Dimmers

Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.

The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.

Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
problems?
51 answers Last reply
More about dimmers
  1. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1bbf5e70af9d390c98a4e9@news.paradise.net.nz>,
    Patrick Dunford <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:

    > Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    > The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    > Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > problems?

    three hots into the dimmer
    and you only have two legs coming from the distro
    if it is one dimmer opwer it all off one leg
    if it is multi dimmers power I half off one leg and the other half off
    the other
    just use a service and cableing adaquate for the job

    most venues that use lots of portable systems have seperate services for
    sound and lights with independent disconnects

    I just bought the behringer dimmer that was set up for 3 phase
    20 amp120v/ph
    I hard wired it to three single breakers in a disconnect(breaker box)
    all on the same phase this disconnect connects with tails and camlocs
    to a mains(at venue) that can supply at least 60 amps/phase
    if I can not get the power I have two option
    1 down size lighting rig
    2 limit the draw by restricting the maximum brightness of the
    lamps(easily done with a trimmer on my control desk)
    george
  2. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    > The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    > Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > problems?

    Most of those sound system manuals are misusing the word phase.
    What they were trying to stop with that advice is ground loops that
    allow the hash and trash generated by dimmers to enter the signal
    paths.
    The sound system should be on a separate power panel than
    the dimmers, and they both should have large friendly ground
    conductors connected to a good building grounding system.

    --Dale
  3. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    George wrote:

    <Snip>

    > most venues that use lots of portable systems have seperate services for
    > sound and lights with independent disconnects
    >
    > I just bought the behringer dimmer that was set up for 3 phase
    > 20 amp120v/ph
    > I hard wired it to three single breakers in a disconnect(breaker box)
    > all on the same phase this disconnect connects with tails and camlocs
    > to a mains(at venue) that can supply at least 60 amps/phase

    Is the neutral from the dimmer rated for 60A? If running single phase it
    will need to be.

    The other thing to watch is that RMS/AVERAGE thing when reducing power draw
    by turning down at the desk. Ohh and this applies to three phase loads as
    well as it is quite possible for the neutral current to exceed any given
    phase current due to third harmonic summing in the neutral.

    Just a heads up about some of the details that may not be obvious to people
    considering doing this.

    Regards, Dan (who is profoundly glad that he is in a 230/400V country).
    --
    ** The email address *IS* valid, do NOT remove the spamblock
    And on the evening of the first day the lord said...........
    ..... LX 1, GO!; and there was light.
  4. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <cj2gef$kg8$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>,
    Dan Mills <dmills@spamblock.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    > George wrote:
    >
    > <Snip>
    >
    > > most venues that use lots of portable systems have seperate services for
    > > sound and lights with independent disconnects
    > >
    > > I just bought the behringer dimmer that was set up for 3 phase
    > > 20 amp120v/ph
    > > I hard wired it to three single breakers in a disconnect(breaker box)
    > > all on the same phase this disconnect connects with tails and camlocs
    > > to a mains(at venue) that can supply at least 60 amps/phase
    >
    > Is the neutral from the dimmer rated for 60A? If running single phase it
    > will need to be.

    yes 4 guage free air conductors and the ground is 2
    i also have a real disto that runs 2/0 on the same sized camlocs
    >
    > The other thing to watch is that RMS/AVERAGE thing when reducing power draw
    > by turning down at the desk. Ohh and this applies to three phase loads as
    > well as it is quite possible for the neutral current to exceed any given
    > phase current due to third harmonic summing in the neutral.

    this I was not aware of , thanks
    >
    > Just a heads up about some of the details that may not be obvious to people
    > considering doing this.
    >
    > Regards, Dan (who is profoundly glad that he is in a 230/400V country).
  5. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:53:19 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:

    >Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    >dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.

    But, since most homes only have one phase , domestic users hook all
    their dimmers on different rings or spurs or whatever sparkies call
    the individual circuits. As in, a different spur to the stereo.

    El P.
  6. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Patrick Dunford <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:
    >Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    >dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    >The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    >Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    >problems?

    1. Don't use dimmers at all.

    2. Get a separate service from the dimmers.

    3. Spend the money for expensive dimmer packs that have some degree of noise
    filtering, then put them on a three-phase isolation transformer from the
    main service.

    4. Use an ancient autotransformer board.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  7. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:53:19 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:

    >Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    >dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    >The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    >Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    >problems?

    Lots of batteries? But seriously, how old is the room you'll be
    working in? I've found, in our new (1995) theater that I can just
    plug randomly into Edison wherever I want and not worry. About
    that anyway.

    There's nothing you can do about the dimmers, which is scary, but
    there may not be any practical problems, which is cool.

    RFI trapping at the input to electronics may still prove to be
    audible, and is worth experimenting with, if only for peace of
    mind. I play with clamp-on ferrite donuts on signal and power.

    Good fortune,

    Chris Hornbeck
  8. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Scott Dorsey"
    > Patrick Dunford
    > >
    > >Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > >dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    > >
    >The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    > >
    > >Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > >problems?
    >
    >
    > 1. Don't use dimmers at all.
    >

    ** Dorsey is as clueless as ever.


    > 2. Get a separate service from the dimmers.


    ** Won't help when ground system noise is the issue.

    >
    > 3. Spend the money for expensive dimmer packs that have some degree of
    noise
    > filtering, then put them on a three-phase isolation transformer from
    the
    > main service.
    >

    ** Dorsey has not got a clue.


    > 4. Use an ancient autotransformer board.


    ** That is no damn board - that is a room full of motorised hardware
    that went out with Noah's Arc.


    The real answer is to make sure your PA system is genuinely earth loop hum
    free - then it will be dimmer buzz fee to in all probability too.

    However, electric guitars, keyboards, amps and other items of stage gear
    are the NUMBER ONE culprits for picking up dimmer buzz - and there is
    SFA **you** can do about them.


    ............. Phil
  9. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    > The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    > Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > problems?

    The issue will be with earth loops, they exagerate the noise pickup from dimmers.

    Solve the earth loop, solve the buzz generally.
  10. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    richard <rich@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
    >The issue will be with earth loops, they exagerate the noise pickup from dimmers.

    >Solve the earth loop, solve the buzz generally.

    For the most part this is true, but keeping the trash out of the power line
    as much as possible with careful power supply to the dimmers is still a good
    idea.

    Because you're going to encounter equipment with internal ground loops (yes,
    I realize Phil doesn't believe in the Pin 1 problem, but there was a nice
    paper at the last AES show on it that is worth looking up), you're going to
    be using wireless mikes with poor front-ends that pick up RF trash directly,
    and all-in-all, sooner or later you're going to have someone working in the
    hall that will be in some situation where noise is an issue. So try and do
    it right with the initial install.

    Don't forget clearcom systems either....
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  11. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <cj5292$9f7$1@panix2.panix.com> in nz.tech on 25 Sep 2004
    20:25:06 -0400, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> says...
    > Patrick Dunford <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:
    > >Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > >dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    > >
    > >The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    > >
    > >Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > >problems?
    >
    > 1. Don't use dimmers at all.
    >
    > 2. Get a separate service from the dimmers.
    >
    > 3. Spend the money for expensive dimmer packs that have some degree of noise
    > filtering, then put them on a three-phase isolation transformer from the
    > main service.

    How does running your sound gear on isolation transformers go?

    We don't get much noise now, except for using three channels where the
    mains cables run too close to the audio lines.
  12. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Patrick Dunford <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >How does running your sound gear on isolation transformers go?

    It allows you to break connection between your grounding system and the
    building grounding system. It gives you some degree of low-pass filtering
    on the power line.

    But, it does nothing about the RF trash that is radiating from the building
    power system and from the lighting cables. RF trash that floats through the
    air and couples into audio gear, even though it's not coming into the audio
    gear through the power line.

    >We don't get much noise now, except for using three channels where the
    >mains cables run too close to the audio lines.

    Well, move them and stop worrying so much. If you don't have noise problems,
    don't worry about noise. If you have noise problems, find out what specific
    problems they are and fix them.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  13. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >> 3. Spend the money for expensive dimmer packs that have some degree of
    >noise
    >> filtering, then put them on a three-phase isolation transformer from the
    >> main service.
    >
    >
    Back in the mid-late 60's, we built a new studio and had the buzzing and other
    artifacts from the studio dimmers. We wound up placing the lighting on
    isolation transformers to eliminate the interference with audio. I would hope
    things have progressed further by now. Isolation was a little expensive.


    --Wayne

    -"sounded good to me"-
  14. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Is it just me or does anyone else noticed how much nicer rap is after having
    killfiled the philbot. What a relief to get rid of that nasty, fuzzy logic.


    Ty Ford





    -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
    stuff are at www.tyford.com
  15. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    So you DO have a kill file????

    Al

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:13:49 -0400, Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    >Is it just me or does anyone else noticed how much nicer rap is after having
    >killfiled the philbot. What a relief to get rid of that nasty, fuzzy logic.
    >
    >
    >Ty Ford
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
    >stuff are at www.tyford.com
  16. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Ty Ford" wrote:
    > Is it just me or does anyone else noticed how much nicer rap is after
    having
    > killfiled the philbot. What a relief to get rid of that nasty, fuzzy
    logic.

    It's better, but since it still appears in other people's quoted replies
    it's like there's this weird echo which is even stranger and more insane
    than the actual posts.

    -jw
  17. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    playon wrote:

    > So you DO have a kill file?

    Ty got a new newsreader some time ago. (Pay attention, will ya? <g>)
    Still, that doesn't mean that having four wheel drive makes driving
    around and over piles of excrement a pleasure.

    --
    ha
  18. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <qHH5d.47592$Ot3.42920@twister.nyc.rr.com> johnwashburn99@nyc.rr.com writes:

    > "Ty Ford" wrote:
    > > Is it just me or does anyone else noticed how much nicer rap is after
    > having
    > > killfiled the philbot.

    > It's better, but since it still appears in other people's quoted replies

    Also, all it takes is posting a message with his name in it and he'll
    reply with an insulting remark.

    Mark my words.

    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  19. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >> Ty got a new newsreader some time ago. (Pay attention, will ya? <g>)
    >> Still, that doesn't mean that having four wheel drive makes driving
    >> around and over piles of excrement a pleasure.
    >>

    However, that is what the steering wheel is for...
  20. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Ty Ford"

    > Is it just me or does anyone else noticed how much nicer rap is after
    having
    > killfiled the philbot.


    ** Only scum want to eliminate their critics.

    Typhoid has all the qualifications.


    ............. Phil
  21. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Phil Allison wrote:

    > ** Only scum want to eliminate their critics.

    So that's everyone here judging by your usual comments ( assume including
    liars, parrots et al ).


    Graham
  22. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:53:19 +1200, Patrick Dunford
    <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote:
    > Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    >
    > The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    >
    > Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the noise
    > problems?

    The manuals are talking about studio installs, whereas dimmer packs are
    "luggable" in that context.

    When I was doing theatre, they'd bring in 200+ channels of dimmers.
    These would be wired direct very close to the service entrance with the
    ground lead doubled, making a very robust earth connection.

    The sound equipment would then be effectively "separate" . . a much
    smaller load usually a service panel or two removed from the lighting.

    The "dimmer problem" is most often encountered in a residential or
    commercial space that's retrofitted into a studio. Residential dimmers
    have to meet emmission standards sufficient for TV viewing, but they
    don't stand up to critical listening.

    If the power distribution is well-planned and the dimmers are of better
    quality (variacs, hopefully), this is less of a problem.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Pooh Bear"
    >
    > Phil Allison wrote:
    >
    > > ** Only scum want to eliminate their critics.
    >
    > So that's everyone here ...


    ** Only the lowest usenet vermin use the killfile on someone and THEN go on
    posting abuse of that person.


    ............ Phil
  24. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Pooh Bear wrote:

    > Phil Assilon wrote:

    > > ** Only scum want to eliminate their critics.

    > So that's everyone here judging by your usual comments ( assume including
    > liars, parrots et al ).

    What he meant to say is that civilized people flush the toilet.

    --
    ha
  25. Archived from groups: nz.tech,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:14:25 +0200, Joakim Wendel
    <oviktig@bostreammail.net> scribbled:


    >
    >
    >No wonder you guys go bomb other countries off the planet ... sheesh
    >;) wait, where is nz?

    Funny. Har har. You should be a stand-up comedian.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "U-CDK_CHARLES
    Patrick Dunford

    > > Every sound system manual I have ever seen recommends strongly you have
    > > dimmers on a separate phase from the sound system.
    > >
    > > The problem with this is, most dimmer packs are three phase.
    > >
    > > Short of not using 1/3 of your channels, what can be done about the
    noise
    > > problems?
    >
    > The manuals are talking about studio installs, whereas dimmer packs are
    > "luggable" in that context.


    ** The manuals are talking about sound systems - not studios of any kind.


    > When I was doing theatre, they'd bring in 200+ channels of dimmers.
    > These would be wired direct very close to the service entrance with the
    > ground lead doubled, making a very robust earth connection.
    >
    > The sound equipment would then be effectively "separate" . . a much
    > smaller load usually a service panel or two removed from the lighting.
    >

    ** AS recommended in the manuals Patrick is reading.


    > The "dimmer problem" is most often encountered in a residential or
    > commercial space that's retrofitted into a studio.


    ** Is anyone so dumb they have triac dimmed lights installed in a
    recording studio ????


    > Residential dimmers have to meet emmission standards sufficient for TV
    viewing,


    ** AM and short wave bands are covered too - just not the AUDIO band !!


    > If the power distribution is well-planned and the dimmers are of better
    > quality (variacs, hopefully), this is less of a problem.
    >


    ** Variac and variable inductance dimming went out decades ago.

    For critical applications, where no audible buzz can be accepted there are
    modern "Sine Wave" dimmers - using either mosfets ot IGBTs to "chop" the AC
    at supersonic high frequency and scale it to any desired value.


    http://www.stld.org.uk/php/index.php?sectionid=19&parentid=4&contentid=176


    .............. Phil
  27. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "mr c deckard"
    >
    > phil, why are you still here? you gain nothing (no one here is as
    > knowledgeable as you), and you give nothing.


    ** Hey, to that Dickhard shithead !!


    In the space below explain what you think a public forum is ???

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ---


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --


    ** In this next space explain why you think anyone is entitled to act like
    they own this NG ??


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ** I wait with interest.


    .............. Phil
  28. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<2rrr2cF1e1ga8U1@uni-berlin.de>...
    > "mr c deckard"
    > >
    > > phil, why are you still here? you gain nothing (no one here is as
    > > knowledgeable as you), and you give nothing.
    >
    >
    > ** Hey, to that Dickhard shithead !!
    >
    >
    > In the space below explain what you think a public forum is ???
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ---
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > --
    >
    >
    > ** In this next space explain why you think anyone is entitled to act like
    > they own this NG ??
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    > ** I wait with interest.
    >
    >
    >
    > ............. Phil

    You didn't answer his question ("phil, why are you still here? you
    gain nothing (no one here is as knowledgeable as you), and you give
    nothing"), you only changed the subject. Why not answer his question?
    It should be easy for a genius like you, Phil.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<2rrr2cF1e1ga8U1@uni-berlin.de>...
    > "mr c deckard"


    phil, if you *really* wait for my answers with "interest", then you
    must first answer the question i asked you *first* (note that i'm not
    telling you to leave, i'm trying to find out why you stay when
    everyone really, really wants you to):

    -----------
    phil, why are you still here? you gain nothing (no one here is as
    knowledgeable as you), and you give nothing.

    absolutely NO ONE wants you here. everyone here is in a group
    throwing rocks at you, yelling at you to GO AWAY. it's rather
    pathetic, and i'm kinda getting embarrassed for you.
    ------------


    if you honestly answer that question (it actually is quite an honest
    question), i will honestly answer the two that you included below.


    it just boggles my mind, phil, that someone would stick around and
    bother in a forum (of idiots, parrots, and, as we've come to find out,
    problematic names) where they are *actively NOT wanted*, and they
    contribute and gain NOTHING.

    in a way, phil, it challenges my model of behaviourial theory, so i'm
    trying to figure out if i need to update it or not.


    your friend,
    chris "dickhard" deckard
    saint louis mo


    > In the space below explain what you think a public forum is ???
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ---
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > --
    >
    >
    > ** In this next space explain why you think anyone is entitled to act like
    > they own this NG ??
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    > ** I wait with interest.
    >
    >
    >
    > ............. Phil
  30. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <f290bcd4.0409280641.7a2bda8a@posting.google.com>,
    ThePaulThomas <thepaulthomas@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > The question and comment you have not answered was quoted in my
    > original post. I will repeat it again:
    >
    > "phil, why are you still here? you gain nothing (no one here is as
    > knowledgeable as you), and you give nothing".
    >
    > So let's hear your answer to the question, Phil. Why are you still
    > here?


    Like the Triumph, the insult comic dog on Conan O'Brien, his job is to
    poop on you.


    David Correia
    Celebration Sound
    Warren, Rhode Island

    CelebrationSound@aol.com
    www.CelebrationSound.com
  31. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Ty Ford"

    > I never take advice from anonymous doctors.
    >
    > Ty Ford


    ** ROTFLMAO !!!

    A prize charlatan will not take advice from someone he suspect might be
    just like him !!!


    ............ Phil
  32. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<2rsrnhF1duaapU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    > "Ty Ford"
    >
    > > I never take advice from anonymous doctors.
    > >
    > > Ty Ford

    Heh, thanks for the morning laugh. I feel the same way about advice from
    random recordists.

    > ** ROTFLMAO !!!
    >
    > A prize charlatan will not take advice from someone he suspect might be
    > just like him !!!
    >
    > ........... Phil

    "... just like him"? I'm a lot younger than Ty, and better looking. He has a nicer
    mic collection, though.

    -DrBoom
  33. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
    news:2rsrnhF1duaapU1@uni-berlin.de...

    >
    > *************************
    > *************************
    > ........... Phil
    >

    I'm wondering what kind of person feels so powerless in their own life that
    they turn to a place like usenet for some measure of power. You differ from
    'normal' trolls in that you appear to be a real person and you only use one
    address to post from. So your motivation isn't to destroy the group, as some
    kids get their jollies doing over in alt. You seem to try and help some of
    the newer members of the forum while attempting, as best as you can, to
    insult the 'die-hards'. This is a classic usenet 'divide and conquer'
    strategy, but unsuccessful for you as your posting style is uncharismatic in
    all ways.

    I'm really interested in usenet culture, and I'm writing a dissertation, so
    I have a few questions.

    1) Are you married? Have you ever been married?
    2) What do you do for a living? What is your job title?
    3) How much money do you make?
    4) Do you come from a single parent household?
    5) Do you have fond memories of childhood?
    6) Are you affiliated with a political party? If so, what?
    7) Are you affiliatd with a religious group, if so, which?
    8) Have you ever wounded an animal? If so, why?
    9) Do you watch TV? What are your favorite shows?
    10) How much sugar do you consume in a day? Caffeine? Alcohol? Canabis?
    Cocaine? Heroin?
    11) Have you ever been incarcerated? If so, why?
    12) Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?
    13) Which testacle hangs lower, the right or the left?

    Thanks Phil, I know you're the helpful type so I'll just thank you in
    advance for your speedy answering.

    jb
  34. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:51:31 -0400, DrBoom wrote
    (in article <69adb0eb.0409280651.13d9dfa0@posting.google.com>):

    > "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:<2rsrnhF1duaapU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    >> "Ty Ford"
    >>
    >>> I never take advice from anonymous doctors.
    >>>
    >>> Ty Ford
    >
    > Heh, thanks for the morning laugh. I feel the same way about advice from
    > random recordists.

    Me too.

    I'm a lot younger than Ty, and better looking. He has a
    > nicer
    > mic collection, though.
    >
    > -DrBoom

    Chicks dig it. ;)

    Ty Ford


    -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
    stuff are at www.tyford.com
  35. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Phil Allison wrote:

    > "mr c dickard"
    >
    >
    >>phil, if you *really* wait for my answers with "interest", then you
    >>must first answer the question i asked you *first*
    >
    >
    >
    > ** I have.
    >
    > " Anyone is entitled to contribute to a PUBLIC FORUM. "

    You can, so you will for no other reason. Do I have that
    right?

    You must be a _very_ busy troll.

    Entitled or not, you are not wanted by anyone here.
    Probably never have been anywhere.


    Bob
    --

    "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
    simpler."

    A. Einstein
  36. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >> " Anyone is entitled to contribute to a PUBLIC FORUM. "

    >Entitled or not, you are not wanted by anyone here.
    >Probably never have been anywhere.

    How late must one stay up to consider *both* of these positions
    to have equivalent or at least comparable validity? I could
    answer the question if I only knew my current time zone.

    Bon chance, mon ami's,

    Chris Hornbeck
  37. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "reddred"


    ** Mr R Dred, your last frontal lobotomy was not successful - have
    another.


    ............ Phil
  38. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Bob Cain"
    > Phil Allison wrote:
    >
    > > "mr c dickard"

    > >>phil, if you *really* wait for my answers with "interest", then you
    > >>must first answer the question i asked you *first*
    > >
    > >
    > > ** I have.
    > >
    > > " Anyone is entitled to contribute to a PUBLIC FORUM. "
    >
    >
    > You can, so you will for no other reason. Do I have that
    > right?


    ** Not even slightly.

    But The Porcine Prince of Fools never gets anything right.


    >
    > Entitled or not, you are not wanted by anyone here.
    >


    ** Certainly not wanted buy all the charlatans, spivs and their dupes.

    I see you are their self appointed advocate.


    .............. Phil
  39. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    > >
    > > Entitled or not, you are not wanted by anyone here.
    > >
    >
    >
    > ** Certainly not wanted buy all the charlatans, spivs and their dupes.
    >
    > I see you are their self appointed advocate.
    >


    well, it seems that this whole list is comprised of charlatans, spivs,
    and their dupes. not to mention idiots, parrots and one, i'm proud to
    say, "dickhard"!

    so why do you stay, phil? do you LIKE hanging around charlatans,
    spivs and their dupes? idiots, parrots and dickhards?

    on top of that, they don't even want you around!

    phil, i suggest that the reason you don't directly answer my question
    ("phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here"), is that
    you're ashamed of the answer. which is ok, shame is an important
    human emotion.

    this is why i suggest that you dismiss this whole list as charlatans,
    spivs, and their dupes, parrots, idiots, dickhards, etc., and announce
    that you're too good for the likes of us, and be off! you insult us,
    AND you save face!

    your friend,
    chris "dickhard" deckard
    saint louis mo
  40. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "mr c deckard" = possibly the biggest moron on earth

    >
    > so why do you stay, phil? do you LIKE hanging around charlatans,
    > spivs and their dupes? idiots, parrots and dickhards?


    ** I am not staying anywhere - you utter imbecile.

    I just pop in to see what the Parrots, Spivs and Charlatans are up to.

    Seems they are all in a flap over one person.


    ............ Phil
  41. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "mr c deckard"

    > phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?
    >


    ** Since this is a public forum - your idiotic fake "question" it is
    TOTALLY IRRELEVANT .


    ............. Phil
  42. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<2s3jbkF1h1r5iU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    > "mr c deckard"
    >
    > > phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?
    > >
    >
    >
    > ** Since this is a public forum - your idiotic fake "question" it is
    > TOTALLY IRRELEVANT .
    >
    >

    irrelevant to what? irrelevant to that fact that you're ashamed to
    answer? if you weren't, you'd have no problem answering.

    so, phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?

    answer me honestly, and i'll leave you alone.


    chris "dickhard" deckard,
    computer chair psychology
    "helping trolls get a life since 2003"
    saint louis mo
  43. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "mr c dickard"
    > "Phil Allison
    >>
    >> > phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?
    >>
    >> ** Since this is a public forum - your idiotic fake "question" it is
    >> TOTALLY IRRELEVANT .
    >>
    >
    > irrelevant to what?


    ** It is utterly **irrelevant** who does or does not want me to post here.


    > so, phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?
    >

    ** Same answer as before:

    " ** I am not staying anywhere - you utter imbecile.
    I just pop in to see what the Parrots, Spivs and Charlatans are up to.
    Seems they are all in a flap over one person. "


    > answer me honestly, and i'll leave you alone.
    >


    ** When did you stop beating your wife, stop rooting your dog, stop
    taking hard drugs, get out of jail, get out of that lunatic asylum .....

    Answer me *honestly* and I will leave you alone - promise ....


    .............. Phil
  44. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:<2s6ijjF1hlb6gU1@uni-berlin.de>...
    > "mr c dickard"
    > > "Phil Allison
    > >>

    >
    > > so, phil, why do you stay here when no one wants you here?
    > >
    >
    > ** Same answer as before:
    >
    > " ** I am not staying anywhere - you utter imbecile.
    > I just pop in to see what the Parrots, Spivs and Charlatans are up to.
    > Seems they are all in a flap over one person. "
    >


    oh, i see, i have to word it just right for you:

    so, phil, why do you "pop in" here; why do you post here, when no one
    wants you here?


    yeah, this is a public forum, and democracy is implied. this group is
    an audio-based group by majority rule. majority rules that you're not
    welcome here. but you continue to post. where you are not welcome.
    not wanted.

    are you that lonely?

    i suppose you do have a right to be pathetic.

    i mean, really, phil. honestly. it's pathetic to keep coming back
    and posting where you are actively. not. wanted.


    concerned,
    chris "dickhard" deckard
    saint louis mo
  45. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:46:06 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet.be>
    wrote:

    >Can't believe this, Phil still exists???

    Well, he is one of those creatures from a Star Trek episode where you
    keep shooting at him, and you think he's dead but he just absorbs the
    energy and becomes stronger.

    Only way out is to ignore him off the planet.

    Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
    Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
    Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
  46. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Tracy Wintermute wrote:

    > But ya know what's is worser? Cricks! Yessir, them damn innocent
    > lookin little things'd kill ya soon as lookin at ya.

    If'n ever ya git two of 'em in yo' neck atta same time you's done fo'.

    --
    ha
  47. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Harvey Gerst wrote:

    > I like your version better (but unfortunately, my publisher says I still
    > get all the royalties from it because your work is a "derivative").

    Tracy shoulda used dither. I tried to tell him.

    --
    ha
  48. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Bryson wrote:

    > Because it's still better than how he feels about himself.

    So the asstoriskiness is 'cause he types with his nose while feeling
    about himself.

    --
    ha
  49. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich) wrote in news:1gla5wk.1n05goless42qN%
    walkinay@thegrid.net:

    > Harvey Gerst wrote:
    >
    >> I like your version better (but unfortunately, my publisher says I still
    >> get all the royalties from it because your work is a "derivative").
    >
    > Tracy shoulda used dither. I tried to tell him.

    Then it would have been ditheritave...
    M
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