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Start8

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February 18, 2013 6:11:57 AM

This is not meant to be an anti W8 rant, I just want to try and understand the mentality behind buying a product that clearly does not work how you want it to and then spend more, however small the amount to make it work like a product that you probably already have ? Granted not everyone is upgrading from W7 but I would think many are.

Wouldn't it be better to boycott the product completely and add financial weight to the argument that Microsoft should be listening to the consumer as they did with the development of W7 and give us the experience that most of us actually want.

I could understand it if W8 was a noticeably better OS that came with worthwhile changes. All I see are changes that benefit Microsoft.

Maybe I have it wrong and there are worthwhile reasons ?

So could I ask people to contribute and discuss why exactly have they upgraded ?are they using Start8 ? and if you think I'm wide of the mark please explain why.

Mactronix :)  [Edit for me not noticing the bad spellchecker correction]

More about : start8

a b * Windows 8
February 18, 2013 6:25:47 AM

Windows 8 was designed for tablets in mind, the fact they added metro for desktop as a mandatory feature is sad.

If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.

Boycotting never works except under extreme conditions.

You won't feel or see anything different when using 8 or 7, except for faster start-up, improved task manager, folder ribbon, (and metro which can be fix).

I use Windows 8 and Start8, it works fantastic, no incompatibilities, everything works perfect, I don't see metro and charms, so I am happy with it. If anyone says Windows 8 is garbage, they are full of crap, only reason to hate 8 is because of metro which is ridiculous for a desktop, and unproductive. Windows 8 does have a few nice small touches that are nice to it.
a b * Windows 8
February 18, 2013 6:33:56 AM

you see that some big names at microsoft will take a hit for not listing to people about the start button and tiles. same issue happened with windows 7 and xp. the bread and butter of the os is not home users but biz users. there still a lot of biz that still have xp running as there main systems. windows 8 is not going to get on most of company pc...due to the training cost of retraing everyone on the new os.
Related resources
February 18, 2013 8:07:42 AM

slightly better battery life and video playback is a massive win on my e-450 based netbook.
February 18, 2013 11:05:58 AM

edogawa said:
Windows 8 was designed for tablets in mind, the fact they added metro for desktop as a mandatory feature is sad.

If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.

Boycotting never works except under extreme conditions.

You won't feel or see anything different when using 8 or 7, except for faster start-up, improved task manager, folder ribbon, (and metro which can be fix).

I use Windows 8 and Start8, it works fantastic, no incompatibilities, everything works perfect, I don't see metro and charms, so I am happy with it. If anyone says Windows 8 is garbage, they are full of crap, only reason to hate 8 is because of metro which is ridiculous for a desktop, and unproductive. Windows 8 does have a few nice small touches that are nice to it.



Can you explain your reasoning here please.

Quote:
If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.


Why would you get an OS that fundamentally works in a way you don't want it to when its basically not that much different/better than W7, which does work how most people want it to.

I understand what W8 is and why it was designed how it was.What I don't understand, as I said is why are the people who are buying it, buying it and then adding Start8 to make it work like W7.

Some people will just want it because its the latest OS and they have to have the latest of whatever it is even if it is rubbish.

What is it that swings the decision to W8 over W7 for those that are making an informed or not decision on which one to get ?

Mactronix :) 


February 18, 2013 11:17:35 AM

smorizio said:
you see that some big names at microsoft will take a hit for not listing to people about the start button and tiles. same issue happened with windows 7 and xp. the bread and butter of the os is not home users but biz users. there still a lot of biz that still have xp running as there main systems. windows 8 is not going to get on most of company pc...due to the training cost of retraing everyone on the new os.



W7 was brilliant in terms of MS actually listening to feedback from the RC versions, that's what makes W8 such a disappointment to a lot of people I talk to.
The preview versions of W8 had if anything an even bigger user base because of how well they handled the W7 RC development, people were enthusiastic and were expecting the same with W8.

Once it became clear that MS had a direction they were going in and were not interested at all in what the users wanted, well I personally think its only natural to expect a bit of a backlash.

Likewise with the business sector, anyone who knows anything about business knows that there is not a company in the world that is going to upgrade its systems to a version that means many many man hours are going to be lost in retraining and getting up to speed. MS must know this so one can only assume that they don't really have any concern for business needs either.

I have worked with a company that has made many hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of savings just by buying faster computers. The extra work achieved far outweighed the outlay, so I do very much know what I am talking about here.

Mactronix :) 
February 18, 2013 11:27:44 AM

The vast majority of Windows 8 users out there are on brand new machines. Apart from those who may not have purchased the machines themselves, and so had no influence over the OS, have you tried to find a Windows 7 machine recently? ALL of them are end of line of refurbs. Microsoft has removed new Windows 7 licenses from the PC supply chain. Nothing like choice, is there?
February 18, 2013 11:44:55 AM

stephenkendrick said:
The vast majority of Windows 8 users out there are on brand new machines. Apart from those who may not have purchased the machines themselves, and so had no influence over the OS, have you tried to find a Windows 7 machine recently? ALL of them are end of line of refurbs. Microsoft has removed new Windows 7 licenses from the PC supply chain. Nothing like choice, is there?


I don't know where in the world you are friend but here in the UK its not hard to find machines from office desktop up to hardcore gamer machines still running W7.
Laptops are harder but desktop PC's are not an issue.

Mactronix :) 
February 18, 2013 10:33:01 PM

I didn't find Windows 8 unproductive at all. The fact that it forced me to start using the windows key and keyboard shortcuts actually improved my productivity.

Nonetheless, I bought Start8 and a few other Stardock offerings and now I have a pretty slick setup. I use my Windows 8 start menu for some things and the traditional one for others.

Here are some screenshots. My desktop has two start buttons. The white is traditional, the blue is for metro. My windows key goes to metro.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

Sorry, it shrinks the images from 1920x1080 to that. Oh well, you get the idea.
February 19, 2013 12:50:15 AM

I use Start8 but IObit Start Menu 8 is a comparable & free application.
a b * Windows 8
February 19, 2013 1:14:45 AM

mactronix said:
Can you explain your reasoning here please.

Quote:
If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.



Why would you get an OS that fundamentally works in a way you don't want it to when its basically not that much different/better than W7, which does work how most people want it to.

I understand what W8 is and why it was designed how it was.What I don't understand, as I said is why are the people who are buying it, buying it and then adding Start8 to make it work like W7.

Some people will just want it because its the latest OS and they have to have the latest of whatever it is even if it is rubbish.

What is it that swings the decision to W8 over W7 for those that are making an informed or not decision on which one to get ?

Mactronix :) 





It's a technically improved under the hood, and has several small nice features, why would not buy it. You act as if it's a totally different operating system. It's an improved version of Windows with a different coat of paint that we don't like.

A few more dollars for Windows 8 with Start8 over 7 is a good deal:

New task manager, improved boot times, new ways to fix your PC with a Windows reset, ARM support, secure boot, compatibility with practically everything(over 100 things of mine work fine on Windows 8 including all my games old and new), native support for USB 3.0, live USB versions of Windows, file explorer ribbon interface which I like a lot, etc.

Once you install start8 or classic shell you're good to go. I got Windows for 40 bucks release day then bought Start8, I've not had a single crash or issue(excluding a hardware component gone bad). The ONLY real negative to Windows 8 is metro, if they did not remove the start menu it would have received positive feedback.
February 19, 2013 1:17:47 AM

I have Windows Vista Ultimate on my desktop and Windows 7 on my laptop. I want to upgrade to a newer OS with Trim support for my desktop. I look both, and at first wanted Win 7 Ultimate, but after some research i think Windows 8 Pro System Builder x64 will be a better choice. Windows 8 has an application called "File History", it is an equivalent to Macintosh Time Machine, incremental back-ups of your files. That will be the deal breaker for me. Also it has native support for USB 3.0, faster booting, native DX11.1 support, ramped-up task manager, trim support. Negatives, for me would be no start button, more steps to turn off the pc, metro interface, pay extra for media center, no blue-ray support, and if i recall correctly the Microsoft store app could be invasive toward my privacy.
February 19, 2013 7:32:15 AM

jrgray93 said:
I didn't find Windows 8 unproductive at all. The fact that it forced me to start using the windows key and keyboard shortcuts actually improved my productivity.

Nonetheless, I bought Start8 and a few other Stardock offerings and now I have a pretty slick setup. I use my Windows 8 start menu for some things and the traditional one for others.

Here are some screenshots. My desktop has two start buttons. The white is traditional, the blue is for metro. My windows key goes to metro.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

Sorry, it shrinks the images from 1920x1080 to that. Oh well, you get the idea.



I would venture to say that you don't find it unproductive now. Some people are obviously going to adapt better than others but I really don't think that the first time you sat in front of a W8 PC your productivity increased. Did it ?

While we are discussing short cut keys I would like to state that personally I don't think they are any faster.
This extract Kinda says it all really



Quote:
We’ve done a cool $50 million of R & D on the Apple Human Interface. We discovered, among other things, two pertinent facts:

Test subjects consistently report that keyboarding is faster than mousing.
The stopwatch consistently proves mousing is faster than keyboarding.
This contradiction between user-experience and reality apparently forms the basis for many user/developers’ belief that the keyboard is faster.


Source: http://www.asktog.com/

Mactronix :) 
February 19, 2013 8:09:45 AM

@ edogawa

Please. I'm not acting like anything, just asking questions to get to the meat of the reasons people have for going W8.

You have mentioned some benefits that you see as worthwhile and I like a couple of then as well, however jupiter optimus maximus has listed a few bad points with which I agree as well.

The main wonder here is why on earth did Microsoft fully knowing that the UI issue was a very big one for an awful lot of people then chose to gear its advertising towards pushing that and not showing the beneficial things the new OS can do.

Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Start8 patched out in the first release of Blue.

Again please remember this isn't W8 bashing or W7 vs W8. I'm just curious as to what about W8 has made people choose it over W7, and you cant get to the answer without asking certain questions that will come across as a little anti.I fully appreciate that but that's not what this is about.

Mactronix. :) 
February 19, 2013 11:06:56 AM

I guess it depends on who is doing the typing with the keyboard shortcuts. I can do upwards of 120 words per minute, so I can find my key bindings VERY quickly.

And yes, it took some time to get used to 8. Unlike 7, it requires each user to customize their layout to best suit their needs. Plus I had to learn the shortcuts. A learning period is to be expected with anything new.

Even after enjoying Windows 8 to begin with, and making it more to my liking with ObjectDesktop, I hotkeyed some 8 shortcuts to the extra keys on my Razer keyboard. So now everything is perfect for me.

Nonetheless, bare-bones 8 would have been just fine. I enjoyed it that way. I won't argue that eliminating the old start menu entirely was stupid. It was. They should have at least given us customization options and the ability to use both, as I do with Start8.
a b * Windows 8
March 13, 2013 3:07:44 PM

mactronix said:
@ edogawa

Please. I'm not acting like anything, just asking questions to get to the meat of the reasons people have for going W8.

You have mentioned some benefits that you see as worthwhile and I like a couple of then as well, however jupiter optimus maximus has listed a few bad points with which I agree as well.

The main wonder here is why on earth did Microsoft fully knowing that the UI issue was a very big one for an awful lot of people then chose to gear its advertising towards pushing that and not showing the beneficial things the new OS can do.

Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Start8 patched out in the first release of Blue.

Again please remember this isn't W8 bashing or W7 vs W8. I'm just curious as to what about W8 has made people choose it over W7, and you cant get to the answer without asking certain questions that will come across as a little anti.I fully appreciate that but that's not what this is about.

Mactronix. :) 


Sorry if I seemed to talk in a way you found offensive.

Anyways, jupiter optimus maximus negative points are invalid with Start8.

no start button - *Start8 Fixed it*
more steps to turn off the pc -*Start8 Fixed it*
metro interface, pay extra for media center -*Useless unless you want to use it for media center/TV tuner*
no blue-ray support -*very small negative, you can download cyber-link or other free programs to fix this.*
and if i recall correctly the Microsoft store app could be invasive toward my privacy -*Hardly*

Once you install Start8, there is zero reason for using 7 again.
March 25, 2013 1:11:31 PM

jrgray93 said:
I didn't find Windows 8 unproductive at all. The fact that it forced me to start using the windows key and keyboard shortcuts actually improved my productivity.

Nonetheless, I bought Start8 and a few other Stardock offerings and now I have a pretty slick setup. I use my Windows 8 start menu for some things and the traditional one for others.

Here are some screenshots. My desktop has two start buttons. The white is traditional, the blue is for metro. My windows key goes to metro.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

Sorry, it shrinks the images from 1920x1080 to that. Oh well, you get the idea.


What monitor is that, it may just be the picture but that looks great!

April 4, 2013 6:13:02 PM

SeeYaInAwell said:
jrgray93 said:
I didn't find Windows 8 unproductive at all. The fact that it forced me to start using the windows key and keyboard shortcuts actually improved my productivity.

Nonetheless, I bought Start8 and a few other Stardock offerings and now I have a pretty slick setup. I use my Windows 8 start menu for some things and the traditional one for others.

Here are some screenshots. My desktop has two start buttons. The white is traditional, the blue is for metro. My windows key goes to metro.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

Sorry, it shrinks the images from 1920x1080 to that. Oh well, you get the idea.


What monitor is that, it may just be the picture but that looks great!



You wouldn't be able to see my monitor, just the resolution of 1920x1080. But I use this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QO84/ref=olp_pro...
April 5, 2013 12:40:05 AM

SeeYaInAwell said:
jrgray93 said:
I didn't find Windows 8 unproductive at all. The fact that it forced me to start using the windows key and keyboard shortcuts actually improved my productivity.

Nonetheless, I bought Start8 and a few other Stardock offerings and now I have a pretty slick setup. I use my Windows 8 start menu for some things and the traditional one for others.

Here are some screenshots. My desktop has two start buttons. The white is traditional, the blue is for metro. My windows key goes to metro.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/ugotpwnzored/g...

Sorry, it shrinks the images from 1920x1080 to that. Oh well, you get the idea.


What monitor is that, it may just be the picture but that looks great!



Thanks, that made me laugh. But, um.....it looks great because your viewing it from YOUR monitor. :p  as it is just a screenshot, you cant tell the image quality from his monitor. :) 
April 5, 2013 4:37:06 AM

Windows 8 has been made in might of Touch screen monitors and Touch laptops.
June 18, 2013 7:01:13 AM

mactronix said:
edogawa said:
Windows 8 was designed for tablets in mind, the fact they added metro for desktop as a mandatory feature is sad.

If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.

Boycotting never works except under extreme conditions.

You won't feel or see anything different when using 8 or 7, except for faster start-up, improved task manager, folder ribbon, (and metro which can be fix).

I use Windows 8 and Start8, it works fantastic, no incompatibilities, everything works perfect, I don't see metro and charms, so I am happy with it. If anyone says Windows 8 is garbage, they are full of crap, only reason to hate 8 is because of metro which is ridiculous for a desktop, and unproductive. Windows 8 does have a few nice small touches that are nice to it.



Can you explain your reasoning here please.

Quote:
If you need to purchase a new operating system, there is no reason to not get Windows 8 then grab Start8 or Classic Shell.

If you have Windows 7 already, that will be fine, no reason to upgrade from Windows 7 to 8; unless you need a new operating system of course.


Why would you get an OS that fundamentally works in a way you don't want it to when its basically not that much different/better than W7, which does work how most people want it to.

I understand what W8 is and why it was designed how it was.What I don't understand, as I said is why are the people who are buying it, buying it and then adding Start8 to make it work like W7.

Some people will just want it because its the latest OS and they have to have the latest of whatever it is even if it is rubbish.

What is it that swings the decision to W8 over W7 for those that are making an informed or not decision on which one to get ?

Mactronix :) 




WIN8 is a safer OS.
Who cares about the User Interface really.
(Insofar as it may or may not contribute to the robust-ness of the new OS.)

MS goes for feedback in a very big way (I remember our team setting up a camera in a small room where our new network OS installation bits were being 'User-tested' - back in the mid-80s).
It is silly to think about this on such a small scale as most of these remark'ers.

To say that this OS 'clearly doesn't work', misses the point of genuine good-hearted attempts to make work in automation more satisfying to everyone without making screwed up automatons out of us. {;-), but true.}

I vote for the current progress of Metro, and for supporting its progression to wherever its going.


So far for me, 'two-fisted Windows' operations is starting to mean something different now (i.e., swipe and type).
Respectfully,
dca
!