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HL2: Aftermath

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September 7, 2005 12:35:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I haven't read much on this group about Valve's upcoming "Episode" for HL2
called "Aftermath". In this months Computer Gaming World there's a well done
article interviewing Gabe and some of the other guys at Valve about the new
way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short
"Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release
the episodes much like a TV show, where the story advances a little at a
time. Then after say a year or so they plan on releasing HL3.
The other news is that Ritual is going to bring back "Sin" but their plan
is to release only small episodes from the start instead of releasing a new
boxed "Sin" game. I loved "Sin" back in the day. It was one of the buggiest
games to ever be release, but after all the patches it was a pretty solid
game. I really liked all the interactivity the game had. There was so many
things to check out and buttons to push, it really was something new and
exciting for it's time. The first episode is going to be prices at $15
according to the article.
The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on
paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say,
at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game.
HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only
downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up
over time. I'm not sure how well a game is going to do if it never ends.
But this will be a very interesting thing to keep an eye on because if it's
successful, it could start to change the way we look at gaming. If you can
get your hands on this months copy of CGW is really is an interesting
article. So what do you guys think about all this?

More about : hl2 aftermath

Anonymous
September 7, 2005 5:30:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

x-no-archive: yes

JLC wrote:

> So what do you guys think about all this?

half-life 3 will also be in episodes? very interesting
more changes valve is forcing pc gamers to get into

so sin episode is nothing more than a "test" for hl3...
now i get it

valve has the nerve to change whatever they want whenever
they want without asking anyone

what they already changed in pc games:
.. internet required to buy
.. credit card required to buy
.. internet required to install
.. internet required to play
.. internet needs to be broadband
.. no more cd-rom/dvd-rom
.. no more retail market
.. no more second hand market
.. no more individual patches

and what do the steam lovers reply to all this?
"yes master, we will obey and do whatever you want"

but valve hasn't finish and wants more changes... like:
.. no more full version games but only modular/episodes

now valve wants to end full version games ...my god
these guys don't stop! it's UNBELIEVABLE!
they want to change everything even the unthinkable which
is ending full version games!

and i predicted this
back last year i said valve would try and force a modular
model in pc games so they can ask more money and it is
really happening
what will be next? obviously renting
you will no longer "pay once use forever" model for a game
but rather forced to pay monthly fees to be able to play
and it's renting ONLY
don't think valve will give you an alternative cause with
them there is never ALTERNATIVE
with valve there is no choice, they change and you are
forced to accept their own way

valve will not stop until they have changed everything in
pc games for their own advantage
and believe me RENTING will be next after episodic content

and btw the sin episodes price is not 15 but rather 20 so
that will inflate prices in pc games at least 4 times

you remember when last year riddick one of your favorite
games had this price 19.99 just a couple of months after
its release, yes we had a high quality RETAIL game FULL
VERSION just released for 19.99
so valve wants now to sell 6 hour episodes for the price
of a full retail version
is this any kind of IMPROVEMENT? obviously not! this is a
complete REGRESSION in pc games

so we now know why all this, why steam, why episodes in
pc games, and next renting, its money money money and we
will be the ones paying for it

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 12:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

cripes I thought sin was the most inartistic and boring game, poorly
thought-out from a basis of no imagination whatsoever!

of course... no offense intended...

Alex
Related resources
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 2:35:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, JLC wrote:

> way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short
> "Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release
[snip]
> The other news is that Ritual is going to bring back "Sin" but their plan
> is to release only small episodes from the start instead of releasing a new

I think this shows that Valve and Ritual are well aware that people like
myself can't get much data from Steam without a broadband connection...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 8:41:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:

> Sleepy wrote:
> > I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
> > Steam.
>
> Yeah. It crashed and burnt.

Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ;) ...

Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 9:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>
>>Sleepy wrote:
>>
>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>Steam.
>>
>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>
>
> Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ;) ...
>
> Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>

or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.

Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.

Live with it.
September 7, 2005 9:18:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3o8elrF4p02qU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Werner Spahl wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>
>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>Steam.
>>>
>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>>
>>
>> Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ;) ...
>>
>> Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>>
>
> or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>
> Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>
> Live with it.

At $15 at least you don't get burned if it stinks - no more risking $50+ on
a game that you may not like.

On the other hand, Steam has too many user unfriendly faults to be *the*
delivery system of choice for me.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 12:50:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:18:18 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Werner Spahl wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>
>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>Steam.
>>>
>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>>
>>
>> Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ;) ...
>>
>> Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>>
>
>or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>
>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>

Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already.

In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.

>Live with it.

Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
medium. And regardless of platform, competitive retail sales of
hard-coded games will by far be the leading means of games
distribution for the forseeable future.

Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
unfortunate humans in The Matrix

John Lewis



- Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 2:22:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:35:16 -0700, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:

>I haven't read much on this group about Valve's upcoming "Episode" for HL2
>called "Aftermath". In this months Computer Gaming World there's a well done
>article interviewing Gabe and some of the other guys at Valve about the new
>way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short
>"Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release
>the episodes much like a TV show, where the story advances a little at a
>time. Then after say a year or so they plan on releasing HL3.

The rate of episode release seems rapid - there doesn't seem to be enough
time to verify the content and integrety of the map unless there's a
massive amount of resources developing the game. Even then, there's going
te be a high chance some map bug will slip through (disrupting whatever
plot or "puzzle" was in the way.)

> The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on
>paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say,
>at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game.
>HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only
>downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up
>over time. I'm not sure how well a game is going to do if it never ends.
>But this will be a very interesting thing to keep an eye on because if it's
>successful, it could start to change the way we look at gaming. If you can
>get your hands on this months copy of CGW is really is an interesting
>article. So what do you guys think about all this?

The alternative is the retail way of doing it. The base pack is ~$30, with
one or two expasions also being ~$30 each. There is one problem - good
luck trying to find a legit copy of the Quake 1/2/3 expansion packs.

This also generally relies on the gameplay content and/or stoaryline. The
instant users say the game is bad is the instant the experiment fails.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 5:25:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) once tried to test me with:

> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.

If a game has 30gb of data, it's going to cost $100 a copy. They'll have to
charge that much to pay for all the artists, musicians, sound-techs, etc.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
September 8, 2005 11:38:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96CACFDC4F3BBknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) once tried to test me with:
>
>> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
>> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
>> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
>> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
>> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
>> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
>
> If a game has 30gb of data, it's going to cost $100 a copy. They'll have
> to
> charge that much to pay for all the artists, musicians, sound-techs, etc.
>
> --
>
> Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
>

Unless much of that data is simply higher res textures, better quality
sounds etc?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 12:44:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:

> BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
> excuse for Steam) will be redundant.

History asked me to tell you to stop ignoring it.

Nick

--
#include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 5:21:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:

>>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>>
>
>Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
>old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already.

Well, I for one think he may well be right. That you personally don't
like what he's saying is of no consequence.

>In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
>price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
>on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
>copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
>excuse for Steam) will be redundant.

>Anyway, downloading and storing
>10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.

Downloading 10GB would take me a little over 2 hours. And I pay a flat
rate, so basically it becomes cheaper to me the more I download.
When I was a fledgling pirate back in the 80's, with a 2400 baud
modem, I'd routinely keep downloading over night, and I don't suppose
the pirate brats of today are less dedicated.
The number of people with 10MBit connections like mine will hardly
have decreased in 5 years either.

That said, you wouldn't have to download 10 GB. The content would be
streamed to you on demand. Yes, that works also for games, Guild Wars
(which in many ways is a very forward-looking title) can be played
like that.

And you wouldn't be long-term storing the whole game on your disk (or
on CD's). You COULD, I suppose, but why should you? You've got an
account, just download install the client again and play.

Online authentication systems also are the only ones in existence
which actually lets you control piracy. There are no pirates playing
Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
February), or Everquest 2. No disk based copy protection has ever
managed to hold off pirates from cracking a triple-A title for more
than a few days.

>Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
>be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
>medium.

Famous Last Words.
Well, we'll know in five years.

There is no intrinsic value in distribution on hard media, not for the
developer and not for the buyer. The things which keeps hard
distribution media around is 1) the continuing inability to verify
identity online at purchase, 2) that many/most are still on dial-up,
and 3) that people think they've actually bought the game, and feel
they've got more value for money, if they get a piece of worthless
plastic in their hands rather than just a download on their disk.

>Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
>unfortunate humans in The Matrix

What's with these insults? Are you incapable of rational discussion?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 5:51:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:18:18 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Werner Spahl wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>>Steam.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>>>
>>>
>>>Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>>>of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>>>sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>>>Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ;) ...
>>>
>>>Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>>>noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>>>
>>
>>or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>>
>>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>>
>
>
> Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
> old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already.
>

Wrong. I'm mainlining on online delivery systems of which Steam is but
one. Albeit a very good one.

> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any

And you'll be the first to whine that your DVD player doesnt support it.

> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
>

Not really. It drip feeds in all the time on a fixed price high
bandwisth link. Its easy.

>
>>Live with it.
>
>
> Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
> be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
> medium. And regardless of platform, competitive retail sales of

You're a luddite. And no it wont.

> hard-coded games will by far be the leading means of games
> distribution for the forseeable future.

hard-coded? Whats that supposed to mean?

>
> Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
> unfortunate humans in The Matrix
>
> John Lewis
>

LOL. Still beating the same drum.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:06:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>There are no pirates playing
> Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
> still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
> February)

Really? How on earth does that work? Are they
recreations of the "real" servers?

--
-pm

http://oceanclub.blogspot.com

"I decree that history shall be rewritten. This time without any
punctuation so that it is just one sentence linked together by
the phrase 'And then what happened was...'"
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:58:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Sleepy <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> in
hPBTe.21251$2n6.5273@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> I know its not expensive to produce a game CD but to me its still
> vitally important to have a hard copy separate from my hard drive for
> reinstalls or possible hard drive failure. I wasnt belittling the
> value of the data
> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
> expense of producing
> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
> the consumer
> but they didnt.

if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens
if you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
--
Forty is the old age of youth, fifty is the youth of old age. - Victor
Hugo

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
September 8, 2005 8:58:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:431fe129$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> Quoth The Raven: Sleepy <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> in
> hPBTe.21251$2n6.5273@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>> I know its not expensive to produce a game CD but to me its still
>> vitally important to have a hard copy separate from my hard drive for
>> reinstalls or possible hard drive failure. I wasnt belittling the
>> value of the data
>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>> expense of producing
>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>> the consumer
>> but they didnt.
>
> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if
> you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another

Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I
have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of
producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to change
it to a download only system like Steam.

Trouble is - not enough people are prepared to think about a change and
whether its really a good thing. I'll give you an example - 20 years ago we
all used to get our milk from the milkman in glass bottles. We put out the
empties and he recycled them. The system worked and was environmentally
friendly. We changed to buying milk in plastic containers from supermarkets
(ignoring the fact we were putting milkman out of work) because it was
cheaper for us personally but now we're being asked to recycle the plastic
bottles because we're filling up the landfill sites and all those plastic
bottles take decades to degrade. There are plenty of examples of people
following progress for the sake of progress without thinking about and their
usual argument is - "its gonna happen so get used to it".
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:58:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Sleepy" <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> Spake Unto
All:

>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if
>> you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
>
>Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I
>have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of
>producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to change
>it to a download only system like Steam.

I've certainly lost disks. I remember Quake2 getting jammed in a CD
tray door, for instance.

However, you'd not be storing your programs on your harddisks, that's
a non-optimal hybrid approach. Much better (and safer for all
concerned) would be to access them through your account and stream
content on demand.

>friendly. We changed to buying milk in plastic containers from supermarkets
>(ignoring the fact we were putting milkman out of work) because it was
>cheaper for us personally but now we're being asked to recycle the plastic
>bottles because we're filling up the landfill sites and all those plastic
>bottles take decades to degrade.

Actually, they should be incinerated, not deposited, and then provide
a net environmental gain over transporting & washing glass bottles.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:58:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:21:56 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly "Sleepy" <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> Spake Unto
>All:
>
>>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if
>>> you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
>>
>>Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I
>>have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of
>>producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to change
>>it to a download only system like Steam.
>
>I've certainly lost disks. I remember Quake2 getting jammed in a CD
>tray door, for instance.
>
>However, you'd not be storing your programs on your harddisks, that's
>a non-optimal hybrid approach. Much better (and safer for all
>concerned) would be to access them through your account and stream
>content on demand.
>
>>friendly. We changed to buying milk in plastic containers from supermarkets
>>(ignoring the fact we were putting milkman out of work) because it was
>>cheaper for us personally but now we're being asked to recycle the plastic
>>bottles because we're filling up the landfill sites and all those plastic
>>bottles take decades to degrade.
>
>Actually, they should be incinerated, not deposited, and then provide
>a net environmental gain over transporting & washing glass bottles.
>

Really ?? Adding greenhouse gases and noxious sundry other
contaminants to the atmosphere does not seem like a net environmental
gain to me. Ask the people of New Orleans and Cozumel about the
consequences of a 2-3 degree rise in mean tropical sea temps over
the past 5 years.

John Lewis


- Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 10:22:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:35:16 -0700, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:

> The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on
>paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say,
>at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game.
>HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only
>downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up
>over time.

Yep. That is their only reason for "episode gaming", to try to make
gamers pay more for their games. Next step: pay-per-play or
pay-per-minute single-player games. I have my doubts whether episode
gaming will work for most games, though.

>But this will be a very interesting thing to keep an eye on because if it's
>successful, it could start to change the way we look at gaming.

In a way it is not quite a new thing. We've had expansion packs
before. "Episode gaming" just means there aren't really any main game
anymore, merely a series of smaller expansion packs.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 10:35:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:21:55 +0200, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Online authentication systems also are the only ones in existence
>which actually lets you control piracy.

Steam cracks don't exist after all?

>There are no pirates playing
>Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
>still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
>February), or Everquest 2. No disk based copy protection has ever
>managed to hold off pirates from cracking a triple-A title for more
>than a few days.

Nice try. Did you notice you mentioned only multiplayer games? Are you
really claiming Half-life 2 single-player was not cracked in a matter
of days?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 10:37:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:45 +1000, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>Quoth The Raven: Sleepy
>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>> expense of producing
>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>> the consumer
>> but they didnt.
>
>if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free.

As long as there is a place where you can download the game from. PC
game companies come and go. And no, most PC game companies do not
support their games after the company demise.

With disc based games, you can still install and play the game even if
the company is not around supporting it.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:22:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Paul Moloney" <paul_moloney@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>>There are no pirates playing
>> Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
>> still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
>> February)
>
>Really? How on earth does that work? Are they
>recreations of the "real" servers?

I don't play WoW and don't really know anything (nor care) about them.
My guess is that they're based on stolen source:
http://www.gameshout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30427

If you google you'll find much more, I even found a download link, but
surprisingly little hard info.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:22:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:

<milk cartons>
>>Actually, they should be incinerated, not deposited, and then provide
>>a net environmental gain over transporting & washing glass bottles.
>>
>
>Really ?? Adding greenhouse gases and noxious sundry other
>contaminants to the atmosphere does not seem like a net environmental
>gain to me.

Well, the thing is, you add more greenhouse gasses and sundry other
contaminants via transporting the glass bottles back & forth, heating
the water to wash them, and disposing of broken bottles.
Provided that the cartons are incinerated in a plant with good smoke
scrubbers, that's about the friendliest alternative there is.

> Ask the people of New Orleans and Cozumel about the
>consequences of a 2-3 degree rise in mean tropical sea temps over
>the past 5 years.

New Orleans frankly had it coming. It's been known that this *would*
happen for at least 15 years, there existed entire organisations
devoted to dealing with it - yet nothing was done. This disaster is
entirely man-made, and I don't mean through global warming, and
entirely avoidable.

Wrt temperature, I'm less concerned about a rise of a few degrees
(which, seen in historical perspective of a few million years, is a
_small_ fluctuation and taking place at a time when the Earth is the
coldest it's been in 500 million years) than the fact that the
increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide will significantly change the
pH of the sea.
This is a FAR more fundamental and far-reaching effect than a small
rise in temperature, though it may not for the moment seem that way to
people living in areas below sea level.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:28:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:22:43 GMT, riku <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:35:16 -0700, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on
>>paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say,
>>at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game.
>>HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only
>>downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up
>>over time.
>
>Yep. That is their only reason for "episode gaming", to try to make
>gamers pay more for their games. Next step: pay-per-play or
>pay-per-minute single-player games.

Already done with JFK Reloaded. You get 10 competition plays per purchase.
September 9, 2005 3:30:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"riku" <riku@none.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:o l11i198a6fpnqd2d1m558vkhp5t7f48tm@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:45 +1000, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Quoth The Raven: Sleepy
>>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>>> expense of producing
>>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>>> the consumer
>>> but they didnt.
>>
>>if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free.
>
> As long as there is a place where you can download the game from. PC
> game companies come and go. And no, most PC game companies do not
> support their games after the company demise.
>
> With disc based games, you can still install and play the game even if
> the company is not around supporting it.
>

On and on and on ad infinitum until what? What is it exactly you want or
hope to gain from these endless repetitive posts? I honestly want to
know...
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:37:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly riku <riku@none.invalid.com> Spake Unto All:

>>Online authentication systems also are the only ones in existence
>>which actually lets you control piracy.
>
>Steam cracks don't exist after all?

My mistake - should've said "online account systems". Games which
simply authenticate, like HL2 (or Windows XP for that matter) can be
cracked.

>>There are no pirates playing
>>Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
>>still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
>>February), or Everquest 2.

>Nice try. Did you notice you mentioned only multiplayer games? Are you
>really claiming Half-life 2 single-player was not cracked in a matter
>of days?

I only mentioned multiplayer games because they are so far the only
ones using account-based protection (with some special exceptions,
e.g. gambling games). There is nothing stopping single player games
from using this as well.
If steam has a fault (from a protection-from-piracy POV) it's that it
is a hybrid system which didn't go far enough.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
9ir0i1he8vq8ls7hlgmbd4muje3eo0ahoc@4ax.com
> Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:
>
> <milk cartons>
>>> Actually, they should be incinerated, not deposited, and then
>>> provide a net environmental gain over transporting & washing glass
>>> bottles.
>>>
>>
>> Really ?? Adding greenhouse gases and noxious sundry other
>> contaminants to the atmosphere does not seem like a net environmental
>> gain to me.
>
> Well, the thing is, you add more greenhouse gasses and sundry other
> contaminants via transporting the glass bottles back & forth, heating
> the water to wash them, and disposing of broken bottles.
> Provided that the cartons are incinerated in a plant with good smoke
> scrubbers, that's about the friendliest alternative there is.
>
>> Ask the people of New Orleans and Cozumel about the
>> consequences of a 2-3 degree rise in mean tropical sea temps over
>> the past 5 years.
>
> New Orleans frankly had it coming. It's been known that this *would*
> happen for at least 15 years, there existed entire organisations
> devoted to dealing with it - yet nothing was done. This disaster is
> entirely man-made, and I don't mean through global warming, and
> entirely avoidable.
>
> Wrt temperature, I'm less concerned about a rise of a few degrees
> (which, seen in historical perspective of a few million years, is a
> _small_ fluctuation and taking place at a time when the Earth is the
> coldest it's been in 500 million years) than the fact that the
> increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide will significantly change the
> pH of the sea.
> This is a FAR more fundamental and far-reaching effect than a small
> rise in temperature, though it may not for the moment seem that way to
> people living in areas below sea level.

the people of NO didn't have it coming, that comment puts you in a very
bad light. and it has been proven that a change of 4'c change in
temperature caused the extinction of hundreds of species and caused
forests to tun into deserts

--
Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:09:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:


>the people of NO didn't have it coming, that comment puts you in a very
>bad light.

No, but the city did. Like I said, the disaster was completely
avoidable, but wasn't avoided. Hopefully some political heads are
gonna roll, but I doubt it.

> and it has been proven that a change of 4'c change in
>temperature caused the extinction of hundreds of species and caused
>forests to tun into deserts

No, it hasn't.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:14:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: riku <riku@none.invalid.com> in
ol11i198a6fpnqd2d1m558vkhp5t7f48tm@4ax.com
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:45 +1000, "Highlandish"
> <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Quoth The Raven: Sleepy
>>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>>> expense of producing
>>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>>> the consumer
>>> but they didnt.
>>
>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free.
>
> As long as there is a place where you can download the game from. PC
> game companies come and go. And no, most PC game companies do not
> support their games after the company demise.
>
> With disc based games, you can still install and play the game even if
> the company is not around supporting it.

I am going to start believing that if valve does close down, someone
will always pick up and buy steam as a distribution system, because now
other games developers are using steam who don't have anything to do
with valve. steam has become its own entity. in the future it will
change hands, change names and its looks, but it will always serve the
games it started with and picks up along the way. steam will outlast
valve and half life 2

--
Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:14:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Quoth The Raven: riku <riku@none.invalid.com> in
>ol11i198a6fpnqd2d1m558vkhp5t7f48tm@4ax.com
>> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:45 +1000, "Highlandish"
>> <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoth The Raven: Sleepy
>>>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>>>> expense of producing
>>>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>>>> the consumer
>>>> but they didnt.
>>>
>>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free.
>>
>> As long as there is a place where you can download the game from. PC
>> game companies come and go. And no, most PC game companies do not
>> support their games after the company demise.
>>
>> With disc based games, you can still install and play the game even if
>> the company is not around supporting it.
>
>I am going to start believing that if valve does close down, someone
>will always pick up and buy steam as a distribution system, because now
>other games developers are using steam who don't have anything to do
>with valve. steam has become its own entity. in the future it will
>change hands, change names and its looks, but it will always serve the
>games it started with and picks up along the way. steam will outlast
>valve and half life 2

Why on earth would you assume that the survival of Steam indicates the
survival of Valve owned games that happen to be distributed/verified via
steam now?

Unless the rights to those games get sold along with Steam, there's
absolutely no guarantee they'll be supported at all, especially if the
company in question has a competing product and wants HL2 killed off.

Hell even if they don't - that's bandwidth costs for games they get no
revenue from at all, and I can't see any company footing the bill for
another company's games.

If Valve folded tomorrow and EA bought the rights to steam but not to
the games, you really think they'd absorb the costs of authenticating
someone else's games?
Would they even legally be allowed to without an agreement with whoever
bought the game rights?

If that agreement is not forthcoming, you can't play those games ever
again. Not without buying the NEW! SHINY! PLATINUM! SPECIAL EDITION!
no-steam version of HL2 from whoever bought the game rights.


The very fact that steam has become a separate entity and could easily
outlive and/or be decoupled from the games supported by it now should be
a concern.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 3:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Highlandish wrote:

> will always pick up and buy steam as a distribution system, because now
> other games developers are using steam who don't have anything to do
> with valve. steam has become its own entity. in the future it will

I don't believe this. The only other game I know of, that will use Steam
are the Sin Episodes and I guess Ritual is good friends with Valve. Or
does Dark Messiah use it as well? Bloodlines, thanks god, didn't ;) .

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 3:23:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, riku wrote:

> With disc based games, you can still install and play the game even if
> the company is not around supporting it.

Isn't all of this somehow similar to the original DivX concept that lost
out to DVD? I hope Steam does the same ;) .

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:45:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> in
spn1i1hba0i89cd3t73s56a0ao1fc5tk1o@4ax.com
> No, but the city did. Like I said, the disaster was completely
> avoidable, but wasn't avoided. Hopefully some political heads are
> gonna roll, but I doubt it.

you do know there was more disaster than just flooding, entire regions
have been totally flattened by the winds where you only see concrete
slabs where the homes used to be.

and even if the levy was build to cat5, who's to say it wouldn't have
been damaged anyway, and let the flood waters in.

I'm not defending the government, they all should be sacked right up to
the white house, but for ignoring the black area's just because they're
black and poor.


--
Verbing weirds language. - Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbe

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:45:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>you do know there was more disaster than just flooding, entire regions
>have been totally flattened by the winds where you only see concrete
>slabs where the homes used to be.

Oh, there'd have been destruction even if reasonable precautions had
been taken. But not wholesale flooding.

>I'm not defending the government, they all should be sacked right up to
>the white house, but for ignoring the black area's just because they're
>black and poor.

You can bet several teams of lawyers are hard at work as we speak,
trying to find ways to shift/avoid/misdirect blame. The buck wont go
very far, but it should.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:48:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Highlandish wrote:

> Dark Messiah uses the source engine, but i dont know past that.

Let's cross our fingers then, after all if they would be using Steam,
they'd probably had announced that already in their press release...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 12:22:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> in
Pine.LNX.4.58.0509091118130.4040@localhost
> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Highlandish wrote:
>
>> will always pick up and buy steam as a distribution system, because
>> now other games developers are using steam who don't have anything
>> to do with valve. steam has become its own entity. in the future it
>> will
>
> I don't believe this. The only other game I know of, that will use
> Steam are the Sin Episodes and I guess Ritual is good friends with
> Valve. Or does Dark Messiah use it as well? Bloodlines, thanks god,
> didn't ;) .

Dark Messiah uses the source engine, but i dont know past that

--
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite
of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr
(1885-1962)

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 6:38:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ri50i11jagi34pvft24s8rhv7q6004cphb@4ax.com...
> Thusly "Sleepy" <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> Spake Unto
> All:
>
>>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens
>>> if
>>> you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
>>
>>Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I
>>have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of
>>producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to
>>change
>>it to a download only system like Steam.
>
> I've certainly lost disks. I remember Quake2 getting jammed in a CD
> tray door, for instance.
>
<snip>

About 8 years ago, I was at work and stuck a CD into a drive. Next thing I
hear is the drive going into maximum over-drive. And then a bunch of snap,
crackle, and pops as the drive ate the CD. The pc tech guys came in and
marveled over the many pieces found inside the CD-Rom drive.

And all the King's horses, and all the King's men, ....
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 7:49:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:03 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Highlandish wrote:
>
>> will always pick up and buy steam as a distribution system, because now
>> other games developers are using steam who don't have anything to do
>> with valve. steam has become its own entity. in the future it will
>
>I don't believe this. The only other game I know of, that will use Steam
>are the Sin Episodes and I guess Ritual is good friends with Valve. Or
>does Dark Messiah use it as well? Bloodlines, thanks god, didn't ;) .
>

Since EA has now picked up the retail distribution rights for Valve
games, I suddenly get a bad feeling ........... Will be checking all
future EA Single-player games in which I may have an interest
for the dread wording "Internet Connection Required" and for
the SP/MP games that "Internet Connection Required" only
applies to the MP component.

Let the buyer beware...........

John Lewis
!