Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
I haven't read much on this group about Valve's upcoming "Episode" for HL2 called "Aftermath". In this months Computer Gaming World there's a well done article interviewing Gabe and some of the other guys at Valve about the new way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short "Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release the episodes much like a TV show, where the story advances a little at a time. Then after say a year or so they plan on releasing HL3.
The other news is that Ritual is going to bring back "Sin" but their plan is to release only small episodes from the start instead of releasing a new boxed "Sin" game. I loved "Sin" back in the day. It was one of the buggiest games to ever be release, but after all the patches it was a pretty solid game. I really liked all the interactivity the game had. There was so many things to check out and buttons to push, it really was something new and exciting for it's time. The first episode is going to be prices at $15 according to the article.
The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say, at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game. HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up over time. I'm not sure how well a game is going to do if it never ends.
But this will be a very interesting thing to keep an eye on because if it's successful, it could start to change the way we look at gaming. If you can get your hands on this months copy of CGW is really is an interesting article. So what do you guys think about all this?
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
x-no-archive: yes
JLC wrote:
> So what do you guys think about all this?
half-life 3 will also be in episodes? very interesting
more changes valve is forcing pc gamers to get into
so sin episode is nothing more than a "test" for hl3...
now i get it
valve has the nerve to change whatever they want whenever
they want without asking anyone
what they already changed in pc games:
.. internet required to buy
.. credit card required to buy
.. internet required to install
.. internet required to play
.. internet needs to be broadband
.. no more cd-rom/dvd-rom
.. no more retail market
.. no more second hand market
.. no more individual patches
and what do the steam lovers reply to all this?
"yes master, we will obey and do whatever you want"
but valve hasn't finish and wants more changes... like:
.. no more full version games but only modular/episodes
now valve wants to end full version games ...my god
these guys don't stop! it's UNBELIEVABLE!
they want to change everything even the unthinkable which
is ending full version games!
and i predicted this
back last year i said valve would try and force a modular
model in pc games so they can ask more money and it is
really happening
what will be next? obviously renting
you will no longer "pay once use forever" model for a game
but rather forced to pay monthly fees to be able to play
and it's renting ONLY
don't think valve will give you an alternative cause with
them there is never ALTERNATIVE
with valve there is no choice, they change and you are
forced to accept their own way
valve will not stop until they have changed everything in
pc games for their own advantage
and believe me RENTING will be next after episodic content
and btw the sin episodes price is not 15 but rather 20 so
that will inflate prices in pc games at least 4 times
you remember when last year riddick one of your favorite
games had this price 19.99 just a couple of months after
its release, yes we had a high quality RETAIL game FULL
VERSION just released for 19.99
so valve wants now to sell 6 hour episodes for the price
of a full retail version
is this any kind of IMPROVEMENT? obviously not! this is a
complete REGRESSION in pc games
so we now know why all this, why steam, why episodes in
pc games, and next renting, its money money money and we
will be the ones paying for it
--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, JLC wrote:
> way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short
> "Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release
[snip]
> The other news is that Ritual is going to bring back "Sin" but their plan
> is to release only small episodes from the start instead of releasing a new
I think this shows that Valve and Ritual are well aware that people like
myself can't get much data from Steam without a broadband connection...
-- Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
> Sleepy wrote:
> > I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
> > Steam.
>
> Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ...
Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
-- Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
> > >>Sleepy wrote:
>>
>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>Steam.
>>
>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
> > > Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ...
> > Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>
or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3o8elrF4p02qU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Werner Spahl wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>
>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>Steam.
>>>
>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>>
>>
>> Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ...
>>
>> Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>>
>
> or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>
> Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>
> Live with it.
At $15 at least you don't get burned if it stinks - no more risking $50+ on a game that you may not like.
On the other hand, Steam has too many user unfriendly faults to be *the* delivery system of choice for me.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:18:18 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Werner Spahl wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>> >> >>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>
>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>Steam.
>>>
>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>> >> >> Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>> of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>> sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>> Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ...
>> >> Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>> noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>> >
>or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>
>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>
Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already.
In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
>Live with it.
Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
medium. And regardless of platform, competitive retail sales of
hard-coded games will by far be the leading means of games
distribution for the forseeable future.
Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
unfortunate humans in The Matrix
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) once tried to test me with:
> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
If a game has 30gb of data, it's going to cost $100 a copy. They'll have to charge that much to pay for all the artists, musicians, sound-techs, etc.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:35:16 -0700, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:
>I haven't read much on this group about Valve's upcoming "Episode" for HL2 >called "Aftermath". In this months Computer Gaming World there's a well done >article interviewing Gabe and some of the other guys at Valve about the new >way they plan to develop the story line for HL2, which is through short >"Episodes" that are released every 3 months or so. The plan is to release >the episodes much like a TV show, where the story advances a little at a >time. Then after say a year or so they plan on releasing HL3.
The rate of episode release seems rapid - there doesn't seem to be enough
time to verify the content and integrety of the map unless there's a
massive amount of resources developing the game. Even then, there's going
te be a high chance some map bug will slip through (disrupting whatever
plot or "puzzle" was in the way.)
> The first thing that comes to my mind is that it sounds interesting on >paper, but if you never have a base game to start with, a game that is say, >at lest 15 hours of game play, I'd never be able to get a deal on the game. >HL2 can be found for under $25 now at retail. But if "Sin" is only >downloadable, and each part of the game cost's $15 it could really add up >over time. I'm not sure how well a game is going to do if it never ends.
>But this will be a very interesting thing to keep an eye on because if it's >successful, it could start to change the way we look at gaming. If you can >get your hands on this months copy of CGW is really is an interesting >article. So what do you guys think about all this?
The alternative is the retail way of doing it. The base pack is ~$30, with
one or two expasions also being ~$30 each. There is one problem - good
luck trying to find a legit copy of the Quake 1/2/3 expansion packs.
This also generally relies on the gameplay content and/or stoaryline. The
instant users say the game is bad is the instant the experiment fails.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
Quoth The Raven: Sleepy <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> in
hPBTe.21251$2n6.5273@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> I know its not expensive to produce a game CD but to me its still
> vitally important to have a hard copy separate from my hard drive for
> reinstalls or possible hard drive failure. I wasnt belittling the
> value of the data
> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
> expense of producing
> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
> the consumer
> but they didnt.
if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
-- Forty is the old age of youth, fifty is the youth of old age. - Victor
Hugo
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:431fe129$0$18649$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> Quoth The Raven: Sleepy <bpespleyremovetheobvious@blueyonder.co.uk> in
> hPBTe.21251$2n6.5273@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>> I know its not expensive to produce a game CD but to me its still
>> vitally important to have a hard copy separate from my hard drive for
>> reinstalls or possible hard drive failure. I wasnt belittling the
>> value of the data
>> as you all clearly misunderstand but since Valve didnt have the
>> expense of producing
>> a DVD case and disk they could have passed some of that saving on to
>> the consumer
>> but they didnt.
>
> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if > you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to change it to a download only system like Steam.
Trouble is - not enough people are prepared to think about a change and whether its really a good thing. I'll give you an example - 20 years ago we all used to get our milk from the milkman in glass bottles. We put out the empties and he recycled them. The system worked and was environmentally friendly. We changed to buying milk in plastic containers from supermarkets (ignoring the fact we were putting milkman out of work) because it was cheaper for us personally but now we're being asked to recycle the plastic bottles because we're filling up the landfill sites and all those plastic bottles take decades to degrade. There are plenty of examples of people following progress for the sake of progress without thinking about and their usual argument is - "its gonna happen so get used to it".
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns96CACFDC4F3BBknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) once tried to test me with:
>
>> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
>> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
>> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
>> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
>> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
>> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
>
> If a game has 30gb of data, it's going to cost $100 a copy. They'll have > to
> charge that much to pay for all the artists, musicians, sound-techs, etc.
>
> -- >
> Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com >
Unless much of that data is simply higher res textures, better quality sounds etc?
>>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>>
>
>Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
>old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already.
Well, I for one think he may well be right. That you personally don't
like what he's saying is of no consequence.
>In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
>price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
>on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
>copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
>excuse for Steam) will be redundant.
>Anyway, downloading and storing
>10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
Downloading 10GB would take me a little over 2 hours. And I pay a flat
rate, so basically it becomes cheaper to me the more I download. When I was a fledgling pirate back in the 80's, with a 2400 baud
modem, I'd routinely keep downloading over night, and I don't suppose
the pirate brats of today are less dedicated.
The number of people with 10MBit connections like mine will hardly
have decreased in 5 years either.
That said, you wouldn't have to download 10 GB. The content would be
streamed to you on demand. Yes, that works also for games, Guild Wars
(which in many ways is a very forward-looking title) can be played
like that.
And you wouldn't be long-term storing the whole game on your disk (or
on CD's). You COULD, I suppose, but why should you? You've got an
account, just download install the client again and play.
Online authentication systems also are the only ones in existence
which actually lets you control piracy. There are no pirates playing
Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
February), or Everquest 2. No disk based copy protection has ever
managed to hold off pirates from cracking a triple-A title for more
than a few days.
>Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
>be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
>medium.
Famous Last Words. Well, we'll know in five years.
There is no intrinsic value in distribution on hard media, not for the
developer and not for the buyer. The things which keeps hard
distribution media around is 1) the continuing inability to verify
identity online at purchase, 2) that many/most are still on dial-up,
and 3) that people think they've actually bought the game, and feel
they've got more value for money, if they get a piece of worthless
plastic in their hands rather than just a download on their disk.
>Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
>unfortunate humans in The Matrix
What's with these insults? Are you incapable of rational discussion?
>> if you loose all your data you can redownload it for free. what happens if >> you loose the disk you purchased? you have to buy another
>
>Ive been using computers for 15 years now - never lost a single disk but I >have had 2 hard drives die on me. We've had a perfectly good system of >producing games for years - I see no good reason for the consumer to change >it to a download only system like Steam.
I've certainly lost disks. I remember Quake2 getting jammed in a CD
tray door, for instance.
However, you'd not be storing your programs on your harddisks, that's
a non-optimal hybrid approach. Much better (and safer for all
concerned) would be to access them through your account and stream
content on demand.
>friendly. We changed to buying milk in plastic containers from supermarkets >(ignoring the fact we were putting milkman out of work) because it was >cheaper for us personally but now we're being asked to recycle the plastic >bottles because we're filling up the landfill sites and all those plastic >bottles take decades to degrade.
Actually, they should be incinerated, not deposited, and then provide
a net environmental gain over transporting & washing glass bottles.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
John Lewis wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:18:18 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>Werner Spahl wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Walter Mitty wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I dont recall Valve releasing any figures on how it sold through
>>>>>Steam.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah. It crashed and burnt.
>>>
>>>
>>>Jokes aside, his question is valid. I know there are some figures around
>>>of how often HL2 was sold but are there any links pointing to Steam-only
>>>sales compared to retail-sales? I for one know noone, who bought it over
>>>Steam only, except all you Steam fans right here in this newsgroup ...
>>>
>>>Again, all the talk about episodic content delivery may hint that they
>>>noticed that downloading a whole game is for broadband customers only.
>>>
>>
>>or that they see profits in regular "short sharp" releases.
>>
>>Online delivery will be mainstream within 5 years.
>>
> > > Oh, dear, Wally is main-lining on Steam again. Time to kick the habit,
> old boy...showing signs of atrophied brain-cells already. >
Wrong. I'm mainlining on online delivery systems of which Steam is but one. Albeit a very good one.
> In 5 years time, Wally can enjoy downloading 30Gbytes and paying full
> price; I will happily buy HD-DVD or Blu-ray retail games when they go
> on sale. BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
And you'll be the first to whine that your DVD player doesnt support it.
> excuse for Steam) will be redundant. Anyway, downloading and storing
> 10-30 Gbytes of pirated material would be a joy only for masochists.
>
Not really. It drip feeds in all the time on a fixed price high bandwisth link. Its easy.
> >>Live with it.
> > > Or ignore it. Games requiring the highest data storage ( and likely to
> be the most advanced ) will always be distributed on a hard-coded
> medium. And regardless of platform, competitive retail sales of
You're a luddite. And no it wont.
> hard-coded games will by far be the leading means of games
> distribution for the forseeable future.
hard-coded? Whats that supposed to mean?
> > Poor Wally is permanently umbilically wired to Steam like those
> unfortunate humans in The Matrix
> > John Lewis
>
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:
> BTW, Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) includes very sophisticated
> copy-protection, so the need for anti-piracy protection (and thus any
> excuse for Steam) will be redundant.
History asked me to tell you to stop ignoring it.
Nick
-- #include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1" );}
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)
>There are no pirates playing
> Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (not on the legal servers, anyway - I
> still find it amusing that there have been pirate WoW servers since
> February)
Really? How on earth does that work? Are they
recreations of the "real" servers?
"I decree that history shall be rewritten. This time without any
punctuation so that it is just one sentence linked together by
the phrase 'And then what happened was...'"
...