>Mr. Augspurger did a great job on a doublewide. And that bottom
>has got to be coming out of the MCI because the baby Soundtracs just ain't
>gonna do that.

Nope, it's the small studio with the Soundtracs Topaz.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 3:07:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Roger W. Norman" <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:4139d7b0$0$19728$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> "Geoff Duncan" <nacnud@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:eAxZc.1690$mZ2.142130@news02.tsnz.net...
> >
> > How many of you kick the band out when mixing, to do your thing?
>
> I use the Glenn Meadows method. If you do it, it costs X. If I do it, it
> costs Y. If you help me, it costs X times Y! <g>
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
>
>

Brilliant.


Geoff


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.749 / Virus Database: 501 - Release Date: 9/1/2004
Anonymous
September 8, 2004 9:19:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"wulfye" <wulfye@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<S2wZc.19825$CG3.1331534@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Also there's practically no bass gtr in the mixes, way to low!


Jeepers Wulfye. Write much? Don't you mean way "two" low.
Learn to write munch.
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 9:16:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1094299708k@trad...
>
> Is this how much club owners know about music? Could you have done
> just as well with a photo and a press release? <g>
>
Nah, they also want to hear that we can play our instruments. But easily
half of the demos they get are boombox recordings of live gigs. Of course,
those demos don't land you the high-paying gigs, but most of the other 50%
are recorded at home, on someone's computer, and sound like it. So we
already have a much better demo than most of the stuff the people booking us
hear, although some of the agents we use book regional and national acts,
and I would assume that those acts would have a "professional" demo.
Regardless, I'm happy with the recording, what I'm not happy with was the
performance.

Incidentally, that little problem is in the process of being fixed.
We've eliminated the problem player, and are in the process of getting a new
bass player up to speed. We will likely go back to ITR and lay new bass
tracks and some better vocals, as time permits (we're booked pretty heavily
and I'm sure Harvey is busy as well).

ryanm
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 12:20:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message news:<10jcauv3f31jm8d@corp.supernews.com>...
> Well, my band decided to do a new demo for the new promo pack we're
> putting together. We've been getting some nicer gigs, opening for some
> (b&c-list) national acts, etc, and decided that we needed something a bit
> more current (we have a whole new rhythm section since the last demo) and
> flashy for the promo pack. So, I hooked up with Harvey, he gave me a great
> deal, we went in on a Saturday and recorded the basic tracks, and did a few
> instrument overdubs (synth horn stabs, misc percussion, etc). We came back
> the next day and laid down the vocals, and then came back later that week
> for the final mix before Harvey mastered it. We got the finished disc that
> weekend, so our total turnaround was less than 1 week. Granted, we weren't
> doing anything complicated, we only recorded a few minutes of about 12 songs
> rather than recording a whole album of original material, but it was still
> faster and more painless than I expected.
>
> In retrospect, I wish we had spread out the vocals over 2 days, it was
> just too much at once and the vocals all sound a bit strained on the tracks
> we recorded toward the end of the day, but for its purpose the results are
> more than adequate. Also, it was the band's decision to get it all done that
> day, Harvey was more than willing to let us spread it out over more days,
> but we really wanted to get it done, and we knew it would better than our
> previous demo, so we went ahead and got it done while we were all available.
>
> Anyway, here are a few of the tracks. These are all about 30 seconds to
> 1 minute of music, compressed as mp3s, so the average file size is about
> 500k-700k.
>
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/GivingItUpForYourLove.m...
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/FeelingAllright.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/SweetHomeAlabama.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
> http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3
>
> Hope you like 'em, and feedback is welcome...
>
> ryanm

WHAT, La Grange with no "AHOW HOW HOW" at the beginning of that
section?

I've never been a big fan of that song but the "AHOW HOW HOW" part is
integral to the appeal of the song.

I'd make sure you fix that on the vocal redux....

Analogeezer
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 1:00:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10k9iksat0h2ke9@corp.supernews.com> ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com writes:

> I'm happy with the recording, what I'm not happy with was the
> performance.
>
> Incidentally, that little problem is in the process of being fixed.
> We've eliminated the problem player, and are in the process of getting a new
> bass player up to speed. We will likely go back to ITR and lay new bass
> tracks and some better vocals, as time permits

Glad to hear it. It sounds like you're on the right track. Music is
for love, but business is business, and it sounds like you're beyond
the gas-and-beer-money gigs and need to start movign forward.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 4:20:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2 Sep 2004 21:22:30 -0700, mmeprod@mmeproductions.com (Mike) wrote:

>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3

These are 3 I've listened to. La grange is just an intro, so I can't
really tell, but voice and guitars seam fine. Chorus (or alike) on voice
moves it sideways/ around a little. Personally, I think voice should be
dead center, but this is matter of taste.

Other two, generally speaking, ther's no bass. To be more precise...

Oye Como Va: bass freq is too low. I think ther's something like octaver
giving octave below original. Probably, this was an attempt to give some
fullness to the sound. I think it'd end better if original was simply
cranked up.

Black Magic Woman: Bass is more audible. Low/ root note on first chord
is ok, but high notes are somehow pling-plong, IYKWIM. Other root notes
are weaker as they are played in higher position (?), but again I'd turn
bass louder.

I've probably got it all wrong, but all in all I'd make bass/ kick more
prominent. As it is, I think, balance btw "aggression" and "power" is
not OK (unfavorable to power) which is pity, as all instruments
individually have the "warmth" my recordings usually lack and I have to
work hard to achieve.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 4:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Vladan <luxey1@eunet.yu> wrote:

>On 2 Sep 2004 21:22:30 -0700, mmeprod@mmeproductions.com (Mike) wrote:
>
>>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
>>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
>>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3
>
>These are 3 I've listened to. La grange is just an intro, so I can't
>really tell, but voice and guitars seam fine. Chorus (or alike) on voice
>moves it sideways/ around a little. Personally, I think voice should be
>dead center, but this is matter of taste.
>
>Other two, generally speaking, ther's no bass. To be more precise...
>
>Oye Como Va: bass freq is too low. I think ther's something like octaver
>giving octave below original. Probably, this was an attempt to give some
>fullness to the sound. I think it'd end better if original was simply
>cranked up.
>
>Black Magic Woman: Bass is more audible. Low/ root note on first chord
>is ok, but high notes are somehow pling-plong, IYKWIM. Other root notes
>are weaker as they are played in higher position (?), but again I'd turn
>bass louder.
>
>I've probably got it all wrong, but all in all I'd make bass/ kick more
>prominent. As it is, I think, balance btw "aggression" and "power" is
>not OK (unfavorable to power) which is pity, as all instruments
>individually have the "warmth" my recordings usually lack and I have to
>work hard to achieve.

That was the mix the group wanted. Scott Headstream, our Studio B engineer, did
the mix with the group in attendance.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 8:32:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> That was the mix the group wanted. Scott Headstream, our Studio B engineer, did the mix with the group in attendance.

I've no doubt about skills of you and your men. Recorded sound seam to
be of a hi quality. Unfortuneately, bands always have these ..., what
they call them..., oh yes, IDEAS.

Furthermore, I listen to the web thru mid 90's Sony walkman tiney
earphones = I may be "hearing things".
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 1:54:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I don't think they can complain, first with the mix, but second because of
their participation. I've given over the control room to guys that wanted
to do the mix themselves, who smiled as they listened to the mixed CD both
here in the studio and out in the live room (the big monitors) and then
called two hours later when their mixes didn't work on their home boombox.

Hey, it's a service industry, and as we all know, no matter how hard you
try, some people just aren't going to be satisfied with the service. If
they didn't like it when they got it, they shouldn't have paid and shouldn't
have taken anything away with them. In my above case, I was more worried
that they'd go with what they'd mixed and use me as a scapegoat to the
public. Reputation is business.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Harvey Gerst" <harvey@ITRstudio.com> wrote in message
news:castk0d30i9marcaknoahpjk92pi5mm6f8@4ax.com...
> Vladan <luxey1@eunet.yu> wrote:
>
> >On 2 Sep 2004 21:22:30 -0700, mmeprod@mmeproductions.com (Mike) wrote:
> >
> >>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/LaGrange.mp3
> >>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/BlackMagicWoman.mp3
> >>> http://www.southbound.org/audio/OyeComoVa.mp3
> >
> >These are 3 I've listened to. La grange is just an intro, so I can't
> >really tell, but voice and guitars seam fine. Chorus (or alike) on voice
> >moves it sideways/ around a little. Personally, I think voice should be
> >dead center, but this is matter of taste.
> >
> >Other two, generally speaking, ther's no bass. To be more precise...
> >
> >Oye Como Va: bass freq is too low. I think ther's something like octaver
> >giving octave below original. Probably, this was an attempt to give some
> >fullness to the sound. I think it'd end better if original was simply
> >cranked up.
> >
> >Black Magic Woman: Bass is more audible. Low/ root note on first chord
> >is ok, but high notes are somehow pling-plong, IYKWIM. Other root notes
> >are weaker as they are played in higher position (?), but again I'd turn
> >bass louder.
> >
> >I've probably got it all wrong, but all in all I'd make bass/ kick more
> >prominent. As it is, I think, balance btw "aggression" and "power" is
> >not OK (unfavorable to power) which is pity, as all instruments
> >individually have the "warmth" my recordings usually lack and I have to
> >work hard to achieve.
>
> That was the mix the group wanted. Scott Headstream, our Studio B
engineer, did
> the mix with the group in attendance.
>
> Harvey Gerst
> Indian Trail Recording Studio
> http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 10:19:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ScotFraser <scotfraser@aol.comedy> wrote:

> However, to maintain good relations with the client, a deal could be
> arranged,

Especially if the song itself never got arranged.

--
ha
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 12:33:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Especially if the song itself never got arranged. >>



Those kind of songs are what we call "mortgage makers".

Scott Fraser
!