Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

PC games at risk from the new consoles -- not for long.....

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 5:45:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Not with my 7800GT(or Ultra)-SLI pair and my A64 4800+
CPU............. :-) :-)

PC gamers make great beta-testers before a port of the same game to
the storage-deficient consoles -- near-infinite patch space on a PC.
Also, how does the console deal with client-side updates which can
give new life to an on-line game -- for example high-resolution and/or
new map-packs not available when the game is released.... oh, I know,
instead of a free download, go buy the expanded version again from
your handy-dandy retail store.

For dedicated gamers, the console entry cost will certainly be low
( classic "loss-leader") but the running-cost will be very high. All
console manufacturers sell their hardware at break-even or loss and
will continue to do so. They make the money on the software, either
directly like M$$ Studios, or getting a significant percentage of the
revenue on third-party games. No problem -- captive audience of
console owners.

I might just get a PS3 for its very useful Blu-ray/Multiformat DVD
player and other multimedia benefits. And my family will enjoy some of
the action games. However, for other games really needing
keyboard/mouse and some focussed-concentration - back to my faithful
PC.

On a related topic of considerable M$$ embarrassment:-

( Please don't complain about the following content being posted
here instead of to a console group -- it is a prime example of the
problems faced when computer-hardware is frozen into a console...
for up to 5 years..... while technology is rapidly changing....)

The Xbox360 management needs to properly address the huge
problem of its DVD player/rom asap, or it will come back to haunt
them.

What's the point of having a console capable of HD-quality output
without a corresponding DVD-rom/player ? M$$'s dilemma here is very
obvious and it is all tied up with their hurried introduction. There a
a big fight going on between the two HD formats --- HD-DVD and
Blu-ray. From the latest industry statements, it currently looks as if
Blu-ray is going to win -- driven by Sony's intent to put it in the
PS3, thus automatically making Blu-ray HD available to millions of
potential users almost at introduction of the technology and
without having to purchase a separate player. Blu-ray is supported by
the 2 consumer heavyweights, Sony and Panasonic ( who, in the past
have been at loggerheads on new technology..). And in the unlikely
event that HD-DVD wins, then Sony will have time to incorporate that
alternate technology. M$$ on their current schedule will not.... !!!
The using part of the consumer industry refuses to go along with OEM
dual-standard HD-players -- they will be very expensive to manufacture
-- and the problem demands urgent resolution. Consumers are now very
wary of standards-fights and tend to put off related purchasing
decisions.............

All this argument puts M$$ in a big fix. If they incorporate Blu-ray
in the Xbox360, a la Sony, they will have to pay Sony/Panasonic
profit margin, while Sony gets to put it in their console at cost. If
they incorporate HD-DVD, they may have leaped on to the wrong
horse.....

So M$$ is doing nothing with regard to embedding a HD-style DVD
player in their box. I bet that they will be forced to do something
when the standards-issue is finally resolved, but it is already too
late to change the first Xbox360 configuration, unless the Xbox360
November schedule is slipped..... And if the schedule indeed does not
slip then expect to see an Xbox360 MkII with a HD-capable DVD player
by the following Christmas 2006. The original Xbox360 will be an
orphan.....I cannot see it being economically updated. All because
M$$ is in a panic-hurry to be ahead of Sony, and cannot wait for a
final resolution to the HD-DVD fight before they ship.

Remember that an embedded HD-player can also support games or
games-collections requiring vast disk-space. The Xbox360 cannot
wait 5 years for the Xbox720 ( one more spin for console-heads..)
before incorporating the HD player.

As for us with the PC, we can freely add either HD-DVD or Blu-ray
to our machines (including burners too) whenever it seems right,
either for price, functionality or both.................. how nice..!!
No need to throw away our shiny near-new console and buy another
one...

BTW, I personally believe that the Xbox360 will slip schedule
anyway. If that thing gets shipped in a hurry and major system bugs
requiring returns are found by users because of hurried/inadequate QC
testing, M$$ will have to eat a lot of the profit from their other
divisions ----- remember the console hardware WILL effectively be sold
at a loss for the first year or two --- amortizing the huge
development cost -- even if the manufacturing/distribution cost is
covered by the sales price.

John Lewis
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 5:45:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Blu-ray in PS3 means nothing. Consoles had proprietary storage formats
for years, PS3 might just end up with a beta-max on its hands.

Most people don't use a PS2 for watching movies, neither will they use a
PS3 for the same. And being as HDTV penetration is very low, the threat of
piracy of HD material is high, I don't think the market is ready for HD-DVD.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 5:45:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

John Lewis wrote:

> Not with my 7800GT(or Ultra)-SLI pair and my A64 4800+

<snip>

i'm absolutely sure pc games will never die but that is not
the issue... the issue is pc games becoming small and only
for a elitist minority

we cannot rely on sli or crossfire or any other dual gpu
technology or even the 7th generation geforce to save the
pc game market cause its too much expensive

pc games must continue being affordable and democratic

everyone needs a pc so using that same pc to do as many
things as possible including games is a very wise investment

buying proprietary single task hardware only for games like
a console is expensive and a complete waste

that has to be the message!
don't buy extra superfluous hardware when you already have it

and i believe we pc gamers have a role in defending pc games

sorry if what i write is always the same and becoming tiresome
but its important
.. buy pc games titles
.. buy pc games titles to give as gifts
.. never copy pc games to others
.. never lend pc games to others
.. buy at least 1 pc game title a month
.. stay exclusive and faithful to pc games
.. promote pc games and bring friends to this great hobby

long live pc games!

ps: as for the media used being it cd, dvd, or any future one
i really don't see an issue there... have we saw any pc game at
all which needed more than 1 dvd? no, so why making it a issue
the format... no the format is only a issue to the manufacturers
that want to introduce it so we will need to buy new readers but
pc games don't need any new media format at least for now

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

to check authenticity of the real "steamKILLER" reassure that
the post came from a google server and that the email address
is "sayNO2steam@yahoo.com"
Related resources
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:13:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:23:59 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

> Blu-ray in PS3 means nothing.

Yes it does. It prevents outlandish prices being initially paid for
stand-alone versions of HD-player technology. The technology is
subsidized by Sony in a console price that is at or below
manufacturing cost. And the console can play all multimedia
formats ( except HD-DVD..), in glorious multi-channel sound
so you can dump your existing DVD/CD player if you want...
Remember when DVD players were $250 ( and CD-players
were $800 ) -- priced to amortize the development cost...

> Consoles had proprietary storage formats
>for years, PS3 might just end up with a beta-max on its hands.
>

Nope. Major studios are already committed to Blu-ray DVD movies.
Remember what Sony also owns.....

> Most people don't use a PS2 for watching movies, neither will they use a
>PS3 for the same. And being as HDTV penetration is very low, the threat of
>piracy of HD material is high,

Er... the copy protection is not DeCSS.... Have fun making digital
copies....

> I don't think the market is ready for HD-DVD.
>

A simple connection from the PS3 to your HDTV receiver/monitor and
Netflix HD movies to your door service.....

John Lewis

>
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:57:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> once tried to test me with:

> Blu-ray in PS3 means nothing. Consoles had proprietary storage
> formats for years, PS3 might just end up with a beta-max on its hands.

The only console to have a proprietary format for years is Nintendo's.
Everyone else uses a non-proprietary format. PSX used CD (as did Saturn).
Dreamcast used CD. PS2 used CD/DVD. Xbox used DVD.

I even said that PS3 might end up being the "beta-max" in my post which you
snipped, but I think by having Blu-Ray in a very popular gaming machine is
going to give Blu-Ray an edge.

> Most people don't use a PS2 for watching movies, neither will they
> use a PS3 for the same.

I bought a PS2 so I could have a game machine AND a DVD player. That was my
first DVD player I owned. Then I bought an XBOX and I used that for a DVD
player for the TV in my bedroom. And then about 6-10 months later I moved
the Xbox to the TV upstairs and got a stand-alone DVD player for the
bedroom TV.

I do not think that my experience is unique, I think a lot of gamers
switched to DVD when the PS2 came out. I remember a lot of talk from gamers
who had problems watching certain DVDs on the PS2 (which eventually got
fixed with an update) and so I know I am not the only one who used it for
watching movies. I do not think non-gamers buy a PS2 for a DVD player, but
I do think a lot of gamers bought the PS2 with the idea of saving money by
not having to buy a stand-alone DVD player.

> And being as HDTV penetration is very low, the
> threat of piracy of HD material is high, I don't think the market is
> ready for HD-DVD.

I'm not at all sure what you mean by these statements.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 6:31:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

stePH <acetheta@earthlink.net> once tried to test me with:

> Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns966BEE6BF3793knight37m@130.133.1.4:
>
>> Right now the Blu-Ray and the HD-DVD people are both moving
>> ahead with production of the players and content for them. So guess
>> what, one of them is going to turn into the beta-max and the other
>> the VCR.
>
> The Sony Betamax was, in fact, a "VCR" (Video Cassette Recorder).
> Perhaps you meant "VHS", the current VCR format standard?

Yep.



--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 5:43:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:42a2a20f.32819944@news.verizon.net...
> Yes it does. It prevents outlandish prices being initially paid for
> stand-alone versions of HD-player technology. The technology is
> subsidized by Sony in a console price that is at or below
> manufacturing cost. And the console can play all multimedia
> formats ( except HD-DVD..), in glorious multi-channel sound
> so you can dump your existing DVD/CD player if you want

Why would I want to do that? Samsung DVD players are really nice, and they
don't cost much. Especially nice if you have widescreen TV is the EZ-fit
button (fits 4:3 movies to the TV)- Sony's DVD players don't have anything
like that, at least the ones I tried out. You have to turn the player over
to non-progressive scan and use the TV's resizing features. This can be a
real pain if, like me, you like watching alot of Twilight Zone DVD's or you
have any older movies (even some not-so-old movies like Full Metal Jacket
are 4:3).

Yes, PS2 was a cheap DVD player when it came out, but that changed pretty
quickly. Better, cheaper players will come out, even for Blu-Ray or
whatever standard comes after DVD (personally, I don't see the need for
anything better than DVD at the moment).

> Er... the copy protection is not DeCSS.... Have fun making digital
> copies....

Don't kid yourself, the encryption will be cracked.
!