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* Buying a new soundcard... multiple outs or not?

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Anonymous
September 29, 2004 7:45:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Is there much of a need for a multiple-outs soundcard for a home studio
nowadays?

I remember when I first bought my Echo Gina, I loved the fact that I could
route 8 outs into 8 different channels of my Mackie outboard mixer. I could
EQ each out as I wanted. But this was back when Cakewalk (my tool of choice)
didn't have virtual main outs I could assign any track I wanted to. The only
way to have more mains, back then, was to have more devices... or a device -
like the Gina - that was 4 devices in one. This way, I could apply specific
effects on each of the 4 groups. 5 groups if you count the SoundBlaster
(soundfont) main.

Things have since evolved. Cakewalk is now become Sonar, and Sonar will
group your tracks any way you want. You can have 20 groups of 5, or 5 groups
of 20... and you can apply effects to each group, or each track
individually. In other words, you can have as many virtual mains as you
want.

Has this made multiple-outs for home recording obsolete? Everything is being
done within the computer anyway. So much so that I've forgotten why I wanted
multiple outs to begin with.

Am I about to make a big mistake by looking at 2-in, 2-out cards from now on
to keep things simple, and focus only on the sound quality and the
converters?

Am I being too hasty? What am I not taking into consideration that will have
me pulling my hair later on if I go this route?
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 7:53:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in news:RdE6d.3879$m5.22797
@wagner.videotron.net:

> Is there much of a need for a multiple-outs soundcard for a home studio
> nowadays?
Surround?
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 10:28:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <RdE6d.3879$m5.22797@wagner.videotron.net> nospam@please.com writes:

> Is there much of a need for a multiple-outs soundcard for a home studio
> nowadays?

Not if you're happy mixing in your computer, both from the standpoint
of sound quality (usually not an issue) and ergonomics (often a big
issue).

> Has this made multiple-outs for home recording obsolete? Everything is being
> done within the computer anyway.

No, not everything, and many of the big name engineers and producers
still prefer to take multiple outputs from their ProTools systems and
mix on a real console. They like the sound (though generally they
don't argue that it sounds any better than mixing in the box any
longer) but more important, they like the feel of being there. Perhaps
the advanced control surfaces are doing a good job of replacing the
feel of a console, but not everywhere.

Do what you like. If you're happy mixing in your computer, you can get
a better 2-channel card than an 8-channel card for the same amount of
money. That might be worth while.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
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Anonymous
September 30, 2004 5:15:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1096490155k@trad...
>
> Do what you like. If you're happy mixing in your computer, you can get
> a better 2-channel card than an 8-channel card for the same amount of
> money. That might be worth while.

Like a few other people here (based on the posts I see), I am currently
using an Echo Gina20, which is kinda bulky and has 8 outs. But I'm only
using two of them. I realized after using all 8 of them for a while that
sometimes I'd hit the fader on the mixer by accident and not realize it
until after I've mixed everything in my sequencer... then have to remix
again with all the faders at 0db. An annoyance I solved by just using a
single L and single R channel.

Does Echo have a superior model (perhaps 24 bits rather than 20, with better
converters) that doesn't have multiple outs? Wouldn't I be better off with
that?

I also find my Echo Gina20 is very hot. Anyone else having heat problems
with their Echo cards?
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 7:29:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jon J. Yeager wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1096490155k@trad...
>
>>Do what you like. If you're happy mixing in your computer, you can get
>>a better 2-channel card than an 8-channel card for the same amount of
>>money. That might be worth while.
>
>
> Like a few other people here (based on the posts I see), I am currently
> using an Echo Gina20, which is kinda bulky and has 8 outs. But I'm only
> using two of them. I realized after using all 8 of them for a while that
> sometimes I'd hit the fader on the mixer by accident and not realize it
> until after I've mixed everything in my sequencer... then have to remix
> again with all the faders at 0db. An annoyance I solved by just using a
> single L and single R channel.
>
> Does Echo have a superior model (perhaps 24 bits rather than 20, with better
> converters) that doesn't have multiple outs? Wouldn't I be better off with
> that?
>
> I also find my Echo Gina20 is very hot. Anyone else having heat problems
> with their Echo cards?
>
>
Sounds like you're talking about the Echo MIA, or newer version MIAMIDI.

CD
Anonymous
October 1, 2004 2:14:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Y6X6d.9567$M96.219878@wagner.videotron.net> nospam@please.com writes:

> Like a few other people here (based on the posts I see), I am currently
> using an Echo Gina20, which is kinda bulky and has 8 outs. But I'm only
> using two of them. I realized after using all 8 of them for a while that
> sometimes I'd hit the fader on the mixer by accident and not realize it
> until after I've mixed everything in my sequencer... then have to remix
> again with all the faders at 0db.

Well, apparently you were just using your mixer as a funnel, so
there's no point to it. I use a mixer as a mixer, and if I bump a
fader and don't hear that something changed, I need to get my ears
examined.

It sounds like you're really mixing in your computer so you don't need
a multi-channel card.

> Does Echo have a superior model (perhaps 24 bits rather than 20, with better
> converters) that doesn't have multiple outs? Wouldn't I be better off with
> that?

The new Mia (I think the current version has a MIDI port) is a couple
of generations newer than your Gina and I'm sure that in theory sounds
better. Whether you'll notice the difference or not depends on a lot
of things.

If you want to take a significant step up, you might look at the Lynx
cards. I don't change my hardware as often as I change my undewear,
so I don't keep up to the minute, but Lynx had the best things going a
year or so ago.

> I also find my Echo Gina20 is very hot. Anyone else having heat problems
> with their Echo cards?

Some stuff just gets hot. I had a Layla in for a review that I
mounted backwards in the rack so I'd have easy access to the
connectors, and it was great for keeping my coffee warm. But it never
failed.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 1, 2004 3:58:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
news:RdE6d.3879$m5.22797@wagner.videotron.net...
> Is there much of a need for a multiple-outs soundcard for a home studio
> nowadays?
>
> I remember when I first bought my Echo Gina, I loved the fact that I could
> route 8 outs into 8 different channels of my Mackie outboard mixer. I
could
> EQ each out as I wanted. But this was back when Cakewalk (my tool of
choice)
> didn't have virtual main outs I could assign any track I wanted to. The
only
> way to have more mains, back then, was to have more devices... or a
device -
> like the Gina - that was 4 devices in one. This way, I could apply
specific
> effects on each of the 4 groups. 5 groups if you count the SoundBlaster
> (soundfont) main.
>
> Things have since evolved. Cakewalk is now become Sonar, and Sonar will
> group your tracks any way you want. You can have 20 groups of 5, or 5
groups
> of 20... and you can apply effects to each group, or each track
> individually. In other words, you can have as many virtual mains as you
> want.
>
> Has this made multiple-outs for home recording obsolete? Everything is
being
> done within the computer anyway. So much so that I've forgotten why I
wanted
> multiple outs to begin with.
>
> Am I about to make a big mistake by looking at 2-in, 2-out cards from now
on
> to keep things simple, and focus only on the sound quality and the
> converters?
>
> Am I being too hasty? What am I not taking into consideration that will
have
> me pulling my hair later on if I go this route?

I also bought a Gina and liked the multiple outputs and I didn't really care
about having only two inputs. I quickly found that what I really wanted was
the opposite arrangement with just a pair of outputs and a lot more inputs.
Since then I've picked up a MOTU 1296 and a Crest XR20 mixer, so I can
easily record and playback 12 channels. Now I'm getting to the point where I
really prefer doing the experimental mixing through the Crest to figure out
what I want to do with the tracks, and then decide on how much I'll mix in
the computer and how much I'll do by hand. I just find it a lot easier to
stay in a creative frame of mind when I'm not pushing a mouse around to make
things happen.

Of course nothing I record is really good enough to expose any differences
that might exist in the audio quality, so that's not a factor in my opinion.

Sean
Anonymous
October 1, 2004 1:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message news:<Y6X6d.9567$M96.219878@wagner.videotron.net>...
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1096490155k@trad...
> >
> > Do what you like. If you're happy mixing in your computer, you can get
> > a better 2-channel card than an 8-channel card for the same amount of
> > money. That might be worth while.
>

John,
I recenty sold my Gina24 card in favor of a Lynx L22. I mix everthing
in Sonar these days, so I stopped using the all the Gina outputs years
ago. FWIW, the Lynx blows away the Gina card in sound quality. I've
owned two Echo cards and they have been bullet proof, great drivers.
The Lynx is a bit more fussy, however I've been using the ASIO driver
in Sonar 3 and it works perfectly.

DaveT
Anonymous
October 2, 2004 5:11:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:45:10 -0400, "Jon J. Yeager"
<nospam@please.com> wrote:

>Is there much of a need for a multiple-outs soundcard for a home studio
>nowadays?

Certainly there is no longer an automatic need. As you say, many
people mix completely within the computer now. If you are only going
to occasionally send a track out to an external processor, a
single-bus soundcard will be OK.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
November 8, 2004 2:23:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-09-30, Jon J. Yeager <nospam@please.com> wrote:

>> Do what you like. If you're happy mixing in your computer, you can get
>> a better 2-channel card than an 8-channel card for the same amount of
>> money. That might be worth while.
>
> Like a few other people here (based on the posts I see), I am currently
> using an Echo Gina20, which is kinda bulky and has 8 outs.

Layla has 8 in/outs not counting spdif. But mine got hot enough to cook
on, and I really don't want that in my rack, so I replaced it with a
Delta 1010. I don't think I'd trade my delta for anything. I like to
record my keyboards on different tracks simultaneously, with a separate
track for vocal, so I really want all the inputs. But for outputs, I
generally just use 1&2 as a stereo mix, plus the spdif as the same
stereo mix. But this is probably also a function of the fact that I'm
out of patch cords. Man have I spent a lot on patch cords, and I'm
still not done.

> I also find my Echo Gina20 is very hot. Anyone else having heat problems
> with their Echo cards?

I knew it wasn't just mine. Delta 1010. $450. People swear by their
DIGI, RME, MOTU, etc. I picked Delta early on largely because of their
up-front linux support, not that I've done much audio under linux, and
even though my music workstation runs windows, it was the principle of
the thing.

Then again, other people have different needs. I'm happy (blissfully
happy) with a Delta 1010, Magix, FLStudio, on a Shuttle XPC with an
Athlon. I have an Event Layla20 that works fine, except for the
runs-hot detail, maybe I'll put it on Ebay and start the bidding at
$25.00.
!