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A kid with no clue requests suggestions for a wired headset

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Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:13:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello everyone. First time google grouper, but hopefully not the
last.

I'm in charge of my Church's sound system, and require your help. I
only started volunteering about a year ago on the video system, but
our sound guy had to move unexpectedly and after six months of video I
got the audio job as well, with about just enough training to know how
to turn the system on; not much more.

Well, while I quickly learned how to control volume and stuff like
that I knew that I shouldn't just know how to use the equipment to get
past another service without a problem, but I should know how it
works, not just how to work it. Not only would this help me in case
future problems occurred, but I figured the "job" deserved more
respect that something to be kicked and cursed every Sunday. Slowly
I've taught myself a few things, researched online, and even found a
very short book. While I still know next to nothing, I do feel as if
I have a very slight idea as to what I'm doing now.

Side question: Does anyone know if there's a class college's teach
that would help out in this area? I read that the position is
considered "sound engineer" but upon searching for such things I find
nothing.

Anyways... Our Church has always been in financial trouble, but
recently a tiny, tiny, very small light has appeared at the end of a
VERY long tunnel. As of the last few months that light has gotten
brighter. Upon realizing this, our Pastor quietly informed the
worship team that we "may be able to possibly purchase certain items
at some time." While vague, it's his way of telling us to decide what
we want and kinda make an "unofficially official" proposal. Among
other things, the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
no where to clip onto. She wants me to look for one that connects to
the XLR cable that's currently used in her ball mic.

I did a little research and showed her the different cosmetic styles
out there and she chose this...

http://www.midi-classics.com/i/p24487.jpg

I thought this was a good sign, but after searching I found out that
it's pretty old (comparatively). I'm hoping someone here could help
me out by pointing me in the direction of a cosmetically similar
(basically appearance to be exactly the same) of a modern day
equivalence. While I may have started to learn a little about sound
systems, I know nothing about what's out there.

Thanks for your time, it's greatly appreciated. My Church of about
50-60 would greatly appreciate it.

P.S., if anyone has some suggestions as to how I can further my
knowledge in such things it would be a REALLY BIG HELP. Thank you
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:56:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:

>Thanks for your time, it's greatly appreciated. My Church of about
>50-60 would greatly appreciate it.

This is easy. A church of 50 - 60 does NOT need a sound system. A
church of 500 - 600 does not need a sound system. Even St Paul's
Cathedral here in London does not need a sound system.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:56:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Don Pearce" <donald@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
news:41455252.172719328@news.plus.net
> On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your time, it's greatly appreciated. My Church of about
>> 50-60 would greatly appreciate it.
>
> This is easy. A church of 50 - 60 does NOT need a sound system. A
> church of 500 - 600 does not need a sound system. Even St Paul's
> Cathedral here in London does not need a sound system.

This is IME way off base.

Put a church in a store front with a low acoustic tile ceiling, lots of
padded chairs, lots of curtains and acoustic partitiions around the edeges,
electric instruments for the vocalists to compete with, and throw a liberal
dose of American culture and you've got a proven need for a sound system for
the vocalists.

Been there, done that.

There's only one way to have a room with seating for 600 people, any kind of
SPL at the listener, a person speaking with a normal untrained voice, and
that is to have one heck of a live room. If the spoken message is in Latin
which none of the worshipers understand anyhow, this live room will have
almost zero intelligility, but nobody will care because they can't
understand what's being said, anyhow. This is BTW a valid form of worship
for some people, and I say let them enjoy it!

Fast forward to an evengelical church where reliable perception of the word
is key, in a room with even just 200 people in it and appropriate acoustics,
and levels at the listeners in the back of the room are going to be very
much on the too low side.

Let that relatively untrained (or contemporarily trained) voice be that of a
song leader, who is supposed to be heard over 200 people singing vigorously
in his face, and you've got real need for a sound system.

Key concept: to understand modern church sound you need to have a clue about
modern churches and modern worship. IOW, it helps to actually go to church!
;-)
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 12:35:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Matthew" <la-bomba@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8b966bd6.0409122313.3fc090fb@posting.google.com...
> Hello everyone. First time google grouper, but hopefully not the
> last.
>
> I'm in charge of my Church's sound system, and require your help. >

cut

> I did a little research and showed her the different cosmetic styles
> out there and she chose this...
>
> http://www.midi-classics.com/i/p24487.jpg

check http://www.akgusa.com/product.aspx click lavalier & headset mics. i
have a c 420 that seems to work well.
its a condenser and thus requires phantom power.

some models of condenser headsets require a little box to be worn. it may
have batterys and/or mute switch and/or preamp.

some form of clip to the body is a good idea. if the cable snags on
something the headset can be jerked from the body with the attendant clatter
in the PA as it impacts the floor

some others to consider http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/wh30.asp
http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/wh20.asp
http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/type/#headworn

> P.S., if anyone has some suggestions as to how I can further my
> knowledge in such things it would be a REALLY BIG HELP. Thank you

obtain and read the "Yamaha sound renforcement handbook" or the "Yamaha
guide to sound systems for worship"
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/Model...

a quick search will supply a number of sources for the book(s).
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 1:39:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Don Pearce wrote:


> Not for the worst, predatory types.

Noted. Now stop preying on the topic and answer the guy's question or
leave it to others.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:42:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:

>s, the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
>interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
>cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
>no where to clip onto. She wants me to look for one that connects to
>the XLR cable that's currently used in her ball mic.

I don't want to corrupt a clean-living God-fearing lad like yourself,
but, believe me, there are PLENTY of unobtrusive places a lady can
put her battery pack. Look at any female TV presenter - they're all
wearing one.



CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:n3uak05qms14lru7mkr17300norfrcc093@4ax.com
> On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:
>
>> s, the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
>> interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
>> cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
>> no where to clip onto. She wants me to look for one that connects to
>> the XLR cable that's currently used in her ball mic.

> I don't want to corrupt a clean-living God-fearing lad like yourself,
> but, believe me, there are PLENTY of unobtrusive places a lady can
> put her battery pack. Look at any female TV presenter - they're all
> wearing one.

Furthermore, people need to really watch TV and other media, and see how
many stylish and reasonably modest ladies and gentlemen wear the
transmitters and other modern electronic paraphernalia including cell phones
out in plain sight.

Wearing hardware where it can be seen in public dates back to at least the
6-shooter.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <n3uak05qms14lru7mkr17300norfrcc093@4ax.com>,
Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:
>
>>s, the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
>>interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
>>cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
>>no where to clip onto. She wants me to look for one that connects to
>>the XLR cable that's currently used in her ball mic.
>
>I don't want to corrupt a clean-living God-fearing lad like yourself,
>but, believe me, there are PLENTY of unobtrusive places a lady can
>put her battery pack. Look at any female TV presenter - they're all
>wearing one.

That said, I think the cheapest usable electret around is the Telex headset
mike. I'd personally suggest getting a used Countryman if you can find
one.

A real sleeper is the Shure SM-12. It's a tiny dynamic element in there, so
the output is kind of low and it's kind of bulky. It does not have the
low cross section of the electret mikes and doesn't look so good on camera.
But it sounds surprisingly good once the talent learns how to place it.
It's also cheaper than the electret types.
--scott

That said, I tend to agree that a small church shouldn't need PA, and that
fixing acoustical problems will always buy you more for your money than trying
to fudge around them with PA. But then, I go to a church that is a couple
centuries old and has a sounding board mounted over the pulpit in place of PA...
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:42:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<Mumdnf6Nucp_59jcRVn-sw@comcast.com>...
> "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:n3uak05qms14lru7mkr17300norfrcc093@4ax.com
> > On 13 Sep 2004 00:13:30 -0700, la-bomba@comcast.net (Matthew) wrote:
> >
> >> s, the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
> >> interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
> >> cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
> >> no where to clip onto. She wants me to look for one that connects to
> >> the XLR cable that's currently used in her ball mic.
>
> > I don't want to corrupt a clean-living God-fearing lad like yourself,
> > but, believe me, there are PLENTY of unobtrusive places a lady can
> > put her battery pack. Look at any female TV presenter - they're all
> > wearing one.
>
> Furthermore, people need to really watch TV and other media, and see how
> many stylish and reasonably modest ladies and gentlemen wear the
> transmitters and other modern electronic paraphernalia including cell phones
> out in plain sight.
>
> Wearing hardware where it can be seen in public dates back to at least the
> 6-shooter.

How about the sword?

So she expects to wear a headset mic - granted, some of those can be
near-invisible - but then a cabled hookup? Where will be the junction
between the thin headset wire and the XLR cable? So it's OK to have an
XLR connector dangling somewhere but not a bodypack transmitter? There
are *really* small units on the market now... but of course going
wireless is another issue altogether. But certainly a more elegant one
in so many ways. What happens if she steps on the XLR cable while
wearing the headset, for instance? Is she going to walk out on "stage"
and *then* put on the headset? Or is she going to drag a tail out
there to the pulpit?

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:56:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:46:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>Furthermore, people need to really watch TV and other media, and see how
>many stylish and reasonably modest ladies and gentlemen wear the
>transmitters and other modern electronic paraphernalia including cell phones
>out in plain sight.
>

Yup. Interesting that this lady considers a headset mic acceptably
invisible but is coy about the battery pack :-)


CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:56:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:65vak09kbag32a1qdf5v1r1jekhn3thcke@4ax.com
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:46:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, people need to really watch TV and other media, and see
>> how many stylish and reasonably modest ladies and gentlemen wear the
>> transmitters and other modern electronic paraphernalia including
>> cell phones out in plain sight.
>>
>
> Yup. Interesting that this lady considers a headset mic acceptably
> invisible but is coy about the battery pack :-)

Good point. I think she needs to listen to those worship songs she leads.
;-)
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 8:42:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:39:03 -0700, so what <sowhat@nospam.edu> wrote:

>Don Pearce wrote:
>
>
>> Not for the worst, predatory types.
>
>Noted. Now stop preying on the topic and answer the guy's question or
>leave it to others.

Already did that at the start of this thread.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 12:25:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Matthew wrote:

> the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
> interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
> cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
> no where to clip onto.

Whether this makes sense or not is another question, but let me just
point out one good thing about this situation: you don't have to
worry about the headaches of wireless stuff.

Batteries are one of the annoyances. Do you go rechargeable, or do
you buy a big box of alkalines? Do you use them more than once and
risk them running out if you don't keep proper track, or do you use
them only once knowing that you're tossing out batteries with maybe
80% power left while you're on a tight budget?

The other thing about wireless is that there can sometimes be annoying
interference, and it's impossible to predict when it will happen.
Just yesterday this happened to me. Everything went OK on Saturday
evening, and everything was fine during the sound check Sunday morning.
But when the guy who was doing annoucements actually got up to do them,
suddenly there was a bunch of hiss and crackling and so on. It wasn't
really really horrible, but it was probably mildly distracting. So after
that service and before the next one, I checked everything out, and
the problem was gone. The battery wasn't low, etc., etc. In the next
service, the problem did not recur.

Then another time, we have a wireless Shure SM58 that we were using
during a wedding. Everything was perfectly fine during the rehearsal
the night before and during the sound check an hour before the ceremony.
The soloist got up to sing her solo and about one minute into it,
the SM58 just started going totally ape. There was no backup mic.
I believe I had suggested it but someone in the wedding party vetoed
it because they didn't want the clutter on stage. Later, the
music director, who had accompanied the soloist on cello or guitar
or something, was visibly frustrated and fired off something like
"dude, always remember to check the battery" in my direction.
Thing is, I had. The battery was fresh. Just to be sure, after
the wedding I tried a brand new battery in the same mic, and the
noise was still happening. But the next day, that noise was gone
and I haven't seen it come back since. (The music director later
apologized for being snappy about it. He was just really frustrated.
And I can understand that, since I was frustrated too.)

Anyway, the point is not that it's impossible to get wireless stuff
to work well, because it probably is possible. The point is that
with the kind of money you're likely to be able to spend, it's
really easy to run into problems with wireless mics.

I guess the other point was to vent a little about how much I hate
wireless mics, but anyway you get the idea...

- Logan
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 7:14:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:25:41 GMT, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Matthew wrote:
>
>> the worship leader (a.k.a. lead singer) has expressed
>> interest in a headset microphone. Problem being she doesn't want a
>> cordless, because she always wears dresses and a belt clip would have
>> no where to clip onto.
>
> Whether this makes sense or not is another question, but let me just
> point out one good thing about this situation: you don't have to
> worry about the headaches of wireless stuff.
>

When I was running sound for Worship, the Pastor "granted" (yeah, it was
THAT kind of Church) me a rehearsal. I rented "Singing In the Rain" and
showed the team the soundstage scene.

Recommended. Why the line "I Can't make Love to a Bush" is doubly On
Topic around here lately :) 
!