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RELIGION: Defense mechanism?

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Why is it that one can't attack religion without attacking its members? Is this some kind of defense mechanism?

If I say that religion breeds ignorance I apparently attack all religious people to their bones. I maintain however that those same people could have faith without the organized religion that is breeding ignorance. One can have faith without religion. One can't have religion without people.

I believe that religion limits free thinking. You cannot be a member of a religion and challenge their holy book. It is forbidden. When the book is blatantly wrong the religious respond by saying that it shouldn't be taken literally. When it suits them it should be taken literally.

Religion tells people what they should and should not do. This includes restricting what they can do with their bodies. They can't have abortions, they can't use birth control, female circumcision, they can't eat certain foods, women can't show their skin, etc. Why? What does this have to do with one's faith in a higher power?

Isn't religion supposed to just be about your relationship with a higher power? Why all the rules and restrictions? Why the "unquestionable" books? What's with all the sins? I believe it is because of greed, power, and selfishness on the part of the religious leaders. The money and power they possess is unbelievable. Faith is yours and you shouldn't be profiting or becoming powerful off of it since it should only be about your personal relationship with a higher power.

LA LA LA LA LA LA

{FDA}

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all religion are not alike, dood. its hard to say anything this way. you know what i mean?

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Reply to scamtrOn

Well, as I said before, I think what riles up people here is if you generalize people in there, every each one of them, including the faithful who live a decent down to earth life and definitely look like your average daily party guy but with some extra beliefs and morals, as fools or ignorants. That is my view.

But you have a point you didn't used to raise IIRC, on that you could have a religion with the faith but no need to have so many restrictions as some do.

But ya know, sometimes it's also a test of the soul, how powerful are you and can you resist a certain temptation. It can be a challenge that some are willing to take and choose to go for it.

--
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Reply to eden

I attack religion and you interpret it as an attack on the people. Religion is ignorant and by being ignorant makes it's people ignorant. I don't blame those people though. I put the fault on the religion. And there are of course varying degrees of everything. I don't want it to be black or white.

You use the word temptation as if it's something that should be avoided.

Take sex for example. I firmly believe that if two people want to be together they should be able to enjoy themselves without any guilt or retribution from the "church". I don't care what sex you are or how old you are as long as you are mature enough to make that decision.

Yet religion makes sex out to be something bad. It's not bad, it's beautiful and is one of lifes greatest things.

LA LA LA LA LA LA

{FDA}

Reply to dhlucke

if i said your mom is stupid, would you not care? although this analogy isn't a very good one in terms of relations, its a very good one in terms of insult and disrespect.

some have the good in them to keep calm when you make such a direct attack at something they have more respect and love for than life itself, while others lose their cool. religion is not mandatory nor is it a must. its a choice. no one forces you do anything. i wish you'd use a more specific example as to what you're trying to say, like a specific problem you have. there is not only one religion and this subject is so huge, you will never find an answer by a post so vague.

just like i wouldn't say all those without religion are ignorant or having no religion is ignorance, you shouldn't say religion is the root of ignorance. religion at its cause is here to unify diverse people thus creating unity. it is not here to worsen things. your problem is with people, yet you blame religion for it. i don't think thats fare.

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Reply to scamtrOn

organized religion, for example Catholics, definately breeds narrow-mindedness

i have changed my views alot recently.. used to be hard against religion for a few reasons. mainly because most war and genocide has been because of it... but its not the actual religion that causes it, its the way people become self-righteous and lose compassion

killing in the name of God. pure-hypocrisy

religion would do the world a world of good if it was practised with common sense

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Reply to phial

Quote :

your problem is with people, yet you blame religion for it. i don't think thats fare.

Which is exactly my point. It's apparently not fair for me to attack religion. I think it's a defense mechanism.

LA LA LA LA LA LA

{FDA}

Reply to dhlucke

Quote :

religion would do the world a world of good if it was practised with common sense

I believe it can if it's done on an individual basis. One can have faith. However, organized religion I don't believe can be productive with the way societies are made up. Maybe one day when there is no money and people are all the same race it might work, but right now it can't.

Why does one religion fight against another religion, or at the very least disagree, for example? What makes one religion think they are right and the others are wrong?

LA LA LA LA LA LA

{FDA}

Reply to dhlucke

why would you attack what is not at fault? rebellion is only obvious if you do that. you may call it what you may, but the symptoms of a false statement are usually just that; defense.

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Reply to scamtrOn

most of christianity, excluding jehova witness and catholisism doesnt follow the things you have laid out.

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Reply to jihiggs

Quote :

Maybe one day when there is no money and people are all the same race it might work, but right now it can't.

it can and it is being done. see, thats the bad part about generalizing religion.

Quote :

Why does one religion fight against another religion, or at the very least disagree, for example?

is it that you are confusing religion with people? religion is nothing more than a set of rules and or guidelines which are interpreted by humans, one of the most imperfect creatures. personally, i don't know of one legitimate religion which has guidelines or rules stating its followers should fight other religions.

Quote :

What makes one religion think they are right and the others are wrong?

that is the problem. see even you think with the same concept. right or wrong? that isn't how it should be stated.

just because AGP bus took over PCI doesn't mean PCI was dysfunctional. AGP was simply an upgrade, acceptance of AGP by the people was the point.

my religion is not wrong nor my christian friends or my muslim friends. progressive revelation which is a part of every legitimate religion is the issue here. acceptance of a new religion seems to be the cause of problems, not the actual religions.

acceptance of new religion, acceptance of the AGP bus. thats where i was headed with that analogy.

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Reply to scamtrOn

sorry scam that was a shitty analogy =)

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Reply to phial

whoa i can say shitty

shitty [-peep-] bitchin fuckerz cunts [-peep-] dick assholes

ok not all of them work
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Reply to phial

hmmm... i'll try harder next time. and you're not the first to tell me. i usually end up explaining my analogy which makes things more confusing.

maybe i shoul stop using them? oh yeah in my IQ test it said i'm a linguist, it shows doesnt it :tongue:

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Reply to scamtrOn

ROFLMAO!!! HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!!! HAHHAHAHAHAH ROFALMFAOFALROA

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Reply to scamtrOn

killing is banned by most all main religious orgs. Muslim, Protestant, Hindu whatever...and yet more people are killed in the name of "God" than any other reason...and I believe that even if there were no religion at all...we humans would still find some dumbass reason to kill one another...What do you fellas think?

...then we get on our knees and pray, we don't get fooled again..."The Who" said that

Reply to TeeTewl

resolving conflicts with blood is barbaric, inhumane. its just sad to see religion take the hit. i'm one of the most religious people on this forum yet i don't have any problems with people with other religious beliefs.

i know this and i don't care who wants to disagree; one of the BIGGEST problems is education. i know education will solve MANY of the problems in the middle east. i know this to be the single biggest problem. their lack of knowledge is our suffering... everyones suffering. back home, my longest class was religion. it wasn't education, it was lecture and i fcuking hated every minute of it.

by simply providing educational facilities in the middle east, many of the worlds problem would be solved. this could also help immensely in many parts of africa and asia.

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Reply to scamtrOn

Scammy...I'm one of those people that USED to think that Islam taught killing...I was enlightened by the Imam at our prison...This man is one of the most intelligent witty and knowledgeable gentlemen I have ever met...I now know that the Koran tells of Jesus' virgin birth and many othe similar beliefs that I would never have been aware of, if I hadn't been curious about Islam...I wish we all could just sit down and talk. I think many Protestant people would discover that true Islam is about brotherhood and humanity. I'll leave you with what the Imam said to me. "We are all Muslim...some of us have not been enlightened". "How can I want to kill some one for merely not being enlightened". He wasn't trying to get me to follow his beliefs, he was sharing a point of view that I had never been enlightened to.

...then we get on our knees and pray, we don't get fooled again..."The Who" said that

Reply to TeeTewl

thats beautiful!!!

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Reply to scamtrOn

I don't know if I'm ignorant or not....

If an argument can't be settled in one or two paragraphs, perhaps you're anal and should just let it go...

Reply to Grub

Quote :

Why is it that one can't attack religion without attacking its members?

Probably because they've invested their lives into it, and feel like you're directly attacking them, even though you haven't been specific in what you actually are after here, the word religion covers quite a large area. Keep in mind religion can also cover satanists, which would be the flip side of the coin to every other based religion, but is still a religion, I'm sure that statement will raise a few eyebrows here but never the less its true.

It sounds like you've either encountered some force feeding religious fanatics, or you're just looking to try and make sense of something that through the ages has been corrupted by man and his ever changing desire to turn things around to his way of thinking even if he has to change the rules along the way, one things for sure Daniel, this post is definitely going to be interesting. Unfortunately I've got to go to work now, however I'll Be Back, that sounds familiar, where did I hear that??? Oh Well Later Dude! :smile: Ryan

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Reply to 4ryan6

He's mostly trolling...

If an argument can't be settled in one or two paragraphs, perhaps you're anal and should just let it go...

Reply to Grub

Quote :

I don't know if I'm ignorant or not....

Then you're probably ignorant. :tongue:

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Reply to eden

Quote :

organized religion, for example Catholics, definately breeds narrow-mindedness

Your problem has always been how you like to claim things without any actual basis. Save for my mom, my family is Catholic. My dad drinks a lot at parties, both my mom and dad were pretty active sexually when they were teens, my dad was considered almost a pimp for how many ladies he'd get, etc.
Narrow-mindedness? Well, seeing as how I used to be a Catholic, and still know about it around me, I'd say you continue to add unfounded comments.

I'm not sure which was the first subset of the Christian religion though, I think it is Catholicism. Either way, what bothers me personally is how people INSIDE a religion need to also fight and are like "OH! Sorry, that rule doesn't fit my taste. Ok well, I'm forming my own subset of Christianity now!". So now we end up with Orthodox, Maronite, Mormon (correct me if I'm wrong), non-denominational, Catholic, etc.
It's just nonsense to me. Why can't we reunite them all back into one? I thought one set of beliefs was to be respected, now even the people inside it disrespect that and go create their own more "Free or specific" beliefs!
No offense to anyone though, but to me I find that just ridiculous.
I dunno if Jesus really is happy to see different sects and denominations each looking at him their own way. "Oh hey, those people don't believe Mary's my momma, oh those won't read my book!" The unity would definitely help IMO.

--
Ede
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.php" target="_new">More updates and added sites as over 62 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol: Edited by Eden on 05/21/04 12:15 PM.

Reply to eden

Any religion that outright bans sex, (not rules of "wait for marriage to have sex" ) needs to be shut down.

Ignore your sexuality, die pathetic...IMO.

--
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Reply to eden

Quote :

I don't know if I'm ignorant or not....

Of course you're not. I don't intend any of this to be taken personally.

It's probably like Scamtron says. When I question this it's like attacking someone's mother.

Reply to dhlucke

Well there you go... that's what I've been trying to say to you all along.

--
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Reply to eden

Quote :

Any religion that outright bans sex, (not rules of "wait for marriage to have sex" ) needs to be shut down.

Ignore your sexuality, die pathetic...IMO.

no such thing exists and never will. if you think about it, the religion would only last one generation.

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Reply to scamtrOn

Quote :

my dad was considered almost a pimp for how many ladies he'd get, etc.

.... ummmm.... you know what i'm thinking, right ede?

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Reply to scamtrOn

Quote :

I'm not sure which was the first subset of the Christian religion though, I think it is Catholicism. Either way, what bothers me personally is how people INSIDE a religion need to also fight and are like "OH! Sorry, that rule doesn't fit my taste. Ok well, I'm forming my own subset of Christianity now!". So now we end up with Orthodox, Maronite, Mormon (correct me if I'm wrong), non-denominational, Catholic, etc.
It's just nonsense to me. Why can't we reunite them all back into one? I thought one set of beliefs was to be respected, now even the people inside it disrespect that and go create their own more "Free or specific" beliefs!
No offense to anyone though, but to me I find that just ridiculous.
I dunno if Jesus really is happy to see different sects and denominations each looking at him their own way. "Oh hey, those people don't believe Mary's my momma, oh those won't read my book!" The unity would definitely help IMO

thats a good write

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Reply to scamtrOn

I know what I'M thinking! Ede is adopted. Or the milkman's child. Something.

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Reply to Auburn9698

The simple reason is that by you attacking their religion, they feel you are attacking them as well, and it's somewhat true. Someone who has devoted their entire life to a specific organized religion will not take it well if their religion is criticized or called a sham in front of their face.

The problem with religion is that people aren't really religious because they want to be. They are religious because they HAVE to be. What I mean is that 99.99% of the religious people on this planet have chosen their religion for the sole reason that it was forced on them by their parents, and not because they made an objective choice after they investigated the many options out there.

Religion was not forced on me. I went to church a few times when I was younger, but that was mainly play time more than anything. But, it was never ingrained into my head that church was a wonderful place that I HAD to be in. Most religious people are *brainwashed* at a young age to feel that their church is wonderful, and they must go.

Then there are the "non-practicing" followers, meaning they believe, but never go to church or anything. I think these people don't really believe, but just say so to tell other people what they think they want to hear. If they really believed, then they'd REALLY believe.

Jesse Ventura said it best, that religion is just a "crutch for weak-minded people." People that don't have the balls to think for themselves and come up with their own philosophy of how they feel their life should be lived, so they just follow what everyone else they're around tells them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not just talking about what people think is right and what they think is wrong. I think that most people inherently know what is right and wrong, and don't need religion to tell them. Religious peoples like to say that religion is the basis of all law (thous shalt not kill, etc.), but I think those are obvious no-brainers and would be law regardless of religion.

Don't you think god would rather have his followers going out and doing community service for a couple hours a week rather than going to a building and listening to someone read from an ancient book that they've heard a thousand times? If god exists, I think he would be much more pleased with someone helping a fellow man than listening to someone read an old book.

Sort of a long rant, and I got interrupted by a phone call in the middle, so I don't even know what I wrote, and I'm too lazy to go and read it all again.

-------------------------------------------
 "Trying is the first step towards failure."

Reply to ksoth

Quote :

most of christianity, excluding jehova witness and catholisism doesnt follow the things you have laid out.

So if I go to Church and question the bible that is ok?

Reply to dhlucke

Well, you raise some good points, I admit. I do think your 99.99% is horribly disfigured number though.

Now, you say free mind for the atheist is the right thing, hmm?

Well, I could propose on you a philosophical theory on the system we function under (not a religious thing, but a system on how man is free, what is his path, destiny, etc.), that would immediately make any atheist believing in it, a drone knowing he has no freedom, and returning to religion would make his life so much easier and better.

BTW, a determinist is an atheist, I would say. Unless there are religions who's God meant Fate as well.
--
Ede
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.php" target="_new">More updates and added sites as over 62 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol: Edited by Eden on 05/21/04 01:19 PM.

Reply to eden

But how is that even logical to do?

Do I go to your house and question your love life just like that?

--
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Reply to eden

Yeah I think I know what you thought.

OMG...

My mom is called Candy!

--
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Reply to eden

<A HREF="http://www.fact-index.com/c/ch/christianity__denominations.html" target="_new">http://www.fact-index.com/c/ch/christianity__denominations.html</A>

Baffles me everytime I read something like this.

Reply to dhlucke

Quote :

But how is that even logical to do?

Do I go to your house and question your love life just like that?

My personal love life is relevant to the public teachings of religion?

That's the problem here. Religion is taught in a manner where you can't question it. Those that question it have to go make their own religion. See my link above.

Reply to dhlucke

Yeah it baffles me too. I am really not fond of how people do that. If I made my own company, I'd wanna kill the guys who would try to actually use my name and modify company norms to make their own subset just because they're not satisfied with mine.

--
Ede
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Reply to eden

you can question my religion! :smile: as long as its done out of good intentions and in a civilized way.

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Reply to scamtrOn

Quote :

Jesse Ventura said it best, that religion is just a "crutch for weak-minded people."

He also said that the XFL was here to stay...

If an argument can't be settled in one or two paragraphs, perhaps you're anal and should just let it go...

Reply to Grub

Does that discount his first statement?

Reply to dhlucke

DOesn't bother me one bit if you question my religion...I'm not the one whose going to hell [/Elayn's boyfriend] :wink:

If an argument can't be settled in one or two paragraphs, perhaps you're anal and should just let it go...

Reply to Grub

Why is it that I can have faith without religion and others can't?

Reply to dhlucke

You've been bringing faith up each time. Do you even HAVE any faith at all?
Cuz an atheist doesn't. And bringing it up so often seems to be telling me you're starting to develop your own spiritual beliefs.

--
Ede
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Reply to eden

LMAO, good one!

"Are you...spongeworthy?" :lol:

--
Ede
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Reply to eden

Quote :

Why is it that I can have faith without religion and others can't?

i believe everyone can can and most people do.

however, faith isn't all that goes into religion.

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Reply to scamtrOn

What are you trying to say? Who says I'm an atheist?

I just don't subscribe to the folly ways of organized religion.

One can believe in a higher power without a bible or restrictions on your way of living.

Reply to dhlucke

Yeah, I mean, we could create a religion that dedicates every sunday to parties, and promotes love for your fellow human, all the while requiring you to buy 24-packs each week and to read the weekly Sports results. Also pray for Bo Jackson. *waits for Aubby on this one*

--
Ede
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.php" target="_new">More updates and added sites as over 62 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Reply to eden

Don't try to side track the thread.

Why do you need religion? What is it that it does for you that you can't do on your own as a free thinking individual?

Reply to dhlucke

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