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Recording Church Services

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September 26, 2004 7:24:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we use
tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also, they
can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double speed
to reduce this time.

We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
process.

I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
onty several CDs at a time.

Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
using a PC for recording.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 7:24:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com> tspill@talk21.com writes:

> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.

Sounds like a plan. I'm not familiar with those models, but you'll
probably want to get a recorder that uses standard CD-R blanks rather
than requires the special audio blanks.

> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.

I can appreciate that. A CD recorder works pretty much like a tape
deck.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 9:02:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hi,

> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.

It's a potentially good way to go; the recording blanks are certainly cheap
enough if you buy in bulk, and you'll get a better result than you've been
getting with an old, beat-out tape deck.

The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
these are usually so tight that they clip the first few milliseconds of the
new track -- not an issue all the time, but it could be if someone's looking
for a particular segment. If it doesn't trigger automatically, though, the
operator will need the skill to hit the appropriate button to begin a new
track as one segment ends and another begins. Not a hard task, but it's one
more thing to remember.

Not insuperable challenges, but things to think about. Of coure, you could
record on CD-R, clean up in a PC, then duplicate.

Peace,
Paul
Related resources
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 11:35:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I need to find a new way to record our church services....
>
> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.

A Marantz PMD-670 solid state recorder would work, then split the file
on a PC or Mac, arrange for a CD, then copy.

HTH

Marc

--
Marc Heusser
(remove the obvious: CHEERS and MERICAL...until end to reply via email)
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 11:35:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@CHEERSheusser.comMERCIALSPAMMERS.invalid>
scribbled:

> In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com>,
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to find a new way to record our church services....
>>
>> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or
>> the Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console
>> (Allen and Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD
>> Duplicator to copy this onty several CDs at a time.
>>
>> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity
>> of using a PC for recording.
>
> A Marantz PMD-670 solid state recorder would work, then split the file
> on a PC or Mac, arrange for a CD, then copy.
>
> HTH
>
> Marc
>

Or a PMD-570, which is basically a rack-mounted version of the 670 and
without the mic inputs. Plus the 570/670 can record directly to mp3
files. Just email the church service to those who want it!
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 12:54:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Will you be wanting the duplicate CDs immediately after the service? If so,
then recording directly to CD makes more sense. If not, you might consider a
hard disk recorder or integrated unit like the Alesis Masterlink which can
record in 24 bit, and copy down onto CD. Having the extra bit depth would help
if the recording level was set too low, or if you needed more headroom.

Remember, recording digitally does not have the same forgiving qualities as
tape. If your levels go too high - you distort. period.

-lee-
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 12:56:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.
>

This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't know
about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of older
people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch because
you WILL SURELY hear about it.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 12:56:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Why is the lack of CD players a problem..... buy them one... you are still
ahead on copying costs aggravation....

Rgds:
Eric

"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2G5d.116491$MQ5.106028@attbi_s52...
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
>
> This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't
know
> about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of older
> people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
> didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch because
> you WILL SURELY hear about it.
>
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 2:28:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we use
> tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also, they
> can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double
speed
> to reduce this time.
>
> We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> process.
>
> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.

The PC is definitely manditory for editing and tweaking, but you don't have
to be the one using it or even buying it. Here's a system I've set up at
another church:

- find someone equipped and capable of doing the editing on the PC (very
basic stuff, shouldn't be hard), offer them $25 per service
- buy a Nomad Jukebox 3 for ~$250, records digitally to hard drive with 33
hour capacity in CD quality, the size of a discman
- drop by the editor's place with the recorder, hook it up to his/her PC
over Firewire, transfer takes under 2 minutes for every hour of footage
- editor should have finished product ready the next day which sounds 10x
better and 10x more professional than an unedited tape
- duplicate as required

The problem of many older people not having CD players is a valid one, and a
way to treat that is to ask the congregation and perhaps place a classified
ad asking for obselete but working CD players, since they're not worth $20
these days, and folks generally come through. BUT ** make sure they can
play burned CD-R's ** before giving them out.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 2:31:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
>using a PC for recording.
>
>Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>
Use a PC and save yourself a lot of headaches. Feed out of the A-H into the
audio PC card (could be mono or stereo).
There are lots of inexpensive programs to use. I used to use a free program
named "Audacity". Has recording and editing capabilities. Then download to CD
or tape.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Make sure you place the PC on a UPS for power failure.


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 4:05:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I use an Akai DPS 16. This is a digital hard disk 16 track recorder and
mixer where you can record the service, then cut the long track into as many
segments as you like, and burn these segments as tracks onto CD via SCSI.

You can get 24 track DPS for around £2000 and a DPS16 second hand for much
less.

Not only is this great for recording services, since you can have to 8 mics
spread around the church, but it is so small and compact, giving everything
from recording, mixing, editing and CD burning from the one Unit. You can
insert silence when needed and you can enhance when required.

Incidentally, it is also great for recording choirs and music groups,
liturgy groups, reflections and seminars, etc.

I am busy recording a Christmas CD at the moment with the church musicians
and children of the liturgy groups.

Depending on how many copies you need of a CD, it might be best to make the
master from the AKAI and then use a conventional PC CD recorder to churn out
copies. You can also master onto casette, mini dic, dat tape, of course.
Hope this helps.
Jim
"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hi,
>
> I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we use
> tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also, they
> can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double
> speed
> to reduce this time.
>
> We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> process.
>
> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.
>
> Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 4:16:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler wrote:
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
>>Hi,
>
>
>>I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
>>Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
>>Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
>>onty several CDs at a time.
>>
>>Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
>>using a PC for recording.
>
>
> It's a potentially good way to go; the recording blanks are certainly cheap
> enough if you buy in bulk, and you'll get a better result than you've been
> getting with an old, beat-out tape deck.
>
> The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
> enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,

I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.

What I do is digitally record the entire service and cut everything
but the sermon in editing. That way I don't miss anything, and I can
find the right place for track breaks. Sometimes time-consuming, but
at least possible. Also, I always find something that needs adjusting,
like the Pastor clapping in front of his lapel mic.

> Not insuperable challenges, but things to think about. Of coure, you could
> record on CD-R, clean up in a PC, then duplicate.

If I could, I would do a digital recording and a "live" CD, so anyone in
a hurry could get the CD the same day, and if I didn't have time to do
the editing, there would still be a CD available the next week. Too bad
we can't afford the equipment.

--
Phil Nelson
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 5:28:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I agree with this approach. I record our service every week on my laptop
and I edit it the way I want it. The only problem that I have seen with
laptops is that some do not have a line input, instead they have a mic only
input (overload). One time, my old computer did crash and I lost the
service but they still let me do it anyway.

John


"Wayne" <ybstudios@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040926183105.22172.00001218@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> >using a PC for recording.
> >
> >Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >
> Use a PC and save yourself a lot of headaches. Feed out of the A-H into
the
> audio PC card (could be mono or stereo).
> There are lots of inexpensive programs to use. I used to use a free
program
> named "Audacity". Has recording and editing capabilities. Then download
to CD
> or tape.
>
> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
>
> Make sure you place the PC on a UPS for power failure.
>
>
> --Wayne
>
> -"sounded good to me"-
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 5:32:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I found this to be painfully true also. Using my laptop, I make a CD of the
service and then I use it to make the tapes. I usually apply compression to
improve integillibility.

John


"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2G5d.116491$MQ5.106028@attbi_s52...
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
>
> This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't
know
> about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of older
> people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
> didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch because
> you WILL SURELY hear about it.
>
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 6:10:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Eric K. Weber" <eric-nospam@webermusic.com> wrote in message
news:jIJ5d.19$Tl.55347@news.uswest.net...
> Why is the lack of CD players a problem..... buy them one... you are
> still
> ahead on copying costs aggravation....

I almost did that exact thing. I wasn't going to buy them one but was going
to work out a deal with Wal-Mart where they could purchase a little boombox
type for a little above cost. Even at retail they're very inexpensive. In
the long run you're right it would be cheaper to provide them one than
keeping making tape. I feel if someone wants to listen bad enough they'll
get one.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 6:11:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsp5646@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u4K5d.39705$ci3.1723403@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>I found this to be painfully true also. Using my laptop, I make a CD of
>the
> service and then I use it to make the tapes. I usually apply compression
> to
> improve integillibility.

There's a good hybrid solution.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 2:27:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <GZI5d.15218$54.231877@typhoon.sonic.net> pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net writes:

> > The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
> > enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
>
> I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
> that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.
>
> What I do is digitally record the entire service and cut everything
> but the sermon in editing. That way I don't miss anything, and I can
> find the right place for track breaks. Sometimes time-consuming, but
> at least possible. Also, I always find something that needs adjusting,
> like the Pastor clapping in front of his lapel mic.

There's no getting around it - taking a raw recording and turning it
into something consumer-friendly takes time. That's what recording
engineers get paid for. The problem with a church gig is that it's
rarely a paying gig, so there's a temptation to try to find timesaving
shortcuts.

My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
tax. Then do the job that's required.

> If I could, I would do a digital recording and a "live" CD, so anyone in
> a hurry could get the CD the same day, and if I didn't have time to do
> the editing, there would still be a CD available the next week. Too bad
> we can't afford the equipment.

Make a schedule. This week's CD will be available next Sunday. Count
on it. Who needs it the next day except maybe someone who's dying (in
which case the minister will probably come around for a personal
visit).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:11:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com> in rec.audio.pro on
Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:24:44 +0000 (UTC), TS <tspill@talk21.com> says...
> Hi,
>
> I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we use
> tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also, they
> can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double speed
> to reduce this time.
>
> We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> process.
>
> I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
> Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
> Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
> onty several CDs at a time.
>
> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.
>
> Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

The biggest issue with CDs is, ho hum, you can't just stop a CD and come
back to it later like you can with a tape.

The next best solution is to split the whole recording into 1 minute
tracks, which can be done with some readily available software.

Other than that, it's a good plan, being used by lots of churches now.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:11:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I never thought of the 1 minute tracks, interesting. What is the name of
the software package that will do this?

Some of our people just want the sermon while some want the full service
(especially the music) so I cut the service into three tracks.

1. Start of service to sermon
2. Sermon
3. After sermon to the end of service.

I then make the sermon track 1 with the other two following.

John


"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bc213c39646aa9798a504@news.paradise.net.nz...
> In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com> in rec.audio.pro on
> Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:24:44 +0000 (UTC), TS <tspill@talk21.com> says...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we
use
> > tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also,
they
> > can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double
speed
> > to reduce this time.
> >
> > We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> > process.
> >
> > I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or
the
> > Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen
and
> > Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy
this
> > onty several CDs at a time.
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
> > Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
> The biggest issue with CDs is, ho hum, you can't just stop a CD and come
> back to it later like you can with a tape.
>
> The next best solution is to split the whole recording into 1 minute
> tracks, which can be done with some readily available software.
>
> Other than that, it's a good plan, being used by lots of churches now.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:11:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsp5646@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wiK5d.39709$ci3.1724465@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>I never thought of the 1 minute tracks, interesting. What is the name of
> the software package that will do this?

Why can't they just hold down the fast forward button and watch the timer?
Without liner notes the 60 tracks (assuming 1 per minute in a one hour
service) wouldn't be much of a reference. And I KNOW you're not going to sit
down and make out a track list each week per minute. You might want to put a
track marker at each "change" though, as before each song, before each
prayer, before the sermon, etc. I think this would be more helpful to
anybody wanting random access.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:11:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have never done this but someone else did. I make three tracks with the
whole sermon being a track. After recording the service and transferring to
CD for the last 3 years, I have never heard a request to be able to find
particular minute but it does stimulate thought. It takes enough time now
so I am not looking for ways to increase it. If I wanted to do 1 minute
tracks, an automatic program would reduce the time at the computer.

John



"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IHK5d.57506$wV.52168@attbi_s54...
> "John Phillips" <jsp5646@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:wiK5d.39709$ci3.1724465@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> >I never thought of the 1 minute tracks, interesting. What is the name of
> > the software package that will do this?
>
> Why can't they just hold down the fast forward button and watch the timer?
> Without liner notes the 60 tracks (assuming 1 per minute in a one hour
> service) wouldn't be much of a reference. And I KNOW you're not going to
sit
> down and make out a track list each week per minute. You might want to put
a
> track marker at each "change" though, as before each song, before each
> prayer, before the sermon, etc. I think this would be more helpful to
> anybody wanting random access.
>
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:11:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsp5646@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:80Q5d.40680$ci3.1741150@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>I have never done this but someone else did. I make three tracks with the
> whole sermon being a track. After recording the service and transferring
> to
> CD for the last 3 years, I have never heard a request to be able to find
> particular minute but it does stimulate thought. It takes enough time now
> so I am not looking for ways to increase it. If I wanted to do 1 minute
> tracks, an automatic program would reduce the time at the computer.

If you couldn't find a program you could always using something like CDRWIN
and just a standard CUE sheet with markers every minute. After all it would
be the same every week except the length would vary a little. Just pull it
up in a word processor and chop it off at the same length as the CD.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:14:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <c2G5d.116491$MQ5.106028@attbi_s52> in rec.audio.pro on Sun,
26 Sep 2004 20:56:40 GMT, Ricky W. Hunt <rhunt22@hotmail.com> says...
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
>
> This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't know
> about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of older
> people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
> didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch because
> you WILL SURELY hear about it.

Yeah, we looked at this, and it came down to the same thing in the end.
In Third World countries, if you have some kind of international tape
ministry, it's an issue too.

Regardless, it is now becoming more common for stuff to be recorded and
distributed on CD, as the duplications can be done right after the
service so people can pick their copies up straight away. There are
commercial duplicators made that can produce simultaneous copies.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:14:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bc21468da20655098a505@news.paradise.net.nz...
>
> Regardless, it is now becoming more common for stuff to be recorded and
> distributed on CD, as the duplications can be done right after the
> service so people can pick their copies up straight away. There are
> commercial duplicators made that can produce simultaneous copies.

FWIW I just ended up going with CD (this was for a personal music project,
not service recording). I couldn't justify the headache and cost of tape.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:14:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There is a lot of attraction to this approach because you do not have
homework to do, it is done at the church. However because of cost, I have a
sign-up sheet for each sermon and produce the tape or CD during the week and
deliver them on at the next service.

John


"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bc21468da20655098a505@news.paradise.net.nz...
> In article <c2G5d.116491$MQ5.106028@attbi_s52> in rec.audio.pro on Sun,
> 26 Sep 2004 20:56:40 GMT, Ricky W. Hunt <rhunt22@hotmail.com> says...
> > "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> > news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity
of
> > > using a PC for recording.
> > >
> >
> > This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't
know
> > about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of
older
> > people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
> > didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch
because
> > you WILL SURELY hear about it.
>
> Yeah, we looked at this, and it came down to the same thing in the end.
> In Third World countries, if you have some kind of international tape
> ministry, it's an issue too.
>
> Regardless, it is now becoming more common for stuff to be recorded and
> distributed on CD, as the duplications can be done right after the
> service so people can pick their copies up straight away. There are
> commercial duplicators made that can produce simultaneous copies.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:14:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It boggles my mind that people want to listen to recordings of church
services.

Hal Laurent
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 3:14:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Hal Laurent" wrote...
> It boggles my mind that people want to listen to recordings of church
> services.

Likely the same subset of people who actually attend church services.

OTOH, I can't believe that people want to listen to recordings of
"rap "music"".
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 6:56:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <GZI5d.15218$54.231877@typhoon.sonic.net> pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net writes:
>
>
>>>The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
>>>enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
>>
>>I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
>>that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.
>>
>>What I do is digitally record the entire service and cut everything
>>but the sermon in editing. That way I don't miss anything, and I can
>>find the right place for track breaks. Sometimes time-consuming, but
>>at least possible. Also, I always find something that needs adjusting,
>>like the Pastor clapping in front of his lapel mic.
>
>
> There's no getting around it - taking a raw recording and turning it
> into something consumer-friendly takes time. That's what recording
> engineers get paid for. The problem with a church gig is that it's
> rarely a paying gig, so there's a temptation to try to find timesaving
> shortcuts.
>
> My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
> you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
> equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
> tax. Then do the job that's required.
>

My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
If you know of a way to do this that is considered acceptable by the
IRS, I would be very happy to hear it. In case I ever again make enough
money to owe income tax (I am a telecom/.com casualty, still looking for
a way to make a living after 3 years).

>>If I could, I would do a digital recording and a "live" CD, so anyone in
>>a hurry could get the CD the same day, and if I didn't have time to do
>>the editing, there would still be a CD available the next week. Too bad
>>we can't afford the equipment.
>
>
> Make a schedule. This week's CD will be available next Sunday. Count
> on it. Who needs it the next day except maybe someone who's dying (in
> which case the minister will probably come around for a personal
> visit).

That's pretty much what happens now (except I too often can't get it
done in 1 week and there are no volunteers interested in backing me
up). We still have tapes, which are "live" unless I make a remaster
to fix something particularly annoying, like the Pastor talking
longer than one side of the master tape.

--
Phil Nelson
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 6:56:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

About 3 months ago I purchased just such a system for my church:
1 HHB CD Recorder - happy with it so far
1 CD-R (actually DVD-R) 1x7 duplicator tower
1 Epson Printer - the one that prints directly onto CDs and DVDs

We record only the special music (soloists, groups, etc.) and the message.

The issue in these cases is: Who is the target consumer, and what do
they expect from the product.

We are not marketing these recordings outside the church and the
membership is just happy to get something that beats the quality of the
cassette recordings, which we still do for those requiring that format.

So in our case we just do our best to get the best original recording we
can and duplicate straight from the original master.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 7:57:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fSV5d.15253$54.233755@typhoon.sonic.net> pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net writes:

> > My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
> > you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
> > equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
> > tax. Then do the job that's required.
> >
>
> My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
> If you know of a way to do this that is considered acceptable by the
> IRS, I would be very happy to hear it.

Ask your tax accountant about donation of "in kind" services. You
don't want to get too absurd about it - it has to be a service that
the church would pay for if you didn't offer to do it without cash
payment. And you probably would get questioned if you charged
$150/hour for four hours a week and wrote it off as a donation, but
you could get something out of it. In some instances, you may have to
actually get paid and then donate that payment to the church. That's
documentation in itself. Again, the fee has to be reasonable.

There's an exception for an "everybody does it" case, like I can't
deduct $500 per day for running sound at a stage at an all-volunteer
folk festival.

> In case I ever again make enough
> money to owe income tax (I am a telecom/.com casualty, still looking for
> a way to make a living after 3 years).

Well, that's a problem. You need some taxable income in order to
realize the benefits of charitable donations. Otherwise you're just
being charitable, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't let
it take over your life (as a friend of mine does, all too often).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
September 27, 2004 8:51:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Leoaw3" <leoaw3@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040926165455.07384.00001714@mb-m29.aol.com...
> Will you be wanting the duplicate CDs immediately after the service? If
so,
> then recording directly to CD makes more sense. If not, you might
consider a
> hard disk recorder or integrated unit like the Alesis Masterlink which can
> record in 24 bit, and copy down onto CD. Having the extra bit depth would
help
> if the recording level was set too low, or if you needed more headroom.
>
> Remember, recording digitally does not have the same forgiving qualities
as
> tape. If your levels go too high - you distort. period.
>
> -lee-

Thanks,
The requirement is for them to be available asap on the Sunday which is why
I am keen on recording dirently to CD.
I had forgottem about the clipping of high levels. We already use a
compressor for the tapes, maybe I need another one after this to limit the
signal further.

Cheers
TS
September 27, 2004 8:53:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2G5d.116491$MQ5.106028@attbi_s52...
> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
>
> This is a side note but I've just run into a problem with this. I don't
know
> about your church but most churches tend to have a preponderance of older
> people, many of which do not have CD players. I was stunned at how many
> didn't. You might want to check on this before you make the switch because
> you WILL SURELY hear about it.
>
>
Thanks for the response.
We will still be doing tapes for these people an week behind. The issue we
have is that we have study groups that use the sunday sermon as a basis and
we need to get a recording to them asap if they miss the service and most of
them wil have CD players.
September 27, 2004 8:57:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bc213c39646aa9798a504@news.paradise.net.nz...
> In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com> in rec.audio.pro on
> Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:24:44 +0000 (UTC), TS <tspill@talk21.com> says...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we
use
> > tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also,
they
> > can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double
speed
> > to reduce this time.
> >
> > We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> > process.
> >
> > I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or
the
> > Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen
and
> > Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy
this
> > onty several CDs at a time.
> >
> > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> > using a PC for recording.
> >
> > Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
>
> The biggest issue with CDs is, ho hum, you can't just stop a CD and come
> back to it later like you can with a tape.
>
> The next best solution is to split the whole recording into 1 minute
> tracks, which can be done with some readily available software.
>
> Other than that, it's a good plan, being used by lots of churches now.

Is there a piece of s/w that does this 1 minute track split automatically
(with no gaps)? Where can I get it?

Cheers
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 9:32:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:56:11 GMT, Phil Nelson
<pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>>
>> My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
>> you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
>> equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
>> tax. Then do the job that's required.
>>
>
> My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
> If you know of a way to do this that is considered acceptable by the
> IRS, I would be very happy to hear it. In case I ever again make enough
> money to owe income tax (I am a telecom/.com casualty, still looking for
> a way to make a living after 3 years).
>

"A donation in the name of Fred Garvey has been made to . . . "

Common to things like "Celebrity Jeopardy" and "Celebrity Poker"

The donation is both income and a deduction.

Consult a competant tax attorney. Our church gets service donations
from contractors of various kinds, so clearly there's a way to make
things work.
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 10:24:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:56:11 GMT, Phil Nelson
> <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>
>>>My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
>>>you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
>>>equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
>>>tax.

>>My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.

> "A donation in the name of Fred Garvey has been made to . . . "
>
> Common to things like "Celebrity Jeopardy" and "Celebrity Poker"
>
> The donation is both income and a deduction.

If it's both income and a deduction, then why bother? If you do
one hour at $100, then aren't you getting $100 of income and
a $100 deduction? In that case, you're adding $100 to your
taxable income and then immediately subtracting $100. So, why
not just forget about the paperwork since it's not changing
your taxes at all?

- Logan
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 10:44:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

TS wrote:

> I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we use
> tapes

> We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> process.

I would be really tempted to get a computer to do everything on.
The configuration I'd get is:
- 1 GB of RAM (or even 1.5 GB)
- two hard drives (one system, one really big one for audio data)
- two CD burners
- decent quality sound card

With 1 GB of RAM and two CD burners, you have enough RAM that the
entire contents of one CD will fit in RAM. So, you should easily
be able to burn two or more CDs at once. (Put the two CD burners
on separate IDE buses.) If you burn at 16x or something, you can
probably burn an hour-long audio CD in less than 10 minutes,
maybe even like 6 or 7 minutes. Since you're doing 2 at once,
you can average 10 or 15 CDs per hour. (Personally, I would use
Linux, because then I could script the CD duplication part of
the process so that it's completely or mostly automatic once
it knows where the current CD image is located. You can't get
ProTools for Linux, but you can get some software that is
probably good enough for the simple editing you'd need to do.)

Of course, this idea only makes sense if you are not making lots
and lots of copies, and if you are the one who is making the copies.
If someone else makes the copies, it's probably better to have a
separate machine for them to use. (At my church, the people at
the little info booth sell the tapes and also run the tape
duplicator, which works out well since they are the ones who know
how many copies they need.) At some point (10 or 20 copies), the
duplicator machine is going to be a better solution because its
efficiency at bulk copies will outweigh the time cost of exporting
something out of the computer editing software in a format
that the CD duplicator can read.

> Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
> using a PC for recording.

My own impression is that a dedicated CD recorder is more of a pain
than using a PC. With a PC, you don't have to worry about running
out of space as long as your hard disk isn't full. The CD recorder
I've been using will totally give up and erase all the audio if
the disk fills up, though, and probably the newer ones are better.
Plus, if you are going to edit on a computer anyway, you already
have a computer involved, and if you record to a CD and then import
onto the computer, you have the extra time of importing the data.

- Logan
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 10:53:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:24:43 GMT, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:56:11 GMT, Phil Nelson
>> <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
>>>>you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
>>>>equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
>>>>tax.
>
>>>My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
>
>> "A donation in the name of Fred Garvey has been made to . . . "
>>
>> Common to things like "Celebrity Jeopardy" and "Celebrity Poker"
>>
>> The donation is both income and a deduction.
>
> If it's both income and a deduction, then why bother? If you do
> one hour at $100, then aren't you getting $100 of income and
> a $100 deduction? In that case, you're adding $100 to your
> taxable income and then immediately subtracting $100. So, why
> not just forget about the paperwork since it's not changing
> your taxes at all?
>
> - Logan

Which is why I used the words "competant tax attorney" and not "some guy
in Jersey who's a frustrated songwriter and musician with a bare-bones
studio in his basement but whose actual JOB is Software Engineer."
:) 
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 11:03:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 26 Sep 2004 20:54:55 GMT, leoaw3@aol.comnospam (Leoaw3) wrote:

>Will you be wanting the duplicate CDs immediately after the service? If so,
>then recording directly to CD makes more sense. If not, you might consider a
>hard disk recorder or integrated unit like the Alesis Masterlink which can
>record in 24 bit, and copy down onto CD. Having the extra bit depth would help
>if the recording level was set too low, or if you needed more headroom.
>
>Remember, recording digitally does not have the same forgiving qualities as
>tape. If your levels go too high - you distort. period.

Our setup has a limiter (Alesis Microcompressor or whatever model
it is, set for highest compression ratio) just before the recorder to
keep those extra-loud spoken passages from clipping the recorder. But
this is for recording what's meant to be the "final" CDR. If we were
recording something that was going to be worked on later, I'd record
at a lower level (the CDR's have more dynamic range than our mics and
pres) so peaks won't clip and deal with it in post.

>-lee-

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 11:09:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:56:11 GMT, Phil Nelson
> <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>
>>>My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
>>>you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
>>>equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
>>>tax. Then do the job that's required.
>>>
>>
>>My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
>>If you know of a way to do this that is considered acceptable by the
>>IRS, I would be very happy to hear it. In case I ever again make enough
>>money to owe income tax (I am a telecom/.com casualty, still looking for
>>a way to make a living after 3 years).
>>
>
>
> "A donation in the name of Fred Garvey has been made to . . . "
>
> Common to things like "Celebrity Jeopardy" and "Celebrity Poker"
>
> The donation is both income and a deduction.
>
> Consult a competant tax attorney. Our church gets service donations
> from contractors of various kinds, so clearly there's a way to make
> things work.

Clearly that's not a problem, and I have taken deductions for donations
of goods and cash. I don't remember all the details, but I believe I
have been told in the past someone on staff that for a member (who is
presumably giving regularly) things are different. Or maybe they just
don't want to do it.

--
Phil Nelson
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 11:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:16:38 GMT, Phil Nelson
<pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:

>Paul Stamler wrote:
>> "TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
>> news:cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>>
>>>Hi,
>>
>>
>>>I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or the
>>>Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen and
>>>Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy this
>>>onty several CDs at a time.
>>>
>>>Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity of
>>>using a PC for recording.
>>
>>
>> It's a potentially good way to go; the recording blanks are certainly cheap
>> enough if you buy in bulk, and you'll get a better result than you've been
>> getting with an old, beat-out tape deck.
>>
>> The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
>> enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
>
>I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
>that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.

Does he not follow the Order Of Service? Is it an option to get a
new minister?
I forget what model CDR recorder we have, but the main complaint I
have is that the track-increment button is on the remote, and there's
no such button on the recorder's front panel.

>What I do is digitally record the entire service and cut everything
>but the sermon in editing. That way I don't miss anything, and I can
>find the right place for track breaks. Sometimes time-consuming, but
>at least possible. Also, I always find something that needs adjusting,
>like the Pastor clapping in front of his lapel mic.

There's a program that makes this incredibly fast, it's at
cdwave.com. Also, if you use the "save .cue file" feature and then
load the .cue file in a CD burner program that recognizes it, you'll
be amazed that you can split and hour's worth of 20 tracks in as
little as ten minutes or less. If you're going record on hard disk or
rip the CDR to a PC anyway, it's well worth using it.

>
>> Not insuperable challenges, but things to think about. Of coure, you could
>> record on CD-R, clean up in a PC, then duplicate.
>
>If I could, I would do a digital recording and a "live" CD, so anyone in
>a hurry could get the CD the same day, and if I didn't have time to do
>the editing, there would still be a CD available the next week. Too bad
>we can't afford the equipment.

I don't see equipment cost as a problem. We record our services on
CDR, when there's been a special musical service, I've ripped it on my
computer at home, adjusted levels/cut silence as appropriate, split
tracks with cdwave and made copies for participants and to replace the
original CDR. I've thought about recording to an older PC (a 200MHz
machine is fine for recording a stereo CD data rate), but the problems
are:
1. the idea of adding a PC and monitor to the rack of equipment,
and what it would look like (an LCD monitor would look better, but
they cost actual money), and
2. the idea that when I'm not there (either not at the service, or
worse, up front singing) and someone else does sound (a volunteer who
may barely know how to get sound), do they really need to learn to run
some DAW software as well as everything else they need to do? I'm
moving away, so I won't be doing sound here regularly for much longer.
OTOH, this is a UU congregation (smalish, not much money) that for
some reason has DSL (probably for last-minute sermon research...),
WiFi, and a separate server machine (others handle all this, I have no
involvement), so why not have the service recorded to hard disk as
well as CDR, and put the machine on the network? Furthermore, I just
met Our New Sound Guy who seems very qualified to do all this.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
September 27, 2004 11:13:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <LVY5d.25029$W21.21284@fe2.texas.rr.com>,
Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:56:11 GMT, Phil Nelson
> > <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>My practical advice is to work out something with the church where
> >>>you'll be "paid" for your time at a professional rate in a documented
> >>>equivalent cash contribution that you can use to reduce your income
> >>>tax.
>
> >>My understanding is these sort of arrangements violate IRS regulations.
>
> > "A donation in the name of Fred Garvey has been made to . . . "
> >
> > Common to things like "Celebrity Jeopardy" and "Celebrity Poker"
> >
> > The donation is both income and a deduction.
>
> If it's both income and a deduction, then why bother? If you do
> one hour at $100, then aren't you getting $100 of income and
> a $100 deduction? In that case, you're adding $100 to your
> taxable income and then immediately subtracting $100. So, why
> not just forget about the paperwork since it's not changing
> your taxes at all?
>
The donation can not be funded by the organization recieving the benifit

it is just a wash to the irs
George
Anonymous
September 27, 2004 11:26:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

TS <tspill@talk21.com> wrote:

> Is there a piece of s/w that does this 1 minute track split automatically
> (with no gaps)? Where can I get it?


Amadeus II does this. 1) open wav or aiff or ... 2) selection/generate
marks, set first mark and intervall between marks 3) selection/split
according to marks. Then drag all fragments into playlist in iTunes (or
Toast or Jam...) set pauses to 0 which at least Jam and iTunes can do,
and click "burn".

Lars

--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 12:00:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1096282326k@trad...
>
>
> There's no getting around it - taking a raw recording and turning it
> into something consumer-friendly takes time. That's what recording
> engineers get paid for. The problem with a church gig is that it's
> rarely a paying gig, so there's a temptation to try to find timesaving
> shortcuts.

I would say his "service" has value and that could be his contribution (as
in "tithes") versus giving money.
September 28, 2004 12:15:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

it has to be a service that
> the church would pay for if you didn't offer to do it without cash
> payment. And you probably would get questioned if you charged
> $150/hour for four hours a week and wrote it off as a donation, but
> you could get something out of it. In some instances, you may have to
> actually get paid and then donate that payment to the church. That's
> documentation in itself. Again, the fee has to be reasonable.

of course you can write off the donation but you need to also list the
"actually get paid" as income
it becomes a wash
George
>
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 12:58:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ben Bradley wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:16:38 GMT, Phil Nelson
> <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Paul Stamler wrote:
>>
>>>"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
....

>>>The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
>>>enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
>>
>>I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
>>that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.
>
> Does he not follow the Order Of Service? Is it an option to get a
> new minister?
> I forget what model CDR recorder we have, but the main complaint I
> have is that the track-increment button is on the remote, and there's
> no such button on the recorder's front panel.
>

No, he doesn't always follow the order of service. Guest speakers often
don't even have one. I may have a minority view in this, but I think the
whole point of having technology is that he doesn't have to. My view is
that if the technology won't work with the Pastor, then we need to get
new technology, not a new Pastor.

>>What I do is digitally record the entire service and cut everything
>>but the sermon in editing. That way I don't miss anything, and I can
>>find the right place for track breaks. Sometimes time-consuming, but
>>at least possible. Also, I always find something that needs adjusting,
>>like the Pastor clapping in front of his lapel mic.
>
>
> There's a program that makes this incredibly fast, it's at
> cdwave.com. Also, if you use the "save .cue file" feature and then
> load the .cue file in a CD burner program that recognizes it, you'll
> be amazed that you can split and hour's worth of 20 tracks in as
> little as ten minutes or less. If you're going record on hard disk or
> rip the CDR to a PC anyway, it's well worth using it.

Thanks for the pointer. I have been using CDwave for recording, but I
started with Audacity so that's what I am used to for editing. I will
look at the CDwave site more carefully.

>>>Not insuperable challenges, but things to think about. Of coure, you could
>>>record on CD-R, clean up in a PC, then duplicate.
>>
>>If I could, I would do a digital recording and a "live" CD, so anyone in
>>a hurry could get the CD the same day, and if I didn't have time to do
>>the editing, there would still be a CD available the next week. Too bad
>>we can't afford the equipment.
>
>
> I don't see equipment cost as a problem. We record our services on

As it happens, it's not necessarily a problem. I was thinking of the
impossibility of getting budget to buy a CD recorder, but the PC we
already have could do this job. I just didn't think of using it that
way.

> CDR, when there's been a special musical service, I've ripped it on my
> computer at home, adjusted levels/cut silence as appropriate, split
> tracks with cdwave and made copies for participants and to replace the
> original CDR. I've thought about recording to an older PC (a 200MHz
> machine is fine for recording a stereo CD data rate), but the problems
> are:
> 1. the idea of adding a PC and monitor to the rack of equipment,
> and what it would look like (an LCD monitor would look better, but
> they cost actual money), and

For us, there is already a Power Point PC, so, no big deal.

> 2. the idea that when I'm not there (either not at the service, or
> worse, up front singing) and someone else does sound (a volunteer who
> may barely know how to get sound), do they really need to learn to run
> some DAW software as well as everything else they need to do? I'm
> moving away, so I won't be doing sound here regularly for much longer.
> OTOH, this is a UU congregation (smalish, not much money) that for
> some reason has DSL (probably for last-minute sermon research...),
> WiFi, and a separate server machine (others handle all this, I have no
> involvement), so why not have the service recorded to hard disk as
> well as CDR, and put the machine on the network? Furthermore, I just
> met Our New Sound Guy who seems very qualified to do all this.

I do this. We have a server for the office, I keep MP3s of the sermons
on it for anyone in the office to listen to. Fortunately I have a fast
DSL at home to upload the files after I edit them.

--
Phil Nelson
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 1:25:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Phil Nelson wrote:
> Ben Bradley wrote:
>
>> Does he not follow the Order Of Service? Is it an option to get a
>> new minister?
>> I forget what model CDR recorder we have, but the main complaint I
>> have is that the track-increment button is on the remote, and there's
>> no such button on the recorder's front panel.
>>
>
> No, he doesn't always follow the order of service. Guest speakers often

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention when I wrote that. I meant he doesn't
follow the sermon outline. The order of service is another issue. Mostly
that is followed. But, I still wind up with 45 minutes of sermon, which
is a lot to FF through on a CD player. So break it into tracks (usually
about 7). But I want the tracks to have some logical relation to the
sermon outline, or the content if the outline isn't followed exactly,
and getting that right just can't be done live, as far as I can tell.

I suppose my method may be unusual, I developed it more or less from
scratch, with no idea what anyone else is doing, using all open-source
software (except for Windows XP, because they wouldn't go for Linux).

--
Phil Nelson
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 5:50:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have been using CD Wave Editor for a while and find it to be great. Last
night, after reading this topic, I discovered that it could do the 1 minute
splits. It is extremely easy to use and is $15 to register.

www.cdwave.com

John


"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cj9gp5$jsb$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1bc213c39646aa9798a504@news.paradise.net.nz...
> > In article <cj6mvr$89f$1@hercules.btinternet.com> in rec.audio.pro on
> > Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:24:44 +0000 (UTC), TS <tspill@talk21.com> says...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I need to find a new way to record our church services. Currently we
> use
> > > tapes which are poor quality as the decks are old and worn and also,
> they
> > > can only be duplicated is real time or the tapes can be run at double
> speed
> > > to reduce this time.
> > >
> > > We now need better quality and more omportantly we need to speed the
> > > process.
> > >
> > > I was thinking of getting a CD Recorder such as the Denon CDR-1500 or
> the
> > > Pioneer PDR-609 to take an anolog feed from the mixing console (Allen
> and
> > > Heath GL2000) and record to CDR. Then to get a CD Duplicator to copy
> this
> > > onty several CDs at a time.
> > >
> > > Am I on the right track here? I am reluctant to go to the complexity
of
> > > using a PC for recording.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
> >
> > The biggest issue with CDs is, ho hum, you can't just stop a CD and come
> > back to it later like you can with a tape.
> >
> > The next best solution is to split the whole recording into 1 minute
> > tracks, which can be done with some readily available software.
> >
> > Other than that, it's a good plan, being used by lots of churches now.
>
> Is there a piece of s/w that does this 1 minute track split automatically
> (with no gaps)? Where can I get it?
>
> Cheers
>
>
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 5:56:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I use the RNC for my recording because some preachers can get "strong" in
words. It also helps intelligibility by leveling the volume. I would
definitely use it.

John


"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cj9gej$71m$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> "Leoaw3" <leoaw3@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> news:20040926165455.07384.00001714@mb-m29.aol.com...
> > Will you be wanting the duplicate CDs immediately after the service? If
> so,
> > then recording directly to CD makes more sense. If not, you might
> consider a
> > hard disk recorder or integrated unit like the Alesis Masterlink which
can
> > record in 24 bit, and copy down onto CD. Having the extra bit depth
would
> help
> > if the recording level was set too low, or if you needed more headroom.
> >
> > Remember, recording digitally does not have the same forgiving qualities
> as
> > tape. If your levels go too high - you distort. period.
> >
> > -lee-
>
> Thanks,
> The requirement is for them to be available asap on the Sunday which is
why
> I am keen on recording dirently to CD.
> I had forgottem about the clipping of high levels. We already use a
> compressor for the tapes, maybe I need another one after this to limit the
> signal further.
>
> Cheers
> TS
>
>
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 8:00:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsp5646@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Vw36d.42243$ci3.1818604@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>I use the RNC for my recording because some preachers can get "strong" in
> words. It also helps intelligibility by leveling the volume. I would
> definitely use it.
>

We once had a discussion here over what ratios worked better with different
types of preachers. I recommend limiting for fire and brimstone and
expansion for sermons on hermeneutics which can tend to be kind of "dry" and
undynamic.
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 5:33:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:58:51 GMT, Phil Nelson
<pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
> Ben Bradley wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:16:38 GMT, Phil Nelson
>> <pCUT_THiS_TEXTdn@soAND_THiS_TEXTnic.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Paul Stamler wrote:
>>>
>>>>"TS" <tspill@talk21.com> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>>The main weakness is track start times. A church service probably won't have
>>>>enough real silence to trigger automatic start IDs, and even if it does,
>>>
>>>I don't know how anyone can get this right, especially with a Pastor
>>>that doesn't follow the outline reliably, or doesn't even have one.
>>
>> Does he not follow the Order Of Service? Is it an option to get a
>> new minister?
>> I forget what model CDR recorder we have, but the main complaint I
>> have is that the track-increment button is on the remote, and there's
>> no such button on the recorder's front panel.
>>
>
> No, he doesn't always follow the order of service. Guest speakers often
> don't even have one. I may have a minority view in this, but I think the
> whole point of having technology is that he doesn't have to. My view is
> that if the technology won't work with the Pastor, then we need to get
> new technology, not a new Pastor.
>

That's common in churches of an Evangelical stripe, particularly when
there's only a single service. One of my many sisters used to do four
services as worship leader. The early services had to go like
clockwork, lest there be an untenable situation in the parking lot.

The late service didn't need to be and occasionally was VERY long.
!