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Just what does Steam Provide? What does it prevent?

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August 23, 2005 10:15:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

For as much as I loved the original Half Life (series) and for as much as I
looked forward to Half Life 2 I have not bought it because of all the noise
about Steam.

Those who are into UBI games (Silent Hunter III, etc) will have heard
similar noise about an anti piracy measure called "StarForce". Unlike HL2 I
have bought Silent Hunter III and several other "Starforce Protected" games
that now sit happily on my hard drive.

The reason why I have bought Starforce protected games but not Steam
protected games is that Starforce does not require an online connection and
does not intigrate itself into the operation of the game itself or the game
update process. Updates for Starforce protected games can be downloaded like
any other patch for any other game and stored on my own CDs.

If UBI and StarForce went out of business and off-line today I could still
install, update and play the latest version of Silent Hunter III on a
freshly formatted hard drive.

As I understand it this is impossible with Steam. As I understand it, Half
Life 2 as purchased on the CD/DVD is NOT a compleat playable game. "Some"
files necessary for running the game are kept on Steam servers and arranged
in such a way as to prevent the user from downloading and storing them for
later use on a future install. Neither is it possible to download and store
game updates.

If Steam went out of business and off-line today I could NOT install, update
and play the latest version of Half Life 2 on a freshly formatted hard
drive.

Is my understanding of Steam correct?

I have heard folks say that if Steam did indeed go bust they would, just
before turning out the lights, they would release a fix that would allow
Steam-free install, update and play. Maybe but, if Steam was indeed going
broke, where would the money come from to develop such a fix? What would the
development of such a fix say to investors? Grab your cash and run?

More about : steam provide prevent

Anonymous
August 24, 2005 4:54:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

Hank the Rapper wrote:

> It isn't important enough to archive his posts for the prosperity
> of others.

first nobody reads past archived posts
the usenet is a medium of the moment
last weeks threads are gone and nobody will ever go back
but the most important is i do want to reply individually

i will reply to every single pc gamers that comes to this
group and wants to discuss steam
and i'll reply to him directly!
i don't need to "record" my answers like an answering
machine cause if someone directly asks me a question i
will reply to him directly!
which was something you didn't do
Joe asked your opinion and you didn't answer cause you
are too lazy and you basically know you will never add
anything to the important issues of steam

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 4:56:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

Joe wrote:

<snip>

your post is very good and you are totally correct
thank you so much for writing and sharing this with us

i too don't like starforce but i do own many games with
it and i will still buy starforce copy protected games
although i would like to see starforce out of pc games
and for that i've been fighting against piracy
the only way to make starforce leave is to fight against
piracy cause its piracy the only one to blame for it
but until piracy is reduced in pc games i don't feel we
can ask publishers to stop using it
so when it comes to starforce the thing to do is fight
against piracy so in the future we will stop having to
use it

as for steam like you i will never accept it and i do
agree with every single word you wrote
with steam there is no "but" like in starforce
with steam it's a clear NO!
steam NO WAY! period

now about your question in the subject line
what does steam provide?
personally nothing
all the features steam have don't interest me and i
can find them available in individual applications
multiplayer, anti-cheats, auto-patching and online
delivery are all things already available elsewhere
as for...
what does steam prevent?
that is clearly the main issue
probably the main function of steam is prevent things
which is UNBELIVABLE! steam as a system TAKES away
from you more than what it adds, so i would say its
main purpose is to PREVENT
.. steam prevents us from buying pc games if we don't
have a credit card
.. steam prevents us from buying pc games if we don't
have a net connection
.. steam prevents us from playing pc games if we don't
have a net connection
.. steam prevents us from playing pc games if we don't
have a broadband connection
.. steam prevents us from playing pc games if we don't
have a reliable net connection
.. steam prevents us from patching pc games if we don't
do it directly connecting to the net
.. steam prevents us from patching pc games if we don't
have a broadband connection
.. steam prevents us from archiving and personally storing
game patches
.. steam prevents us from having games in a manufactured
cd/dvd
.. steam prevents us from having games in a box package
.. steam prevents us from reselling pc games
.. steam prevents us from playing pc games ANONYMOUSLY
.. steam prevents us from playing pc games when we choose
cause you are always dependant on steam authentication
.. steam prevents us from playing the version we want
cause its steam that chooses what and when to patch
.. steam prevents us from having a proper pure retail box
package version of valve games cause it infects them
.. steam prevents us from having freedom to use the game
he bought freely
.. steam prevents us from choosing the way we want to buy
play and patch pc games
basically steam prevents almost everything in pc games

i would say steam prevents everything in pc games with
the exceptions of:
.. giving money to valve
.. playing the game when valve wants
.. with the exception of buying and playing everything
else has to be controled by valve

Joe thank you very much for your testimony in this group
its pc gamers like you that give us all hope we can
defend our rights and make the pc game market a free
one like it has been for the past decade
long live pc games STEAM FREE!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Related resources
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:33:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

OldDog wrote:

<snip>

didn't you read Joe's post!
he didn't ask about the game
he ask about the delivery system!
don't you know the difference?
the issue is not half-life 2 but steam!
obviously you being pro steam fanatic you are not comfortable
discussing it and you want to move along
you want to run away from the discussion cause you have ZERO
to add but no sir, we will not pretend steam is all right and
we will not let valve have a "walk in the park" monopolizing
the pc game market and abusing us all pc gamers

as for your recommendation of using cracks
we pay for a game to run out of the box! not to have to use
illegal code just to be able to play with something we payed
for! we PAY so we have RIGHTS and demand respect!

ps: please don't try following up with your old excuses to
cover up valve's wrong doings cause i'm sick of them

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:25:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> once tried to test me with:

> For as much as I loved the original Half Life (series) and for as much
> as I looked forward to Half Life 2 I have not bought it because of all
> the noise about Steam.

This is just what we need, another Steam thread!! WHOOOPIE!!!


--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 7:40:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:adNOe.13192$Ep.9679@lakeread02...
> For as much as I loved the original Half Life (series) and for as much as
> I looked forward to Half Life 2 I have not bought it because of all the
> noise about Steam.
>
> Those who are into UBI games (Silent Hunter III, etc) will have heard
> similar noise about an anti piracy measure called "StarForce". Unlike HL2
> I have bought Silent Hunter III and several other "Starforce Protected"
> games that now sit happily on my hard drive.

why is this so complicated?


its simple


you download stuff, fast and with no trip to the store

and you get updated free content and expansions delivered to your PC fast

not hard to understand why so many love it
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 10:43:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

if we didnt have starforce becuz piracy was gone then that would be no
fun cuz we need piracy cuz othwize wed have to pay for evrything and
that costs lots of money and we dont always have lots of money but do
like to play the newist games so fight for piracy cuz with it we can
play the newest pc games wich are almost as good as the grate console
games so i think steam is cool and so is starforce cuz it meens that
piracy is strong and will keep going so maybee pc games should be
stopped so we can just play console games becuz pc games are not good
compaird to the great console games and i want console games to be
strong and we shuld all buy lots of console games and support the
console game develupers becuase they make fun games and better then pc
games with starforce but if steam can change that and make us all play
pc games then that would be good too that is what i keep preeching
about cuz we need to fight and stay together and win the fight aginst
games that dont have steam and are not console games

STEAM roolz!!!
console games RULE to!!!
SayNoToGamesWithoutSteamUnlessTheyAreConsoleGamesThenTheyAreCool!!!
AlsoGamesShouldBeOn3.5Disks
andInCoolBoxesNotAnnoyingCDsAndDVDsandInternet!!!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 11:16:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:adNOe.13192$Ep.9679@lakeread02...
<snip>
> If Steam went out of business and off-line today I could NOT install,
> update and play the latest version of Half Life 2 on a freshly formatted
> hard drive.
>
> Is my understanding of Steam correct?
>
> I have heard folks say that if Steam did indeed go bust they would, just
> before turning out the lights, they would release a fix that would allow
> Steam-free install, update and play. Maybe but, if Steam was indeed going
> broke, where would the money come from to develop such a fix? What would
> the development of such a fix say to investors? Grab your cash and run?
>

Didn't some people in here claim that HL2 was cracked 2 days after its
release. If so, then 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, .... or 200 years from now
when Valve is no more, then d/l the crack.

Getting back to reality, get HL2, enjoy it for a few months, and then move
on to the next big shooter down the road. Quake 4, Call of Duty 2,
BattleField 3, ...
August 24, 2005 3:24:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:15:22 -0400, "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net>
wrote:

>The reason why I have bought Starforce protected games but not Steam
>protected games is that Starforce does not require an online connection and
>does not intigrate itself into the operation of the game itself or the game
>update process. Updates for Starforce protected games can be downloaded like
>any other patch for any other game and stored on my own CDs.

I truly despise CD copy protections because at worst, I have to keep
switching CDs in drive, everytime I want to play a certain game and at
best, I have to download hacks that often go obsolete when a new patch
comes out and/or very often interfere with the multiplayer aspects.

In contrast, running HL2 is quite simple, as I just need to click the
HL2 desktop icon and the game starts immediately. Even if my broadband
internet connection is down, the game starts in offline mode, which is
unlike CD proectection checks, where there are no offical fallback
methods in case the CD gets missing or damaged.

Several years from now, when Valve has bankrupted, Tom Cruise is
president of United States and Regis Phelbin governs the galactic
empire as a Sith Lord and if I am still alive, I'll download a hack to
make offline mode permanent.

>As I understand it this is impossible with Steam. As I understand it, Half
>Life 2 as purchased on the CD/DVD is NOT a compleat playable game. "Some"
>files necessary for running the game are kept on Steam servers and arranged
>in such a way as to prevent the user from downloading and storing them for
>later use on a future install. Neither is it possible to download and store
>game updates.

The retail version of HL2 contains files with very strong encryption.
After installation, the files are first decrypted via Steam servers.

However once decrypted and authenticated, you can make the backup of
the entire game (patched and updated) on a DVD and then restore it on
any hard disk or another PC. Steam gives that option. You can also
simply copy the entire directory. Once moved to a new hard disk or
directory, the offline mode may not work, until you have at least
connected once with the Steam servers. This feature can easily be
exploited to have multiple copies of the same game running on
different PCs in offline mode. The folks at Valve are willing to take
that hit.

By the way to do my part in not prolonging this thread, I won't
respond further.

My 2¢
--
Noman
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 4:10:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>For as much as I loved the original Half Life (series) and for as much
>>as I looked forward to Half Life 2 I have not bought it because of all
>>the noise about Steam.
>
>
> This is just what we need, another Steam thread!! WHOOOPIE!!!
>
>

And Joe spent such a long time composing it too.

I wonder if people dont go to the cinema in case the movie company goes
bust in 20 years?

The chance of me personally wanting to replay HL2 in 5 years is remote
to say the least. And, regardless, there WILL be a hack to enable it to
run without Steam then. You can count on it. Terry is writing one
apparently with his 25 years of SW knowledge.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:15:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

riku wrote:

> Did you buy many CircuitCity DIVX movies?

Not once, straw man.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:41:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

steamKILLER wrote:

> first nobody reads past archived posts
> the usenet is a medium of the moment
> last weeks threads are gone and nobody will ever go back
> but the most important is i do want to reply individually

I do. When I want to look up information that I know have been discussed
recently rather than starting another thread. I did it when I needed to buy
a new monitor and wanted to know if LCD were better for gaming. I did when I
decided I wanted to give Painkiller a try.

> i will reply to every single pc gamers that comes to this
> group and wants to discuss steam
> and i'll reply to him directly!
> i don't need to "record" my answers like an answering
> machine cause if someone directly asks me a question i
> will reply to him directly!
> which was something you didn't do
> Joe asked your opinion and you didn't answer cause you
> are too lazy and you basically know you will never add
> anything to the important issues of steam

I did give him the answer. I gave him a link with a bunch of threads about
discussions of steam. I'm sure he's a competent person and can figure that
out.
August 24, 2005 8:48:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3n2vd6F19jcuoU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Knight37 wrote:
>> "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>
>>>For as much as I loved the original Half Life (series) and for as much
>>>as I looked forward to Half Life 2 I have not bought it because of all
>>>the noise about Steam.
>>
>>
>> This is just what we need, another Steam thread!! WHOOOPIE!!!
>>
>>
>
> And Joe spent such a long time composing it too.

Not nearly so long as it seems to be taking to get an answer to my simple
question.

>
> I wonder if people dont go to the cinema in case the movie company goes
> bust in 20 years?

Perhaps you should have spent a little more time composing your analogy
because it is faulty beyond belief.

When people go to the cinema they go with the expectation of seeing a
performance then walking out of the cinema with nothing but the memory of
what they have seen. It is a transacton somewhat different from what takes
place when people buy computer programs.

In addition, if Hollywood slid into the sea taking with it every actor and
director in the nation; every DVD and VHS of the movies already made by the
then defunct studios and dead actors would still play as well the day after
the earthquake as they did the day before.

>
> The chance of me personally wanting to replay HL2 in 5 years is remote to
> say the least. And, regardless, there WILL be a hack to enable it to run
> without Steam then. You can count on it. Terry is writing one apparently
> with his 25 years of SW knowledge.

The chance of me personally knowing or caring what you personally do or do
not want to play in 5 years is even more remote. I still play "Half Life" on
occasion. "Opposing Force" and "Blue Shift" as well along with Team Fortress
and Counter Strike. I enjoy "Thief" (series). "Enemy Engaged" (series),
"Falcon 4" and others of similar age. For me a good game is a good game and
I play it when I want, for as long as I want, as often as I want. I would
hope that you do the same.

There are those who's ego is so large and adherence to fasion so ingrained
that they really believe their personal tastes set some kind of "Gold
Standard" to which lessor people should aspire and by which other people are
to be measured. I would hope you are not one of these but if you are
perhaps you can explain to me why you believe your personal tastes and
preferences are inherently superior to mine.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:08:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:10:46 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I wonder if people dont go to the cinema in case the movie company goes
>bust in 20 years?

They can still watch the movie they bought in 5 years, even if the
movie company folded. Unless, of course, the movie they bought uses
some braindead online authentication system like Steam does.

>The chance of me personally wanting to replay HL2 in 5 years is remote
>to say the least.

Yes we know, just like you never listen to old music or watch old
movies. Many people don't think like you, that's why things like MAME,
WinUAE, ZSNES, DOSBox, Namco/Capcom compilations, The Underdogs
abandonware site, console backwards compatibility etc. are so popular
among people who are not as superficial as you.

Also, didn't you say in another thread you believe that in coming
years more and more PC games will be digitally delivered and require
online authentication? Does this mean you think Half-life 2 will be
the only such game you will buy in the coming 5 years?

Walter is playing dumb again. We have been through this countless of
times:

We are not discussing about Half-life 2 only, but all single-player
games that will require online validation to install and play. If in
five years you have 50 such ganes you might want to replay, it means
having to hunt down 50 cracks for them (possibly containing viruses,
trojans etc.).

>And, regardless, there WILL be a hack to enable it to
>run without Steam then. You can count on it.

How about the other 49 digitally delivered games, then?
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:12:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:24:15 -0700, noman <no_m_an@zzzyahoo.yycom>
wrote:

>Several years from now, when Valve has bankrupted, Tom Cruise is
>president of United States and Regis Phelbin governs the galactic
>empire as a Sith Lord and if I am still alive, I'll download a hack to
>make offline mode permanent.

You seem to imply that a two-hit-wonder known as Valve can't fold. How
come such companies like Origin, Microprose, Looking Glass Studios,
Westwood, Acclaim, Sierra etc. folded, then?

>However once decrypted and authenticated, you can make the backup of
>the entire game (patched and updated) on a DVD and then restore it on
>any hard disk or another PC. Steam gives that option. You can also
>simply copy the entire directory. Once moved to a new hard disk or
>directory, the offline mode may not work, until you have at least
>connected once with the Steam servers. This feature can easily be
>exploited to have multiple copies of the same game running on
>different PCs in offline mode. The folks at Valve are willing to take
>that hit.

I guess that's why they made the offline mode prone to disable itself,
they even included a timer that disables the offline mode after
certain date.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:18:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 03:40:36 GMT, "Adernal" <admin@geeksandgames.com>
wrote:

>why is this so complicated?
>
>its simple
>
>you download stuff, fast and with no trip to the store
>
>and you get updated free content and expansions delivered to your PC fast

It may be that simple to simple people who don't have the ability to
think it further. Once again (copy & paste):


FAQ: What is wrong with Steam and similar single-player game online
activation systems?

1. Trying to prevent second-hand sales, or lending your games to your
friend(s), or even giving away your games. Giving your Steam account
to them is not a very practical solution, unless you create a new
Steam account for each Steam game you ever buy. And even then it is
quite impractical because you can't rename Steam account IDs.

2. If the Steam game does not work right on your PC, you are pretty
much screwed. You have lost your $50-70 for good. With normal CD/DVD
games, you could sell your copy to someone else who may have better
chances running it and recoup at least some of that money you spent on
the game, but not so with Steam games (see above paragraph).

3. Your ability to install and run your Steam games in the future
depends on the existence and availability of the Steam servers and
Valve. Some have suggested you could always try to find cracks online
to counter this, but cracks may have trojans and viruses, and
according to DMCA and Euro-DMCA, they are illegal. And it is ludicrous
to have to rely on illegal cracks anyway just to play your legally
bought PC game. Some people also claim that Valve would surely release
a patch that would remove online activation before a close-down, but
why would they do so? It is not like it would bring them any more
money to release such a patch, and they certainly would have more
pressing matters on their mind if they were near bankruptcy.

4. Minor: You can't archive Steam game updates, nor decide which
update to use in case the newest update does not work right on your
system.

5. Cluttering your computer with several competing "content delivery
systems". How the heck will you be able to find the game you want to
play in the future, if you have dozen or so different "electronic PC
game content delivery clients" installed?

Little Jimmy: "Gee I want to play DukeNukem Forever. Oh, but under
which client was it? Steam? EA Online? MS Gaming Zone? WildTangent
GamePoint? Ubisoft Gamer's Heaven? Vivendi Ultimate Online Xperience?
Or any of the others I don't even remember? Oh well, I guess I need to
launch them all to remind myself what games they have."

Also one clarification to those who say WinXP also requires online
activation, yet people don't seem to mind. Two things:

- Yes, people do mind. Google is your friend. Then again, at least MS
offers offline XP activation as well.

- Comparing operating systems and PC games is apples to oranges. Do
you have dozens of different PC operating systems on your shelf which
you install and uninstall on and off, and have installed concurrently?
Not to mention that PC desktop OS market is pretty much owned by
Microsoft anyway, while two-hit wonder's (Valve) existence will be
much more suspect in the future, especially when bigger game companies
like Electronic Arts and Microsoft come up with competing content
delivery systems.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:21:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:16:56 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.dogs>
wrote:

>Didn't some people in here claim that HL2 was cracked 2 days after its
>release. If so, then 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, .... or 200 years from now
>when Valve is no more, then d/l the crack.
>
>Getting back to reality, get HL2, enjoy it for a few months, and then move
>on to the next big shooter down the road. Quake 4, Call of Duty 2,
>BattleField 3, ...

Do you think Half-life 2 will be the only Steam game in 200 years? You
don't believe Steam will succeed? Sin Episodes and the other announced
Steam games will be cancelled?

Valve/Steam fanbois use the "It is just one game!" argument very
selectively, only when it supports their argument.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:23:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:12:09 GMT, riku <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:24:15 -0700, noman <no_m_an@zzzyahoo.yycom>
>wrote:
>
>>Several years from now, when Valve has bankrupted, Tom Cruise is
>>president of United States and Regis Phelbin governs the galactic
>>empire as a Sith Lord and if I am still alive, I'll download a hack to
>>make offline mode permanent.
>
>You seem to imply that a two-hit-wonder known as Valve can't fold. How
>come such companies like Origin, Microprose, Looking Glass Studios,
>Westwood, Acclaim, Sierra etc. folded, then?

A "hit" requires lots of sales. Some of these publishers didn't make
onough.

In any case, only some of these companies didn't fold - they were closed up
by the parent campany. Westwood, for example, joined up with EA, then had
its development team scattered.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:25:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: steamKILLER <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> in
1124870081.903089.179950@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> first nobody reads past archived posts


you dont exist, those who havent killfiled you cant find you.

--
It doesn't matter what temperature the room is; it's always
room-temperature.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
August 25, 2005 1:25:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:25:46 +1000, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>you dont exist, those who havent killfiled you cant find you.

Unfortunately we still have to deal with the people that respond to
the idiot.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:25:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Andrew wrote:

> Unfortunately we still have to deal with the people that respond to
> the idiot.

You responded to steamKILLER a few days ago.
August 25, 2005 1:37:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Adernal" <admin@geeksandgames.com> wrote in message
news:U_ROe.1013$rS4.67@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> why is this so complicated?
>
>
> its simple
>
>
> you download stuff, fast and with no trip to the store

I have been downloading stuff fast for years. I said as much in my first
post.

As regards the trip to the store, I dont know about you but I find myself
going to the store once in a while to pick up any number of different things
or sometimes just to look around without any plan to buy anything. While so
engaged I have never found it arduous to take another few minutes to drop by
the local CompUSA (or whatever), look around and maybe pick something up.

>
> and you get updated free content and expansions delivered to your PC fast

If you are at all familiar with the history of "Half Life" you will know of
the vast array of "updated and free content and expansions" that thousands
of folks around the world have downloaded, played and enjoyed and all
without Steam. If free content and expansions for Half Life 2 is available
ONLY via Steam this is because Valve et al WANTED the monopoly and wrote the
code accordingly.

>
> not hard to understand why so many love it

I note in your list of why so many love Steam, you failed to mention that
without recourse to Steam, "Half Life 2" ceases to exist. Hopefully you
omitted this aspect because you consider it a DISadvantage of Steam and not
another Steam blessing that happened to slip your mind.

I can certainly understand how so many would love "Half Life 2" and I can
understand how they would love the convince that Steam provides but the
convenience you describe is not the only aspect of Steam. There is an
artificial joining of "Half Life 2" to Steam such that recourse to Steam is
required in order for "Half Life 2" to exist. It is understandable that the
love of "Half Life 2" could cause someone to tollerate this aspect of Steam
but "loving" this aspect of Steam is not rational.

>
>
August 25, 2005 2:32:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:c25Pe.29807$Ep.10950@lakeread02...
>

>
> Not nearly so long as it seems to be taking to get an answer to my simple
> question.
>

Sorry - you didn't appear to want an answer Joe. You appeared to have
already made up your mind. If I'm mistaken then apologies and the answers
are:

As purchased on a DVD you cannot install it and play like other games. HL2
requires you connect to the Internet, d-load and log into the Steam client
and have your files verified. You can then play.

You may find that there are a lot of patches that will auto-d-load (HL2 was
released 10months ago). Most are very small but one is a free multiplayer
game which is huge. If you are on broadband this should't be an issue. If
you are on metered dial-up then it will be.

Once everything is up to date and working OK you can back up your whole
installation to your hard drive or to a DVD for future re-installation to a
fresh hard-drive. I have no idea whether that fresh install would require
verifying again or whether your back up would include the previous
verification but it would include all those patches you mentioned. You
would not have to d-load them again.

Nobody knows what would happen if Valve went out of business today. Nobody.
However whether or not Valve issue a fix there is already a crack freely
available on the net. I would use it if it meant my game would still be
playable.

IMHO the ONLY valid issue with HL2 and Steam is the amount of data (patches
etc) that is forced on metered dial-up users. They have a valid gripe.
Even then they do have the option to block HL2 and Steam in their firewalls
preventing autopatching though they would need to suffer it on installation
and this would of course prevent the multiplayer games (Counter-Strike etc).

Finally - if you like CS then you will love CS:Source. Same great game but
with great graphics and physics. New models are due out soon - SAS for one.

If you want to 'test' Steam then set up an account and register your HL1 CD
key. This will give you access to several games through Steam (all
automatically updated). See what you think of it rather than listen to
others.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 5:36:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:15:22 -0400, "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net>
wrote:

>The reason why I have bought Starforce protected games but not Steam
>protected games is that Starforce does not require an online connection and
>does not intigrate itself into the operation of the game itself or the game
>update process. Updates for Starforce protected games can be downloaded like
>any other patch for any other game and stored on my own CDs.

Then you got lucky, there were some, myself included that have had
their cd drive crippled by starforce drivers.

What pissed me off the most about this is that those drivers were
installed by a god damned DEMO.

At the time this happened, the only reliable way to remove starforce
drivers was to reinstall windows. And everyone knows exactly how much
fun that is.

It would have taken less time to download the pirate copy and
install it than it took me to reinstall XP and most of my software.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 5:38:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:10:46 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The chance of me personally wanting to replay HL2 in 5 years is remote
>to say the least. And, regardless, there WILL be a hack to enable it to
>run without Steam then.

Hell, that hack exists now. :) 
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 6:33:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

riku wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:10:46 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I wonder if people dont go to the cinema in case the movie company goes
>>bust in 20 years?
>
>
> They can still watch the movie they bought in 5 years, even if the
> movie company folded. Unless, of course, the movie they bought uses
> some braindead online authentication system like Steam does.
>
>

Dont be silly Riku. I have the game on my old external HD : same as you
have said movie on a CD. Hmm. Which is more likely to crash? 50/50?
Analogy stays strong.


>>The chance of me personally wanting to replay HL2 in 5 years is remote
>>to say the least.
>
>
> Yes we know, just like you never listen to old music or watch old
> movies. Many people don't think like you, that's why things like MAME,
> WinUAE, ZSNES, DOSBox, Namco/Capcom compilations, The Underdogs
> abandonware site, console backwards compatibility etc. are so popular
> among people who are not as superficial as you.

Like me? Words into my mouth. I listen to lots of old music : music is
music and not much modern technology has altered the way we appreciate
lyrics or a good tune. I also pointed out the underdogs recently : do
try and keep up. You are clutching at this slightly statement of mine
far too strongly : it shows the weakness of your hand. To clarify : the
chance of me wanting to play it in five years is *slim* (not impossible)
: about the same chance I reckon of Valve not being around or HL2 not
being playable if they are gone. Easy.


>
> Also, didn't you say in another thread you believe that in coming
> years more and more PC games will be digitally delivered and require
> online authentication? Does this mean you think Half-life 2 will be
> the only such game you will buy in the coming 5 years?

Erm, no. And where did you get that idea?

>
> Walter is playing dumb again. We have been through this countless of
> times:

Yes : and each time you look sillier to people who cna follow more than
one thread.

>
> We are not discussing about Half-life 2 only, but all single-player
> games that will require online validation to install and play. If in
> five years you have 50 such ganes you might want to replay, it means
> having to hunt down 50 cracks for them (possibly containing viruses,
> trojans etc.).

Possibly. Oh, the old scaremongering again. A real luddite aren't you?

>
>
>>And, regardless, there WILL be a hack to enable it to
>>run without Steam then. You can count on it.
>
>
> How about the other 49 digitally delivered games, then?
>

erm, you can count on that too. Its not too hard a progression. Dont
believe me? Go to gamecopy world and see.


--
Walter Mitty
-
Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu
" Format wars could 'confuse users'"
http://www.tinyurl.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 6:34:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

riku wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:24:15 -0700, noman <no_m_an@zzzyahoo.yycom>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Several years from now, when Valve has bankrupted, Tom Cruise is
>>president of United States and Regis Phelbin governs the galactic
>>empire as a Sith Lord and if I am still alive, I'll download a hack to
>>make offline mode permanent.
>
>
> You seem to imply that a two-hit-wonder known as Valve can't fold. How
> come such companies like Origin, Microprose, Looking Glass Studios,
> Westwood, Acclaim, Sierra etc. folded, then?
>

Bwahahahahaha. "2 hit wonder". Two of the best games ever released sold
to millions.
August 25, 2005 8:43:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1124918786.55651.0@demeter.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
> news:c25Pe.29807$Ep.10950@lakeread02...
>>
>
>>
>> Not nearly so long as it seems to be taking to get an answer to my simple
>> question.
>>
>
> Sorry - you didn't appear to want an answer Joe. You appeared to have
> already made up your mind. If I'm mistaken then apologies and the answers
> are:

I did make starements about Steam that could have been so construed but I
had thought that my prefacing the statements with "As I understand it...."
and concluding with, "Is my understanding of Steam correct?" would have
prevented misunderstanding. Sorry if I was unclear and thank you for your
answer.

>
> As purchased on a DVD you cannot install it and play like other games.
> HL2 requires you connect to the Internet, d-load and log into the Steam
> client and have your files verified. You can then play.
>
> You may find that there are a lot of patches that will auto-d-load (HL2
> was released 10months ago). Most are very small but one is a free
> multiplayer game which is huge. If you are on broadband this should't be
> an issue. If you are on metered dial-up then it will be.
>
> Once everything is up to date and working OK you can back up your whole
> installation to your hard drive or to a DVD for future re-installation to
> a fresh hard-drive. I have no idea whether that fresh install would
> require verifying again or whether your back up would include the previous
> verification but it would include all those patches you mentioned. You
> would not have to d-load them again.

User storage of downloaded patches and expansions was my primary concern. I
had the impression that the only files the user could ever store for later
installation were the incomplete games and expansions that came on the store
bought DVD's and that all else had to be downloaded again and again and
again with each fresh install. That I do not now have the DVD writer
necessary to store the downloads is not the fault nor the problem of Valve
et al. I have been wanting a DVD writer for a while anyway. I have to admit
a bit of gratitude to Valve for providing the excuse I need to actually buy
one.

>
> Nobody knows what would happen if Valve went out of business today.
> Nobody. However whether or not Valve issue a fix there is already a crack
> freely available on the net. I would use it if it meant my game would
> still be playable.

Few things on earth are more certain than is the rapid cracking of the
latest "uncrackable" protection. As long as I am able to store and reinstall
previously downloaded patches, updates and expansions I see as much risk of
Valve's demise rendering HL2 unplayable due to lack of a "crack" (Valve
supplied or otherwise) as there is risk that any of my other older games
will be rendered unbootable due to upgrades in hardware or operating
systems. From what I read in the reviews Half Life 2 is worth that risk.

>
> IMHO the ONLY valid issue with HL2 and Steam is the amount of data
> (patches etc) that is forced on metered dial-up users. They have a valid
> gripe. Even then they do have the option to block HL2 and Steam in their
> firewalls preventing autopatching though they would need to suffer it on
> installation and this would of course prevent the multiplayer games
> (Counter-Strike etc).
>
> Finally - if you like CS then you will love CS:Source. Same great game
> but with great graphics and physics. New models are due out soon - SAS
> for one.

This reminds me of something else I have heard about Steam. I know there are
anti-cheat measures built into servers that will ban CD Keys if cheating is
detected. No problem with this but I hear that Valve has officially declared
the anti-cheat system to be Godlike in its perfection and infalible in
operation. If the omnipotent system detects something odd it will assume
"cheating" is afoot. An automatic banning occors that is forever and without
appeal. It seems, in effect, that the fact that you have been hanged is
proof positive that you deserved the hanging.

The only cure for the banning is to get a new CD Key that can only be had
with the purchase of a new game. I also gather that the permenant
"cheating" ban can be triggered by something so innocent as an errant skin
that, for some reason, the server does not like.

Are the anti cheat measures really this sensiitve, harsh and permemant?

>
> If you want to 'test' Steam then set up an account and register your HL1
> CD key. This will give you access to several games through Steam (all
> automatically updated). See what you think of it rather than listen to
> others.
>

After reading your post I went up on "steampowered.com" for more information
about registering HL1 for the "test". "Steam provided" versions of the
original Half Life (series) were there for sale and download but I saw
nothing about registering existing Half Life (series) CD's bought long
before the advent of HL2 and Steam. If there is a page on Steam I missed
could you provide a link?

As of my last look your reply is all that kept the thread from becoming a
total mindless slamfest. It was my confused impressions gathered from my
wadings through the sludge of previous Steam threads that prompted my
initial post. Thanks again for the sane reply.


>
>
>
August 25, 2005 8:43:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:43:58 -0400, "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net>
wrote:

>This reminds me of something else I have heard about Steam. I know there are
>anti-cheat measures built into servers that will ban CD Keys if cheating is
>detected. [snip]
>
>The only cure for the banning is to get a new CD Key that can only be had
>with the purchase of a new game. I also gather that the permenant
>"cheating" ban can be triggered by something so innocent as an errant skin
>that, for some reason, the server does not like.
>
>Are the anti cheat measures really this sensiitve, harsh and permemant?

The anti-cheating measures ban the offending account from playing on
multiplayer servers which have VAC (Valve Anti-Cheating) options. That
is, it doesn't affect single player. It also doesn't affect
multiplayer games played on servers that don't care about this issue.

The only things that can outright ban an account from playing in any
mode, is when Valve detects frauds involving credit card numbers and
stolen keys.
--
Noman
August 26, 2005 1:59:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:43:58 -0400, "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net>
wrote:

>After reading your post I went up on "steampowered.com" for more information
>about registering HL1 for the "test". "Steam provided" versions of the
>original Half Life (series) were there for sale and download but I saw
>nothing about registering existing Half Life (series) CD's bought long
>before the advent of HL2 and Steam. If there is a page on Steam I missed
>could you provide a link?

Just install Steam, the register option is in the browse games menu.
It will then download the updates to run HL1 via Steam.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
August 26, 2005 3:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
news:14qPe.55477$Ep.50678@lakeread02...
>
> This reminds me of something else I have heard about Steam. I know there
> are anti-cheat measures built into servers that will ban CD Keys if
> cheating is detected. No problem with this but I hear that Valve has
> officially declared the anti-cheat system to be Godlike in its perfection
> and infalible in operation. If the omnipotent system detects something
> odd it will assume "cheating" is afoot. An automatic banning occors that
> is forever and without appeal. It seems, in effect, that the fact that you
> have been hanged is proof positive that you deserved the hanging.
>
> The only cure for the banning is to get a new CD Key that can only be had
> with the purchase of a new game. I also gather that the permenant
> "cheating" ban can be triggered by something so innocent as an errant skin
> that, for some reason, the server does not like.
>
> Are the anti cheat measures really this sensiitve, harsh and permemant?

I couldn't honestly answer that. I play online, I have mods, I have skins
(about to try the new high rez ones) and I have never had a problem.
Perhaps some surfing of the forums of Steampowered.com is in order...

> After reading your post I went up on "steampowered.com" for more
> information about registering HL1 for the "test". "Steam provided"
> versions of the original Half Life (series) were there for sale and
> download but I saw nothing about registering existing Half Life (series)
> CD's bought long before the advent of HL2 and Steam. If there is a page
> on Steam I missed could you provide a link?

As Andrew says download and install Steam. Set up your account. When you
run it choose 'Browse Games' from the menu and there is an option to
'Register Games I Already Own'. Choose that.

One other thing you might consider is setting up and having more than one
Steam account. One for HL1, one for HL2 etc. I never sell my games so they
are all on the one Steam account (and why I hadn't thought of it
previously). If you sell your games you 'should' sell the Steam account
with it otherwise what is to stop you playing it after you've sold it? The
CD key and the account are tied. As I said - something else to consider.

> As of my last look your reply is all that kept the thread from becoming a
> total mindless slamfest. It was my confused impressions gathered from my
> wadings through the sludge of previous Steam threads that prompted my
> initial post. Thanks again for the sane reply.

No probs. Steam does has it's problems (especially if you are on metered
dial-up) but for me the advantages far outweigh them and I expect even those
to be ironed out. I hope it suits you too.
August 26, 2005 3:42:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1125008168.3777.0@demeter.uk.clara.net...
>
> "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
> news:14qPe.55477$Ep.50678@lakeread02...
>>
>> This reminds me of something else I have heard about Steam. I know there
>> are anti-cheat measures built into servers that will ban CD Keys if
>> cheating is detected. No problem with this but I hear that Valve has
>> officially declared the anti-cheat system to be Godlike in its perfection
>> and infalible in operation. If the omnipotent system detects something
>> odd it will assume "cheating" is afoot. An automatic banning occors that
>> is forever and without appeal. It seems, in effect, that the fact that
>> you have been hanged is proof positive that you deserved the hanging.
>>

Found out a little more about this. Detecting 'something odd' shouldn't
trigger it but if you use software cheats online to gain an advantage they
will get detected by VAC (Valve Anti Cheat software). You will then have
that Steam account banned from Valve's secure servers. You can still play
single player, you can still play LAN and you can still play on insecure
servers. You (or that Steam account) are banned (forever) from Valve's
secure servers. Zero-tolerance on cheating. One strike and out. Pity some
other servers dont do this.

Link to info here... http://tinyurl.com/87ggr
August 26, 2005 3:42:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:42:01 +0100, "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:

>|
>|"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
>|news:1125008168.3777.0@demeter.uk.clara.net...
>|>
>|> "Joe" <NOmejoe100@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
>|> news:14qPe.55477$Ep.50678@lakeread02...
>|>>
>|>> This reminds me of something else I have heard about Steam. I know there
>|>> are anti-cheat measures built into servers that will ban CD Keys if
>|>> cheating is detected. No problem with this but I hear that Valve has
>|>> officially declared the anti-cheat system to be Godlike in its perfection
>|>> and infalible in operation. If the omnipotent system detects something
>|>> odd it will assume "cheating" is afoot. An automatic banning occors that
>|>> is forever and without appeal. It seems, in effect, that the fact that
>|>> you have been hanged is proof positive that you deserved the hanging.
>|>>
>|
>|Found out a little more about this. Detecting 'something odd' shouldn't
>|trigger it but if you use software cheats online to gain an advantage they
>|will get detected by VAC (Valve Anti Cheat software). You will then have
>|that Steam account banned from Valve's secure servers. You can still play
>|single player, you can still play LAN and you can still play on insecure
>|servers. You (or that Steam account) are banned (forever) from Valve's
>|secure servers. Zero-tolerance on cheating. One strike and out. Pity some
>|other servers dont do this.
>|
>|Link to info here... http://tinyurl.com/87ggr
>|
>|

The only issue I have with this is for some reason VAC glitches and labels me a
cheat even if I did not. That will sure upset me if I'm locked out of my online
game and hadn't cheated. I hope VAC is more reliable then say, Punkbuster which
gets false positives frequently.

Pluvious
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 6:17:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:

>>
>> You seem to imply that a two-hit-wonder known as Valve can't fold. How
>> come such companies like Origin, Microprose, Looking Glass Studios,
>> Westwood, Acclaim, Sierra etc. folded, then?
>>
>
> Bwahahahahaha. "2 hit wonder". Two of the best games ever released sold
> to millions.

But it is... 2 hits. Valve gets a lot of praise but they don't have much of
a track record to really go on. So far so good I guess, but still.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 4:13:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>>You seem to imply that a two-hit-wonder known as Valve can't fold. How
>>>come such companies like Origin, Microprose, Looking Glass Studios,
>>>Westwood, Acclaim, Sierra etc. folded, then?
>>>
>>
>>Bwahahahahaha. "2 hit wonder". Two of the best games ever released sold
>>to millions.
>
>
> But it is... 2 hits. Valve gets a lot of praise but they don't have much of
> a track record to really go on. So far so good I guess, but still.
>

but not a 2 hit wonder.

they only released two games because they took time to produce what the
game players wanted : story driven, action game with leading edge
technology.

they delivered.

this is not a "2 hit wonder". Its a wonderful company which has released
two great games to date.

not to mention their engines for the most popular online FPS in history.

"2 hit wonder" my ass.

--
Walter Mitty
-
Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu
" Format wars could 'confuse users'"
http://www.tinyurl.com
August 26, 2005 8:34:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

You speak of rights for what you paid for and that is ludicrous. When you
purchase any software, there are license restrictions. If HL2 requires you
to use steam, then you have 2 options; use steam, or don't play HL2 (or if
you want to go against the license, you can crack it with the "illegal
code"). What rights do you have other than what they grant you? By what
you are saying, since we pay for software, we should be able to make a bunch
of copies and sell them on eBay!

Maybe PC gaming isn't for you. If you get your panties so much in a bunch
over steam or over pc game piracy, maybe you should try console gaming. No
steam, barely any piracy. That should be right up your alley!

JMoney



"steamKILLER" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124872390.789639.20660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> OldDog wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> didn't you read Joe's post!
> he didn't ask about the game
> he ask about the delivery system!
> don't you know the difference?
> the issue is not half-life 2 but steam!
> obviously you being pro steam fanatic you are not comfortable
> discussing it and you want to move along
> you want to run away from the discussion cause you have ZERO
> to add but no sir, we will not pretend steam is all right and
> we will not let valve have a "walk in the park" monopolizing
> the pc game market and abusing us all pc gamers
>
> as for your recommendation of using cracks
> we pay for a game to run out of the box! not to have to use
> illegal code just to be able to play with something we payed
> for! we PAY so we have RIGHTS and demand respect!
>
> ps: please don't try following up with your old excuses to
> cover up valve's wrong doings cause i'm sick of them
>
> --
> post made in a steam-free computer
> i said "NO" to valve and steam
>
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:37:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:13:05 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>>>Bwahahahahaha. "2 hit wonder". Two of the best games ever released sold
>>>to millions.
>>
>>
>> But it is... 2 hits. Valve gets a lot of praise but they don't have much of
>> a track record to really go on. So far so good I guess, but still.
>>
>
>but not a 2 hit wonder.

LOL! Once again you are not making any sense, like you weren't when
you claimed WinRAR uses lossy compression algorithm.

>this is not a "2 hit wonder". Its a wonderful company which has released
>two great games to date.

Ie. a two hit wonder.

As always, past success does not always guarantee future success,
especially if the company is stuck with only one game series.
August 29, 2005 4:59:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

LOL


<cosmo_kramer1@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124890980.366397.200450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> if we didnt have starforce becuz piracy was gone then that would be no
> fun cuz we need piracy cuz othwize wed have to pay for evrything and
> that costs lots of money and we dont always have lots of money but do
> like to play the newist games so fight for piracy cuz with it we can
> play the newest pc games wich are almost as good as the grate console
> games so i think steam is cool and so is starforce cuz it meens that
> piracy is strong and will keep going so maybee pc games should be
> stopped so we can just play console games becuz pc games are not good
> compaird to the great console games and i want console games to be
> strong and we shuld all buy lots of console games and support the
> console game develupers becuase they make fun games and better then pc
> games with starforce but if steam can change that and make us all play
> pc games then that would be good too that is what i keep preeching
> about cuz we need to fight and stay together and win the fight aginst
> games that dont have steam and are not console games
>
> STEAM roolz!!!
> console games RULE to!!!
> SayNoToGamesWithoutSteamUnlessTheyAreConsoleGamesThenTheyAreCool!!!
> AlsoGamesShouldBeOn3.5Disks
> andInCoolBoxesNotAnnoyingCDsAndDVDsandInternet!!!
>
!