recording solo piano

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i would like some recommendations on solo piano recording

i have a grand piano in a room with 10 foot ceilings and wood floors. one
blanket up on the wall near the bass end of the piano.

the piano is extremely rich and warm erring almost slightly to too warm. two
octaves below middle c it is very muddy then gets better in the bass.

my first attempt was really awful, using coles ribbons and an old ampex tube
preamp into a masterlink. i had wrongly assumed from my rock recording days
that warmer is better, and for this application it sounded horrible, much
too muddy. i then tried using a soundcraft spirit with the coles and it
sounded a bit better.

then i switched to a pair of km 184's/tube pre about 6 inches away from the
lowest bass and hightest trebled note. this got better. still not a great
sound.

then i used 184s into the spirit and this is the best sound so far with the
mics about a foot and a half above the piano over the bass and treble. the
more brittle the sound of the mic and the pre the better the sound is
getting. i am guessing to compensate for the extreme rich sound of the
piano. and i have concluded that the tube preamp i was using was totally
wrong for the sound i wanted and had way too much bump in the low mids and
not enough clarity. it was great for kick drums and bass for rock.

there is still a little bit of boxiness to the sound which could be the room
or it could be the preamp.

i love the sound of the old art tatum capitol and decca recordingings. he is
playing extremely dynamically and you get to hear every note crisply and it
never sounds too loud or too soft. obviously they were recording to tape
which is something i might try next to get some natural tape compression. i
have access to an ampex 440 2 track. by pulling the mics away from the piano
i am getting a more even sound without using compression, but it still
sounds a little bit harsh sometimes.


i have been thinking about getting a pair of much better preamps in hopes
that this will give me a tighter crispier sound. things i'm wondering about
are whether getting better a/d converters would help, sound treatment for
the room, which mic pre's would be good for the sound i am going for,
better mic placement, whether outboard compression might help, and does
anyone know what kind of equipment was used in the 40's and 50's to record
solo piano.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"anon" <anonymousm@nyc.rr.com>

> i would like some recommendations on solo piano recording
>
What kind of music??

What is the size of the room besides the ceeling height?

I'd use any pair of spread Omni's placed 1-4 feet appart (even with a
Jecklin disc), 8 to 15 feet out from the middle of the rim of the piano and
anywhere from 7 to 12 feet high..

I hate the mikes inside the lid thingy, mostly because it does not let the
instrument speak. Even a pair of (Crown) PZM on the floor, up too a couple
of feet infront of the insstrument is better, and often works very well in a
smallish room..

The mike pre is a lesser concern as long as it's sound is not to vissible..

/ptr


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Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< mics should
be about 2 feet apart. >>

Or coincident if you care about phase & mono compatibility.


Scott Fraser

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Get the piano fixed, then record it. There are three nice mic setups, but
the piano has to sound right. Try over the player's shoulders so the mics
hear what the player is hearing, or coincident inside of the box with full
stick (placement is your preference), or mono outside the curve with a nice
mic (again, specific placement is your preference) in a good room. And hang
that blanket somewhere else.

KM 184s are good for a piano in a mix, but KM84s are better. The list
really starts getting expensive from there. For all practical purposes,
I've fooled lots of very good players with MXL 603s in a coincident pair at
the hammers about 6" up, but my experience seriously runs in jazz. If it's
classical, I opt for mono outside of the piano. JoVee has gotten good
results from a single PZM mounted to the top with half stick augmented by
84s (I set the 84s).

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"anon" <anonymousm@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
newst5_c.30849$Ot3.8171@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> i would like some recommendations on solo piano recording
>
> i have a grand piano in a room with 10 foot ceilings and wood floors. one
> blanket up on the wall near the bass end of the piano.
>
> the piano is extremely rich and warm erring almost slightly to too warm.
two
> octaves below middle c it is very muddy then gets better in the bass.
>
> my first attempt was really awful, using coles ribbons and an old ampex
tube
> preamp into a masterlink. i had wrongly assumed from my rock recording
days
> that warmer is better, and for this application it sounded horrible, much
> too muddy. i then tried using a soundcraft spirit with the coles and it
> sounded a bit better.
>
> then i switched to a pair of km 184's/tube pre about 6 inches away from
the
> lowest bass and hightest trebled note. this got better. still not a great
> sound.
>
> then i used 184s into the spirit and this is the best sound so far with
the
> mics about a foot and a half above the piano over the bass and treble. the
> more brittle the sound of the mic and the pre the better the sound is
> getting. i am guessing to compensate for the extreme rich sound of the
> piano. and i have concluded that the tube preamp i was using was totally
> wrong for the sound i wanted and had way too much bump in the low mids and
> not enough clarity. it was great for kick drums and bass for rock.
>
> there is still a little bit of boxiness to the sound which could be the
room
> or it could be the preamp.
>
> i love the sound of the old art tatum capitol and decca recordingings. he
is
> playing extremely dynamically and you get to hear every note crisply and
it
> never sounds too loud or too soft. obviously they were recording to tape
> which is something i might try next to get some natural tape compression.
i
> have access to an ampex 440 2 track. by pulling the mics away from the
piano
> i am getting a more even sound without using compression, but it still
> sounds a little bit harsh sometimes.
>
>
> i have been thinking about getting a pair of much better preamps in hopes
> that this will give me a tighter crispier sound. things i'm wondering
about
> are whether getting better a/d converters would help, sound treatment for
> the room, which mic pre's would be good for the sound i am going for,
> better mic placement, whether outboard compression might help, and does
> anyone know what kind of equipment was used in the 40's and 50's to record
> solo piano.
>
>
>
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:36:09 +0200, anon wrote:

> i would like some recommendations on solo piano recording
>
> i have a grand piano in a room with 10 foot ceilings and wood floors.
> one blanket up on the wall near the bass end of the piano.
>
> the piano is extremely rich and warm erring almost slightly to too warm.
> two octaves below middle c it is very muddy then gets better in the
> bass.

A muddy sound in the high basses normally is a room acoustics problem.

You could try to improve room acoustics. I get good results with ecophon:
http://www.ecophon-us.com/template [...] __4778.asp
Important to choose a panel with a flat absorbion curve. The ecophon
master panels do deliver a nice curve.

After that you could try to regulate the piano to sound perfect for the
room.

For recording I always avoid components that advertise with some form of
clouration like "warm". They normally add colouration and distortion.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com