LCD's have arrived

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I noticed lately the price of LCD's has been dropping... alot. Today I
decided to pick up a Samsung 930B 19 inch LCD monitor to replace my 17 inch
NEC LCD1712. The older NEC monitor cost about 50 dollars more than the
Samsung 2 years ago, and of course it's smaller, but also does not have DVI.

The Samsung monitor is, in short, outstanding. It didn't come with a DVI
cable, but I bought one from Best Buy (the place that has it on sale) for
around 50 bucks for 6 feet of cable (ouch, at least they weren't Monster
Cables). What really excites me is the contrast, it really is very good,
about as good as the CRT's I've had . In games like Doom, there is much
more detail in the dark areas. And of course this monitor has 8ms response
time, which in practice means that the motion in games is very good. The
response curve is flatter than older LCD's, which means the colors tend to
shift towards grey rather than blue or red so much, which tends to look more
natural. But overall the "ghosting" is pretty much nonexistant and it would
take somebody very perceptive to see it.

And of course, the DVI connection allows the video card, rather than the
monitor, to scale images. My NVidia card seems to do a really good job at
this. This scaling pretty much means you can play in whatever resolution you
want, and it will at least look good enough for games. Playing Doom at
1024x768 with 4xS antialiasing seems to render a very nice looking picture.
There is some small letterboing, but overal the 4:3 viewing area is about
the same as a 19 inch CRT, and since the monitor's frame is black, it blends
in nicely.

The power consumption is also pretty low, about 38 watts max. My one
critique of the monitor- at default brightness it's just too friggin'
bright. Newer LCD monitors follow this trend. I find I have to set the
brightness below 33 percent to get a comfortable picture. Fortunately, the
power supply regulator is veyr good and I don't see any flickering like I
had on my old NEC LCD when I turned the brightness down low.

So, if you are in the mood for a new monitor, I'd think you'ld have to be
crazy NOT to consider one of these LCD's.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>
> The power consumption is also pretty low, about 38 watts max. My one
> critique of the monitor- at default brightness it's just too friggin'
> bright. Newer LCD monitors follow this trend.

I've had a Dell 2001FP (20.1", 1600x1200 native resolution, 16ms response)
for about a year now, and it has been great. As far as the brightness, I
thought that at first, but now I love it. Everything is so crisp and clean,
especially with DVI.

One problem I see is that 17"-19" LCD's have a native 1280x1024 resolution,
which isn't such a common resolution for games, even though they support it.
It's a 5:4 scale compared with 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200 which is the 4:3
scale, so those all scale well together. So scaling the 1280x1024 down to
1024x768 doesn't always look great on the screen if it is interpolated to
fit the entire screen.

While I know 19" LCD's are quite affordable, I recommend looking for a
1600x1200 native resoltion one to allow for best resolution scaling.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:5dlve.3248$wm.969@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> I noticed lately the price of LCD's has been dropping... alot. Today
> I
> decided to pick up a Samsung 930B 19 inch LCD monitor to replace my 17
> inch
> NEC LCD1712. The older NEC monitor cost about 50 dollars more than the
> Samsung 2 years ago, and of course it's smaller, but also does not have
> DVI.
>
> The Samsung monitor is, in short, outstanding. It didn't come with a DVI
> cable, but I bought one from Best Buy (the place that has it on sale) for
> around 50 bucks for 6 feet of cable (ouch, at least they weren't Monster
> Cables). What really excites me is the contrast, it really is very good,
> about as good as the CRT's I've had . In games like Doom, there is much
> more detail in the dark areas. And of course this monitor has 8ms
> response
> time, which in practice means that the motion in games is very good. The
> response curve is flatter than older LCD's, which means the colors tend to
> shift towards grey rather than blue or red so much, which tends to look
> more
> natural. But overall the "ghosting" is pretty much nonexistant and it
> would
> take somebody very perceptive to see it.
>
> And of course, the DVI connection allows the video card, rather than the
> monitor, to scale images. My NVidia card seems to do a really good job at
> this. This scaling pretty much means you can play in whatever resolution
> you
> want, and it will at least look good enough for games. Playing Doom at
> 1024x768 with 4xS antialiasing seems to render a very nice looking
> picture.
> There is some small letterboing, but overal the 4:3 viewing area is about
> the same as a 19 inch CRT, and since the monitor's frame is black, it
> blends
> in nicely.
>
> The power consumption is also pretty low, about 38 watts max. My one
> critique of the monitor- at default brightness it's just too friggin'
> bright. Newer LCD monitors follow this trend. I find I have to set the
> brightness below 33 percent to get a comfortable picture. Fortunately,
> the
> power supply regulator is veyr good and I don't see any flickering like I
> had on my old NEC LCD when I turned the brightness down low.
>
> So, if you are in the mood for a new monitor, I'd think you'ld have to be
> crazy NOT to consider one of these LCD's.
>
>

I too bought the Samsung 930B LCD monitor; Best Buy was selling it with $80
rebate. And yes this monitor is bright. Now the main reason that I gave
up on my 19inch CRT was that it was getting old and the picture was too dim
even with brightness set to max. Well I can't say the same thing about
this Samsung LCD. In fact, I'm still tweaking it to get the brightness to
an acceptable level. Its running at level 35 right now.

As to ghosting, I haven't seen any yet. Course at my age, I don't run as
fast as I use to in FPS games to even cause much ghosting. ;-)

The only issue that I had was running Windows at 1024 rez. The font type
seemed off. I wound up switching to 1280x1024 rez to see the font better.

Bottom line: this monitor rocks when it comes to playing FPS type games at
1280x1024 rez. And I'm only using the analog monitor cable.

http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB13&Number=314251&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:C7-dnfbRK_nfuSPfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> One problem I see is that 17"-19" LCD's have a native 1280x1024
resolution,
> which isn't such a common resolution for games, even though they support
it.
> It's a 5:4 scale compared with 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200 which is the
4:3
> scale

If you use a DVI connection, most video cards allow the videocard to do
the scaling. The newer videocards have integrated video hardware to do
scaling that works fairly well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I'd just like to add about lower resolutions looking blurry on an LCD:
that's how they are suppossed to look. Lower resolutions should look
blurrier when displayed on a monitor of the same size. No free lunch, no
way to magically make an image that contains less information look as sharp
as a picture containing more information (well, not without all sorts of
artificial bullshit like they have on TV's, that has no place on computer
monitors).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

still not as bright, resolution blows and you might have a few dead pixels
nobody wants to change


"Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:5dlve.3248$wm.969@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> I noticed lately the price of LCD's has been dropping... alot. Today
> I
> decided to pick up a Samsung 930B 19 inch LCD monitor to replace my 17
> inch
> NEC LCD1712. The older NEC monitor cost about 50 dollars more than the
> Samsung 2 years ago, and of course it's smaller, but also does not have
> DVI.
>
> The Samsung monitor is, in short, outstanding. It didn't come with a DVI
> cable, but I bought one from Best Buy (the place that has it on sale) for
> around 50 bucks for 6 feet of cable (ouch, at least they weren't Monster
> Cables). What really excites me is the contrast, it really is very good,
> about as good as the CRT's I've had . In games like Doom, there is much
> more detail in the dark areas. And of course this monitor has 8ms
> response
> time, which in practice means that the motion in games is very good. The
> response curve is flatter than older LCD's, which means the colors tend to
> shift towards grey rather than blue or red so much, which tends to look
> more
> natural. But overall the "ghosting" is pretty much nonexistant and it
> would
> take somebody very perceptive to see it.
>
> And of course, the DVI connection allows the video card, rather than the
> monitor, to scale images. My NVidia card seems to do a really good job at
> this. This scaling pretty much means you can play in whatever resolution
> you
> want, and it will at least look good enough for games. Playing Doom at
> 1024x768 with 4xS antialiasing seems to render a very nice looking
> picture.
> There is some small letterboing, but overal the 4:3 viewing area is about
> the same as a 19 inch CRT, and since the monitor's frame is black, it
> blends
> in nicely.
>
> The power consumption is also pretty low, about 38 watts max. My one
> critique of the monitor- at default brightness it's just too friggin'
> bright. Newer LCD monitors follow this trend. I find I have to set the
> brightness below 33 percent to get a comfortable picture. Fortunately,
> the
> power supply regulator is veyr good and I don't see any flickering like I
> had on my old NEC LCD when I turned the brightness down low.
>
> So, if you are in the mood for a new monitor, I'd think you'ld have to be
> crazy NOT to consider one of these LCD's.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:wRvve.5513$wm.1478@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> I'd just like to add about lower resolutions looking blurry on an LCD:
> that's how they are suppossed to look. Lower resolutions should look
> blurrier when displayed on a monitor of the same size. No free lunch, no
> way to magically make an image that contains less information look as
> sharp
> as a picture containing more information (well, not without all sorts of
> artificial bullshit like they have on TV's, that has no place on computer
> monitors).
>
>

I beg to differ. I thought this was the case before too. I realize with
1600x1200 native, because the pixel resolution is so fine, it seems to scale
down well. I run at 1024x768 all the time without any "blurriness" I tried
this on my friends (a year or so old) 19" 1280x1024 LCD and it didn't look
quite as defined.

The technology has definitely come a long way, and I haven't seen the latest
slew of monitors to pass through, so I may be speaking out of my ass (no,
this is no a flame opportunity).

I guess either way you look at it, LCD technology is definitely here for
gaming. It's a worthwhile investment. As far as dead pixels, getting a
quality monitor from a quality manufacturer is all you can do. I am lucky
that I don't have any so far (knock on wood). But if you get a good mfr,
some will replace the monitor with as few as 5 dead pixels, but 8 to12 is
more common. I think the technology is here however, that dead pixels are
much less likely since the manufacturing process has become quite refined.

 

[blarg]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Magnulus wrote:
> I'd just like to add about lower resolutions looking blurry on an LCD:
> that's how they are suppossed to look. Lower resolutions should look
> blurrier when displayed on a monitor of the same size. No free lunch, no
> way to magically make an image that contains less information look as sharp
> as a picture containing more information (well, not without all sorts of
> artificial bullshit like they have on TV's, that has no place on computer
> monitors).

Don't be ridiculous -- the "right" way to display images is the way
that looks best to the user. There's many different ways of upscaling
and rescaling images to fit a higher-resolution monitor. The methods
are hardly magical, and can be done without using analog signals (the
"artificial bullshit" I assume you're talking about).

I suspect most LCD monitors use something simple like bilinear
interpolation or even horribly bad nearest-neighbour, but there are
smarter methods possible.

Take a look here for some examples of the simple stuff:
http://www.designer-info.com/Writing/image_resample.htm

 

[nostromo]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.dogs>, Sun, 26 Jun 2005 01:52:54 GMT,
Anno Domini:

>I too bought the Samsung 930B LCD monitor; Best Buy was selling it with $80
>rebate. And yes this monitor is bright. Now the main reason that I gave
>up on my 19inch CRT was that it was getting old and the picture was too dim
>even with brightness set to max. Well I can't say the same thing about
>this Samsung LCD. In fact, I'm still tweaking it to get the brightness to
>an acceptable level. Its running at level 35 right now.
>
>As to ghosting, I haven't seen any yet. Course at my age, I don't run as
>fast as I use to in FPS games to even cause much ghosting. ;-)
>
>The only issue that I had was running Windows at 1024 rez. The font type
>seemed off. I wound up switching to 1280x1024 rez to see the font better.
>
>Bottom line: this monitor rocks when it comes to playing FPS type games at
>1280x1024 rez. And I'm only using the analog monitor cable.
>
>http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB13&Number=314251&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I can also highly recommend the Benq FP937s+ - this one beat out the Samsung
(imo) by a narrow margin & it is sensational!

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:

>>Bottom line: this monitor rocks when it comes to playing FPS type games at
>>1280x1024 rez. And I'm only using the analog monitor cable.
>>
>>http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB13&Number=314251&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
>
>I can also highly recommend the Benq FP937s+ - this one beat out the Samsung
>(imo) by a narrow margin & it is sensational!

So does it have good contrast (600:1 or better), 24-bit color at 16ms
or better, and decent color rendition?
Those three are the big problems of flatscreens, the ones never
mentioned in the blurbs for them, and, for some reason, the ones
reviewers tend to miss.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"blarg" <blarg123@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119809300.901566.102930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Don't be ridiculous -- the "right" way to display images is the way
> that looks best to the user. There's many different ways of upscaling
> and rescaling images to fit a higher-resolution monitor. The methods
> are hardly magical, and can be done without using analog signals (the
> "artificial bullshit" I assume you're talking about).

I was reffering to the sharpness control on most TV's. It works by
increasing the noise in high frequency areas of the picture. It just shows
you cannot add detail to an image .

 

[blarg]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Dead pixels is a big problem, but if you have an especially nice
retailer in your area, some will actually take them back if there any.
At the Future Shop I got mine from, they actually opened about 10-12
boxes until they found one without any. I doubt I'm going to make it
onto any preferred customers lists by asking them to do it
Definitely not something to buy online or mail order.

One big bonus of my LCD that I wasn't really expecting is that it shows
very little to no glare under direct sunlight. With my CRT, I'd have
to monkey with the blinds depending on the time of day for dark games,
with the LCD it never seems to be a problem.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Lou wrote:
> "Lou" <NospamLou@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:XJKve.2128$p%3.14835@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
>>"Joe Mama" <bloodywanker@drugsmakemecool.com> wrote in message
>>news:42bf4e02$0$16705$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<snip>
>>>
>>>Sounds like you bought the wrong crt. In general:
>>>
>>>Good quality CRT>Good quality LCD>Poor quality CRT>Poor quality LCD
>>>
>>>You can't go past a Trinitron if you've got the desk space.
>>>
>>><disclaimer>
>>>My 2 cents.
>>></disclaimer>
>>>
>>>HTH,
>>> -joe.
>>
>>I have tried a few LCD's for gaming and still not convinced to trade for
>>my Dell (Sony) Trinitron 21" CRT.
>>The colors of the LCD,s are a bit more vibrant, but I don't want to go any
>>smaller than 19" LCD and at that size the native resolutions are
>>1600x1200. I am also very picky so it would have to have no visible
>>blurring at all (at least less than 8ms).
>>
>>
>
>
> Oops, I meant 20" LCD
>
> Lou
>

Yep, I've got the exact same one - and a Sony branded one as well. No
matter where I go, or whose computer I'm working with/on (I'm a
freelance audio engineer, so I see a lot of computers in a month), I've
yet to use a monitor that looks better.

Cheers,
-joe.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I read somewhere that large-scale CRT production is winding down this
summer, so the future is definitely flat screened.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <kguve.8675$Bm.3039@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
Magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:
# If you use a DVI connection, most video cards allow the videocard to do
#the scaling. The newer videocards have integrated video hardware to do
#scaling that works fairly well.

Yes, but...

If the re-scaled image does not map well to the physical pixel size and
aspect ratio, you can get strange effects that look like color banding,
aliasing or moire'. The effect is similar to running very high
resolution on an old large dot pitch monitor. Just because they
supported the frequency didn't mean it looked good.

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Just say "no" to liars SCO and Soyo
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | Return services to local CIS offices!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Lou]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zo8we.1772$R5.498@news.indigo.ie...
>I read somewhere that large-scale CRT production is winding down this
>summer, so the future is definitely flat screened.
>
>

CRT's have been hard to find in stores for a while. I think its more of a
marketing issue and also its easier for the stores to stock the lighter and
smaller LCD's.

 

[shawk]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zo8we.1772$R5.498@news.indigo.ie...
>I read somewhere that large-scale CRT production is winding down this
>summer, so the future is definitely flat screened.
>
>

Good news if you're in the market for one though - my refurbed 21" Dell CRT
was £85 ($154USD) - excellent monitor and a bargain. I also have a 17" 12ms
LCD - purely for work - nowhere near good enough for games or DVD's (fast
enough but poor contrast ratio means not enough greyscales - everything is
pure black in shadows). Looks like we're starting to get to the stage where
my CRT is living on borrowed time though.

 

[Lou]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1119977853.25951.0@a lovely person.uk.clara.net...
>
> "One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zo8we.1772$R5.498@news.indigo.ie...
>>I read somewhere that large-scale CRT production is winding down this
>>summer, so the future is definitely flat screened.
>>
>>
>
> Good news if you're in the market for one though - my refurbed 21" Dell
> CRT was £85 ($154USD) - excellent monitor and a bargain. I also have a
> 17" 12ms LCD - purely for work - nowhere near good enough for games or
> DVD's (fast enough but poor contrast ratio means not enough greyscales -
> everything is pure black in shadows). Looks like we're starting to get to
> the stage where my CRT is living on borrowed time though.
>
>
>
>
>
>

If the brightness on that Dell starts to get too bright and the black too
light, then you can fix it. Its a common problem with the Dell and Sony 21"
Trinitrons. I got my 21" Dell for free because it was in a scrap pile(they
probably thought was worn out). Took it home and did a Google search and
found this:
http://www.hutzelman.com/home/hardware/mods/monitor/

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?s=7e34130360a2c021428be281ebf23fe9&t=19549&page=2&pp=20

Bought a resistor at the local electronics shop for $.15 and did the fix.
Now I have a Great looking 21" CRT.

I have two PC's. One for gaming with the Dell 21" CRT and the other PC for
everything else with a 21" Samsung 213T (great monitor for this).

Lou

 

[shawk]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Lou" <NospamLou@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:T3owe.2422$p%3.15583@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
> news:1119977853.25951.0@a lovely person.uk.clara.net...
>>
>> "One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:zo8we.1772$R5.498@news.indigo.ie...
>>>I read somewhere that large-scale CRT production is winding down this
>>>summer, so the future is definitely flat screened.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Good news if you're in the market for one though - my refurbed 21" Dell
>> CRT was £85 ($154USD) - excellent monitor and a bargain. I also have a
>> 17" 12ms LCD - purely for work - nowhere near good enough for games or
>> DVD's (fast enough but poor contrast ratio means not enough greyscales -
>> everything is pure black in shadows). Looks like we're starting to get
>> to the stage where my CRT is living on borrowed time though.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> If the brightness on that Dell starts to get too bright and the black too
> light, then you can fix it. Its a common problem with the Dell and Sony
> 21" Trinitrons. I got my 21" Dell for free because it was in a scrap
> pile(they probably thought was worn out). Took it home and did a Google
> search and found this:
> http://www.hutzelman.com/home/hardware/mods/monitor/
>
> http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?s=7e34130360a2c021428be281ebf23fe9&t=19549&page=2&pp=20
>
> Bought a resistor at the local electronics shop for $.15 and did the fix.
> Now I have a Great looking 21" CRT.
>
> I have two PC's. One for gaming with the Dell 21" CRT and the other PC for
> everything else with a 21" Samsung 213T (great monitor for this).
>
> Lou
>
>
>
>

Nice one Lou - thanks for that.

 

[Toby]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 2005-06-29, dawg <> wrote:
> Had the same problem with my 19-ich Viewsonic. Thing is,it's fixable. Took
> me two weeks to get the edges straight and all settings to my liking. At
> first it was strange going from the old style tube to the flat screen but
> you get used to it. The only thing I don't like about big CRT's is the
> frigging weight. 50lbs.Geez.And me with a paralyzed arm.

Yeah, my monitor weighs 41 kg (90.38 lbs, or 6.5 Stone) - I can't even
move it on my own, let alone lift it.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.