A Piano Question

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Actually, two piano questions. First, does anyone know why there are both
two pedal and three pedal Yamaha C7's? I've been told that the 2 pedal
versions are gray market pianos imported from Japan, but that doesn't really
answer the question of why there are only 2 pedals on the Japanese versions.
Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that there's 'one
more'.

Second, do any of the smart people on this newsgroup know anything abut
Yamaha's CS series of grand pianos? I've come across 2 or 3 that seem to be
pretty darned good deals, but can't find out any information about them
other than the fact that they're 8'2" pianos (putting them between the 7'6"
C7 and the 9 foot CFIII).

If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet long?"

Thanks,
--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com
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More about piano question
  1. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Dave Martin <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >Actually, two piano questions. First, does anyone know why there are both
    >two pedal and three pedal Yamaha C7's? I've been told that the 2 pedal
    >versions are gray market pianos imported from Japan, but that doesn't really
    >answer the question of why there are only 2 pedals on the Japanese versions.
    >Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that there's 'one
    >more'.

    Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held down
    when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    sustains all the notes while it's pressed). This requires a whole lot
    of mechanical stuff to implement, and it is used only in very few classical
    works.

    On _some_ pianos, it is a bass damper pedal, where it sustains all of the
    notes below a certain point (I want to say below middle C). This is also
    not something you see used very often, but it's basically a cheaper way to
    implement the same sort of effect.

    The majority of pianos out there seem to skip the middle pedal completely
    and just have two pedals. I have played a few pianos that had three pedals
    but the middle pedal was just for show and didn't actually connect up to
    anything.

    >Second, do any of the smart people on this newsgroup know anything abut
    >Yamaha's CS series of grand pianos? I've come across 2 or 3 that seem to be
    >pretty darned good deals, but can't find out any information about them
    >other than the fact that they're 8'2" pianos (putting them between the 7'6"
    >C7 and the 9 foot CFIII).

    In Hawaii, they were great sounding pianos. Here on the east coast, they
    don't seem to sound as good. I don't know if that is a humidity thing or
    just the way people have them set up. But I have heard some of them sound
    great, and I have also been very impressed at the ability of a good piano
    tech to get a huge variety of sounds out of any good piano. I am convinced
    that the piano setup is as important as the quality of the original piano.

    >If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    >wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet long?"

    Find the best piano tech in town and ask him what he knows of for sale
    right now. He'll know what particular instruments are good and what
    aren't.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  2. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:


    > Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    > middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held
    > down when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    > sustains all the notes while it's pressed). This requires a whole lot
    > of mechanical stuff to implement, and it is used only in very few
    > classical works.
    >
    > On _some_ pianos, it is a bass damper pedal, where it sustains all of the
    > notes below a certain point (I want to say below middle C). This is also
    > not something you see used very often, but it's basically a cheaper way to
    > implement the same sort of effect.

    Could this be a grand vs upright sort of difference? I've had my head
    inside more uprights than grands, & all I've seen use the middle pedal as a
    bass damper (why don't they call it an un-damper?). It's actually been a
    few years since I had my head inside ANY acoustic piano, so my memory's
    kind of foggy. I seem to recall the point as being about an octave below
    middle C.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <chsrsj$rnc$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
    > I have played a few pianos that had three pedals
    > but the middle pedal was just for show and didn't actually connect up to
    > anything.

    I (well, my parents) had an old upright like that when I was little..
    the piano teacher told me that pedal was for counting the beats.

    --
    Jay Levitt |
    Wellesley, MA | Hi!
    Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
    http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
  4. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Damn, you're good Scott! <g>

    --


    Roger W. Norman
    SirMusic Studio

    "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
    news:chsrsj$rnc$1@panix2.panix.com...
    > Dave Martin <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > >Actually, two piano questions. First, does anyone know why there are both
    > >two pedal and three pedal Yamaha C7's? I've been told that the 2 pedal
    > >versions are gray market pianos imported from Japan, but that doesn't
    really
    > >answer the question of why there are only 2 pedals on the Japanese
    versions.
    > >Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that there's
    'one
    > >more'.
    >
    > Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    > middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held
    down
    > when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    > sustains all the notes while it's pressed). This requires a whole lot
    > of mechanical stuff to implement, and it is used only in very few
    classical
    > works.
    >
    > On _some_ pianos, it is a bass damper pedal, where it sustains all of the
    > notes below a certain point (I want to say below middle C). This is also
    > not something you see used very often, but it's basically a cheaper way to
    > implement the same sort of effect.
    >
    > The majority of pianos out there seem to skip the middle pedal completely
    > and just have two pedals. I have played a few pianos that had three
    pedals
    > but the middle pedal was just for show and didn't actually connect up to
    > anything.
    >
    > >Second, do any of the smart people on this newsgroup know anything abut
    > >Yamaha's CS series of grand pianos? I've come across 2 or 3 that seem to
    be
    > >pretty darned good deals, but can't find out any information about them
    > >other than the fact that they're 8'2" pianos (putting them between the
    7'6"
    > >C7 and the 9 foot CFIII).
    >
    > In Hawaii, they were great sounding pianos. Here on the east coast, they
    > don't seem to sound as good. I don't know if that is a humidity thing or
    > just the way people have them set up. But I have heard some of them sound
    > great, and I have also been very impressed at the ability of a good piano
    > tech to get a huge variety of sounds out of any good piano. I am
    convinced
    > that the piano setup is as important as the quality of the original piano.
    >
    > >If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    > >wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet
    long?"
    >
    > Find the best piano tech in town and ask him what he knows of for sale
    > right now. He'll know what particular instruments are good and what
    > aren't.
    > --scott
    >
    > --
    > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  5. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <Vfm0d.467$az6.22@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> dmainc@earthlink.net writes:

    > If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    > wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet long?"

    A 7 foot deal is something to contend with.

    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  6. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that there's 'one
    >more'.>>

    The middle pedal is "sostenuto" a rarely understood & rarely used effect
    whereby only those notes being held down when the pedal is engaged are
    sustained. Most players (& composers for that matter) don't really know how to
    make much use of this pedal.
    >
    >Second, do any of the smart people on this newsgroup know anything abut
    >Yamaha's CS series of grand pianos? >>

    My understanding is that, unlike the C series, the CS pianos are handmade.

    I've come across 2 or 3 that seem to
    >be
    >pretty darned good deals, but can't find out any information about them
    >other than the fact that they're 8'2" pianos (putting them between the 7'6"
    >C7 and the 9 foot CFIII).
    >
    >If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    >wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet long?">>

    Ten or more years ago I wheedled a Yamaha dealer down to about $18,000 for a
    very specific C7. That's probably not an available deal anymore.

    Scott Fraser
  7. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <20040910145237.10414.00002283@mb-m23.aol.com>,
    scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:

    [snip]

    >
    > Ten or more years ago I wheedled a Yamaha dealer down to about $18,000 for a
    > very specific C7. That's probably not an available deal anymore.
    >
    > Scott Fraser


    For the last several years, Yamaha has had a program in which they loan C7s and
    DC7s to universities and then sell them as used at the end of the year.
    Stanford participated in the program as did some other schools. I'm not sure if
    the program is still going, but you might find radio and newspaper ads
    announcing such sales if there is still such a program in your area.

    -Jay
    --
    x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
    x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
    x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
    x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x
  8. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message ...
    > Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    > middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held
    down
    > when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    > sustains all the notes while it's pressed). This requires a whole lot
    > of mechanical stuff to implement, and it is used only in very few
    classical
    > works.

    This can be a really cool effect as some notes sustain and others don't. It
    also means that you can hold down a chord in one range and as you play
    around those notes, the harmonics make those strings vibrate even if you
    don't play them.

    > On _some_ pianos, it is a bass damper pedal, where it sustains all of the
    > notes below a certain point (I want to say below middle C). This is also
    > not something you see used very often, but it's basically a cheaper way to
    > implement the same sort of effect.

    You only see that on upright pianos. Grands usually do it the "correct" way
    and uprights do it in the lower register. Has to do with the differences in
    mechanical action between the two kinds of instruments.

    --Ben

    --
    Benjamin Maas
    Fifth Circle Audio
    Los Angeles, CA
    http://www.fifthcircle.com

    Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies
  9. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Dave Martin" <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:Vfm0d.467$az6.22@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > Actually, two piano questions. First, does anyone know why there are both
    > two pedal and three pedal Yamaha C7's? I've been told that the 2 pedal
    > versions are gray market pianos imported from Japan, but that doesn't
    really
    > answer the question of why there are only 2 pedals on the Japanese
    versions.
    > Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that there's 'one
    more'.

    My C7 is a grey market from Japan, and it has 2 pedals.

    > If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    > wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet long?"

    Buy a grey market piano from Japan.

    Try Bob Barnes at the Piano Exchange in St. Petersburg, FL
    (727) 463-7135

    I've bought 2 C-7's from him with great results, for less than half the
    going rate.
    Both from 1965. sound fantastic (Patrick Moraz used mine in Orlando
    for some recording when I lived there).
  10. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Jay Kadis <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote
    > For the last several years, Yamaha has had a program in which they loan C7s and
    > DC7s to universities and then sell them as used at the end of the year.
    > Stanford participated in the program as did some other schools. I'm not sure if
    > the program is still going, but you might find radio and newspaper ads
    > announcing such sales if there is still such a program in your area.
    >
    > -Jay

    Um. I went to one of these sales several years ago at a conservatory,
    and the smell of "scam" was thick. They were bringing in truckloads of
    upright pianos of all sorts and setting them up in the school
    represented as these "played only by conservatory students" deals. The
    halls were lined with cheap digital pianos for the folks without much
    cash. High pressure sales tactics. The whole thing just stank.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    > middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held down
    > when the pedal is pressed

    > On _some_ pianos, it is a bass damper pedal, where it sustains all of the
    > notes below a certain point (I want to say below middle C).

    On my piano, the highest note affected by the middle pedal is the D
    below middle C. If memory serves, this is (perhaps not coincidentally),
    also the lowest note that uses two strings instead of just one[1].

    One other thing you'll notice from looking at my piano, at least,
    is that two of the pedals are nice shiny brass and the other one is
    really tarnished. But they're all made out of the same material,
    so what does that tell you?

    - Logan

    [1] And also, again not coincidentally, also the note that goes out
    of tune the fastest...
  12. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    agent86 wrote:
    > inside more uprights than grands, & all I've seen use the middle pedal as a
    > bass damper (why don't they call it an un-damper?). It's actually been a

    Well, the things it moves are called dampers, right? So maybe it's
    named by what it actuates rather than the effect it achieves.

    - Logan
  13. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > Find the best piano tech in town and ask him what he knows of for sale
    > right now. He'll know what particular instruments are good and what
    > aren't.

    What Scott said; I'm generally amazed by what my piano man has seen in
    his travels between visits here. There are lots of excellent pianos out
    there and a good tech knows which one's to consider.

    I wanted to offload the chickering with the ampico A mechanism because
    the damned roll box is right in the way of my skinny knees. But the best
    players that come here rave about it and we decided to keep it. When I
    told the tech that he smiled and said, "It's a great piano, Hank".

    Duh. Maybe I'll have my legs shortened.

    --
    ha
  14. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal.

    I played a piano one time -- forget the manufacturer -- for which the
    middle pedal raised a cloth curtain between the hammers and the strings.
    Made for an interesting soft tone. Haven't seen that since.

    --
    Jonathan Roberts * guitar, keyboards, vocals * North River Preservation
    ----------------------------------------------
    To reach me reverse: moc(dot)xobop(at)ggestran
  15. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
    >Damn, you're good Scott! <g>

    No, but my piano teacher was really, really good. I was more interested in
    what was inside the piano than how to play it, though.

    She had a Bechstein upright with a real sostenuto pedal and it fascinated
    me because I couldn't figure out what it was for. In the meantime I never
    got good enough to play Fuer Elise all the way through. I still like pianos,
    though.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  16. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > On _most_ pianos with one, the
    > middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held down
    > when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    > sustains all the notes while it's pressed).

    On my piano's all the notes I hold down sustain naturally....so why would I want a
    pedal to do that?


    "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
  17. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Nathan West <natewest@nc.rr.com> wrote:
    >Scott Dorsey wrote:
    >
    >> On _most_ pianos with one, the
    >> middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held down
    >> when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    >> sustains all the notes while it's pressed).
    >
    >On my piano's all the notes I hold down sustain naturally....so why would I want a
    >pedal to do that?

    So you don't have to hold them all down so long. Otherwise you'd need
    something like thirty fingers to play Satie's Gymnopedie because you'd
    be holding everything down all the time. With this fancy technology,
    you only need thirty fingers for the Rachmaninoff second.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  18. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20040910145237.10414.00002283@mb-m23.aol.com...
    > >Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the fact that
    there's 'one
    > >more'.>>
    >
    > The middle pedal is "sostenuto" a rarely understood & rarely used
    effect
    > whereby only those notes being held down when the pedal is engaged
    are
    > sustained. Most players (& composers for that matter) don't really
    know how to
    > make much use of this pedal.

    It's a great way to get a drone effect. Play a low octave, and hold
    down the sostenuto pedal. You can now play normally and occasionally
    repeat the drone octave for a continuous sound.

    Norm Strong
  19. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Nathan West wrote:

    > Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > > On _most_ pianos with one, the middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it
    > > sustains only the notes that are held down when the pedal is pressed
    > > (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which sustains all the notes while
    > > it's pressed).

    > On my piano's all the notes I hold down sustain naturally....so why would
    > I want a pedal to do that?

    So that those notes played will sustain when you move your fingers to
    different keys, yet _all_ the strings won't be singing.

    --
    ha
  20. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >For the last several years, Yamaha has had a program in which they loan
    >C7s and
    >DC7s to universities and then sell them as used at the end of the year.
    >
    >Stanford participated in the program as did some other schools. I'm not
    >sure if
    >the program is still going, but you might find radio and newspaper ads
    >announcing such sales if there is still such a program in your area.>>

    I've attended several of such college piano sales (not limited to Yamahas) &
    generally found they were selling off a lot of small instruments from lesser
    makers, lots of mediocre Kawais, etc, so be sure to get there early to see if
    any real instruments are still available.

    Scott Fraser
  21. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:

    > So you don't have to hold them all down so long. Otherwise you'd need
    > something like thirty fingers to play Satie's Gymnopedie because you'd
    > be holding everything down all the time.

    My next door neighbor just got a baby grand. I understand it now. The pedal lets the
    pianist press a set of notes, and when the pedal is pressed just those notes will
    sustain and you can play many other notes on top of it...sort of like a crude tape
    recorder with sound on sound.

    > With this fancy technology,
    > you only need thirty fingers for the Rachmaninoff second.

    Fancy indeed...Rachmanifoff. My neighbor was playing some George Winston stuff that
    utilizes the pedal for big giant sustained and augmented chords. Tricky to do.


    --
    Nathan

    "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
  22. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    hank alrich wrote:

    > So that those notes played will sustain when you move your fingers to
    > different keys, yet _all_ the strings won't be singing.

    I'm almost embarrassed to say I have never known that. Oh well I do now. My
    next door neighbor just got a baby grand and he demonstrated some tunes using
    the pedal. Pretty cool stuff.
    --
    Nathan

    "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
  23. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Nathan West wrote:

    > The pedal lets the pianist press a set of notes, and when the pedal is
    > pressed just those notes will sustain and you can play many other notes on
    > top of it...sort of like a crude tape recorder with sound on sound.

    No hiss, no wow, no flutter. <g>

    --
    ha
  24. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:20:37 +0200, Dave Martin wrote:

    > Actually, two piano questions. First, does anyone know why there are
    > both two pedal and three pedal Yamaha C7's? I've been told that the 2
    > pedal versions are gray market pianos imported from Japan, but that
    > doesn't really answer the question of why there are only 2 pedals on the
    > Japanese versions. Or why 3 pedals are better than two, other than the
    > fact that there's 'one more'.

    One pedal is for sustain, lifting all the dampers
    One pedal is for soft, shifting the hamers so only 2 out of three strings
    are hit.
    One pedal is for sostenuto, keeping the dampers lifted of the keys pressed
    at the moment the pedal is pressed. This pedal is not allways present.
    One pedal, a piano pedal, changing the mechanique, so one can play
    softer and still using all three strings. This is a typivcal Fazioli
    feature. This 4th pedal is not present very often.
    Some, mostly upright piano's, use the middle pedal (locked) to reduce the
    sound of the piano: a rehearsal pedal.
    --
    Chel van Gennip
    Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
  25. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    If memory serves rightly, the middle pedal was added in the late 19th
    century to allow pianists to imitate an organ "pedal" (which is why
    the mechanism is limited to the lower piano strings). The organist of
    course has only to leave his foot on one of the pedals for it to
    continue sounding forever. He then noodles away on the manuals. The
    middle piano pedal is a substitute that will get you though several
    bars without having to hit the key a second time. Transcriptions of
    organ works for piano are the most common places to find examples.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    hank alrich wrote:

    > Nathan West wrote:

    >>The pedal lets the pianist press a set of notes, and when the pedal is
    >>pressed just those notes will sustain and you can play many other notes on
    >>top of it...sort of like a crude tape recorder with sound on sound.

    > No hiss, no wow, no flutter. <g>

    Yes, but at least when the tape recorder is playing back a single
    note, that one note won't be out of tune with itself...

    - Logan
  27. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Chel van Gennip wrote:
    > One pedal, a piano pedal, changing the mechanique, so one can play
    > softer and still using all three strings. This is a typivcal Fazioli
    > feature. This 4th pedal is not present very often.

    Is it really that uncommon? I'd say that most uprights I've played
    use that method of reducing the volume rather than shifting the
    hammers laterally to strike only two strings. In fact, I have only
    seen the shifting hammers feature on grands, but I haven't played
    a huge number of pianos. (Or at least I haven't paid close attention
    to what the pedals do on all of them.)

    - Logan
  28. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Logan Shaw wrote:

    > Yes, but at least when the tape recorder is playing back a single
    > note, that one note won't be out of tune with itself...

    Depends on how mis-aligned it is when you are getting print through from the
    record head...he he.
    --
    Nathan

    "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
  29. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On 10 Sep 2004 14:30:43 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

    >Hardly anyone ever uses the middle pedal. On _most_ pianos with one, the
    >middle pedal is a sostenuto, and it sustains only the notes that are held down
    >when the pedal is pressed (unlike the right pedal, the damper, which
    >sustains all the notes while it's pressed). This requires a whole lot
    >of mechanical stuff to implement, and it is used only in very few classical
    >works.


    This is the "correct" function of the middle pedal. However, if you
    include upright pianos as well, I think by FAR the most common
    function of a middle pedal is to introduce a mute for low-volume
    practice. The pedal, which latches, brings a felt strip between
    hammers and strings.

    In commercial premises you sometimes see the same mechanism used to
    bring up metal strips for a jangle effect.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
  30. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:29:58 GMT, Nathan West <natewest@nc.rr.com>
    wrote:

    >On my piano's all the notes I hold down sustain naturally....so why would I want a
    >pedal to do that?

    On your piano's what? :-)

    Because you haven't got 88 fingers.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
  31. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Laurence Payne wrote:

    > Because you haven't got 88 fingers.

    A lot of woman have told me I do.
    --
    Nathan

    "Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
  32. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    The middle pedal on most grands and a few uprights ( have seen a 1924 Baldwin
    and some Mason & Hamlin uprights with this) is called the sostenuto.

    It works in the following manner. Play a chord, press the pedal. the chord will
    be sustained and none of the other notes being played will sustain unless you
    add the use of the right hand sustain pedal.

    On other pianos, the middle pedal may only sustain all of the bass notes and
    not the treble notes OR it may operate some other device such as the "practice
    mode" that I have seen on some Kawai uprights.

    The practice mode was enacted by pressing the middle pedal and then sliding the
    pedal to the side.
    The pedal then stayed down until released and moved it to its normal position.
    Richard H. Kuschel
    "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
  33. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thanks, Guys - some excellent responses. But one of my original questions
    still remains largely a mystery to me, and that's the specifics of the CS
    series of Yamaha Grand pianos. Scott Fraser remembers them as being hand
    made (unlike the C7) and Scott Dorsey remembers them as not sounding as good
    on the east coast as they did in Hawaii (by the way, I agree that the setup
    and maintenance is the single most important thing...), but until this
    month, I'd never head of them at all.

    Might anyone else have some more info about them?


    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  34. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "MarkSG" <glinskym@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:Ewn0d.9731$yp2.815@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    > My C7 is a grey market from Japan, and it has 2 pedals.
    >
    > > If there's a third question, it would have to be, "Where can I get a
    > > wonderfully great deal on a wonderfully great piano at least 7 feet
    long?"
    >
    > Buy a grey market piano from Japan.
    >
    Next question - Yamaha's web pages (and those of several Yamaha dealers)
    make a point that the woods are chosen and seasoned specifically for the US
    market while the gray market pianos are not. Does this sound kinda like
    marketspeech to y'all? After all, Tokyo's temperature and humidity is just
    as unpleasant in the summertime as Manhattan's - why would the wood be
    treated any different for different markets? (I could come closer to
    understanding if they were talking about pianos built for Denver or built
    for Florida, but they don't appear to be that specific - just the US versus
    Japan...)

    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  35. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <c301d.24161$Wv5.22095@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> dmainc@earthlink.net writes:

    > Next question - Yamaha's web pages (and those of several Yamaha dealers)
    > make a point that the woods are chosen and seasoned specifically for the US
    > market while the gray market pianos are not. Does this sound kinda like
    > marketspeech to y'all?

    It sounds more like "don't buy gray market because . . . . " when they
    really mean they don't want their legitimate dealers undercut.

    I knew a few people who brought cheap 12-string guitars from Mexico
    into the US back in early '60's because they wanted to look like Pete
    Seeger and nobody in the US was making a 12-string. They sounded good
    for the first few months and then fell apart. But occasionally someone
    would hear of a good maker down there, buy a more sensibly priced
    guitar from him, bring it into the US and it lasted as long as it
    should.

    I don't see any reason why Yamaha would use wood that wouldn't hold up
    world wide. However, I could see them setting up the piano at the
    fractory for the kind of sound that seems to be most popular in that
    segment of the world. It might involve different gage strings or felt
    of a different hardness - nothing that a local setup job couldn't fix,
    but it makes it easier for dealers to sell to the typical customer who
    will just put it in the living room and leave it alone for 20 years.


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  36. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Dave Martin wrote:

    > Next question - Yamaha's web pages (and those of several Yamaha dealers)
    > make a point that the woods are chosen and seasoned specifically for the US
    > market while the gray market pianos are not. Does this sound kinda like
    > marketspeech to y'all? After all, Tokyo's temperature and humidity is just
    > as unpleasant in the summertime as Manhattan's - why would the wood be
    > treated any different for different markets? (I could come closer to
    > understanding if they were talking about pianos built for Denver or built
    > for Florida, but they don't appear to be that specific - just the US versus
    > Japan...)

    I wonder if it's just that Yamaha thinks US buyers prefer a type of
    voicing that is more easily achieved by using specific woods? Otherwise,
    while pianos certainly do change their act when the climate changes, I'd
    think many instruments are kept in pretty well regulated environments,
    possibly somewhat negating the temp/humidity related shifts. That said,
    it'd take some serious isolation here to put my room anywhere near a
    room in Austin TXm, for example. I'd need to install lawn sprinklers on
    the ceiling.

    --
    ha
  37. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
    news:1gjzzpv.19eypxl11ofti2N%walkinay@thegrid.net...
    > I wonder if it's just that Yamaha thinks US buyers prefer a type of
    > voicing that is more easily achieved by using specific woods?

    I'm sure that's most of the story. The first Yamahas I ever encountered in
    the early '70s were voiced really bright in a very strange way. By the '80s
    the ones from the rental companies were pretty decent and really consistant
    relative to any other brands.

    --
    Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
    Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
    Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
    615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
  38. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <df8183d5.0409101955.242fddca@posting.google.com>,
    eagner2@yahoo.com (Eric Agner) wrote:

    > Jay Kadis <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote
    > > For the last several years, Yamaha has had a program in which they loan C7s
    > > and
    > > DC7s to universities and then sell them as used at the end of the year.
    > > Stanford participated in the program as did some other schools. I'm not
    > > sure if
    > > the program is still going, but you might find radio and newspaper ads
    > > announcing such sales if there is still such a program in your area.
    > >
    > > -Jay
    >
    > Um. I went to one of these sales several years ago at a conservatory,
    > and the smell of "scam" was thick. They were bringing in truckloads of
    > upright pianos of all sorts and setting them up in the school
    > represented as these "played only by conservatory students" deals. The
    > halls were lined with cheap digital pianos for the folks without much
    > cash. High pressure sales tactics. The whole thing just stank.


    Maybe, but someone got a great DC7 Disklavier we were using and hated to part
    with. The Stanford sale is the coming weekend if anyone's interested.

    -Jay
    --
    x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
    x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
    x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
    x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x
  39. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    ScotFraser <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote:

    > I've attended several of such college piano sales (not limited to Yamahas) &
    > generally found they were selling off a lot of small instruments from lesser
    > makers, lots of mediocre Kawais, etc, so be sure to get there early to see if
    > any real instruments are still available.

    These days it seems like there is one of these sales every couple of weeks.
    At least, here in Toronto.

    Rob R.
  40. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:47:37 +0200, Chel van Gennip
    <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote:

    >One pedal is for soft, shifting the hamers so only 2 out of three strings
    >are hit.

    I am in the process of recording an 85 year old superb classical
    player and I asked him why the keyboard seemed to be shifting. I
    though I was seeing an optical illusion. He explained that he was
    pressing the third pedal which I believe he called the una chorda this
    is Italian for single string. He said the pedal shifts the hammers to
    strike only one string. This both reduces volume and gives a different
    texture to the sound.
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