Learnt a very valuable PC lesson today

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
looks harmless..

I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
proceeded to open the said page.

Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..

Lesson learnt......
32 answers Last reply
More about learnt valuable lesson today
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Kissing Lettuce <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote:
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......

    You will be using another browser?

    Louis
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......
    >
    >


    The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go
    is here:

    http://www.gamecopyworld.com/
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    news:43184A31.C84A63B9@internode.on.net...
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......
    >
    >
    www.gamecopyworld.com is the first place to look and failing that
    www.gameburnworld.com or
    www.megagames.com - nowhere else.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Louis Zwager <louis@het.net> schreef in artikel
    <431854d5$0$11062$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...
    <cut>
    > > Lesson learnt......
    >
    > You will be using another browser?
    >
    > Louis
    >

    Better to use another operating system ^_^
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:08:04 GMT, Smart Feet <smartfeet@yourshoes.com>
    wrote:


    >
    >The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go
    >is here:
    >
    >http://www.gamecopyworld.com/

    And here: www.megagames.com
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Worker wrote:
    > Louis Zwager <louis@het.net> schreef in artikel
    > <431854d5$0$11062$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...
    > <cut>
    >
    >>>Lesson learnt......
    >>
    >>You will be using another browser?
    >>
    >>Louis
    >>
    >
    >
    > Better to use another operating system ^_^

    Why?
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thusly Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> Spake Unto All:


    >>>You will be using another browser?
    >>
    >> Better to use another operating system ^_^
    >
    >Why?

    Because you don't want to run commercial software, or be able to use
    that USB memory stick you just bought, but you DO want to be safe from
    mail viruses.

    Well, AFAI can see anyway.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Mean_Chlorine wrote:

    > Because you don't want to run commercial software,

    Wine exists. http://appdb.winehq.org/

    > or be able to use that USB memory stick you just bought,

    Don't by Windows-only hardware.

    Dennis
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Worker" <o.h.d.dors@kpn.com> wrote in message
    news:01c5afc6$1746aba0$e7e41cac@RT0501201138...
    >
    >
    > Louis Zwager <louis@het.net> schreef in artikel
    > <431854d5$0$11062$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...
    > <cut>
    >> > Lesson learnt......
    >>
    >> You will be using another browser?
    >>
    >> Louis
    >>
    >
    > Better to use another operating system ^_^

    Right, then he won't be needing those games! :)
    McG.
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Smart Feet" <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> wrote in message
    news:EN_Re.62975$ja7.5798@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
    > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >> That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    >> looks harmless..
    >>
    >> I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    >> Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    >> proceeded to open the said page.
    >>
    >> Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    >> spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >>
    >> Lesson learnt......
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go is
    > here:
    >
    > http://www.gamecopyworld.com/

    a lot of their hacks have been pulled...
    McG.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    x-no-archive: yes

    Kissing Lettuce wrote:

    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives

    unfortunately you only learn the hard way and for the wrong
    reasons...
    if shouldn't be that you regret it for getting lots of virus
    in your computer but rather cause it damages pc games
    cracks damage pc games!
    if you love pc games protect and defend them!
    for what i know you are not CRIPPLED to not be able to put a
    simple cd in a drive before using software
    act like a true pc gamer if you want to be respected as one!
    long live pc games crack free!

    --
    post made in a steam-free computer
    i said "NO" to valve and steam
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......

    Two lessons actually:

    (1) Use Firefox.
    (2) Deus Ex doesn't NEED a crack, just open the System\DeusEx.ini file
    and change the "CdPath=" variable to C:\DeusEx or wherever the game is
    installed. Quite simple.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Dennis Schamne wrote:
    > Don't by Windows-only hardware.
    >
    > Dennis

    That can be a problem. If you've already got a nice computer outfited
    with what you want, and Linux has some problems with certain components
    (but Windows doesn't), are you supposed to just throw it all away and
    buy different hardware for the sake of running Linux perfectly?
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    news:43184A31.C84A63B9@internode.on.net...
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......
    >
    >

    Try here for Deus Ex: (from gamefix.com)
    http://66.79.179.19/deus_ex.htm

    For NOLF 2, go to:
    http://www.gamecopyworld.com
    once there, click the small [index] link for alphabetically listed links.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: Kissing Lettuce <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> in
    43184A31.C84A63B9@internode.on.net
    > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > looks harmless..
    >
    > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > proceeded to open the said page.
    >
    > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >
    > Lesson learnt......

    gamecopyworld.com is the correct answerfor nocd cracks

    --
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.

    Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Dennis Schamne wrote:

    > Mean_Chlorine wrote:
    >
    > > Because you don't want to run commercial software,
    >
    > Wine exists. http://appdb.winehq.org/
    >
    > > or be able to use that USB memory stick you just bought,
    >
    > Don't by Windows-only hardware.
    >
    > Dennis


    And apart from a Mac what else would you
    recommend that is NOT WINDOWS????/
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    McGrandpa wrote:

    > "Smart Feet" <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> wrote in message
    > news:EN_Re.62975$ja7.5798@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
    > > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    > >> That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > >> looks harmless..
    > >>
    > >> I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > >> Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > >> proceeded to open the said page.
    > >>
    > >> Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > >> spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    > >>
    > >> Lesson learnt......
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go is
    > > here:
    > >
    > > http://www.gamecopyworld.com/
    >
    > a lot of their hacks have been pulled...
    > McG.


    I know I was there a whole 2 weeks ago and most of the
    hacks were indeed pulled ......

    Why do they get yanked? Hacking does not violate copyright
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    news:43196AA7.53838199@internode.on.net...
    > McGrandpa wrote:
    >
    >> "Smart Feet" <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> wrote in message
    >> news:EN_Re.62975$ja7.5798@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
    >> > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >> >> That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    >> >> looks harmless..
    >> >>
    >> >> I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    >> >> Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    >> >> proceeded to open the said page.
    >> >>
    >> >> Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    >> >> spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    >> >>
    >> >> Lesson learnt......
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go
    >> > is
    >> > here:
    >> >
    >> > http://www.gamecopyworld.com/
    >>
    >> a lot of their hacks have been pulled...
    >> McG.
    >
    >
    >
    > I know I was there a whole 2 weeks ago and most of the
    > hacks were indeed pulled ......
    >
    > Why do they get yanked? Hacking does not violate copyright
    >
    >
    >

    Most of the EULA's say you cannot tamper with the code, as in modify it to
    work in some way the owner of the property did not intend. On another note,
    some of the things I went looking for became obsolete. Later patches from
    the developer removed the CD check.
    McG.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Sleepy wrote:

    > "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    > news:43184A31.C84A63B9@internode.on.net...
    > > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > > looks harmless..
    > >
    > > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > > proceeded to open the said page.
    > >
    > > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    > >
    > > Lesson learnt......
    > >
    > >
    > www.gamecopyworld.com is the first place to look and failing that
    > www.gameburnworld.com or
    > www.megagames.com - nowhere else.


    I hope these places are safe
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Kissing Lettuce wrote:

    > And apart from a Mac what else would you
    > recommend that is NOT WINDOWS????/

    Did you just discover computers yesterday? Linux of course!

    Jesus.
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    GFree wrote:

    > That can be a problem. If you've already got a nice computer outfited
    > with what you want, and Linux has some problems with certain components
    > (but Windows doesn't), are you supposed to just throw it all away and
    > buy different hardware for the sake of running Linux perfectly?

    Why throw it _all_ away when you are able to replace only the bad hardware
    with alternatives?

    Dennis
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Dennis Schamne wrote:
    > GFree wrote:
    >
    >
    >>That can be a problem. If you've already got a nice computer outfited
    >>with what you want, and Linux has some problems with certain components
    >>(but Windows doesn't), are you supposed to just throw it all away and
    >>buy different hardware for the sake of running Linux perfectly?
    >
    >
    > Why throw it _all_ away when you are able to replace only the bad hardware
    > with alternatives?
    >
    > Dennis

    "Bad" hardware in this case means hardware that works fine in Windows,
    but not in Linux. I know it's not the fault of Linux itself and rather
    the manufacturers for not writing drivers for the hardware, but if the
    hardware works just fine in Windows, are you still supposed to just
    throw it away?

    I guess you could always sell it and get some money back. Fair trade.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    GFree wrote:

    > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >
    > > And apart from a Mac what else would you
    > > recommend that is NOT WINDOWS????/
    >
    > Did you just discover computers yesterday? Linux of course!
    >
    > Jesus.


    I know about Linux but that's not really mainstream is it?
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    McGrandpa wrote:

    > "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    > news:43196AA7.53838199@internode.on.net...
    > > McGrandpa wrote:
    > >
    > >> "Smart Feet" <smartfeet@yourshoes.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:EN_Re.62975$ja7.5798@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
    > >> > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    > >> >> That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > >> >> looks harmless..
    > >> >>
    > >> >> I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > >> >> Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > >> >> proceeded to open the said page.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > >> >> spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Lesson learnt......
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > The only lesson you need to learn is that the only place you need to go
    > >> > is
    > >> > here:
    > >> >
    > >> > http://www.gamecopyworld.com/
    > >>
    > >> a lot of their hacks have been pulled...
    > >> McG.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I know I was there a whole 2 weeks ago and most of the
    > > hacks were indeed pulled ......
    > >
    > > Why do they get yanked? Hacking does not violate copyright
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Most of the EULA's say you cannot tamper with the code, as in modify it to
    > work in some way the owner of the property did not intend. On another note,
    > some of the things I went looking for became obsolete. Later patches from
    > the developer removed the CD check.
    > McG.


    Oh ok I didn't see removing CD checking as an outright violation since
    you're not really altering the programs core behaviour....

    I wonder what Steam Killer thinks of this?
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Kissing Lettuce"
    snip old stuff
    >
    >
    >
    > Oh ok I didn't see removing CD checking as an outright violation since
    > you're not really altering the programs core behaviour....
    >
    > I wonder what Steam Killer thinks of this?
    >
    >
    >
    Well, some months ago in a.g.h-l, he came across as if he felt doing that
    was criminal and deplorable. That was before most of that erstwhile ng
    populace had plonked him :)
    McG.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thusly "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

    >Well, some months ago in a.g.h-l, he came across as if he felt doing that
    >was criminal and deplorable. That was before most of that erstwhile ng
    >populace had plonked him :)
    >McG.

    Considering that it should be obvious to everyone that steamkiller aka
    difool aka terry aka sayNO2steam is mentally ill - why the hell don't
    the populace in THIS newsgroup plonk him?

    Half the posts in the ng are in reply to a psychotic who doesn't even
    reply, or, if he does, only to rant and deny what he's said.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:jillh1dbp4lsa2jiqee7h163mhakumojk7@4ax.com...
    > Thusly "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> Spake Unto All:
    >
    >>Well, some months ago in a.g.h-l, he came across as if he felt doing that
    >>was criminal and deplorable. That was before most of that erstwhile ng
    >>populace had plonked him :)
    >>McG.
    >
    > Considering that it should be obvious to everyone that steamkiller aka
    > difool aka terry aka sayNO2steam is mentally ill - why the hell don't
    > the populace in THIS newsgroup plonk him?
    >
    > Half the posts in the ng are in reply to a psychotic who doesn't even
    > reply, or, if he does, only to rant and deny what he's said.
    >
    >

    Dunno. I do see the occasional lucid comment by him. He appears to
    exhibit a spore or two of common sense when confronted with physical
    insurmountable fact. Like, it will take a real long time to download a
    file of several hundred megs on dialup. But some folks in here actually
    seem to like him.
    If a person wants to talk with me, fine. If a person wants to bait and bash
    me, then it's my turn when they're done.
    I don't care what his/her name is; the early IP matches the one of the
    store owner/worker that posted the floor display full of HL2 retail boxes a
    few days before HL2 release. THEN on finding that more game units were
    sold through STEAM in the first day than through retail outlets in the first
    WEEK...that person has not let up bashing Steam AND people who use Steam.
    His original rant actually had merit. Steam, at the time for cause of the
    conflict with Vivendi, cut out ALL the middle men and sold/delivered
    straight from developer to consumer. Bypassing his shop of course. He
    didn't want to so much as even talk about alternative distribution; because
    there now exists an alternative path for developers and consumers than
    traditional retail channels. Even if a path were made for retailers, it
    would not eliminate the direct path to consumers Steam makes. It doesn't
    matter to him a whitt that buying online from a chain store like EB Games
    and GameStop does exactly the same thing to HIM that Steam does.
    Basically, he resents the 'changing of the guard'. I haven't seen any post
    anywhere yet where he discusses the issue with reason.
    McG.
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    KCB wrote:

    > "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
    > news:43184A31.C84A63B9@internode.on.net...
    > > That one must never click wildly on a webpage just because it
    > > looks harmless..
    > >
    > > I was searching for a No CD crack for Deus Ex and No One Lives
    > > Forever 2. I found what looked like a legitimate page for it and
    > > proceeded to open the said page.
    > >
    > > Bang I had no less then 13 warning messages pop up telling me about
    > > spyware threats and DyFuca downloader programs..
    > >
    > > Lesson learnt......
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Try here for Deus Ex: (from gamefix.com)
    > http://66.79.179.19/deus_ex.htm
    >
    > For NOLF 2, go to:
    > http://www.gamecopyworld.com
    > once there, click the small [index] link for alphabetically listed links.


    Ta. Thankyou
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    > I know about Linux but that's not really mainstream is it?

    Depends. If you want to limit your computing experience to "mainstream"
    software, then avoid Linux. Obviously it's hard to force people
    unfamiliar with the operating system to start using it, but just because
    it's not mainstream, doesn't mean it's not a worthy alternative to Windows.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    "GFree" <neon@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:431aaef4$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
    > Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >> I know about Linux but that's not really mainstream is it?
    >
    > Depends. If you want to limit your computing experience to "mainstream"
    > software, then avoid Linux. Obviously it's hard to force people unfamiliar
    > with the operating system to start using it, but just because it's not
    > mainstream, doesn't mean it's not a worthy alternative to Windows.

    It appears that there will always be a bit of a problem with the 'free'
    distributions of linux and *drivers*. However, the old axiom 'you get what
    you pay for!' stands out in this scenario. I just bought a second copy of
    XP Pro for another rig and it still cost just as much as the first copy.
    BUT, I can be sure that i will have all the peripherals i use ready and
    usable when i get to the desktop.
    With the 'subscribed' versions of (for instance) Mandrake Linux and Redhat
    Linux, I will also have a fair level of driver support. But not very much
    with the free downloads.

    I'll be trying out the 64bit version of Fedora as soon as I can get it
    downloaded and the ISO's on cd's. Hmm, wonder if I can get a bootable DvD
    iso? Heh! that 64bit version is 5 cd's.

    If you're used to doing things in WIndows, like fiddling with your hardware
    drivers, then it will be a bit different and a bit more difficult in any
    distro of Linux I've seen. But for the novice to mid level type, no more
    difficult than setting up a CD drive or sound card in DOS. :)
    Also, some folks just don't like the look and feel of Linux.

    If I like what I see in this Redhat distro, then I'll probably buy the full
    version.
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Thusly GFree <neon@gmail.com> Spake Unto All:

    >Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >> I know about Linux but that's not really mainstream is it?
    >
    >Depends. If you want to limit your computing experience to "mainstream"
    >software, then avoid Linux.

    It's a decent system, but unless you can a) get your employer to pay
    for a two-week intensive course on basic usage and trouble shooting
    AND b) have several linux-guru friends, you c) should probably avoid
    it, instead of d) finding out the hard way what 'non-mainstream'
    really means.
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

    Mean_Chlorine wrote:
    > Thusly GFree <neon@gmail.com> Spake Unto All:
    >
    >
    >>Kissing Lettuce wrote:
    >>
    >>>I know about Linux but that's not really mainstream is it?
    >>
    >>Depends. If you want to limit your computing experience to "mainstream"
    >>software, then avoid Linux.
    >
    >
    > It's a decent system, but unless you can a) get your employer to pay
    > for a two-week intensive course on basic usage and trouble shooting
    > AND b) have several linux-guru friends, you c) should probably avoid
    > it, instead of d) finding out the hard way what 'non-mainstream'
    > really means.

    Somewhat beside the point. We are not talking about the work
    environment, at least not in this thread. There are several Usenet
    groups dedicated to people arguing about Linux, and it's probably best
    to leave the arguing there. :)

    Besides, if you know how to use Usenet in the first place, you probably
    have more incentive than normal to try new things (and hence learn), so
    running Linux in a home environment isn't entirely out of the question.
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