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Snare Drum Mic-ing on the side

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Anonymous
September 20, 2004 8:23:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
procedure?
Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?

See12mic
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 9:05:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2004 16:23:39 -0700, see12mic@hotmail.com wrote:

>Are you mic-ing the little venthole?

It's better to keep the mics away from the drummer if possible!
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 3:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<see12mic> wrote:

> I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
> from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
> procedure?

Same as any other micing approach, pick a spot you like.

> Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?

No, I keep the mic a little away from the hole. Sometimes the mic winds
up about halfway down the side of the shell and back from the drum about
8" to a foot, and sometimes the mic is just above the top rim,
horizontal, aimed across the top of the head. Sometimes side micing
works for me and sometimes I do something else.

Just experiment.

--
ha
Related resources
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 3:53:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
>from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
>procedure?
>
-----
Normally I use a SD condenser, placed under the hi-hat pointed at the shell.
More attack - move toward the top. More snare - move toward the bottom. Move
to front/back for hi-hat leakage. Adjust in and out for tone. Play with it
until you get what you're lookin' for. Use low rolloff switch for kick bleed.
Hard rock snare may work better with hyper-cardiod dynamic.

Everything above is for starting only. Where and what you finally wind up with
is sometimes different.




>Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?
>
>See12mic
>
>


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 5:02:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I like this for drummers that use a lot of sidestick.

DM


"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message news:1gkf7fe.rcjnd7oauid1N%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> <see12mic> wrote:
>
> > I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
> > from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
> > procedure?
>
> Same as any other micing approach, pick a spot you like.
>
> > Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?
>
> No, I keep the mic a little away from the hole. Sometimes the mic winds
> up about halfway down the side of the shell and back from the drum about
> 8" to a foot, and sometimes the mic is just above the top rim,
> horizontal, aimed across the top of the head. Sometimes side micing
> works for me and sometimes I do something else.
>
> Just experiment.
>
> --
> ha
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
procedure?>>

I use an AKG C61 with an A51 swivel joint so I can get the mic in between the
snare & the high hat. I usually put the capsule about 6" from the rim, pointing
generally at the rim, sometimes more at the side, sometimes up a little higher
to peek down a bit on the head. All depends on the drummer & the drum.


<<Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?
>>



No.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 10:25:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e508676a.0409201523.35c78749@posting.google.com> see12mic@hotmail.com writes:

> I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
> from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
> procedure?
> Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?

No, just point the mic toward the side of the shell, about six inches
out. It's not crack'n'thunder snare, but it's a nice pleasant sound on
a decent drum hit right.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 11:21:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:05:15 -0400, playon wrote
(in article <o0suk09v19bvj71p4utib0l266rdl3k2gc@4ax.com>):

> On 20 Sep 2004 16:23:39 -0700, see12mic@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Are you mic-ing the little venthole?
>
> It's better to keep the mics away from the drummer if possible!

Hey,

Why not try adding to the conversation instead of sniping. People might get
the impression that you're just a jerk. Know what I mean? :) 

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 11:45:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Are you using the CK28 capsule on the C61?

see12mic

scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote in message news:<20040920234418.06405.00000565@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> << I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
> from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
> procedure?>>
>
> I use an AKG C61 with an A51 swivel joint so I can get the mic in between the
> snare & the high hat. I usually put the capsule about 6" from the rim, pointing
> generally at the rim, sometimes more at the side, sometimes up a little higher
> to peek down a bit on the head. All depends on the drummer & the drum.
>
>
> <<Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?
> >>


>
> No.
>
> Scott Fraser
September 21, 2004 12:06:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah with this drummer of mine, he hits nearly every hit rim-shot, and
shell micing seems to pick that up alot nicer. I use the hypercardiod
md441, as it helps keep the hihat out of the way. If you have one of
those variable phase do-hickies, that may help line it up to the
overheads which, for me, pick up the rest of the snare sound.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 3:17:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2004 16:23:39 -0700, see12mic@hotmail.com wrote:

>I think there was some talk about a technique of mic-ing the snare
>from the side with good results. If anyone has done this, what's the
>procedure?
>Are you mic-ing the little vent hole?
>


Nope. You're just putting a mic in a position near an instrument
where you think it might sound good. If anything, I'd AVOID
spotting on the vent hole. But try it and see.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:37:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Wayne wrote
<Normally I use a SD condenser, placed under the hi-hat pointed at the shell.
More attack - move toward the top. More snare - move toward the bottom. Move
to front/back for hi-hat leakage. Adjust in and out for tone. Play with it
until you get what you're lookin' for. Use low rolloff switch for kick bleed.
Hard rock snare may work better with hyper-cardiod dynamic.

Everything above is for starting only. Where and what you finally wind up with
is sometimes different>

I'm just asking but, what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be? You are
referring to a fig 8 pattern yes? Most snares are quite loud and the thing
behind close micing is to only get one drum sound into each mic right?
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921113719.20060.00002434@mb-m25.aol.com...

> I'm just asking but, what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be? You
are
> referring to a fig 8 pattern yes?

A hypercardiod is not a figure 8.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Raymond wrote:
>
> what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be?

It's easier to put the hat in the null of a hyper.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:37:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <VmY3d.7$xN.1467@news.abs.net>,
Hal Laurent <laurent@charm.net> wrote:
>
>"Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040921113719.20060.00002434@mb-m25.aol.com...
>
>> I'm just asking but, what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be? You
>are
>> referring to a fig 8 pattern yes?
>
>A hypercardiod is not a figure 8.

It is, in fact, about halfway between a cardioid and a figure-8, much the
way that a cardioid is halfway between a figure-8 and an omni.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:47:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< It's not crack'n'thunder snare, but it's a nice pleasant sound on
a decent drum hit right. >>



Exactly. It's usually on jazz drums that I use this approach.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:49:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Are you using the CK28 capsule on the C61? >>



Yes. If it's a bit on the dull side I'll use a 451/CK1 instead.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 8:18:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I'm just asking but, what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be?>>

A tighter pattern, thus less leakage from the rest of the kit.

<< You are
referring to a fig 8 pattern yes?>>

No, hypercardioid is a whole different thing. It's more directional than a
cardioid, picks up less from the sides, but has a little zone of pickup from
the rear. Figure eights have equal (hopefully) pickup patterns front & rear.

<< Most snares are quite loud and the thing
behind close micing is to only get one drum sound into each mic right?
>>



That's the idea, but in practice it's never that well delineated. In reality
everything is in every mic, but each mic gives its intended drum precedence.
Scott Fraser
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 8:19:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I'm just asking but, what would the advantage of a Hyper-cardiod be? You are
>referring to a fig 8 pattern yes? Most snares are quite loud and the thing
>behind close micing is to only get one drum sound into each mic right?
>
>
>
Check this site out please.
http://homerecording.about.com/library/weekly/aa032597....

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 10:37:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"dull side..."

I find this as well. I have a lolli and the CK1 which I use often, but
besides trumpet, I haven't found much use for this cap. Is there a
mod out there which might provide a less dull, less ragged top end for
this capsule?

BTW, the side mic-ing worked out find today, I just used a LD instead
of the small, just a taste thing. It was a perfectly tuned Noble and
Cooley in great shape, it probably would have recorded well with a tin
can/ string front end.

Thanks to all for the info...

see12mic
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 10:39:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i use this when i am recording on limited tracks/preamps. if i'm doing the old
"3 mic drum" thing i'll put a 57 on the side, somewhere between the top and
bottom, moving it until i get the right balance. i keep it pretty close to the
shell of the drum. by itself it sounds ratty but in the mix with a decent
overhead, it's quite snappy and nice.
-justin
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 12:24:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< >Are you mic-ing the little venthole?

It's better to keep the mics away from the drummer if possible! >>




Now THAT's funny!

If you've got more contributions like that, don't let the humor police get in
your way. I read the thread for serious suggestions, but yours made me grin.
Now, back to my bad session.



Kevin M. Kelly
"There needs to be a 12-step program for us gearheads"
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 12:37:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt wrote
>It's easier to put the hat in the null of a hyper.>

OK, I can see from the site that Wayne posted that there is a little nitch
there in the hyper mic but, with the pick-up patern coming from the rear of the
hyper, will this not still yeald signal from the room? Hard, hitting drummers
filling the room with cutting snare?
I realy need to try it for myself to understand and I think I will as I have a
hyper mic...or maybe not, this mic is a $600.00 LDC!!! I don't think I want to
take a chance on anything (such as flying drumsticks) happening to it.
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 3:50:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040922043754.07907.00000863@mb-m24.aol.com> bruwhaha58097238@aol.com writes:

> OK, I can see from the site that Wayne posted that there is a little nitch
> there in the hyper mic but, with the pick-up patern coming from the rear of the
> hyper, will this not still yeald signal from the room? Hard, hitting drummers
> filling the room with cutting snare?

Sure, but there's no mic that will eliminate that. The best you can do
is reduce the pickup in directions other than straight on. 6 dB is
useful. But if you want complete isolation, you won't get that with
any microphone unless you record the drums one at a time in a dead
room. Not very interesting sound, and not very inspiring for the
drummer. You might as well have him trigger samples.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 4:48:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Raymond wrote:
> Kurt wrote
>
>> It's easier to put the hat in the null of a hyper.
>
>
> OK, I can see from the site that Wayne posted that there is a little nitch
> there in the hyper mic but, with the pick-up patern coming from the rear of the
> hyper, will this not still yeald signal from the room? Hard, hitting drummers
> filling the room with cutting snare?

Somewhat (as others have pointed out before,) but hat bleed can be a real problem sometimes and a cardioid doesn't help at all except in one limited position.
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:59:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< OK, I can see from the site that Wayne posted that there is a little nitch
there in the hyper mic but, with the pick-up patern coming from the rear of the
hyper, will this not still yeald signal from the room? >>

Yes, but the rear lobe is considerably smaller & more attenuated than the
front. There are two nulls just off center rear. Point one of those at the high
hat.

<<Hard, hitting drummers
filling the room with cutting snare?>>

Look, everything in the entire kit is in every drum mic. You don't get real
individual nothing-else-but-this-drum separation when multi-miking a kit. What
you get is enough predominance of the intended drum that you can mix them
effectively.

<<I realy need to try it for myself to understand and I think I will as I have
a
hyper mic...or maybe not, this mic is a $600.00 LDC!!! I don't think I want to
take a chance on anything (such as flying drumsticks) happening to it.>>

Just do it. I rarely have mics worth less than $600 on drums. Then again, I'm
working mainly with jazz drummers who know how to control their muscle
responses.



Scott Fraser
September 23, 2004 12:45:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 22 Sep 2004 08:37:54 GMT, bruwhaha58097238@aol.com (Raymond) wrote:

>Kurt wrote
>>It's easier to put the hat in the null of a hyper.>
>
>OK, I can see from the site that Wayne posted that there is a little nitch
>there in the hyper mic but, with the pick-up patern coming from the rear of the
>hyper, will this not still yeald signal from the room? Hard, hitting drummers
>filling the room with cutting snare?

Don't rely completely on the directivity sketches at that site - they
convey the general idea quite well, but a real hyper-cardioid mic
won't stay right on 0dB all the way over +/-90 degrees like the sketch
implies. Same "approximations" apply to other parts of that curve, and
other curves.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 12:52:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <2re37lF18thedU1@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:

> Somewhat (as others have pointed out before,) but hat bleed can be a real
> problem sometimes and a cardioid doesn't help at all except in one limited
> position.

If it's a problem, that means you have one or both of these problems:

- The drummer is playing the hi-hat too loud
- The snare mic is too close to the hi-hat

I suspect that the problem with "hat bleed" is that you can't turn it
down enough. Get the mic away from it or get a quieter cymbal. Simple
as that.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 4:52:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message news:znr1095892534k@trad...
:
: In article <2re37lF18thedU1@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:
:
: > Somewhat (as others have pointed out before,) but hat bleed can be a real
: > problem sometimes and a cardioid doesn't help at all except in one limited
: > position.
:
: If it's a problem, that means you have one or both of these problems:
:
: - The drummer is playing the hi-hat too loud
: - The snare mic is too close to the hi-hat
:
: I suspect that the problem with "hat bleed" is that you can't turn it
: down enough. Get the mic away from it or get a quieter cymbal. Simple
: as that.

Or perhaps show the drummer how much better it sounds when he uses the tip of the stick on the
hat during the song gather than bashing it with the shoulder of the stick. Let him save the
shoulder for the live gigs.

Phil Abbate
:
:
:
: --
: I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
: However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
: lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
: you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
: and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:33:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

That's an awful idea. I hope you don't do this for a living. I'd prefer
eating Town House Crackers and watching Clifford the Big Red Dog while
Mic-ing on the Snare, also you should use the drum horn.

Regards,
Chris M. Raymond
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:33:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

That's an awful idea. I hope you don't do this for a living. I'd prefer
eating Town House Crackers and watching Clifford the Big Red Dog while
Mic-ing on the Snare, also you should use the drum horn.

Regards,
Chris M. Raymond
!