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The hard core PDA reviewer strikes again: Tungsten E vs. C..

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Anonymous
May 13, 2004 12:31:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In late 2003 I posted a "hard core palm user review" of the Tungsten
E. I compared it to my late and very lamented Vx.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&c2coff...

Well, I'm back. Data mangling problems related to PalmOne's hacked
conduits and internal data model extensions broke my spine and I
switched from the $200 Tungsten E to the the $170 SONY CLIE TJ-27.
These are two devices that compete for the slender and ever shrinking
market niche of the semi-pocketable PDA, a niche defined by the much
missed "Razor" (Palm V).

I now have another hard core review, hosted on the blog of the
"Society for the Preservation of the True PDA" (aka the "Cult of the
True PDA").

You can read it as it evolves here:

http://onetruepda.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_onetruepda_ar...

Thus far the Tungsten E is ahead by a country mile -- except on the
one key issue. If the CLIE mangles my data less than the Tungsten E it
will "less awful".

If PalmOne hadn't hacked the Tungsten E's data structures though,
there's no doubt that it would be a princely device -- even if it has
a very stupid cover-rail design and lacks a standard expansion
connector. If the TJ-27 is the best SONY can do for this niche,
they're in as least as much trouble as PalmOne.

john
jfaughnan@spamcop.net

meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, review, comparative, SONY CLIE, PalmOne,
Tungsten E, T/E, TungstenE, T|E, Tungsten/E, TJ27
Anonymous
May 13, 2004 5:16:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi,

I miss my m500 too, not for it's features but for the great body design.
Palmone made the bottom of the T|E slope out just enough to render all the
wonderful PalmV*/m** cases unuseable (especially my coveted Kensington
aluminum case). If they had just reused the m505/515 body and put in the
guts of the T|E it'd be awesome.

However, concerning the datamangler, it is actually possible to disable it
completely and then use Pocketmirror (up to version 3.1.6) with the standard
databases without issue. I've also found that pocketmirror works fine at
least for datebk5 and tasks without disabling the datamangler (I can't
comment on address book or notes since I use KeySuite for those and I've
never used the palmone calendar application). The only real issue is when
restoring from a card backup there will be crashes in Datebk5 or when
hotsyncing unless you run the Datebk5 dbScan utility to remove all deleted
files, which works as a workaround. Removing the datamangler should make
that unnecessary.

There's info on this at:
http://www.datebk5.com/datebk5faq.htm#Tungsten%20T3%20a...

although you'll have to e-mail to get the detailed info on removing the
datamanger patch.

Also, Pocketmirror 3.1.7 XT supports the new databases if you want to use
them with a more powerful conduit than the one palmone provides.

Ric

John Faughnan wrote:
> In late 2003 I posted a "hard core palm user review" of the Tungsten
> E. I compared it to my late and very lamented Vx.
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&c2coff...
>
> Well, I'm back. Data mangling problems related to PalmOne's hacked
> conduits and internal data model extensions broke my spine and I
> switched from the $200 Tungsten E to the the $170 SONY CLIE TJ-27.
> These are two devices that compete for the slender and ever shrinking
> market niche of the semi-pocketable PDA, a niche defined by the much
> missed "Razor" (Palm V).
>
> I now have another hard core review, hosted on the blog of the
> "Society for the Preservation of the True PDA" (aka the "Cult of the
> True PDA").
>
> You can read it as it evolves here:
>
>
http://onetruepda.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_onetruepda_ar...
>
> Thus far the Tungsten E is ahead by a country mile -- except on the
> one key issue. If the CLIE mangles my data less than the Tungsten E it
> will "less awful".
>
> If PalmOne hadn't hacked the Tungsten E's data structures though,
> there's no doubt that it would be a princely device -- even if it has
> a very stupid cover-rail design and lacks a standard expansion
> connector. If the TJ-27 is the best SONY can do for this niche,
> they're in as least as much trouble as PalmOne.
>
> john
> jfaughnan@spamcop.net
>
> meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, review, comparative, SONY CLIE, PalmOne,
> Tungsten E, T/E, TungstenE, T|E, Tungsten/E, TJ27




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Anonymous
May 13, 2004 9:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Ric" <riiiiiic@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40a3ada1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>...
> Hi,
> I miss my m500 too, not for it's features but for the great body design.
> Palmone made the bottom of the T|E slope out just enough to render all the
> wonderful PalmV*/m** cases unuseable (especially my coveted Kensington
> aluminum case). If they had just reused the m505/515 body and put in the
> guts of the T|E it'd be awesome.

Yeah. I feel the same way.

> However, concerning the datamangler, it is actually possible to disable it
> completely and then use Pocketmirror (up to version 3.1.6) with the standard

The Pimlico list did mention some problems, esp. w/ beaming. I was so
fed up with the hassles I've had that I decided to opt for anything
else. Partly an emotional response. In almost every aspect I've
measured the Tungsten E is better than the SONY CLIE -- except for
some reason (when I use a decent stylus -- NOT the CLIE stylus) I get
MUCH better TealScript recognition on the TJ-27.

> Also, Pocketmirror 3.1.7 XT supports the new databases if you want to use
> them with a more powerful conduit than the one palmone provides.

So Chapura claims. I have 4 years of war wounds from using earlier
generations of PocketMirror Pro. I lost confidence in them years ago.
(I think PocketMirror std works ok.)

> > You can read it as it evolves here:
> http://onetruepda.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_onetruepda_ar...
> >
> > Thus far the Tungsten E is ahead by a country mile -- except on the
> > one key issue. If the CLIE mangles my data less than the Tungsten E it
> > will "less awful".
> >
> > If PalmOne hadn't hacked the Tungsten E's data structures though,
> > there's no doubt that it would be a princely device -- even if it has
> > a very stupid cover-rail design and lacks a standard expansion
> > connector. If the TJ-27 is the best SONY can do for this niche,
> > they're in as least as much trouble as PalmOne.

john
jfaughnan@spamcop.net
meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, review, comparative, SONY CLIE, Tungsten
E
Related resources
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 5:10:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

That happy with a Tungsten E? I'm very disappointed in the rapid
hardware failure of the last two of these I've owned. The first one
developed a fouled up digitizer within the first two weeks, fortunately
within the return window at the office supply store. The second has
lasted six months, but it is now barely useable with a stylus (writing
on Note Pad resembles Picasso). When I opened it up to see if something
was loose, I was disappointed to find it wasn't -- and mad to see that
the power on/off switch had partially broken off.

In contrast, I had a Handspring Visor Edge for two years before I
cracked the screen (forgot to take it out of my pocket before I moved
furniture).

I hope Sony makes 'em more like Handspring and less like Palm.


John Faughnan wrote:

> In late 2003 I posted a "hard core palm user review" of the Tungsten
> E. I compared it to my late and very lamented Vx.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&c2coff...
>
> Well, I'm back. Data mangling problems related to PalmOne's hacked
> conduits and internal data model extensions broke my spine and I
> switched from the $200 Tungsten E to the the $170 SONY CLIE TJ-27.
> These are two devices that compete for the slender and ever shrinking
> market niche of the semi-pocketable PDA, a niche defined by the much
> missed "Razor" (Palm V).
>
> I now have another hard core review, hosted on the blog of the
> "Society for the Preservation of the True PDA" (aka the "Cult of the
> True PDA").
>
> You can read it as it evolves here:
>
> http://onetruepda.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_onetruepda_ar...
>
> Thus far the Tungsten E is ahead by a country mile -- except on the
> one key issue. If the CLIE mangles my data less than the Tungsten E it
> will "less awful".
>
> If PalmOne hadn't hacked the Tungsten E's data structures though,
> there's no doubt that it would be a princely device -- even if it has
> a very stupid cover-rail design and lacks a standard expansion
> connector. If the TJ-27 is the best SONY can do for this niche,
> they're in as least as much trouble as PalmOne.
>
> john
> jfaughnan@spamcop.net
>
> meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, review, comparative, SONY CLIE, PalmOne,
> Tungsten E, T/E, TungstenE, T|E, Tungsten/E, TJ27
May 24, 2004 12:12:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Nathan Morris <nationstatevan@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<YRSrc.5106$ZZ1.292258@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> That happy with a Tungsten E? I'm very disappointed in the rapid
> hardware failure of the last two of these I've owned. The first one
> developed a fouled up digitizer within the first two weeks, fortunately
> within the return window at the office supply store. The second has
> lasted six months, but it is now barely useable with a stylus (writing
> on Note Pad resembles Picasso). When I opened it up to see if something
> was loose, I was disappointed to find it wasn't -- and mad to see that
> the power on/off switch had partially broken off.
>
> In contrast, I had a Handspring Visor Edge for two years before I
> cracked the screen (forgot to take it out of my pocket before I moved
> furniture).
>
> I hope Sony makes 'em more like Handspring and less like Palm.

Agreed.

I used a Handspring Visor Deluxe for 2 1/2 years, and still use it. I
tried switching to Tungsten E, and was plagued by scratches within the
first 2 weeks which made it look like it was 10 years old. The down
button also was so stiff, it would callous my thumb just by pressing
it.

Returned that, my second TE had an extremely dim yellow screen.....I
just returned the bloody thing without getting another TE

Quality control is PalmOne's biggest flaw........and people who know
this are only people who have directly experienced defective Palm's.
This is why some people will post threads saying they're happy with TE
----- they were just the 1 out of 3 lucky ones who actually got a good
TE.

But, I will not buy from PalmOne until they make quality products
again..

-Chris
Anonymous
May 25, 2004 10:30:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Nathan Morris <nationstatevan@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<YRSrc.5106$ZZ1.292258@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> That happy with a Tungsten E? I'm very disappointed in the rapid
> hardware failure of the last two of these I've owned. The first one
> developed a fouled up digitizer within the first two weeks, fortunately
> within the return window at the office supply store. The second has
> lasted six months, but it is now barely useable with a stylus (writing
> on Note Pad resembles Picasso). When I opened it up to see if something
> was loose, I was disappointed to find it wasn't -- and mad to see that
> the power on/off switch had partially broken off.

I've updated my blog (I know some folks don't like blog updates, I
think RSS feeds should identify updates and clients should handle them
in a configurable fashion) after a few weeks use and the CLIE, despite
being TOO big and TOO bulky (stupid camera) is pulling even. The
Zip-Linq charge/sync cables are fantastic -- almost as good as the
T/E's support for the standard USB mini-cable. If SONY bundled those
cables with the CLIE they'd make a lot of customers happy.

The other big advantage to the CLIE, as you note, is its ruggedness
and the quality of the digitizer. Even if it didn't fail (as yours
has), the Tungsten E digitizer was mediocre. I didn't realize how bad
it was until I began using TealScript (G1) with the CLIE. Wow. The pen
works again, esp. when I use a real stylus instead of the DOPY CLIE
stylus (what WERE they thinking?)

Still not as good a device as the Palm Vx, but I've decided the Vx was
a real fluke -- kind of like getting a 22nd century artifact in the
21st. We won't do as well as the Vx for years, if ever.

john
jfaughnan@spamcop.net

PS. Life without the Tungsten E/T3 Data Mangler is much sunnier.

[1] http://onetruepda.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_onetruepda_ar...


meta: jfaughnan, jgfaughnan, review, comparative, SONY CLIE, PalmOne,
Tungsten E, T/E, TungstenE, T|E, Tungsten/E, TJ27
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 3:08:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <262db19b.0405250530.60db3e8c@posting.google.com>,
jfaughnan@gmail.com (John Faughnan) wrote:
> Still not as good a device as the Palm Vx, but I've decided the Vx was
> a real fluke -- kind of like getting a 22nd century artifact in the
> 21st.

LOL! Hmmm, but aren't the Temporal Cops supposed to remove all
anachronistic hardware prior to their return to their own timeline?

But agree, the Palm V/Vx's combination of durable metal case, svelte
form factor and multiple weeks of battery life was ahead of its time.
Kudos to the design team, wherever they are now.
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 8:25:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Schmidt wrote:
> But agree, the Palm V/Vx's combination of durable metal case, svelte
> form factor and multiple weeks of battery life was ahead of its time.
> Kudos to the design team, wherever they are now.

Just out of curiosity, how does battery life on the m500 compare
to that on the Vx? Both have similar monochrome screens, which I
assume is the big battery drain.

- Logan
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 12:37:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Logan Shaw wrote:
> Schmidt wrote:
>
>>But agree, the Palm V/Vx's combination of durable metal case, svelte
>>form factor and multiple weeks of battery life was ahead of its time.
>>Kudos to the design team, wherever they are now.

Indeed. No other device since then has been so well designed. Sure,
there's new features in new devices, but that's to be expected. The
newer devices still aren't as innovative in the design, and have all
been subjected to the invetiable penny-pinching after the economy took a
dive. Glass and metal has to yield to plastic, and books are replaced
with PDFs.
Today, companies don't gamble on big sales, and prefer a big margin
instead. Which means adding all possible features that are *cheap* to
add, in order to drive the sales price up without adding too much to the
production price.

> Just out of curiosity, how does battery life on the m500 compare
> to that on the Vx? Both have similar monochrome screens, which I
> assume is the big battery drain.

Having both in the family, I see a much better battery life on the Vx
than the m500. One reason for this could be that the m500 runs at 66%
higher clock speed than the Vx, and another that it has a card reader,
which is polled every now and then even when not in use.

As for the screens, they're not completely similar. The Vx has a green
screen, while the m500 is lighter and khaki. The m500 is easier to read
in daylight, while the Vx wins at night time. But they're both
monochrome 160x160 with "inverse backlight", yeah.

I'd take a Vx over a m500 any day -- not only because of the better
battery life, but because it has a glass screen and metal back.

Regards,
--
*Art
!