Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

V710 - Motorola pressured by Verizon to restrict bluetooth

Last response: in Brands
Share
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 2:09:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola (More info?)

I have enlisted the support of a Verizon retail manager (here in a Boston
area store) to help us get Verizon to do the right thing. Please ask the
retail managers in your own regions to pressure their corporate and
marketing departments in a similar manner. Feel free to use any of my text
as your own template for appeal.

Here is a letter to my local Verizon Wireless store manager and also email
exchanges that I had with VZ Wireless Data tech support.
_____________

02-Sep-2004, From Ellery Davies < Ellery (at) StarBus (dot) com >

Hello Jaime. Yesterday, you asked...

> Philip,
> Have you called 800-922-0204 and spoke to our data tech support?
> Please let me know.

Yes, I have contacted Verizon Wireless tech support. And I request that you
add your voice to your customers' concerns, (i.e. because of your position
as a retail manager with direct customer contact)...

There is a raging discussion in the newsgroups about Verizon's decision to
ask Motorola to DISABLE most of the bluetooth capabilities in the V710. Many
people participating in the newsgroup are furious. (Verizon admits that they
crippled this feature before agreeing to resell the new phone ... They claim
that it is for security reasons). Actually, it is to prevent users from
getting photos off of their phones unless they pay Verizon for each photo -
or a higher monthly fee.

When I wrote to Wireless tech support and complained, they told me that they
called bluetooth a "SERVICE feature" and stated that they decided not to
support it for off-loading photos (not even via cable!!) - nor synchronizing
address books.

I pointed out that Verizon's "SERVICE feature" is the offer of sending
pictures over the network and to VZ Pics, but that bluetooth is not a
service feature. It is a basic HARDWARE feature (not at all a service
feature). It is designed and built into the phone by Motorola and promoted
by both Motorola and Verizon. These bluetooth functions are described in the
manual and promoted even on the Verizon branded box in which the phone is
sold! Calling it a "service feature" is like disabling the color display or
the vibrator and calling that a "service feature".

I am happy with my phone, but I am very unhappy that I cannot get 70
pictures off of the phone without paying Verizon and waiting 2 hours. If I
wanted to email these photos to someone else, I could see transmitting them
over the Verizon network, but I just want to use the d*mn camera! When I
asked the support department about that he said that I should not rely on
the phone as my primary camera. He actually told me that I should by another
digital camera (??!?) Can you believe that?

Motorola says that Verizon was insistent on disabling the new features.
Although a few Motorola programmers are willing to secretly update the
phones of Verizon customers, they must be begged on a one-on-one basis and
the next Verizon update may overwrite the correction!! The Motorola rep that
I spoke to was clearly worried about doing this, because it violates their
agreement with Verizon and it may even interfere with the preferred roaming
list feature. As you begin to sense that more and more of your V710
customers are upset over the crippling of their new phones, I request that
you add your voice to this growing community.

Shown below are the email messages that I have exchanged with two different
Verizon support techs...
_____________

26-Aug-2004, From Ellery Davies

Hello Jaime,

You sold me a Motorola V710. (And this week, you credited me the "New Every
Two" discount -- thank you!)

I suspect that you are going to get a lot of customers asking for this same
information... The bluetooth feature works with a headset or as a link to a
modem, but it fails to connect to all other services: Phone book import,
off-load photos, and data exchange.

It appears that this feature has been DISABLED in just the Verizon OEM
version of this phone. When I borrow a NON-Verizon V710, these features work
just fine! I now have dozens of high res images to transfer into my PC and I
don't know how to do this?! I can't even dump them through a data cable,
because the software does not yet support this model. Finally, even if I
found a TransFlash memory card (these are not yet available), my images are
in the built-in memory, so it is too late to transfer the photos in this
manner. Please help me to activate these standard features of the V710.
Please don't tell me to email the photos:

1. They are for me, and not another customer
2. there are too many.
3. They are high-res. It would take hours to transfer.

I really hope that you or someone at Verizon with the secret code helps me
to use the features that Motorola built into this phone.
_____________

02-Sep-2004, From Ellery Davies

Please see both responses from Verizon Wireless Tech Support. Absolutely
incredible that they could frame their response in this manner and then end
with the audacious statement: "We never stop working for you!"

They have promoted and sold a phone that claims to allow 6 Bluetooth
functions. Then they forced Motorola to Disable 4 of the 6 functions even
though they are advertised on the Verizon box, in the ads, and in the
manual. Motorola techs are downright scared to let individual Verizon users
turn the features back on. The first thing they ask you is if you are on the
Verizon network. If you say no, they ask for the ESN to determine if it was
sold through Verizon. That's because they were INSTRUCTED to withhold these
basic hardware features from Verizon customers or else risk losing the
promotion of their phones in stores and in advertising.

Is this the way Verizon "Never stops working for me"??

==> This response is from another "Jamie". This Jamie is with VZW
tech support rather than the sales manager at the Natick store)

I have been a Verizon wireless customer for 12 years. Please read these
responses and please use whatever clout you have to relay the outrage of
your customers to the appropriate people in your marketing department. I
would be glad to use VZPics and email photos. But I do not expect that my
service provider will cripple the phone that they sold me.

Currently Verizon has disabled OBEX and prevents the phone from using
bluetooth for most functions. It is only available for use with a headset or
as a link to a modem. It is not available to synch contact information,
upload addresses via the serial port feature, or transfer photos to and from
a PC
_____________

Dear Ellery Davies,

Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are sorry to
learn that you are having difficulty with downloads your pictures from your
phone. As part of our Worry Free Guarantee, your concern becomes our
concern the first time you contact us. We are happy to assist you with your
question.

I apologize for the inconvenience. Verizon Wireless chose not to support
downloading pictures via a data cable. Downloading pictures from your phone
directly to your computer is a common request; however, not an option that
we support at this time. Your suggestion has been forwarded on to the
appropriate department for further review.

Our camera phones allow you to send picture messages on the spur of the
moment. They do not replace a camera, they allow you to take a picture when
you do not have your camera with you and to be able to share that pictures
with others right away.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.

If you have further questions or concerns, please write to us again through
www.VerizonWireless.com. We appreciate your business and thank you for
choosing Verizon Wireless.

Sincerely, Jamie
Verizon Wireless
Data Technical Support
_____________

26-Aug-2004, From Ellery Davies

RE: Downloading pictures through a cable or through Bluetooth...

Hello Jamie. Thank you for responding so promptly. You said...

... Verizon Wireless chose not to support downloading pictures via
a data cable.
Downloading pictures from your phone directly to your computer is
a common
request; however, not an option that we support at this time.

Verizon offers a service "feature": Sending photos over the Verizon network.
I get it... That's nice.

Motorola offers a HARDWARE FEATURE that is built into this new phone:
Downloading photos with bluetooth (and uploading wallpaper, synchronizing
phonebooks, adding ring-tones, etc). I am not asking Verizon wireless to
"support" this feature. It is an inherent feature of the Motorola phone that
I have just purchased.

I am asking that Verizon unlock the feature that has apparently been
disabled before I even opened the box.

I also take issue with your statement that the phone is not meant to
substitute for a camera. Of course it is!! That's the whole point of packing
1.3 Megapixels into a phone. It is a print-quality camera. Why would I buy
this phone if I intended to carry around another gadget on every outing.
_____________

[From "Erika", Verizon Wireless Data Tech Support]

Bluetooth connectivity is supported. Support for the specific Bluetooth
capabilities and external Motorola devices that work with that device, are
provided by Motorola.

We here at Verizon Wireless Data Technical Support will continue to support
the wireless data products and services that we sell such as Get It Now,
Picture Messaging and our VZW branded Mobile Office Connectivity Kits.

Motorola Technical Support can be reached at 800-331-6456, option 1-7-4-3

Sincerely, Erika
Verizon Wireless
Data Technical Support

"We never stop working for you!"
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 1:36:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola (More info?)

In article <vpj%c.18431$kY1.5009902@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
"Carl Rothman" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:

> Can't photos be saved onto a memory card (which I realize is an
> option) and then uploaded to a computer through a card reader? Or am
> I under a misunderstanding?

Yup, if you want to spend the money for a memory card and card reader,
and remember to save the photos to the card (I believe that you can't
transfer data between the card and the phone), it's an option.

But it shouldn't have to be that way.

--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
Anonymous
September 8, 2004 1:42:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola (More info?)

I understand your point completely. But, in my case, I have the card reader
already built into my HP 1315 printer and they (card readers) are usually
inexpensive anyway.

I just haven't yet looked into what the memory cards cost.

But you're right, it shouldn't have to be that way. But at least there's a
practical work-around.

I didn't buy my phone to be a camera, though. I bought it to be a phone.
And, except for my disappointment in the strength of the vibro-alert (I rely
on that a lot and the V60i was MUCH better at that), it has been a great
phone so far. I love that bluetooth wireless headset feature.

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-4944D2.09362207092004@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <vpj%c.18431$kY1.5009902@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
> "Carl Rothman" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
> > Can't photos be saved onto a memory card (which I realize is an
> > option) and then uploaded to a computer through a card reader? Or am
> > I under a misunderstanding?
>
> Yup, if you want to spend the money for a memory card and card reader,
> and remember to save the photos to the card (I believe that you can't
> transfer data between the card and the phone), it's an option.
>
> But it shouldn't have to be that way.
>
> --
> Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 9, 2004 5:34:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola (More info?)

You can copy or move photos (and sound files) between the phone and the
card...

Any photos or ringtones that you want to use on the phone must first be on
the phone though, not the card...

I wish that there was a way to copy the phonebook and calendar items to a
card, but there doesn't seem to be such an option. Voice memos can be
transferred from the file system view using Bitpim (and the USB cable from
Verizon Wireless mobile office kit).

Anyone know if there is a program for the PC that allows playing of the
videos taken by the phone on the PC?? Seems to me that I read somewhere that
there was, but can't find it now.


"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-4944D2.09362207092004@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <vpj%c.18431$kY1.5009902@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
> "Carl Rothman" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
> > Can't photos be saved onto a memory card (which I realize is an
> > option) and then uploaded to a computer through a card reader? Or am
> > I under a misunderstanding?
>
> Yup, if you want to spend the money for a memory card and card reader,
> and remember to save the photos to the card (I believe that you can't
> transfer data between the card and the phone), it's an option.
>
> But it shouldn't have to be that way.
>
> --
> Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
September 29, 2004 11:24:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.motorola (More info?)

http://www.vxxxstuff.com

"Ellery Davies" <See-Reply-Addr@Nospam.com> wrote in message news:<hSMZc.22770$_g7.10498@attbi_s52>...
> I have enlisted the support of a Verizon retail manager (here in a Boston
> area store) to help us get Verizon to do the right thing. Please ask the
> retail managers in your own regions to pressure their corporate and
> marketing departments in a similar manner. Feel free to use any of my text
> as your own template for appeal.
>
> Here is a letter to my local Verizon Wireless store manager and also email
> exchanges that I had with VZ Wireless Data tech support.
> _____________
>
> 02-Sep-2004, From Ellery Davies < Ellery (at) StarBus (dot) com >
>
> Hello Jaime. Yesterday, you asked...
>
> > Philip,
> > Have you called 800-922-0204 and spoke to our data tech support?
> > Please let me know.
>
> Yes, I have contacted Verizon Wireless tech support. And I request that you
> add your voice to your customers' concerns, (i.e. because of your position
> as a retail manager with direct customer contact)...
>
> There is a raging discussion in the newsgroups about Verizon's decision to
> ask Motorola to DISABLE most of the bluetooth capabilities in the V710. Many
> people participating in the newsgroup are furious. (Verizon admits that they
> crippled this feature before agreeing to resell the new phone ... They claim
> that it is for security reasons). Actually, it is to prevent users from
> getting photos off of their phones unless they pay Verizon for each photo -
> or a higher monthly fee.
>
> When I wrote to Wireless tech support and complained, they told me that they
> called bluetooth a "SERVICE feature" and stated that they decided not to
> support it for off-loading photos (not even via cable!!) - nor synchronizing
> address books.
>
> I pointed out that Verizon's "SERVICE feature" is the offer of sending
> pictures over the network and to VZ Pics, but that bluetooth is not a
> service feature. It is a basic HARDWARE feature (not at all a service
> feature). It is designed and built into the phone by Motorola and promoted
> by both Motorola and Verizon. These bluetooth functions are described in the
> manual and promoted even on the Verizon branded box in which the phone is
> sold! Calling it a "service feature" is like disabling the color display or
> the vibrator and calling that a "service feature".
>
> I am happy with my phone, but I am very unhappy that I cannot get 70
> pictures off of the phone without paying Verizon and waiting 2 hours. If I
> wanted to email these photos to someone else, I could see transmitting them
> over the Verizon network, but I just want to use the d*mn camera! When I
> asked the support department about that he said that I should not rely on
> the phone as my primary camera. He actually told me that I should by another
> digital camera (??!?) Can you believe that?
>
> Motorola says that Verizon was insistent on disabling the new features.
> Although a few Motorola programmers are willing to secretly update the
> phones of Verizon customers, they must be begged on a one-on-one basis and
> the next Verizon update may overwrite the correction!! The Motorola rep that
> I spoke to was clearly worried about doing this, because it violates their
> agreement with Verizon and it may even interfere with the preferred roaming
> list feature. As you begin to sense that more and more of your V710
> customers are upset over the crippling of their new phones, I request that
> you add your voice to this growing community.
>
> Shown below are the email messages that I have exchanged with two different
> Verizon support techs...
> _____________
>
> 26-Aug-2004, From Ellery Davies
>
> Hello Jaime,
>
> You sold me a Motorola V710. (And this week, you credited me the "New Every
> Two" discount -- thank you!)
>
> I suspect that you are going to get a lot of customers asking for this same
> information... The bluetooth feature works with a headset or as a link to a
> modem, but it fails to connect to all other services: Phone book import,
> off-load photos, and data exchange.
>
> It appears that this feature has been DISABLED in just the Verizon OEM
> version of this phone. When I borrow a NON-Verizon V710, these features work
> just fine! I now have dozens of high res images to transfer into my PC and I
> don't know how to do this?! I can't even dump them through a data cable,
> because the software does not yet support this model. Finally, even if I
> found a TransFlash memory card (these are not yet available), my images are
> in the built-in memory, so it is too late to transfer the photos in this
> manner. Please help me to activate these standard features of the V710.
> Please don't tell me to email the photos:
>
> 1. They are for me, and not another customer
> 2. there are too many.
> 3. They are high-res. It would take hours to transfer.
>
> I really hope that you or someone at Verizon with the secret code helps me
> to use the features that Motorola built into this phone.
> _____________
>
> 02-Sep-2004, From Ellery Davies
>
> Please see both responses from Verizon Wireless Tech Support. Absolutely
> incredible that they could frame their response in this manner and then end
> with the audacious statement: "We never stop working for you!"
>
> They have promoted and sold a phone that claims to allow 6 Bluetooth
> functions. Then they forced Motorola to Disable 4 of the 6 functions even
> though they are advertised on the Verizon box, in the ads, and in the
> manual. Motorola techs are downright scared to let individual Verizon users
> turn the features back on. The first thing they ask you is if you are on the
> Verizon network. If you say no, they ask for the ESN to determine if it was
> sold through Verizon. That's because they were INSTRUCTED to withhold these
> basic hardware features from Verizon customers or else risk losing the
> promotion of their phones in stores and in advertising.
>
> Is this the way Verizon "Never stops working for me"??
>
> ==> This response is from another "Jamie". This Jamie is with VZW
> tech support rather than the sales manager at the Natick store)
>
> I have been a Verizon wireless customer for 12 years. Please read these
> responses and please use whatever clout you have to relay the outrage of
> your customers to the appropriate people in your marketing department. I
> would be glad to use VZPics and email photos. But I do not expect that my
> service provider will cripple the phone that they sold me.
>
> Currently Verizon has disabled OBEX and prevents the phone from using
> bluetooth for most functions. It is only available for use with a headset or
> as a link to a modem. It is not available to synch contact information,
> upload addresses via the serial port feature, or transfer photos to and from
> a PC
> _____________
>
> Dear Ellery Davies,
>
> Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are sorry to
> learn that you are having difficulty with downloads your pictures from your
> phone. As part of our Worry Free Guarantee, your concern becomes our
> concern the first time you contact us. We are happy to assist you with your
> question.
>
> I apologize for the inconvenience. Verizon Wireless chose not to support
> downloading pictures via a data cable. Downloading pictures from your phone
> directly to your computer is a common request; however, not an option that
> we support at this time. Your suggestion has been forwarded on to the
> appropriate department for further review.
>
> Our camera phones allow you to send picture messages on the spur of the
> moment. They do not replace a camera, they allow you to take a picture when
> you do not have your camera with you and to be able to share that pictures
> with others right away.
>
> Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.
>
> If you have further questions or concerns, please write to us again through
> www.VerizonWireless.com. We appreciate your business and thank you for
> choosing Verizon Wireless.
>
> Sincerely, Jamie
> Verizon Wireless
> Data Technical Support
> _____________
>
> 26-Aug-2004, From Ellery Davies
>
> RE: Downloading pictures through a cable or through Bluetooth...
>
> Hello Jamie. Thank you for responding so promptly. You said...
>
> ... Verizon Wireless chose not to support downloading pictures via
> a data cable.
> Downloading pictures from your phone directly to your computer is
> a common
> request; however, not an option that we support at this time.
>
> Verizon offers a service "feature": Sending photos over the Verizon network.
> I get it... That's nice.
>
> Motorola offers a HARDWARE FEATURE that is built into this new phone:
> Downloading photos with bluetooth (and uploading wallpaper, synchronizing
> phonebooks, adding ring-tones, etc). I am not asking Verizon wireless to
> "support" this feature. It is an inherent feature of the Motorola phone that
> I have just purchased.
>
> I am asking that Verizon unlock the feature that has apparently been
> disabled before I even opened the box.
>
> I also take issue with your statement that the phone is not meant to
> substitute for a camera. Of course it is!! That's the whole point of packing
> 1.3 Megapixels into a phone. It is a print-quality camera. Why would I buy
> this phone if I intended to carry around another gadget on every outing.
> _____________
>
> [From "Erika", Verizon Wireless Data Tech Support]
>
> Bluetooth connectivity is supported. Support for the specific Bluetooth
> capabilities and external Motorola devices that work with that device, are
> provided by Motorola.
>
> We here at Verizon Wireless Data Technical Support will continue to support
> the wireless data products and services that we sell such as Get It Now,
> Picture Messaging and our VZW branded Mobile Office Connectivity Kits.
>
> Motorola Technical Support can be reached at 800-331-6456, option 1-7-4-3
>
> Sincerely, Erika
> Verizon Wireless
> Data Technical Support
>
> "We never stop working for you!"
!