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Sync a DAT recorder to a video camera?

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Anonymous
September 18, 2004 10:00:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi all,

We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
Thanks for any help here.

Mike
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 2:51:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sync a DAT recorder to a video camera?

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2004, 6:00pm (EDT-3) From:
snarflemike@yahoo.com (MikeĀ Silva)
Hi all,
We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording our
choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
Thanks for any help here.
Mike <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Basically what you're doing is shooting a music video. Use the track you
have as playback through an appropriate amp/speaker. Turn on the camera
mic and use that track as your guide track for syncing the good track in
post.

Eric
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 8:12:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

snarflemike@yahoo.com (Mike Silva) wrote in message news:<20619edc.0409181700.be474ab@posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
>
> We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
> our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
> incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
> suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
> magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
> Thanks for any help here.
>
> Mike

Unless it's a timecode capable DAT, there isn't a way to synch it but
you can simply do an audio slate like the old days in the movies. Take
2 pieces of wood, something you can see and hear clearly, and snap
them together on camera just before the start of the video, recording
the audio on both DAT and camera's audio and video taping the hit. Use
that "hit" as a synch reference point on a computer based editing
system and you're all set.

Audy O
Related resources
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 12:10:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Silva <snarflemike@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
>our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
>incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
>suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
>magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
>Thanks for any help here.

No, the DA-P1 does not have timecode.

All you can do is slate things. Before each take, have someone read the
take out and clap their hands, so you can synch the two up together. If
all the clocks are more or less the same, the video and audio sources will
not drift as they run. You may need to occasionally add or drop a frame
on the video here or there at a cut, in order to keep them together, since
the DA P-1 will not lock to the video synch blackburst or the camera timecode.

On a large production, both the video and audio systems lock to timecode
so they can be easily synched up in post.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 5:50:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

snarflemike@yahoo.com (Mike Silva) wrote in
news:20619edc.0409181700.be474ab@posting.google.com:

> Hi all,
>
> We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
> our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
> incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
> suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
> magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
> Thanks for any help here.

The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the
video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain
control squashing, but it will be exactly in time.
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 5:50:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
> The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in
> jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes
> through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be
> exactly in time.

Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the
synchronization/time?
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 9:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:40 GMT, Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
>> our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
>> incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
>> suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
>> magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
>> Thanks for any help here.
>
>The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the
>video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain
>control squashing, but it will be exactly in time.

How so?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 10:02:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9569642E99ADCgulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.192>...
> snarflemike@yahoo.com (Mike Silva) wrote in
> news:20619edc.0409181700.be474ab@posting.google.com:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
> > our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
> > incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
> > suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
> > magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
> > Thanks for any help here.
>
> The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the
> video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain
> control squashing, but it will be exactly in time.

Making the camera audio be the same mix as the DAT audio will make
syncing the two up easier in a video edit system. A clap marker might
be helpful too, but simple "phasing" of the two audio tracks will work
fine as well. The fun really begins when you want to use more than
one camera!

Philip Perkins
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 12:15:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in
news:10kr4977a3ujc79@corp.supernews.com:

> "Carey Carlan" wrote ...
>> The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in
>> jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes
>> through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be
>> exactly in time.
>
> Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the
> synchronization/time?

If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the
audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output
to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video
tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video.

Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT
trying to accomplish that I didn't follow?
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 12:15:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
> Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what
> is the OT trying to accomplish that I didn't follow?

They are recording/videotaping an original performance.
They are not performing to pre-recorded music.
September 20, 2004 1:43:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I think you guys are talking two different things here.

Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and
lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the
cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this
way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will
give you an uncompressed audio track).



Carey Carlan <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9569A56059032gulfjoehotmailcom@207.69.189.195...
> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in
> news:10kr4977a3ujc79@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > "Carey Carlan" wrote ...
> >> The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in
> >> jack of the video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes
> >> through the cameras gain control squashing, but it will be
> >> exactly in time.
> >
> > Please explain how this would have *ANY* effect on the
> > synchronization/time?
>
> If I have a DAT recording and I want to make a video that syncs to the
> audio, I play back the audio so action can move to it and split the output
> to the audio input jack of the camera. The audio recorded onto the video
> tape goes through the nasty squasher but it is in time with the video.
>
> Knowing that you're smart enough to already know that, what is the OT
> trying to accomplish that I didn't follow?
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 6:15:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
> > our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
> > incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
> > suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
> > magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
> > Thanks for any help here.
>
> The very simplest way is to plug the DAT into the audio in jack of the
> video camera. The quality will suffer as it goes through the cameras gain
> control squashing, but it will be exactly in time.

That would make no difference whatsoever, other than to trash the quality of
the audio.

You cannot get proper sync between any dv cam and an external recorder
without hardware sync. It's one thing to get the audio aligned with the
video, another again to deal with the drift caused by independent digital
clocks. When two clocks are "running wild" they will always drift apart by
a matter of up to 1/2 a second per hour, so you have to cut/crossfade tiny
segments every 15 minutes or so to maintain sync. It's a PITA, but it's the
only way to do it with pro-sumer gear.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 11:09:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<24n3d.455859$M95.375805@pd7tw1no>...
> I think you guys are talking two different things here.
>
> Sounds like the stuff is already on DAT and they want to play it back and
> lip sync to make a video.In this case you are right to run it into the
> cameras audio input if it has one (you will probably lose audio quality this
> way).....or you can use the slate idea also and sync it later (this way will
> give you an uncompressed audio track).

Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same
time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound.
Appologies for not being more clear.

Mike
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 11:16:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in message news:<cijsvb$mio$1@panix2.panix.com>...
> Mike Silva <snarflemike@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >We've got a Tascam DA-P1 DAT recorder that we've used for recording
> >our choir, and now the question has come up of making a video that
> >incorporates audio recorded on the DAT. Is there a way to sync up a
> >suitable video camera (or cameras) to the Tascam? If so, what are the
> >magic words to look for (a standard, a format, or whatever it takes).
> >Thanks for any help here.
>
> No, the DA-P1 does not have timecode.

OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode
capability.

In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what
would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us
record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and
would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity.
I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we
decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral
recording. Thanks.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 11:22:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Silva" wrote...
> Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same
> time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound.
> Appologies for not being more clear.

Just record both and sync them in post. Any decent video NLE
application will allow you to slide the DAT audio track back
and forth to match up to the video. Many of us do this all the
time and find it no big deal.

You might have some sync slippage over long periods of time
(10s of minutes), but easily dealt with in NLE, at least IME.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 11:29:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Silva" wrote ...
> OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode
> capability.
>
> In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what
> would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us
> record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and
> would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity.
> I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we
> decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral
> recording. Thanks.

Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post-
production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record
(and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a
significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format
(usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and
syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.)

You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might
find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have
never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song,
at least not with any of the equipment I have used.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 2:05:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Silva wrote:
>
> Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same
> time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound.

Over how long a take will you need them to stay perfectly synced?

If it's short takes (or short cuts in the final product) you can probably get away with just letting the two clocks run wild. If it's long uninterrupted shots, you'll probably want to try and lock them together.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 4:55:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:<10ktq9qrb6aek1b@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Mike Silva" wrote ...
> > OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode
> > capability.
> >
> > In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what
> > would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us
> > record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and
> > would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity.
> > I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we
> > decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral
> > recording. Thanks.
>
> Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post-
> production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record
> (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a
> significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format
> (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and
> syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.)
>
> You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might
> find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have
> never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song,
> at least not with any of the equipment I have used.

OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also
need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say
about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some
understanding of the situation before I had that talk.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 7:34:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20619edc.0409200616.798b4eaf@posting.google.com> snarflemike@yahoo.com writes:

> In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what
> would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us
> record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and
> would have timecode.

Fostex PD-6

http://www.fostexdvd.net/fxdvd_route/docs/product/pd6/p...


(when you win the lottery, of course)

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 8:25:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Silva <snarflemike@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also
>need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say
>about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some
>understanding of the situation before I had that talk.

It's not "filming," please. It's "taping."

Talk to the post guys and see what they can take. They might be very happy
taking a wild DAT, then again they might think you're insane for even thinking
about it. If they're billing per hour, they will probably be delighted....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 9:54:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

We've done exactly this thing on takes over 30 min and the sync was fine.

Philip Perkins CAS
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 1:56:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message news:<2r8gv9F1791gcU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> Mike Silva wrote:
> >
> > Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same
> > time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound.
>
> Over how long a take will you need them to stay perfectly synced?
>
> If it's short takes (or short cuts in the final product) you can probably get away with just letting the two clocks run wild. If it's long uninterrupted shots, you'll probably want to try and lock them together.

Usually no more than 10 minutes, with about 5 minutes being typical.
It's sounding more and more like this should not be a problem.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 2:11:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you're not doing both of the pieces, then you definitely need to have
some type of slate, whether it's a hand clap or a snare hit or whatever.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mike Silva" <snarflemike@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20619edc.0409201155.6c5c5c64@posting.google.com...
> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:<10ktq9qrb6aek1b@corp.supernews.com>...
> > "Mike Silva" wrote ...
> > > OK, thanks to all who pointed out that we would need timecode
> > > capability.
> > >
> > > In the realm of "when I win the lottery", can you folks suggest what
> > > would be a good piece of replacement equipment that would let us
> > > record CD-quality sound, preferably with more than 2 mic inputs, and
> > > would have timecode. Portable would be a plus, but not a necessity.
> > > I'd like to become more familiar with the current stuff in case we
> > > decide we'd like to upgrade. Again, the target here is choral
> > > recording. Thanks.
> >
> > Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post-
> > production (editing) methodology you will be using. I record
> > (and videotape) a lot of choral music and I have never had a
> > significant problem with just shooting on a digital video format
> > (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the DAT recording and
> > syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my case.)
> >
> > You could just test it (in rehearsal or something). You might
> > find that it isn't the big problem you are anticipating. I have
> > never seen a detectable slip over the course of a single song,
> > at least not with any of the equipment I have used.
>
> OK, I'll definitely give it a try and see how it comes out. I also
> need to talk to the person who would be filming and see what they say
> about the camera(s) and post-production. I just wanted to have some
> understanding of the situation before I had that talk.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 6:44:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:29:16 +0200, Richard Crowley wrote:

> Perhaps you should mention what camera(s) and video post- production
> (editing) methodology you will be using. I record (and videotape) a lot
> of choral music and I have never had a significant problem with just
> shooting on a digital video format (usually DV or DVCAM) and taking the
> DAT recording and syncing them together in NLE (Adobe Premiere in my
> case.)

I have never noticed problems syncing digital video (Video8) and digital
sound. Crystal clock accuracy normally is quite sufficient, remember
even the very cheap digital watches are only fast or slow seconds a
month.
In a good video application syncing the video sound with external sound
isn't much of a problem.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 6:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Silva wrote:

> Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message news:<2r8gv9F1791gcU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>
>> Mike Silva wrote:
>>
>>> Just to clarify, we want to record the audio and video at the same
>>> time, but we want to use the DAT to get the best quality sound.
>>
>> Over how long a take will you need them to stay perfectly synced?
>>
>> If it's short takes (or short cuts in the final product) you can probably get away with just letting the two clocks run wild. If it's long uninterrupted shots, you'll probably want to try and lock them together.
>
>
> Usually no more than 10 minutes, with about 5 minutes being typical.
> It's sounding more and more like this should not be a problem.

Just slate them all & keep good notes and you should be fine.
!