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Another BIBLE Videogame: The Rebel Planet: Orion

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August 18, 2005 10:27:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the Xbox
videogame console
(looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)


website: http://www.therebelplanet.com/

trailer for the game:

http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/OrionGameplay...
(high resolution)
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/OrionGameplay... (low
resolution)


quote:
______________________________

"Before the Great Flood of Noah, thousands of years passed of which we know
virtually nothing. Civilizations may have risen and fallen - technologies
discovered and lost. What little knowledge that has come down to us through
the early chapters of Genesis reveals a world very different than our own.
Myth and legend also point to an ancient past rich with history.
Enter the world of The Rebel Planet. Rebel Planet Creations has taken this
mysterious world before the Flood and has created an imaginative fantasy
world where the truth of Scripture is our foundation and theme, but only the
minds' imagination our limit in telling the ancient tale of redemption and
faith.

In our first tale, Adam is an older man hardened by centuries of dwelling on
his own sin and the suffering he has brought upon the world. But into his
world comes a young lieutenant named Orion (the biblical Enoch) whose own
journey of faith will become the catalyst for bringing Adam back to a place
of faith and hope. Indeed our first tale is ultimately the story of Adam's
conversion to faith and hope in the promised Seed to come."
_______________________________


screenshots
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/Orion_Javan.j...
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/Ship_Orion.jp...
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/physics.jpg
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/sunset.jpg
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/Orion.jpg
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/combat.jpg
http://www.rebelplanetcreations.com/Media/Orion_Javan2....


Features:


a.. Seven huge levels
b.. A vast world to explore filled with quests, creatures, friends and
villains
c.. A living breathing ecosystem
d.. Dynamic day/night cycles
e.. An advanced weather system
f.. State of the art physics engine
g.. Advanced particle system delivers stunning special effects
h.. High polycount character models expertly animated
i.. A deep fictional history underlies a rich storyline waiting to be
discovered
j.. Develop your characters physical, psychological and spiritual health
and attributes
k.. Advanced artificial intelligence gives Non-Player Characters a life of
their own
l.. Superb voice acting with audio for all in-game dialog
m.. An outstanding music score


Rebel Planet Creations, LLC
1707 Golf View Dr
Buffalo, MN 55313
info@therebelplanet.com
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 4:03:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

Highlander wrote:
>
> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the Xbox
> videogame console (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)

This is a joke, right? I couldn't find the punch line.


> i.. A deep fictional history underlies a rich storyline waiting to be
> discovered

Heh. Okay, maybe this is it. Kinda sums it up all religion.

If this is a sincere venture ... wow. Just wow.


- Sheldon, as usual, adding no value
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 4:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

Sheldon England wrote:

> Highlander wrote:
>
>>this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the Xbox
>>videogame console (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)
>
>
> This is a joke, right? I couldn't find the punch line.
>
>
>
>> i.. A deep fictional history underlies a rich storyline waiting to be
>>discovered
>
>
> Heh. Okay, maybe this is it. Kinda sums it up all religion.
>
> If this is a sincere venture ... wow. Just wow.

I dunno. I liked _The Neverhood_, and that was apparently Bible-based.
Sort of.

- Ron ^*^
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
August 19, 2005 1:47:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
>
> http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp

Dare to dream...

turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
August 19, 2005 1:55:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the Xbox
> videogame console
> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)

We all know PS2 owners are either heretics or agnostic. C'mon, think man! ;) 
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 3:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Highlander <Highlander> in
pIidnTjfronNhJjeRVn-pA@comcast.com
> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the
> Xbox videogame console
> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)

because ps2 is of the devil, looks like a game where we can commit lots
of sins before the great flood washes us away. I wonder what
possibilities for immorality this game posses?
--
"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and
catastrophe." - H. G. Wells (1866-1946)

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
August 19, 2005 5:41:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Fri, 19 Aug 2005
11:25:47 +1000, Anno Domini:

>Quoth The Raven: Highlander <Highlander> in
>pIidnTjfronNhJjeRVn-pA@comcast.com
>> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the
>> Xbox videogame console
>> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)
>
>because ps2 is of the devil, looks like a game where we can commit lots
>of sins before the great flood washes us away. I wonder what
>possibilities for immorality this game posses?

Mate, w/o getting into the whole OT religion bullshit thing YET AGAIN, even
as a Christian, I'll not touch it with a 10' pole if the gameplay is shite.
It would be like the hypocrisy of watching a porno because 'it has a good
storyline' in reverse, lol. >;-)

However, I was just thinking the other day about how many games there are
out there ('A' titles I'm talking about, puzzle/abstract games aside), where
you don't kill anyone (or any thing), & where pretty much noone dies. Last
one I could think of was TLJ, but I think there was still some 'incidental'
death in that as well. Or ATITD the mmorpg. That's it. I'm out.

Is this what we've come to in 'adult' entertainment? Everything has to have
death to entertain? I enter into evidence games like GTA, Hitman & The
Suffering which are probably the pinnacle of gratuitous violence for the
Beavis & Butthead generation (with regard to topic material, gameplay merits
aside). Happy to discuss like adults, which I know some of us are. :) 

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
August 19, 2005 5:41:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 2005-08-19, Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote:
>
> Is this what we've come to in 'adult' entertainment? Everything has to have
> death to entertain? I enter into evidence games like GTA, Hitman & The
> Suffering which are probably the pinnacle of gratuitous violence for the
> Beavis & Butthead generation.> aside).

I mentioned Beavis and Butthead to a younger student placement at work the
other week and he said "Yeah, I think I remember watching that once, when I
was about twelve".

Made me feel old :D 

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Ignore any mail delivery error.
August 19, 2005 6:10:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Fri, 19 Aug 2005
11:25:47 +1000, Anno Domini:

>Quoth The Raven: Highlander <Highlander> in
>pIidnTjfronNhJjeRVn-pA@comcast.com
>> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the
>> Xbox videogame console
>> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)
>
>because ps2 is of the devil, looks like a game where we can commit lots
>of sins before the great flood washes us away. I wonder what
>possibilities for immorality this game posses?

Just had a quick look at the 'hi-res' video. So far:

- medieval architecture
- dinosaurs
- longbows
- spiritual health meter!
- giant spiders
- *stars* in place of blood splatter

All this 5000+BC. Impressive. (though the engine doesn't look bad & at least
the NPCs talk & move ;) 

Hey, the gameplay & storyline good be fantastic. Who am I to judge?

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
August 19, 2005 6:10:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Just had a quick look at the 'hi-res' video. So far:
>
> - medieval architecture
> - dinosaurs

< snip >

OK, whoa. Architecture some 6,000+ years ahead of its time and critters that
became extinct millions of years ago ("IF they existed").

They lost me at "spiritual health meter."
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 9:34:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

turk wrote:
> "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
>>
>>http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
>
>
> Dare to dream...
>
> turk


I had no idea these things existed.
That picture of "Bibleman" leaves me speechless.
August 19, 2005 9:34:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124476784.950276.166990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> djin wrote:
>> turk wrote:
>> > "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >>But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
>> >>
>> >>http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
>> >
>> >
>> > Dare to dream...
>> >
>> > turk
>>
>>
>> I had no idea these things existed.
>> That picture of "Bibleman" leaves me speechless.
>
> I got a pretty good chuckle the first time I saw it.
>
> What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
> consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
> mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
> (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
> whole lot different).

Actually, metaphorically he did. He was pretty up front about it. He said
so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the
earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.", which is directly
followed by some anti-family rant in Matt: 35-37... "For I have come to turn
a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law
against her motherinlaw- a man's enemies will be the members of his own
household." Not sure where everybody got the idea that Jesus was pro-family
with this stuff and the fact he discouraged marriage at all, except to keep
men from sleeping around if they absolutely had to. Why do you think he
always kept the company of unmarried young men? Not that there's anything
wrong with that...

turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 10:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

Werebat wrote:

> I dunno. I liked _The Neverhood_, and that was apparently Bible-based.
> Sort of.

Very vaguely.

--
Arian

Fan of 'Order of the Stick'
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript

Address me by name at North-net (with no hyphen), a 3-letter company
trading in the great south land.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 10:26:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

Arian wrote:

> Werebat wrote:
>
>> I dunno. I liked _The Neverhood_, and that was apparently
>> Bible-based. Sort of.
>
>
> Very vaguely.

If you watched the developer's video thingy that came on the game CD,
and/or read some of the stuff that Doug Ten-Naples wrote about the game
and his personal beliefs, it becomes very evident that he strongly
intended the game to be a Christian allegory. If you actually read the
entite "Wall of History", this is even more evident (Is there anywhere
online that I can find the transcription of the Wall of History from the
Neverhood?).

Personally I thought it was the best example of injecting religion into
a video game that I have ever seen. It had just enough of a presence
that it wasn't obvious and didn't interfere with the game itself, but
you could see it if you were looking for it -- and it you weren't
looking for it, the message was still there.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 11:12:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

knight37 wrote:
>
> > > "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > >>But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
> > >>
> > >>http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
>
> What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
> consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
> mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
> (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
> whole lot different).

Of course Jesus didn't carry a sword. He uses a whip: John 2:15

--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gaertk@aol.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kgbooklog/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 12:50:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

turk wrote:
>
> "knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
> > consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
> > mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked ...
>
> Actually, metaphorically he did. He was pretty up front about it. He said
> so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the
> earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

That's weird. In another book I read -- also written by humans with
their own agendas -- in chapter five, paragraph three, it says that
Jesus wore a clown nose, big floppy shoes, and liked to sing Teletubby
songs when he wasn't wearing a sombrero and riding a giraffe across
China.

I wonder which human's imagination is better? After all, if it is
written in a book by someone who claims to be inspired by their
imaginary ruling entity, and there is coincidentally NO EVIDENCE to back
it up, just the desire to believe, then how can it possibly be false?
9_9


- Sheldon, metaphorically ... my a%$
August 20, 2005 12:50:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:43064695.B29844A@netscape.net...
> turk wrote:
>>
>> "knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
>> > consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
>> > mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
>> > ...
>>
>> Actually, metaphorically he did. He was pretty up front about it. He
>> said
>> so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to
>> the
>> earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
>
> That's weird. In another book I read -- also written by humans with
> their own agendas -- in chapter five, paragraph three, it says that
> Jesus wore a clown nose, big floppy shoes, and liked to sing Teletubby
> songs when he wasn't wearing a sombrero and riding a giraffe across
> China.
>
> I wonder which human's imagination is better? After all, if it is
> written in a book by someone who claims to be inspired by their
> imaginary ruling entity, and there is coincidentally NO EVIDENCE to back
> it up, just the desire to believe, then how can it possibly be false?
> 9_9
>
>
> - Sheldon, metaphorically ... my a%$

Far as I know, he never actually had a sword or clown nose, floppy shoes,
etc. There're enough absurdities and morally repugnant sections in the
Bible to have to make things up.

turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 12:51:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

"Sketch" <nah@no.nut> wrote in message news:D e4rt7$go4$1@news.tamu.edu...
>> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the Xbox
>> videogame console
>> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)
>
> We all know PS2 owners are either heretics or agnostic. C'mon, think man!
> ;) 

I know I'm statting the obvious here, but I think this recent wave of
Christian proselytizing games
are coming from Windows developers, so the logical step to bringing it into
the console realm is the Xbox,
since they share a similiar development environment.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 12:52:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>
> knight37 wrote:
> >
> > > > "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> > > >>But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
> > > >>
> > > >>http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
> >
> > What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
> > consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
> > mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
> > (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
> > whole lot different).
>
> Of course Jesus didn't carry a sword. He uses a whip: John 2:15

I forgot to mention that he even crafted it himself.

--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: gaertk@aol.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kgbooklog/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 4:09:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In message <04OdnYbKNPH3z5veRVn-sw@comcast.com>, turk
<turk96@comcast.net> writes
>"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:43064695.B29844A@netscape.net...
>> I wonder which human's imagination is better? After all, if it is
>> written in a book by someone who claims to be inspired by their
>> imaginary ruling entity, and there is coincidentally NO EVIDENCE to back
>> it up, just the desire to believe, then how can it possibly be false?
>> 9_9
>>
>>
>> - Sheldon, metaphorically ... my a%$
>
>Far as I know, he never actually had a sword or clown nose, floppy shoes,
>etc. There're enough absurdities and morally repugnant sections in the
>Bible to have to make things up.
>
Well yes, except that his point is basically that it is all made up in
the first place. Someone said to be called Matthew tells us Jesus had a
sword. Someone said to be called Sheldon tells us Jesus had a clown's
nose. Why should we believe Matthew any more than Sheldon - or indeed
vice versa?
--
John Secker
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 4:22:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

> because ps2 is of the devil, looks like a game where we can commit lots
> of sins before the great flood washes us away. I wonder what possibilities
> for immorality this game posses?

I wonder if there'll be a "hot coffee" version? :-)
August 20, 2005 9:37:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake Konrad Gaertner <kgaertner@worldnet.att.net>, Fri, 19 Aug 2005
19:12:15 GMT, Anno Domini:

>knight37 wrote:
>>
>> > > "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > >
>> > >>But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
>> > >>
>> > >>http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
>>
>> What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
>> consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
>> mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
>> (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
>> whole lot different).
>
>Of course Jesus didn't carry a sword. He uses a whip: John 2:15

Very good point. Maybe in later installments then:

Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 11:02:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" wrote:

> Actually, metaphorically (Jesus) did carry a sword. He was pretty up
> front about it. He said so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have
> come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a
> sword.", which is directly followed by some anti-family rant in Matt:
> 35-37... "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter
> against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw- a man's
> enemies will be the members of his own household." Not sure where
> everybody got the idea that Jesus was pro-family with this stuff...

turk, I think that - like you said - Jesus metaphorically meant when he said
(or Matthew or whomever wrote it all down): "I did not come to bring peace,
but a sword.", and then the Man against father, etc.stuff. could be compared
to not-so-new psychology-speak called "co-dependence".

That Jesus was saying to people; to think for yourselves, and not be an
unhappy co-habitant causing or contributing to an unhealthy family dynamic.
For example, if the father was a shepherd, and if the son was not happy
following in his father's path of work then the son should venture forth
(and be allowed to do so without hand-wringing and grief trips), and find
one's own bliss and calling - but then again - don't abandon those family
members who are in need.

My 2 cents, and I'm not an biblical expert whatsoever. However - this
passage really spoke to me at a time when I needed to make decision to find
my own path - and without turning my back on those I love - my family.

Back to regular fun programming: madness and mayhem! :-)

Mark
August 20, 2005 11:33:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 19 Aug 2005 13:54:54 -0700,
Anno Domini:

>
>Knight37 wrote:
>> turk wrote:
>> > > What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
>> > > consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
>> > > mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
>> > > (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
>> > > whole lot different).
>> >
>> > Actually, metaphorically he did. He was pretty up front about it. He said
>> > so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the
>> > earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.",
>>
>> He may have carried a metephorical sword, but I know for a fact that he
>> didn't have a real one like BIBLEMAN because I got the Jesus action
>> figure.
>
>Here's a picture of my action figure:
>
>http://www.jayandsilentbob.com/budchrisdass1.html
>
>I wanted to get the Jesus with the Kung-Fu grip but I couldn't find it.

You idiot! ROFLMAO! (though I shouldn't, he, he ;-)

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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August 20, 2005 11:34:31 AM

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Thus spake "turk" <turk96@comcast.net>, Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:23:54 -0500,
Anno Domini:

>> What I thought was goofy about it... would even a religious person
>> consider this something they should be subjecting their kids to? I
>> mean, he's got a SWORD. Jesus didn't carry a SWORD last time I checked
>> (if he had, I'm thinking the New Testament would have turned out a
>> whole lot different).
>
>Actually, metaphorically he did. He was pretty up front about it. He said
>so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the
>earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.", which is directly
>followed by some anti-family rant in Matt: 35-37... "For I have come to turn
>a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law
>against her motherinlaw- a man's enemies will be the members of his own
>household." Not sure where everybody got the idea that Jesus was pro-family
>with this stuff and the fact he discouraged marriage at all, except to keep
>men from sleeping around if they absolutely had to. Why do you think he
>always kept the company of unmarried young men? Not that there's anything
>wrong with that...
>
>turk

I like the one about mothers leaving there children behind when the final
trumpet sounds & not look back. Forget where it is.



--
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Anonymous
August 20, 2005 5:53:53 PM

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On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:09:50 +0100, John Secker wrote:

> Someone said to be called Matthew tells us Jesus had a
> sword.

"Sword" here does not mean "a blade with a sharp edge". It's just a figure
of speech, meaning that his "goal" was to start a rebellion or reformation,
which Jesus, or the "movement" whose figure head he was/is (whether or not
he was a real person), did do.

M.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 8:04:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

First of all: I'm an atheist.

Bible computer games amaze me. One would think that someone who's
religious would stress the issue of personal struggle. How does one
behave in a certain moral manner in a world that doesn't share it, and
certainly doesn't reward it? How does one know that one's decisions are
the "right" ones? That sort of thing.

But the idea of turning the Bible, or religious living, into a computer
game works _against_ this in the most profound ways. With some
exceptions, most games are devoted towards conflict in some form or
another. And not internal conflict, but conflict _with others_. And
one's own avatar in the game-- as general, or soldier, or
magically-enhanced evangelist-- does not have the kind of internal
doubts or conflicts that iluminate religious struggle. One is,
basically, a Guy with a Mission; the mission is clear-cut, the enemies
are easily recognized, and one needn't worry about whether one is doing
the right thing or not.

So the general effort of Christian computer games tends to encourage the
_worst_ aspects of religion. It encourages absolutist belief, where
one's actions are always for Right, and one's opponents are always
Wrong. It dismisses or ignores the actual _spiritual_ aspects of
religion, in favor of seeing the world as a simple conflict of Good
versus Evil.

Let me put it this way. You can have Jesus as a human being, conflicted,
terrified of his fate. Or, you can have Jesus as Rambo, storming in to
lay waste without any doubts or worries. The former is a challenge to
one's morals, values, and empathy, and it _can_ be met with the love of
mankind that that Jesus preached; that's what makes _The Last Temptation
of Christ_ one of the few truly religious films ever made. The latter is
a juvenile, ignorant, thuggish comic book, encouraging bloodlust,
contempt for others, fanaticism, and violence.

Video games aren't exactly well-suited for the former. (And no, I don't
think video games cause real-world violence.) So these Christian games
basically become variants of existing games, with the graphics changed
and "spiritual strength" labels are slapped over the "magic power"
indicators. They're pathetic in so many ways: they're pathetic because
of their lack of originality and imagination, and they're pathetic in
that they cannot be genuinely religious.

More often than not, they're a rotten attempt to make a fast buck from
gullible Christian parents.
August 20, 2005 9:48:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "MP" <markparrish@mindspring.com>, Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:02:15 GMT,
Anno Domini:

>"turk" wrote:
>
>> Actually, metaphorically (Jesus) did carry a sword. He was pretty up
>> front about it. He said so in Matthew 10:34, "Do not suppose that I have
>> come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a
>> sword.", which is directly followed by some anti-family rant in Matt:
>> 35-37... "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter
>> against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw- a man's
>> enemies will be the members of his own household." Not sure where
>> everybody got the idea that Jesus was pro-family with this stuff...
>
>turk, I think that - like you said - Jesus metaphorically meant when he said
>(or Matthew or whomever wrote it all down): "I did not come to bring peace,
>but a sword.", and then the Man against father, etc.stuff. could be compared
>to not-so-new psychology-speak called "co-dependence".
>
>That Jesus was saying to people; to think for yourselves, and not be an
>unhappy co-habitant causing or contributing to an unhealthy family dynamic.
>For example, if the father was a shepherd, and if the son was not happy
>following in his father's path of work then the son should venture forth
>(and be allowed to do so without hand-wringing and grief trips), and find
>one's own bliss and calling - but then again - don't abandon those family
>members who are in need.
>
>My 2 cents, and I'm not an biblical expert whatsoever. However - this
>passage really spoke to me at a time when I needed to make decision to find
>my own path - and without turning my back on those I love - my family.
>
>Back to regular fun programming: madness and mayhem! :-)
>
>Mark

Nice take on that passage Mark, more power to ya mate. ;-)

It talks about a lot of other things as well - the flamewars you see every
day about religion on Usenet are one example symptomatic of that, as is the
daily news. I'm pretty sure that most importantly it talks about how the
Christian will no longer be of this world, though still having to live in it
& be a part of it. That he would call to himself (through his Holy Spirit)
whom He chooses, but not all. It's the 'paradox' of predestination & free
will, 2 sides of the same coin, so not really a paradox from an _eternal_
pov, just not something we can fully grasp in this fallen, temporal
universe/life. Faith takes care of the rest. At any rate, Jesus is talking
about the time between his 1st & 2nd comings.

Personally, I blame Adam & Eve & my parents. >;-)

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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Anonymous
August 20, 2005 10:59:28 PM

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Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
qdkag19pvlc5oggo1ep2asm8ro7n9j87gu@4ax.com
> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Fri, 19 Aug
> 2005 11:25:47 +1000, Anno Domini:
>
>> Quoth The Raven: Highlander <Highlander> in
>> pIidnTjfronNhJjeRVn-pA@comcast.com
>>> this Bible computer / video game is for Personal Computers and the
>>> Xbox videogame console
>>> (looks like Playstation2 is being excluded)
>>
>> because ps2 is of the devil, looks like a game where we can commit
>> lots of sins before the great flood washes us away. I wonder what
>> possibilities for immorality this game posses?
>
> Mate, w/o getting into the whole OT religion bullshit thing YET
> AGAIN, even as a Christian, I'll not touch it with a 10' pole if the
> gameplay is shite. It would be like the hypocrisy of watching a porno
> because 'it has a good storyline' in reverse, lol. >;-)
>
> However, I was just thinking the other day about how many games there
> are out there ('A' titles I'm talking about, puzzle/abstract games
> aside), where you don't kill anyone (or any thing), & where pretty
> much noone dies. Last one I could think of was TLJ, but I think there
> was still some 'incidental' death in that as well. Or ATITD the
> mmorpg. That's it. I'm out.
>
> Is this what we've come to in 'adult' entertainment? Everything has
> to have death to entertain? I enter into evidence games like GTA,
> Hitman & The Suffering which are probably the pinnacle of gratuitous
> violence for the Beavis & Butthead generation (with regard to topic
> material, gameplay merits aside). Happy to discuss like adults, which
> I know some of us are. :) 

I am going to go with an analogy that the availability of prostitutes
reduces the rates of rape and other sexual assault on women, the same
way violent video games keeps the violent tendencies of the
psychopathical worn out on the computer.

but then imo the bible only undoes this and make righteous rapists and
murderers set loose on the unsuspecting world because they believe god
will forgive them regardless of what they do.


--
A clean house is a sign of a misspent life.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 12:45:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Ws2dneCDj8phbZjeRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124456572.474066.129410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> But will it be as cool as the BIBLEMAN video game?!
>>
>> http://www.bibleman.com/bibleman/home.jsp
>
> Dare to dream...
>
> turk
> --

"For the past decade, "The Bibleman Adventure" video series has thrilled
millions and set the standard for action packed family home entertainment. "

I doubt you can compete with that.
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 1:34:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Brian Siano" <bsiano@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:4wINe.356$IG2.0@trndny01...
<snip>
> Video games aren't exactly well-suited for the former. (And no, I don't
> think video games cause real-world violence.) So these Christian games
> basically become variants of existing games, with the graphics changed and
> "spiritual strength" labels are slapped over the "magic power" indicators.
> They're pathetic in so many ways: they're pathetic because of their lack
> of originality and imagination, and they're pathetic in that they cannot
> be genuinely religious.
>
> More often than not, they're a rotten attempt to make a fast buck from
> gullible Christian parents.
>
>
That was a really good post.
But it's going to get argued to the death by fanatical Christians using
arguments wreaking of absolutism and reality=Christianity thinking that
you've talked about,
which ends up proving your points instead of refuting it.
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 2:22:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

Arian typed:

Greetings! :) 

>> I liked _The Neverhood_, and that was
>> apparently Bible-based. Sort of.
>
> Very vaguely.

I saw a Neverhood for $50 (about US$35) at auction recently,
but not mint condition. On my list, yes. ;) 

Where did you manage to find one?- did you get one when new
and therefore in greater supply?

Nice to see you here, too. ;)  Does that mean you happen to be
playing an adventure? :)  (Or an RPG? - I assume not an action
or strategy ;) 


--
};> Matt v3.2 <:{

<random sig>
This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 2:22:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

mec-devil wrote:

> Arian typed:
>
> Greetings! :) 
>
>>> I liked _The Neverhood_, and that was
>>> apparently Bible-based. Sort of.
>>
>>
>> Very vaguely.
>
>
> I saw a Neverhood for $50 (about US$35) at auction recently,
> but not mint condition. On my list, yes. ;) 
>
> Where did you manage to find one?- did you get one when new
> and therefore in greater supply?

I got mine years ago, and it's the most pirated game I own in that I've
made maybe 5-6 copies and distributed them to friends over the years.
Copied the soundtrack and gave it to a local radio station too, and
every now and then I hear one of the tracks in the background during
"goofy traffic reports" or suchlike.

Uusually I'd feel bad about that kind of thing, but the game is SO much
fun and SO hard to find, I just can't resist. A great game to play
through with a lady friend, too, curiously enough.

- Ron ^*^
August 21, 2005 2:43:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com>, Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:53:53
+0200, Anno Domini:

>On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:09:50 +0100, John Secker wrote:
>
>> Someone said to be called Matthew tells us Jesus had a
>> sword.
>
>"Sword" here does not mean "a blade with a sharp edge". It's just a figure
>of speech, meaning that his "goal" was to start a rebellion or reformation,
>which Jesus, or the "movement" whose figure head he was/is (whether or not
>he was a real person), did do.
>
>M.

That Jesus lived, died & had most/all of the events concerning his life
actually happen is a matter of historical fact - anyone saying otherwise is
as big a fool as the man who believes that all the news & writings this
century, last century & for all time are one huge Big Brother 1984
conspiracy, including man walking on the moon :) 

That Jesus was who he said he was, that he performed the miracles that so
many witnessed he did, that he was seen alive after his death, those were
written by *historians* at the time & not just followers - their *meanings*
are a matter of Faith, not a matter of fact.

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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August 21, 2005 2:45:58 AM

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Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Sat, 20 Aug 2005
18:59:28 +1000, Anno Domini:

>I am going to go with an analogy that the availability of prostitutes
>reduces the rates of rape and other sexual assault on women, the same
>way violent video games keeps the violent tendencies of the
>psychopathical worn out on the computer.

I never said all the killing in games is causing crime or violence in
society. All I said was that it's a concern that we seem to feed on it. Keep
up pls.

>but then imo the bible only undoes this and make righteous rapists and
>murderers set loose on the unsuspecting world because they believe god
>will forgive them regardless of what they do.

I would not know where to being to dignify that shite with an answer
(because it's such an obvious troll or it's just ignorant on so many levels
it's beyond absurd)...so I won't :) 

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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Anonymous
August 21, 2005 3:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
nb9eg11vt80ulusngjt5a2lhbr29vdmnvm@4ax.com
> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Sat, 20 Aug
> 2005 18:59:28 +1000, Anno Domini:
>
>> I am going to go with an analogy that the availability of prostitutes
>> reduces the rates of rape and other sexual assault on women, the same
>> way violent video games keeps the violent tendencies of the
>> psychopathical worn out on the computer.
>
> I never said all the killing in games is causing crime or violence in
> society. All I said was that it's a concern that we seem to feed on
> it. Keep up pls.
>
>> but then imo the bible only undoes this and make righteous rapists
>> and murderers set loose on the unsuspecting world because they
>> believe god will forgive them regardless of what they do.
>
> I would not know where to being to dignify that shite with an answer
> (because it's such an obvious troll or it's just ignorant on so many
> levels it's beyond absurd)...so I won't :) 

oh ye of narrow mind...

--
Even after all these years, mantis' prayer not granted

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
August 21, 2005 10:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Sat, 20 Aug 2005
23:10:58 +1000, Anno Domini:

>Quoth The Raven: Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> in
>nb9eg11vt80ulusngjt5a2lhbr29vdmnvm@4ax.com
>> Thus spake "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au>, Sat, 20 Aug
>> 2005 18:59:28 +1000, Anno Domini:
>>
>>> I am going to go with an analogy that the availability of prostitutes
>>> reduces the rates of rape and other sexual assault on women, the same
>>> way violent video games keeps the violent tendencies of the
>>> psychopathical worn out on the computer.
>>
>> I never said all the killing in games is causing crime or violence in
>> society. All I said was that it's a concern that we seem to feed on
>> it. Keep up pls.
>>
>>> but then imo the bible only undoes this and make righteous rapists
>>> and murderers set loose on the unsuspecting world because they
>>> believe god will forgive them regardless of what they do.
>>
>> I would not know where to being to dignify that shite with an answer
>> (because it's such an obvious troll or it's just ignorant on so many
>> levels it's beyond absurd)...so I won't :) 
>
>oh ye of narrow mind...

Ok, but you started this Highlandish ;-p

The Bible obviously is not to blame for what crazy or evil ppl do in their
craziness or evil...& they're hardly to be believed when they say 'God told
me to commit mass murder'. You see, Christians DO believe in certain
absolutes. There are very simple litmus tests to tell whether a person is
acting on divine inspiration, or just thinks he is, or is just fooling
everyone else into believing he is. You don't need a foolproof lie detector
either :) 
Should we blame the Koran & the Communist Manifesto as well by this
reasoning?
Otoh, God is quite at liberty to wipe out entire nations, or even mankind if
He so pleases (as he has done!) - it's axiomatic. But that's another can of
worms ;-)

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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Anonymous
August 21, 2005 1:45:12 PM

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Quoth The Raven: Brian Siano <bsiano@bellatlantic.net> in
4wINe.356$IG2.0@trndny01
> More often than not, they're a rotten attempt to make a fast buck from
> gullible Christian parents.

yeah, these game makers know only enough about xtianity to exploit
xtians, but they still fail to instil major guilt in the avatar to make
him throw ashes on his head after every victory

--
"I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it." - Groucho Marx
(1895-1977)

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 6:36:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:

>You see, Christians DO believe in certain
>absolutes.

Name two (related to the physical world e.g. NOT "gods love is
infinite" or other totally vacuous statement).

>There are very simple litmus tests to tell whether a person is
>acting on divine inspiration, or just thinks he is, or is just fooling
>everyone else into believing he is.

Such as?
August 21, 2005 7:28:20 PM

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"Nostromo" <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
news:1r8eg1pvpbf887tb8j95v2rj1och1jtfp8@4ax.com...
> Thus spake Michael Vondung <mvondung@gmail.com>, Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:53:53
> +0200, Anno Domini:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:09:50 +0100, John Secker wrote:
>>
>>> Someone said to be called Matthew tells us Jesus had a
>>> sword.
>>
>>"Sword" here does not mean "a blade with a sharp edge". It's just a figure
>>of speech, meaning that his "goal" was to start a rebellion or
>>reformation,
>>which Jesus, or the "movement" whose figure head he was/is (whether or not
>>he was a real person), did do.
>>
>>M.
>
> That Jesus lived, died & had most/all of the events concerning his life
> actually happen is a matter of historical fact - anyone saying otherwise
> is
> as big a fool as the man who believes that all the news & writings this
> century, last century & for all time are one huge Big Brother 1984
> conspiracy, including man walking on the moon :) 

Care to actually give any of these "historical facts" that prove Jesus
existed? No one who was a contemporary to Jesus ever mentione him or his
miracles. Don't you find that odd for someone so supposedly influential who
made the planet stop on it's axis, zombies to invade a town, or any other
very visable miracles that there is no historical mention of him or the
miracles in his own time? Even the Gospels are written decades after his
supposed death/resurrection. It's nothing but hearsay.

Really, Jesus followed the pattern of other invented deities/prophets with
the whole "born of a virgin", resurrection, etc. See Mithra, Buddha,
Confusius, even Julius Caesar for other examples. Fact is, there isn't a
single shred of evidence worthy of consideration when it comes to Jesus.
And please don't make me waste time with exposing the fatal flaws in
Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny or any of the other supposed Jesus mentions. Also,
no using the Bible to prove what is said about Jesus in the Bible. That's
circular logic. That's like using Action Comics to prove Superman exists.

turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 10:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Brian Siano <bsiano@bellatlantic.net> Spake Unto All:

>But the conventions of computer games, and the desire to attract an
>audience, usually winds up altering the message. It's as though someone
>decided, "Okay, these action thrillers with Jean Claude van Damme are
>pretty popular. But maybe if we make him a Christian, and he's fighting
>for righteousness..." Nope. One winds up with an action movie with some
>odd bits in it... but lots of explosions.

You speak as if explosions & butt-kicking for goodness is somehow
opposed to christian values.
Anonymous
August 22, 2005 6:57:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly Brian Siano <bsiano@bellatlantic.net> Spake Unto All:
>
>
>>But the conventions of computer games, and the desire to attract an
>>audience, usually winds up altering the message. It's as though someone
>>decided, "Okay, these action thrillers with Jean Claude van Damme are
>>pretty popular. But maybe if we make him a Christian, and he's fighting
>>for righteousness..." Nope. One winds up with an action movie with some
>>odd bits in it... but lots of explosions.
>
>
> You speak as if explosions & butt-kicking for goodness is somehow
> opposed to christian values.

It's not that explosions and butt-kicking is opposed to Christian (or
religious) values. It's that issues of faith, moral, or ethics are best
examined in _drama_-- and explosions, butt-kicking, and all the rest
doesn't make for terribly good drama.

There are great dramas that do have a lot of terrific large-scale
action, like _Lawrence of Arabia_. But usually, action movies are about
the action.
August 22, 2005 11:27:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Brian Siano <bsiano@bellatlantic.net>, Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:52:34
GMT, Anno Domini:

>(Computer games have a hard time dealing with ethical and moral issues,
>IMHO, but mainly because the game has to _account_ for the choices made
>by the player. So the player rapidly understands what winning the game
>involves, i.e., somewhere, the CPU's tallying points, and by doing
>certain tasks in the right way, you get a result. The development of
>shared-world games may be a means towards ethics in games, since one has
>to deal with others... and the rewards there can actually be, well,
>spiritual.)

I think that's why PS:Torment was such a hit with the older rpg crowd that
could read & actually did so on occasion. It's exploration of good vs evil,
inner struggles, redemption & life & death were very well done. Just not as
popular with the MTV generation as blowing the f#$k out of bad guys,
innocent bystanders, authority figures or bunnies.

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August 22, 2005 11:35:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Sun, 21 Aug
2005 14:36:36 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>You see, Christians DO believe in certain
>>absolutes.
>
>Name two (related to the physical world e.g. NOT "gods love is
>infinite" or other totally vacuous statement).

Ummm...Good & Evil perhaps?

>>There are very simple litmus tests to tell whether a person is
>>acting on divine inspiration, or just thinks he is, or is just fooling
>>everyone else into believing he is.
>
>Such as?

That's for me to know & for you to find out >;-p

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Anonymous
August 22, 2005 11:35:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:

>>>You see, Christians DO believe in certain
>>>absolutes.
>>
>>Name two (related to the physical world e.g. NOT "gods love is
>>infinite" or other totally vacuous statement).
>
>Ummm...Good & Evil perhaps?

I'm sorry, that doesn't parse. Please exemplify.
Anonymous
August 22, 2005 6:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Michael Vondung" <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bmlo8mrob36.7mim4mrn285i.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:09:50 +0100, John Secker wrote:
>
>> Someone said to be called Matthew tells us Jesus had a
>> sword.
>
> "Sword" here does not mean "a blade with a sharp edge". It's just a figure
> of speech, meaning that his "goal" was to start a rebellion or
> reformation,
> which Jesus, or the "movement" whose figure head he was/is (whether or not
> he was a real person), did do.

Shred cheese and make peace.

FSM brings its deliciously good news to all who hunger for it:

http://www.venganza.org/
August 22, 2005 6:23:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Mon, 22 Aug
2005 02:14:18 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>>>You see, Christians DO believe in certain
>>>>absolutes.
>>>
>>>Name two (related to the physical world e.g. NOT "gods love is
>>>infinite" or other totally vacuous statement).
>>
>>Ummm...Good & Evil perhaps?
>
>I'm sorry, that doesn't parse. Please exemplify.
>

I think Heisenberg would have an exception to you looking for absolutes in
the physical world MC >8^D

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Anonymous
August 23, 2005 5:29:28 PM

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Thusly "Fight4Liberty" <Fight4Liberty@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>I've never read Josephus or Pliny, but I did read Tacitus' Annals.

Yeheshua was a common enough name, and Messiases are thirteen to the
dozen - I see no reason to doubt that one of the Messiases was named
Yeheshua and was born somewhere in the region of year 0.

Whether he was the son of God, however, is another matter.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 7:47:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

turk wrote:
> "Nostromo" <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
> news:1r8eg1pvpbf887tb8j95v2rj1och1jtfp8@4ax.com...
> > That Jesus lived, died & had most/all of the events concerning his life
> > actually happen is a matter of historical fact - anyone saying otherwise
> > is
> > as big a fool as the man who believes that all the news & writings this
> > century, last century & for all time are one huge Big Brother 1984
> > conspiracy, including man walking on the moon :) 
>
> Care to actually give any of these "historical facts" that prove Jesus
> existed?

I suspect you merely seek a fight. :) 

We all know what the facts are. I'm afraid I don't draw conclusions
from the ability of people with a religious agenda -- atheists -- to
ignore evidence they don't like.

> No one who was a contemporary to Jesus ever mentione him or his
> miracles.

The evidence is otherwise.

> Don't you find that odd for someone so supposedly influential who
> made the planet stop on it's axis, zombies to invade a town, or any other
> very visable miracles that there is no historical mention of him or the
> miracles in his own time?

You mean, outside the gospels? Jesus was not an influential figure in
his own day.

> Even the Gospels are written decades after his
> supposed death/resurrection.

By eyewitnesses, and those they briefed to write for them.

> It's nothing but hearsay.

The evidence is otherwise.

> Really, Jesus followed the pattern of other invented deities/prophets with
> the whole "born of a virgin", resurrection, etc. See Mithra, Buddha,
> Confusius, even Julius Caesar for other examples.

I see that you are repeating stuff from atheist websites. Please
assess this stuff before doing this, although I'm sure you do so in
good faith. http://www.ihatewomblesdiediedie.com is not a reliable
source of information on Wombles! Nor are atheist websites on
Christianity, as they tend to eagerly retail malicious hearsay as fact.

In this case, for instance, you might consider that Mithras was born
from a ROCK!

> Fact is, there isn't a single shred of evidence worthy of
> consideration when it comes to Jesus.

The professional historians do not agree with you, nor most normal
people. Why are you so certain? After all, you have no special
training in history.

I greatly fear that you have merely spent too long reading atheist
literature. It rots the mind, you know, to spend too much time with a
hate-group.

> And please don't make me waste time with exposing the fatal flaws in
> Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny or any of the other supposed Jesus mentions.

It would seem that you have something of a closed mind. Does it not
bother you that you're sitting with a tiny minority of people with a
very strong religious position which consists mainly of aspersing
others? (It would me!)

Furthermore, most atheists are quite unable to express their
religious-philosophical view: the one they live their lives by. All
they can usually do is tell us why they don't believe in Christianity.
Sadly we all know most of them are children of religious families who
were brought up to conform to the values of that environment, and,
growing up and learning the values of our culture as a whole, instead
conformed to that. Such people are tediously certain of things which,
on the whole, they know little about.

> Also, no using the Bible to prove what is said about Jesus in the
> Bible. That's circular logic.

That's called prejudice.

> My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
> choking dust of September 11th 2001,

Your religion; or merely that of others? You will appreciate that this
expression of bigotry and hate is disturbing indeed.

Live and let live, I say. But don't take on these daft Jesus-myth
ideas. They're daft, and that's an end of it. Few will bother to
refute them: most people just shake their heads and move on.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:20:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (More info?)

On the 19 Aug 2005, <Highlander> wrote:

<snip>

> In our first tale, Adam is an older man hardened by centuries of dwelling on
> his own sin and the suffering he has brought upon the world. But into his
> world comes a young lieutenant named Orion (the biblical Enoch)

If Orion is Adam's lietenant, does this make Adam the Master of Orion?
;-)

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