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Suggestions for Half Life 3

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Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:42:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

It is not needed to go over Why HL2 Was such a success, but after
playing it there are some areas where improvements could be made HL3.
One area was that I found it ridiculous lockers and other areas had
nothing in them. And the only place to get the Medkits and ammo were
those Small boxes that clearly were Marked Supplies.
Also making the HL More like Far cry in the sense of going anywhere
and make it less linear would truly add to the game.
Other than those two small Complaints the game is truly Flawless.
An AMAZING acomplishment For Everyone at Valve.

More about : suggestions half life

Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:36:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

SamuelF566@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

the only suggestion i have for half-life 3 is being steam
free? so can you please ask politely your master valve to
do it, to have half-life 3 also available as a PROPER retail
packaged box game with no steam infection in it

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:52:35 AM

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Werner Spahl wrote:

> We all know you disliked Far Cry as much as I disliked HL2, Walter ;) , but
> how about a compromise like NOLF or Bloodlines, where you sometimes had
> different options to tackle a problem?

Ahh Mr Werner Spahl...
Related resources
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 3:57:05 PM

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SamuelF566@gmail.com wrote:
> It is not needed to go over Why HL2 Was such a success, but after
> playing it there are some areas where improvements could be made HL3.
> One area was that I found it ridiculous lockers and other areas had
> nothing in them. And the only place to get the Medkits and ammo were
> those Small boxes that clearly were Marked Supplies.
> Also making the HL More like Far cry in the sense of going anywhere
> and make it less linear would truly add to the game.

It would remove from the game. You'd be wandering around lost for ages
with nothing to look at but yet more dense foliage. Half Life 2 was an
on the rails action shooter.

> Other than those two small Complaints the game is truly Flawless.
> An AMAZING acomplishment For Everyone at Valve.
>


--
Walter Mitty
-
Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu
" Format wars could 'confuse users'"
http://www.tinyurl.com
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 4:57:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Your forgetting why Valve went with the whole Steam Idea. Their code
was stolen and they got burned. Now they have a system where you can't
resell the game or steal any reg codes to play it.
Going through Steam is nearly foolproof .. but I agree it would be
easier for the consumer without it. Here using a dial-up took me 3
hours for validations, upgrades, and downloads till I started playing.
I don't think I will buy another game using steam either.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:03:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

The Only New thing they can add now to FPS Is the addition of the Green
screen Technology that the "New Need For Speed Most Wanted" For the
Xbox 360 will have.
With actual Actors in the game itself. That would be cool.. Such as
Alex in HL2 Would be an actual Character on screen instead of computer
generated. Other than that there is not too much more to go with FPS
Games.. We have great physics , very near photorealism, and great
gameplay.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:48:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:

> It would remove from the game. You'd be wandering around lost for ages
> with nothing to look at but yet more dense foliage. Half Life 2 was an
> on the rails action shooter.

We all know you disliked Far Cry as much as I disliked HL2, Walter ;) , but
how about a compromise like NOLF or Bloodlines, where you sometimes had
different options to tackle a problem?

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 24, 2005 5:48:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:48:38 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>We all know you disliked Far Cry as much as I disliked HL2, Walter ;) , but
>how about a compromise like NOLF or Bloodlines, where you sometimes had
>different options to tackle a problem?

NOLF was a fine game, but wasn't much less linear than HL2. You can
hardly compare HL2 with Bloodlines, they are very different games.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
August 24, 2005 5:48:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0508241346290.22004@localhost...
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>> It would remove from the game. You'd be wandering around lost for ages
>> with nothing to look at but yet more dense foliage. Half Life 2 was an
>> on the rails action shooter.
>
> We all know you disliked Far Cry as much as I disliked HL2, Walter ;) , but
> how about a compromise like NOLF or Bloodlines, where you sometimes had
> different options to tackle a problem?
>

I enjoyed Far Cry *and* HL2. HL2 worked for me because it carried me from
set piece to set piece with a good storyline, fantastic animation and plenty
of action. A little like a good movie. Unlike MOHPA I didn't mind it was
on rails same as I dont mind rollercoasters are on rails :-) It was damned
fun to play.

Far Cry worked for the opposite reasons (except the action). I had freedom
to try different things in a fairly believable world and that was great. FC
as it is would not make a good movie - you'd have to put it on rails and
script it first - make it more like HL2 in other words.

I'm able to accept that the games are very different and were intended to be
and enjoy both for what they are. For Far Cry 2 and HL3 I'd accept more of
the same.

I haven't played NOLF but Bloodlines isn't an FPS and the whole game is
about choices - there wouldn't be a game without them. You obviously enjoy
choices in games, dialogue etc. So do I. I wouldn't expect every game to
be made that way though. I also like mindless 'on the rails action shooters
too' as Walter puts it. All these games work the way they are - all are
leading examples of game types. Some may not like one 'type' and prefer
another. I guess I'm lucky - I like em all.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Andrew wrote:

> NOLF was a fine game, but wasn't much less linear than HL2. You can

I seem to remember that you sometimes had two different routes to a
target location, something which you never had in HL2 I think.

> hardly compare HL2 with Bloodlines, they are very different games.

You can compare the shooter part of Bloodlines, e.g. why is it not
possible in HL2 to sneak up on someone and stun them silently?

Also some backtracking and sidetracking would lessen the linearity
impression, especially with all those well placed fences around ;) .

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 24, 2005 5:59:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:59:35 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>You can compare the shooter part of Bloodlines, e.g. why is it not
>possible in HL2 to sneak up on someone and stun them silently?

Because it isn't trying to be Deus Ex, Hitman or Thief. HL2 is a
linear FPS game, nothing more, nothing less, and is great fun for what
it sets out to be. Action FPS games obviously aren't your bag, but
don't keep whining on when other people do enjoy them.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
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Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:34:56 PM

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On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Andrew wrote:

> Action FPS games obviously aren't your bag, but don't keep whining on
> when other people do enjoy them.

I like pure action FPS but found that HL2 actually gave me fewer choices
than I had in HL or at least it appeared to be so. What is wrong for a FPS
to evolve a little and go with the times? I don't expect something like DX
because that kind of choices were too much done on cost of the action in
my taste. But I would like more interactivity to make the game more real.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 24, 2005 6:34:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:34:56 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>I like pure action FPS but found that HL2 actually gave me fewer choices
>than I had in HL or at least it appeared to be so. What is wrong for a FPS
>to evolve a little and go with the times?

HL2 did evolve a little, it introduced the excellent gravity gun,
vehicles and great character animation.

> I don't expect something like DX
>because that kind of choices were too much done on cost of the action in
>my taste. But I would like more interactivity to make the game more real.

You obviously don't understand the concept of a linear game, it allows
for movie like scripting that can't be achieved in a non linear game.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
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Anonymous
August 24, 2005 7:16:14 PM

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On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Andrew wrote:

> You obviously don't understand the concept of a linear game, it allows
> for movie like scripting that can't be achieved in a non linear game.

It is no problem to have some not so linear parts of the game that are
connected at the places where the movie like scripting is to occurr.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 24, 2005 7:47:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Your forgetting why Valve went with the whole Steam Idea. Their code
> was stolen and they got burned. Now they have a system where you can't
> resell the game or steal any reg codes to play it.
> Going through Steam is nearly foolproof .. but I agree it would be
> easier for the consumer without it. Here using a dial-up took me 3
> hours for validations, upgrades, and downloads till I started playing.
> I don't think I will buy another game using steam either.

Steam was developed and operational before the Half-Life 2 code was stolen.
August 24, 2005 7:52:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Other than that there is not too much more to go with FPS
> Games.. We have great physics , very near photorealism, and great
> gameplay.

Gameplay and level design (and storylines and weaponry and enemies and...)
can always be improved. Otherwise, why make any new games?

My point is that the genre may be long in the tooth, but it is also tried
and true and still makes money.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:20:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

SamuelF566@gmail.com wrote:
> It is not needed to go over Why HL2 Was such a success, but after
> playing it there are some areas where improvements could be made HL3.
> One area was that I found it ridiculous lockers and other areas had
> nothing in them. And the only place to get the Medkits and ammo were
> those Small boxes that clearly were Marked Supplies.
> Also making the HL More like Far cry in the sense of going anywhere
> and make it less linear would truly add to the game.
> Other than those two small Complaints the game is truly Flawless.
> An AMAZING acomplishment For Everyone at Valve.
>

Make it like Stalker has been telling us it will be.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:09:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Sketch <nah@no.nut> in deimdk$356$1@news.tamu.edu
>> Your forgetting why Valve went with the whole Steam Idea. Their code
>> was stolen and they got burned. Now they have a system where you
>> can't resell the game or steal any reg codes to play it.
>> Going through Steam is nearly foolproof .. but I agree it would be
>> easier for the consumer without it. Here using a dial-up took me 3
>> hours for validations, upgrades, and downloads till I started
>> playing. I don't think I will buy another game using steam either.
>
> Steam was developed and operational before the Half-Life 2 code was
> stolen.

steam was there before hls was even started

--
Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one?

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:47:49 PM

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SamuelF566@gmail.com wrote:

>The Only New thing they can add now to FPS Is the addition of the Green
>screen Technology that the "New Need For Speed Most Wanted" For the
>Xbox 360 will have.

Interactive movies are the future of gaming ;)  Welcome to the nineties
pal...


Znegva

--
http://www.kewlrule.de
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 5:14:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Highlandish wrote:

> > Steam was developed and operational before the Half-Life 2 code was
> > stolen.
>
> steam was there before hl2 was even started

I suspect that this is due to the fact that Newell is an ex-Microsoft
employee and just wanted to give Bill some competion in dominance ;) .

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 6:37:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Andrew wrote:
>
>
>>NOLF was a fine game, but wasn't much less linear than HL2. You can
>
>
> I seem to remember that you sometimes had two different routes to a
> target location, something which you never had in HL2 I think.
>

Not true.

You could go left around a building or right around a building. No less
linear than NOLF if you extrapolate a little.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 6:38:24 PM

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SamuelF566@gmail.com wrote:
> Your forgetting why Valve went with the whole Steam Idea. Their code
> was stolen and they got burned. Now they have a system where you can't
> resell the game or steal any reg codes to play it.

You clearly have no idea about what you are talking about. HL2 was
delayed because the stolen code had the Steam kernel in it and therefore
the theft compromised the security of Steam.

Oh, and you can resell the game.
August 25, 2005 7:43:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:47:07 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>After all the unofficial patches Bloodlines is as bug free as any game.

Yeah right. It is the only game I have where my footstep sounds are
completely out of sync with my character.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
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Anonymous
August 25, 2005 8:02:42 PM

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On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:

> You could go left around a building or right around a building. No less
> linear than NOLF if you extrapolate a little.

Hmmm, I really don't think so. Most of the buildings were in fact build
into a wall or with the back to the sea. I was really dissappointed by the
linearity of HL2 also by the much too obvious way it was provided using
fences, canal walls and similar. Little side- and backtracking also IIRC.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 8:02:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
>>You could go left around a building or right around a building. No less
>>linear than NOLF if you extrapolate a little.
>
>
> Hmmm, I really don't think so. Most of the buildings were in fact build
> into a wall or with the back to the sea. I was really dissappointed by the
> linearity of HL2 also by the much too obvious way it was provided using
> fences, canal walls and similar. Little side- and backtracking also IIRC.
>
This bugged me about Half Life 2 as well. Take that long boat ride
through the canals, or that long drive along the coast. It seemed that
these were points where the game designers could "plug in" a section or
two to make the game longer.

There was one point where your boat arrives at a point where the path is
blocked by a set of water gates. So, you have to stop, fight your way
through a building, open the gates (or destroy them, I think), fight
your way _back_ through the building, and proceed.

Admittedly, this could be said about a lot of the game's individual
maps. But many of these were really interesting-- like the sequence when
you have to work your way across the underside of the bridge. But there
were a few sections which felt like off-the-shelf filler.

Oh, I have a question. Before HL2 came out, some of the gameplay movies
had scenes which didn't turn up in the final game-- I recall one point
in a tunnel, where Alyx tells Gordon to look out. Gordon turns, there's
a Combine soldier there... and a tentacle comes in and impales him. And
then there's that Strider video, touted as an example of how the AI
figured out to lower itself to get under a walkway. Has there been an
information about these scenes?
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 8:45:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Brian Siano wrote:

> Has there been an information about these scenes?

There is an alpha version of HL2 floating somewhere on the net, in which
these scenes might be included. I think there was something about a level
playing on a stranded ship as well. Probably and hopefully, remember my
Uplink patch ;) , we will experience these in The Lost Coast or Aftermath.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
August 25, 2005 8:45:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0508251635490.30070@localhost...
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Brian Siano wrote:
>
>> Has there been an information about these scenes?
>
> There is an alpha version of HL2 floating somewhere on the net, in which
> these scenes might be included. I think there was something about a level
> playing on a stranded ship as well. Probably and hopefully, remember my
> Uplink patch ;) , we will experience these in The Lost Coast or Aftermath.
>

Apparently the blue 'tentacle' was dropped as it just didn't work in the
game. The rest (as Werner says) will hopefully be implemented in Aftermath
or subsequent chapters.

Werner - you've mentioned it twice. What is your Uplink patch?
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 9:11:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
>>You could go left around a building or right around a building. No less
>>linear than NOLF if you extrapolate a little.
>
>
> Hmmm, I really don't think so. Most of the buildings were in fact build
> into a wall or with the back to the sea. I was really dissappointed by the
> linearity of HL2 also by the much too obvious way it was provided using
> fences, canal walls and similar. Little side- and backtracking also IIRC.
>

We could argue until the cows come home. But personally I spent a lot of
time in HL2 knocking around little alleys and darker rooms etc. Sure its
linear in that theres a start and an end goal : but there really is
nothing less linear than NOLF or (shudder) Far Cry IMO. The much touted
"non linearity" of Far Cry is a load of rubbish : bigger maps dont make
for "non linear". Sure, you can sneak around some road blocks etc, but
you could also sneak away from or rush defence many obstacles in HL2 too
: albeit not to the same "scale". For me, as Ive said many times before,
Far Cry was simply boring : I want more action in an action game. If I
want "non lienar snorefest" I would play one of these MMORPG or whatever
they're called.

--
Walter Mitty
-
Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu
" Format wars could 'confuse users'"
http://www.tinyurl.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 9:21:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Shawk wrote:

> Werner - you've mentioned it twice. What is your Uplink patch?

An old work of mine which will incooperate the levels from the Uplink demo
into the Half-Life storyline, so you can play all the official maps in one
go, without loading a mod or the demo itself. I placed them right into the
teleporter riddle at the end, so there will be a pleasant surprise as well
during the stupid teleporting. You'll find it on fileplanet as HLuplink12.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 9:29:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:

> We could argue until the cows come home. But personally I spent a lot of
> time in HL2 knocking around little alleys and darker rooms etc. Sure its

There is almost nothing to be seen, nothing to find beside the road.

> linear in that theres a start and an end goal : but there really is
> nothing less linear than NOLF or (shudder) Far Cry IMO. The much touted

While I think that NOLF was indeed not very much more less linear, you are
of course wrong about Far Cry. Situations where you could fight your way
on foot, drive a boat or a car around, or even fly over many enemies with
your paraglider is non-linear like I understand it. Of course all these
paths end at one point but this is how it needs to be to provide a story.

> for "non linear". Sure, you can sneak around some road blocks etc, but
> you could also sneak away from or rush defence many obstacles in HL2 too

This I think is not true. You could do this as much as in any game where
you can attack or retreat and keep them coming. You can even do it in D3!

> Far Cry was simply boring : I want more action in an action game.

This was your choice then, you should have taken the short route ;) .

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 9:40:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
>
> This was your choice then, you should have taken the short route ;) .
>

I did. I removed it from my HD :-;
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 8:43:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 02:57:05 -0700, Walter Mitty wrote
(in article <3n2ujgF19hvbcU1@uni-berlin.de>):

> It would remove from the game. You'd be wandering around lost for ages
> with nothing to look at but yet more dense foliage. Half Life 2 was an
> on the rails action shooter.

Well said. The "non-linear = better" argument is just silly. Some games work
well non-linear (GTA) while others like HL2 are a series of carefully
choreographed set pieces that would suffer in many ways if they tried to make
it non-linear. Neither is better or worse, they are just very different tools
that work well for different game styles. Saying "non linear = better" is as
silly as saying "all game should be first-person" (FPS platformer, anyone?).
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 3:46:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Joe62 <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:

>Well said. The "non-linear = better" argument is just silly.

I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story. That's why
the games are linear, to advance the story in a predictable way at a
predictable pace.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 12:09:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 02:46:36 -0700, Mean_Chlorine wrote
(in article <7ad0h1p8pfc2ktc0n074p5q9kcdhkgkcjc@4ax.com>):

> I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story. That's why
> the games are linear, to advance the story in a predictable way at a
> predictable pace.

That's a good way to put it, and is probably a strong reason that HL2 went
that way. The other benefit of non-linear is you have a lot more control over
level design. You know exactly how/where/when the player is going to be
encountering things, so everything from level layout to enemy placement and
behavior can be designed for maximum effect.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:26:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Joe62 wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 02:46:36 -0700, Mean_Chlorine wrote
> (in article <7ad0h1p8pfc2ktc0n074p5q9kcdhkgkcjc@4ax.com>):
>
> > I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story. That's why
> > the games are linear, to advance the story in a predictable way at a
> > predictable pace.
>
> That's a good way to put it, and is probably a strong reason that HL2 went
> that way. The other benefit of non-linear is you have a lot more control over
> level design. You know exactly how/where/when the player is going to be

I would guess it was the second reason regarding HL2 then, because there
wasn't much of a story besides getting from point a to point b...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:29:18 AM

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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Pluvious wrote:

> Boxes and crates had 'fake' stuff that would fly out when you broke them. HL2
> had nothing.

I agree with all your points, also please bring back the HL diversity of
cool enemies and weapons.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:32:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story. That's why

A game needn't to be linear to have a great story just special "choke"
points where the player has to go through. Just look at the story of
Bloodlines which is much better than that of HL or HL2 and non-linear.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> Spake Unto All:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Mean_Chlorine wrote:
>
>> I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story. That's why
>
>A game needn't to be linear to have a great story just special "choke"
>points where the player has to go through. Just look at the story of
>Bloodlines which is much better than that of HL or HL2 and non-linear.

I've not played bloodlines because I find vampires as silly as garden
gnomes and even more tacky, but the point isn't if the story is GOOD.
Movies are always linear, doesn't mean they necessarily tell good
stories. The point is that being non-linear would mean you can not
have a coherent story because things don't happen in a predictable
sequence - Morrowind and MMORPGs are the best example as they are
about as non-linear as any rpg has ever been.
I'm guessing that with non-linear-with-chokepoints you mean something
like Deus Ex or Far Cry - and those are really as linear as railroad
tracks. The story can not be deviated from, the order of events can
not be changed, you only have more than one (usually exactly two)
route (which doesn't affect story) between the cutscenes to give an
illusion of choice.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:39:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:38:24 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Oh, and you can resell the game.

Veeery painfully and inconveniently. I can't sell HL2 without also
losing my TeamFortress Classic game.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:43:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:52:52 -0500, "Sketch" <nah@no.nut> wrote:

>My point is that the genre may be long in the tooth

(FPS) Then again, which genre isn't? Driving games? Sports games?
Shoot'em ups? Flight combat sims? Dancing games?
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:52:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:46:36 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly Joe62 <noone@nowhere.com> Spake Unto All:
>
>>Well said. The "non-linear = better" argument is just silly.
>
>I'd instead say that linear = stronger emphasis on story.

Then again, GTA3 had a strong story even though people seem to
consider it to be non-linear.

Non-linear = more gameplay choices and more believable game world.
Yes, I would say that it usually means better.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 12:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:26:41 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Joe62 wrote:
>
>> That's a good way to put it, and is probably a strong reason that HL2 went
>> that way. The other benefit of non-linear is you have a lot more control over
>> level design. You know exactly how/where/when the player is going to be
>
>I would guess it was the second reason regarding HL2 then, because there
>wasn't much of a story besides getting from point a to point b...

Come to think of it... you are actually very right with this one. HL2
story wasn't really all that it was cracked up to be. At least in HL1
you would see this mysterious G-man wandering around time to time, but
in HL2 you seemed to see him only at the very end, where he babbles
senselessly. HL2 didn't really seem to offer much more over the
original HL1 storyline.

So what was the HL2 story about, then? You are Gordon, you are going
to help a few of your old friends to fight the system by going where
they tell you, and there's the cliched beautiful daughter of the old
scientist which has a crush on you and who you are trying to save at
the end, along with her father. Oh and in the "surprise" department,
the bad guy was originally the CEO of the Black Mesa labs of Half-life
1, and the woman which deceives you has a change of heart at the very
end and wants to be on the good side after all when he sees what a
madman her master is after all.

Wow! They should make a movie out of that! Not. Non-linear games like
Grant Theft Auto 3 have easily just as detailed and good (if not
better) story.
August 29, 2005 5:53:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"riku" <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:ief5h11t3fgdh6368kbee767cuups00119@4ax.com...

At least in HL1
> you would see this mysterious G-man wandering around time to time, but
> in HL2 you seemed to see him only at the very end, where he babbles
> senselessly.

Did we play the same game? Part of the fun of the game was spotting the
guy. I saw him at least 7 times. Others saw him more.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 6:39:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> you only have more than one (usually exactly two) route (which doesn't
> affect story) between the cutscenes to give an illusion of choice.

This would be fine then wouldn't it? We'll get our great story and still
some choices or at least the illusion of them, which also could provide
different means to tackle situations with the result of added gameplay.
IMHO this is much better than e.g. HL2, where paths confined by fences
and walls all the time, scattered the illusion of a real world for me!

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 7:03:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Shawk wrote:

"riku" <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:ief5h11t3fgdh6368kbee767cuups00119@4ax.com...
>
> At least in HL1
> > you would see this mysterious G-man wandering around time to time, but
> > in HL2 you seemed to see him only at the very end, where he babbles
> > senselessly.
>
> Did we play the same game? Part of the fun of the game was spotting the
> guy. I saw him at least 7 times. Others saw him more.

You saw him a few times but most of them from much farther off than in HL.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 7:17:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, riku wrote:

> the end, along with her father. Oh and in the "surprise" department,
> the bad guy was originally the CEO of the Black Mesa labs of Half-life

Don't forget the "surprise" that the alleged bad guy of HL, the Gman, who
most people here thought was the CEO of Black Mesa labs in HL, is now on
your side, although it is curious, why he did teleport you into the town
in the first place and not right into e.g. the resistance headquarters?

It's not that you do anything really significant before freeing Eli. And
how could Earth have lost with Gmans powers and the whole organic tech of
Xen in its hands? The Combine at the time of HL2 are not that powerful. It
seems to me that little story of HL2 that is there, has holes all over it!

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 9:29:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1125319687.70345.0@iris.uk.clara.net...
>
> "riku" <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:ief5h11t3fgdh6368kbee767cuups00119@4ax.com...
>
> At least in HL1
>> you would see this mysterious G-man wandering around time to time, but
>> in HL2 you seemed to see him only at the very end, where he babbles
>> senselessly.
>
> Did we play the same game? Part of the fun of the game was spotting the
> guy. I saw him at least 7 times. Others saw him more.
>
>
>
>
*Really!* G-Man was all over the place! he was talking to lots of the same
people you had to deal with too! Gee whiz!
McG.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 9:32:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0508291501220.17719@localhost...
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Shawk wrote:
>
> "riku" <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:ief5h11t3fgdh6368kbee767cuups00119@4ax.com...
>>
>> At least in HL1
>> > you would see this mysterious G-man wandering around time to time, but
>> > in HL2 you seemed to see him only at the very end, where he babbles
>> > senselessly.
>>
>> Did we play the same game? Part of the fun of the game was spotting the
>> guy. I saw him at least 7 times. Others saw him more.
>
> You saw him a few times but most of them from much farther off than in HL.

that depends on where you were at. by the time i'd been through the game 3
times, i realized he was in EvERY section you played. You'd see him on
monitors too, and talking with others. Some of whom you'd be talking with
soon. The old git sure gets around.
McG.
>
> --
> Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 10:53:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> Spake Unto All:

>> you only have more than one (usually exactly two) route (which doesn't
>> affect story) between the cutscenes to give an illusion of choice.
>
>This would be fine then wouldn't it?

I would tend to think so, yes. But then I like strong stories &
linearity.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 9:18:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:39:58 -0700, Werner Spahl wrote
(in article <Pine.LNX.4.58.0508291432260.17719@localhost>):

> This would be fine then wouldn't it? We'll get our great story and still
> some choices or at least the illusion of them, which also could provide
> different means to tackle situations with the result of added gameplay.
> IMHO this is much better than e.g. HL2, where paths confined by fences
> and walls all the time, scattered the illusion of a real world for me!

No , that would NOT be fine. You've ignored the other half (or more) of a
great linear game - level design. The game designers knew exactly
how/.when/where you would be approaching everything from, and orchestrated
every piece of the game around that knowledge. That's not possible in a
non-linear game.

It's just silly to declare that non-linear is always better. Your taste is to
non-linear which is fine. But for people who love those finely tuned
set-pieces (apparently a lot of people, judging by HL and HL2 sales and
player response) making it non-linear would seriously downgrade the
experience.
!