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Which engine is better - Torque or 3D Game Studio

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Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:07:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

A team of eight people have assembled to create the most successful game in
2006 (Ego's rule) and are not looking to reinvent the wheel and therefore
have chosen to use an existing engine. Need to understand what is the best
engine that has the following features:

* Multiplayer lobby - Should include chat functionality
* Should support minimal resolution of 800x600 and ideally 1024x768
* Users should be able to save their game play for the future
* Should support LiveUpdate functionality whenever the user plays on the
Internet
* Need support for various weather elements: clouds, lightning, thunder,
rain, wind, fog
* Engine should be highly secure and not allow for exploits
* Lighting effects should support flickering
* Water effects should include bubbles, streams, waves and splashes
* Need strong support for shadows and reflections
* Transparency is important for fire, glass, fog and smoke
* Should support Windows, Linux and Mac
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:07:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

"Cindi Jenkins" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote in message
news:_8uUd.14786$hU7.3963@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>A team of eight people have assembled to create the most successful game in
> 2006 (Ego's rule) and are not looking to reinvent the wheel and therefore
> have chosen to use an existing engine. Need to understand what is the best
> engine that has the following features:
>
> * Multiplayer lobby - Should include chat functionality
> * Should support minimal resolution of 800x600 and ideally 1024x768
> * Users should be able to save their game play for the future
> * Should support LiveUpdate functionality whenever the user plays on the
> Internet
> * Need support for various weather elements: clouds, lightning, thunder,
> rain, wind, fog
> * Engine should be highly secure and not allow for exploits
> * Lighting effects should support flickering
> * Water effects should include bubbles, streams, waves and splashes
> * Need strong support for shadows and reflections
> * Transparency is important for fire, glass, fog and smoke
> * Should support Windows, Linux and Mac
>

If you like to support small companies putting there whole heart and life on
the line to fight for what they believe in, then the Torque engine is the
one to go with.

I know the Creator personally, he has done the world a big favor. Show him
some support if you can.

My personal oppinion is, that you ought to write your own.


It's your decision to make, dont leave it up to anybody else.

Dan
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:32:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

By the way. There are people out there trying to destroy the mans
reputation by offering copies of the torque engine wich possess malicious
code. Make sure you get the Source files from him directly.

Dan
Related resources
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:55:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Cindi Jenkins wrote:
> A team of eight people have assembled to create the most
> successful game in 2006
>
> * Should support minimal resolution of 800x600 and ideally 1024x768

Inability to figure out simple stuff like this
doesn't bode well...



--
<\___/>
/ O O \
\_____/ FTB. For email, remove my socks.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 10:02:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

"Cindi Jenkins" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote:
>A team of eight people have assembled to create the most successful game in
>2006 (Ego's rule) and are not looking to reinvent the wheel and therefore
>have chosen to use an existing engine. Need to understand what is the best
>engine that has the following features:
>
>* Multiplayer lobby - Should include chat functionality
>* Should support minimal resolution of 800x600 and ideally 1024x768
>* Users should be able to save their game play for the future
>* Should support LiveUpdate functionality whenever the user plays on the
>Internet
>* Need support for various weather elements: clouds, lightning, thunder,
>rain, wind, fog
>* Engine should be highly secure and not allow for exploits
>* Lighting effects should support flickering
>* Water effects should include bubbles, streams, waves and splashes
>* Need strong support for shadows and reflections
>* Transparency is important for fire, glass, fog and smoke
>* Should support Windows, Linux and Mac

Your inability to find out the simplest information proves your project
will fail.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 12:19:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

In article <phu521hgps7nbluo2gq8j51ih2do5vt1nm@4ax.com>,
Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:

> Your inability to find out the simplest information proves your project
> will fail.

Actually, it only strongly suggests. The proof is a bit more involved ;) 

--
Please take off your shoes before arriving at my in-box.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends
unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 3:03:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

fungus wrote:
> Cindi Jenkins wrote:
>
>> A team of eight people have assembled to create the most
>> successful game in 2006
>> * Should support minimal resolution of 800x600 and ideally 1024x768
>
>
> Inability to figure out simple stuff like this
> doesn't bode well...
>

Heh. A touch insensitive, but a rather accurate answer nonetheless.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 11:44:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

:p 
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 9:08:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Miss Elaine Eos <Misc@*your-shoes*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>In article <phu521hgps7nbluo2gq8j51ih2do5vt1nm@4ax.com>,
> Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote:
>
>> Your inability to find out the simplest information proves your project
>> will fail.
>
>Actually, it only strongly suggests. The proof is a bit more involved ;) 

It's so pitifully obvious that this person is supposed to be the
programming expert on this project too.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:55:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

"Cindi Jenkins" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote in message
news:_8uUd.14786$hU7.3963@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> Need to understand what is the best
> engine that has the following features:

Are you looking for a gasoline or diesel engine? How much power do you need?
How many cylinders?
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 9:17:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

In article <l3uVd.27016$hd6.381@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"Scott Hedrick" <dinehnm@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Cindi Jenkins" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote in message
> news:_8uUd.14786$hU7.3963@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> > Need to understand what is the best
> > engine that has the following features:
>
> Are you looking for a gasoline or diesel engine? How much power do you need?
> How many cylinders?

Consider bio-diesel as an environmentally friendly alternative to
traditional fossil fuels...

--
Please take off your shoes before arriving at my in-box.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends
unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:24:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Our team was leaning towards Torque but wanted to make sure it was the
right decision.

Right now, we have a ton of developers, artists and musicians. We only
need to find a great story writer that hopefully lives in the
Springfield Mass area.
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:40:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

The only reason I asked is due to a post I saw here:
http://www.truevision3d.com/phpBB2/post-54089.html

I would hate to go down a path only to have to fix bugs myself. I
either want to pay money and get full support or pay nothing and
contribute to an open source project...
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 8:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

"Cindi" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote in message
news:1110038369.635896.92190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Was hoping that I
> might have gotten a more useful response like "have you heard about
> engine X" instead of an idiot such as yourself posting useless
> comments.

So you posted your *own* useless comments instead, and exposed your *own*
brand of idiocy, eh?
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 8:35:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

"Cindi" <cindi@chiltown.com> wrote in message
news:1110039874.929856.68420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Our team was leaning towards Torque but wanted to make sure it was the
> right decision.

Both gasoline and diesel engines can be designed with lots of torque.
March 5, 2005 11:06:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Cindi wrote:

> Has absolutely nothing to do with figuring it out. Was hoping that I
> might have gotten a more useful response like "have you heard about
> engine X" instead of an idiot such as yourself posting useless
> comments.

You are lucky you didn't ask a hard technical questions, like "how important
is graceful shutdown on a console?"

Game programmers are such eloquent posters. When we don't know an answer, we
flame.

Anyway, here's some concept art for your next project:
_____
,' ,'
,' ,'
\ \
\ /^\ \
\ \
\ \
<\___/> \ \
/ O O \ \ \
\_____/ FTB. \/'

--
Phlip
http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFir...
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:06:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> Game programmers are such eloquent posters. When we don't know an
> answer, we flame.

We Philip?

WTH:) 
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 1:06:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

DHOLLINGSWORTH2 wrote:

> By the way. There are people out there trying to destroy the
> mans reputation by offering copies of the torque engine wich
> possess malicious code. Make sure you get the Source files from
> him directly.

Him being Jeff, Mark, Tim, Rick, or are they simply the Holy
Quarnary???

-tom!

--
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:29:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

OK, it is my thought that one should be able to at least evaluate the
code for quality before making such a large scale commitment to it. He
seems against this as a thought.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 10:46:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

To get the cross platform support that you want, I suggest looking at
the Ogre engine.

http://www.ogre3d.org/

A friend of mine (Walaber) is using this in conjunction with the Newton
physics engine and seems to be very pleased with the results so far.

http://www.physicsengine.com/

It doesn't hurt that the cost of entry for these two is very low.
Given that this may be your first big project. I would seriously
consider make a game mod using an existing engine. This will give you
a change to cut your teeth working as a team, learning your media
tools, and sticking to a design and working within a set of
limitations. If your team can survivie that, you'll have a much better
shot at a whole game project and your quality will be much better than
freshman effort.
--
TAZ
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:28:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Cindi wrote:

> OK, it is my thought that one should be able to at least evaluate the
> code for quality before making such a large scale commitment to it.
>

$100 is a large scale commitment?

--
flippa@flippac.org

Performance anxiety leads to premature optimisation
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Philippa Cowderoy wrote:

> > OK, it is my thought that one should be able to at least evaluate the
> > code for quality before making such a large scale commitment to it.
> >
>
> $100 is a large scale commitment?

And the availability of a free demo precludes what evaluation?

-tom!

--
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:28:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

> > > OK, it is my thought that one should be able to at least evaluate the
> > > code for quality before making such a large scale commitment to it.
> > >
> >
> > $100 is a large scale commitment?
>
> And the availability of a free demo precludes what evaluation?

....Let me add that if you want to buy an engine based upon your
own coding standards, you probably won't find one.

I've worked with several commercial game engines, and know people
who have used several more yet, and in all cases the code works
(mostly) as advertised but is not the shining paragon of beauty.
Indeed, in many cases you're left thinking, "why did they do it
that way?" but it really doesn't matter because you're not buying
an engine to edit the engine, you're buying it to build a game
upon.

-tom!

--
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 8:48:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Tom Plunket wrote:

> ...Let me add that if you want to buy an engine based upon your
> own coding standards, you probably won't find one.
>

Seconded. When it comes down to it, we're all picky - to be told somebody
genuinely likes your code when taken in large chunks is a real compliment.

> I've worked with several commercial game engines, and know people
> who have used several more yet, and in all cases the code works
> (mostly) as advertised but is not the shining paragon of beauty.
> Indeed, in many cases you're left thinking, "why did they do it
> that way?" but it really doesn't matter because you're not buying
> an engine to edit the engine, you're buying it to build a game
> upon.
>

Subject to the engine being sufficiently capable, in fairness. Quake 1,
for example, had a lot of stuff hardcoded such that a lot of licensees
would've had to rewrite portions of the networking code (I've done it
myself since the GPL release) to handle any data above what Quake needs
for its own gameplay. You actually needed to modify the engine to add a
use button effectively, despite half the hooks being left in!

--
flippa@flippac.org

There is no magic bullet. There are, however, plenty of bullets that
magically home in on feet when not used in exactly the right circumstances.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 7:34:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Money is not the issue. You have to have your entire development team
sign licensing agreements which is overkill. They do not even publish
the details on their site so you don't really know until purchase time.
For us, it wouldn't be $100, it would be several thousand.
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 8:09:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Cindi Jenkins wrote:

> A team of eight people have assembled to create the most successful game in
> 2006 (Ego's rule) and are not looking to reinvent the wheel and therefore
> have chosen to use an existing engine. Need to understand what is the best
> engine that has the following features:

GDC is this week. All the people you need to talk to are
in San Francisco, available to you.

John Nagle
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:49:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Torque is actually quite an old engine, so it is showing its age. On
the other hand, it is mature and the current Mac range even come
complete with a Torque-based game as one of the bundled titles ("Marble
Blast Gold"), so it's certainly capable.

I would advise downloading the demos first to see if you like how they
work. Torque does have a C++ interface, but its primarily aimed at
those who intend to use its own scripting language. You don't get to
see the source and, frankly, there's not much point in being able to do
so. It works. It ain't going to get noticeably faster unless you make
radical changes to the core engine, in which case, you may as well
write your own.

I did play with OGRE too, but OGRE is much less complete. It is faster,
but it lacks maturity and the support for Mac OS X seems to be an
afterthought. (Only the Windows release comes all nicely packaged. The
OS X release won't even build its own demos with XCode 1.5. Not
impressed.)

The problem is that you're really looking for a _game_ engine, rather
than just a graphics engine and OGRE is primarily a graphics engine.
It'll do 3D, but not a whole hell of a lot else. Torque is older, but
may be better suited to your needs.

As for 3D Game Studio: It's one of those point-and-click "Make A Game"
programs you often see in bargain bins. I'm sure it's capable of some
nice stuff within its own limitations, but it's not really a
pro-quality game engine.

There are surprisingly few complete middleware game engines available
at a cheap price point, so your options are limited, I'm afraid. And
without knowing what kind of game you really want, it's hard to be
specific about which engine is "better".

--
Sean Timarco Baggaley



On 2005-03-07 15:46:34 +0000, "zircher" <tzircher@yahoo.com> said:

> To get the cross platform support that you want, I suggest looking at
> the Ogre engine.
>
> http://www.ogre3d.org/
>
> A friend of mine (Walaber) is using this in conjunction with the Newton
> physics engine and seems to be very pleased with the results so far.
>
> http://www.physicsengine.com/
>
> It doesn't hurt that the cost of entry for these two is very low.
> Given that this may be your first big project. I would seriously
> consider make a game mod using an existing engine. This will give you
> a change to cut your teeth working as a team, learning your media
> tools, and sticking to a design and working within a set of
> limitations. If your team can survivie that, you'll have a much better
> shot at a whole game project and your quality will be much better than
> freshman effort.
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 6:04:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.design,comp.games.development.industry,comp.games.development.programming.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,comp.graphics.api.opengl (More info?)

Sean Baggaley wrote:

> There are surprisingly few complete middleware game engines available
> at a cheap price point, so your options are limited, I'm afraid. And
> without knowing what kind of game you really want, it's hard to be
> specific about which engine is "better".

$50 US will net you a copy of Unreal Tournament 2kX and an
editor. Can't get a much more complete game engine than that, at
least if you're interested in making FPSes. ;) 

-tom!

--
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.
!