PCI bus - OK for gaming?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I have a line on a real cheap computer that I thought might be OK for a
gaming rig for my stepson (512MB RAM, 3 GHz P4). No real 3D graphics card, so
I'd have to buy that.

Odd thing is it's a PCI bus, which I'd kind of thought went the way of the
dodo, but apparently not (I guess a lot of the low-end PCs these days are
still PCI). My question is, will that be a serious bottleneck for gaming,
assuming I through a half-decent 3D card in there (like a 9600 Pro or
something like that)? I don't expect state-of-the-art gaming on this rig, but
would want decent frame-rates on modern games at 1024x768.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Joe62 wrote:
> I have a line on a real cheap computer that I thought might be OK for a
> gaming rig for my stepson (512MB RAM, 3 GHz P4). No real 3D graphics card, so
> I'd have to buy that.
>
> Odd thing is it's a PCI bus, which I'd kind of thought went the way of the
> dodo, but apparently not (I guess a lot of the low-end PCs these days are
> still PCI). My question is, will that be a serious bottleneck for gaming,
> assuming I through a half-decent 3D card in there (like a 9600 Pro or
> something like that)? I don't expect state-of-the-art gaming on this rig, but
> would want decent frame-rates on modern games at 1024x768.

I think you would be fine. The advantage of the AGP bus is that the
bus is faster, meaning data is transferred between the system and the
video card more quickly. I.e. AGP 2x is twice as fast as the PCI bus,
and on to 4x, 8x, etc. If you're playing Doom3 with the quality maxed
I expect AGP would make a big difference, but if you want to play games
at medium quality 1024x768 you should be just fine. I would buy a card
with the most memory you can though to eliminate constant data
exchange. My only concern is whether they even make modern PCI video
cards anymore.

In fact I searched New Egg for PCI cards that support DX9 and got only
13 results. Pickins are slim but I'd probably get one of these two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814139166
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133134

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

There are pci bus GeForce FX 5500 and ATI 9250 cards on eBay.

Here's a good way to see what's out there: http://www.pricewatch.com/
and http://www.anandtech.com/ / http://www.tomshardware.com/

"PCI bus" *IS NOT* "PCI express". The latter is a different slot and is
the latest technology. Not that you said otherwise, just the difference
to look out for.

I use an old GeForce 4 TI 4600 128mb AGP card, and can play Doom 3
on it just fine with lower (medium) settings, 800x600, and get a static
55 to 62 frames per second, but I have one full GB of PC3200 DDR
RAM (400 MHZ speed), dual channel, working with an 800MHZ FSB.

You might find a less costly and current tech PCI card and do well with
all games out there, but this idea is based upon the heaviest 3D action
games of first and third person shooters. The types of games you allow
your step son to play is something to consider, and the purchase of a vid-
card could be based upon that, considering cost.

The Doom 3 game engine is the current standard by which all hardware
and capability is judged by testing. It could also be called the Quake 4
engine and the up coming game "Quake 4" is built upon the Doom 3
engine.

Does anyone think that a PCI bus will use 8 bit packeting, and therefore
be faster than transfering 32 bit open programming during game play?
If so, not that I know for sure, not much of a "bottleneck".

--
Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Walter Mitty wrote:
> Inlaw Biker wrote:
> > I.e. AGP 2x is twice as fast as the PCI bus,
> > and on to 4x, 8x, etc.
>
> Are you sure?

I looked some of this stuff up. Actually the AGP bus is already twice
as fast as the 33mhz PCI bus, but the 2x mode sends twice the
instructions per cycle, 4x four times, etc. So in theory AGP is twice
as fast already, 2x is four times as fast and so on.

AGP (1x): 66MHz clock, 266MB/s
AGP 2x: "133MHz" clock, 533MB/s
AGP 4x: "266MHz" clock, 1066MB/s
AGP 8x: "533MHz" clock, 2.1GB/s

However the AGP bus still always runs at 66mhz, the increase is just
more data paths. The next question is, can a system take advantage of
8x, or even 4x? I would think in most systems the answer is "no way."
Most machines could never push that much data. I think the AGP
technology has been developed much more quickly than the rest of the
components. In other words an 8x AGP card is mostly just sitting there
waiting for data, capable of accepting 2.1GB per second, but usually
receiving around 1/3rd of that if you're lucky.

If you could make your system bus, system memory and processor all run
at 533mhz then I guess you could run at true 8x all the time. Some
animators at Pixar might have these machines, but us home gamers don't.
Maybe there is an engineer reading this who can explain all this in
the real world.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Inlaw Biker wrote:
> I.e. AGP 2x is twice as fast as the PCI bus,
> and on to 4x, 8x, etc.

Are you sure?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Joe62 <noone@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>I have a line on a real cheap computer that I thought might be OK for a
>gaming rig for my stepson (512MB RAM, 3 GHz P4). No real 3D graphics card, so
>I'd have to buy that.
>
>Odd thing is it's a PCI bus, which I'd kind of thought went the way of the
>dodo, but apparently not (I guess a lot of the low-end PCs these days are
>still PCI). My question is, will that be a serious bottleneck for gaming,
>assuming I through a half-decent 3D card in there (like a 9600 Pro or
>something like that)? I don't expect state-of-the-art gaming on this rig, but
>would want decent frame-rates on modern games at 1024x768.


PCI bus has only just been superceeded by PCI-E.

Are you saying that the Video Card must be PCI, that there is no AGP
slot for video?

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:29:04 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Are you saying that the Video Card must be PCI, that there is no AGP
>slot for video?

That's what it *seems* like from the specs I can see. I'll try and get
some more info on the motherboard...

 

[jlc]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Joe62" <jmcginnNOSPAM@radicalREALLYNOSPAM.ca> wrote in message
news:9ghbi1d8pd2hk8u9mfuu0ap97b4f88p3k0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:29:04 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Are you saying that the Video Card must be PCI, that there is no AGP
>>slot for video?
>
> That's what it *seems* like from the specs I can see. I'll try and get
> some more info on the motherboard...

Can you get your hands on the PC? Fastest way to find out is to open it up
yourself and see what slots it has. FYI the AGP port is smaller then a the
PCI slots and is always the first one. I've read that a lot of cheaper PC's
don't have APG slots because they have integrated video on the MB. If you're
a gamer, even though this PC sounds like a good deal, without the APG slot,
you're not going to be able to put that 3GHZ CPU to much use. How cheap is
it? You could always pick up a new MB for less the $100 that would have an
AGP slot. Then you could put a video card in there that would kick butt.
That's one thing to consider. JLC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

AGP 1x is twice as fast as the standard PCI bus (it runs at 66Mhz), 2xAGP is
four times as fast as the PCI bus (133Mhz).

--
there is no .sig
"Inlaw Biker" <gmonsquared@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126495347.615152.309200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I think you would be fine. The advantage of the AGP bus is that the
> bus is faster, meaning data is transferred between the system and the
> video card more quickly. I.e. AGP 2x is twice as fast as the PCI bus,
> and on to 4x, 8x, etc. If you're playing Doom3 with the quality maxed
> I expect AGP would make a big difference, but if you want to play games
> at medium quality 1024x768 you should be just fine. I would buy a card
> with the most memory you can though to eliminate constant data
> exchange. My only concern is whether they even make modern PCI video
> cards anymore.
>
> In fact I searched New Egg for PCI cards that support DX9 and got only
> 13 results. Pickins are slim but I'd probably get one of these two:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814139166
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814133134
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>......"..................it's a PCI bus, ...."

Sounds like a cheaper DELL ???...........

Recently I had a really good look around for a friend of mine on this "good
PCI graphics card" issue...and I'm sorry to report that I found only one
....cant remember its name ..it really is allmost imposible..
try second hand ...you will need one that can do DX9....remember that PCIE
(PCI express) is intirely different from PCI..

found this. new.@@@@@@@@@@@
....ATI Radeon 9250/PCI 128MB 64bit with TV-Out and DVI

£43.48 inc
Description
Powered by ATI RADEON9250, the Excalibur 9250 enables end users to
experience the most realistic, life-like images, and visual effects on the
next generation 3D games or multimedia application. With advanced graphics
architecture, Excalibur 9250 provides best-of-class performance to
accelerate all popular 3D applications. Among other high-end features,
Excalibur 9250 is DirectX 9 compatible for faster gaming, SMARTSHADER
technology for more complex and realistic lighting effects and SMOOTHVISION
technology for smoother-looking images. Excalibur 9250 also features VIDEO
IMMERSION II and FULLSTREAM technologies for unprecedented video quality.

Technical Specifications
Manufacturer HIS
Model Number R9250 - PTDW128-64 BIT
Core Speed (MHz) 240 MHz
Device Type Graphics adapter
Graphics Processor / Vendor ATI RADEON 9250
Interface Type PCI
RAMDAC (MHz) 400 MHz
Supported APIs OpenGL, DirectX 9.0
TV Interface TV out
Video Memory Installed ( Max ) 128 MB - DDR SDRAM

Luv mouse
@@@@@

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:17:41 -0700, Joe62
<jmcginnNOSPAM@radicalREALLYNOSPAM.ca> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:29:04 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Are you saying that the Video Card must be PCI, that there is no AGP
>>slot for video?
>
>That's what it *seems* like from the specs I can see. I'll try and get
>some more info on the motherboard...

If it's as you say, it's probably one of the budget Dells (and the
like) that cut corners with proprietary boards with onboard vid and
save the expense of an AGP or PCI-E slot & wireing.

Clay
--
Standard Disclaimer:
My Employer gives my internet access, but I don't speak for them...
So blame me for saying something dumb, not them.

Clay Cahill 2005

"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late
nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - David Lee Roth

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Clay Cahill <clay.cahill@bunnypeople.com> writes:

> If it's as you say, it's probably one of the budget Dells (and the
> like) that cut corners with proprietary boards with onboard vid and
> save the expense of an AGP or PCI-E slot & wireing.

A few years ago companies sold systems without AGP slots as "server"
boxes. The idea being that servers don't need whiz-bang
graphics. Makes sense to me -- my servers don't even run a GUI.

Nick

--
#include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}

 

[Victor]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Stay away from these cards with 64 bit video memory interface.You need
a
128mb or 256 mb 128bit memory bus card.The ATI radeon 9100(a rebadged
Radeon
8500) 128mb ddr PCI fits the bill but are no longer produced.Can be
picked
up for cheap on Ebay from time to time.Core-memory was 250/250ddr. 500
effective memory clock.Maybe the fastest PCI card ever produced.Looking
at
Neweggs' list of pci cards the best is probably the Fx5500's with their

256mb 128bit memory clocked at 270/200ddr.The slower memory hurts these

cards but they should play all the newer games fine on a 3gig
system.You might have to use 800x600 medium detail in a game like
doom3.Don't
get a 64mb card- swapping over the slow pci bus will slow games to a
crawl.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143032