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on the subject of DVD and TV sound...

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Anonymous
October 1, 2004 8:32:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

Took me a while to decide to post here as I'm not a pro by any stretch
of the imagination, but I don't know where else to go to find answer.

Here goes,

I designed a sound to be used as backdrop in underwater video, to be
released on DVD. The sound, to my hear, convey the feeling of the
footage it is to be associated with, and it sound ok on the few sound
system I tried it on.

The problem is that when I tried it on a regular TV set, it sounded like
an incredibly horrible screechy and noisy horror. I understand that
regular TV speaker are not that good, but this was frankly horrible.

Questions:

Can this be fixed somehow, so it doesn't sound so noisy and screechy on
a TV?

Without removing what makes the essence of the sound?

When you mix/master for DVD's, do you take into account regular TV
speakers, or do you assume everybody with a DVD also has proper sound
system and so you don't bother with it?


An exctract is here if you care to listen (1.5 MB ogg):
http://www.odysea.ca/Atmosphedisiac.ogg

Thank you for any advice you can give me, and also for the great
knowledge that is shared in this group.

--
Odysea production vidéo
plongez avec nous!
www.odysea.ca

More about : subject dvd sound

Anonymous
October 3, 2004 12:17:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>From: "deco_time" mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com
>Date: 10/1/04 4:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2s5t76F1hprdhU1@uni-berlin.de>
>
>Hi,
>
>Took me a while to decide to post here as I'm not a pro by any stretch
>of the imagination, but I don't know where else to go to find answer.
>
>Here goes,
>
>I designed a sound to be used as backdrop in underwater video, to be
>released on DVD. The sound, to my hear, convey the feeling of the
>footage it is to be associated with, and it sound ok on the few sound
>system I tried it on.
>
>The problem is that when I tried it on a regular TV set, it sounded like
>an incredibly horrible screechy and noisy horror. I understand that
>regular TV speaker are not that good, but this was frankly horrible.
>
>Questions:
>
>Can this be fixed somehow, so it doesn't sound so noisy and screechy on
>a TV?
>
>Without removing what makes the essence of the sound?
>
>When you mix/master for DVD's, do you take into account regular TV
>speakers, or do you assume everybody with a DVD also has proper sound
>system and so you don't bother with it?
>
>
>An exctract is here if you care to listen (1.5 MB ogg):
>http://www.odysea.ca/Atmosphedisiac.ogg
>
>Thank you for any advice you can give me, and also for the great
>knowledge that is shared in this group.

It seams that you have little knowledge about the tracking, editing, mixing and
mastering of the recording process. Its really hard to describe the whole thing
here but I'll give you a hint. If you want a true professional sounding
product, start with well written material, this includes all spoken/singing
lines, background music and special effects (this is even more important with
sound that is backing up a video/film presentation).
Next use professional musicians, singers and speakers with a true pro behind
the controls of the recording gear. Then you put them into the correct
environment for what parts your recording (don't try and record a loud acoustic
drum set in a closet), use the right microphone for what your recording in the
correct placement. You have to listen in a well designed room, last but far
from least, good pro speaker monitors and use good pro recording gear.
All that go's for the tracking part! Some of these things will cary over into
the other process of production, you will want the same well designed rooms for
any overdubbing and that same control room for mixdown and mastering and of
coarse good gear all around. It is a good idea to check all your mixes on as
many different systems you can get your hands on, car CD player, boom box just
about anything you can think of.
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 12:17:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In news:Raymond <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> typed:
> It seams that you have little knowledge about the tracking, editing,
> mixing and mastering of the recording process. Its really hard to
> describe the whole thing here but I'll give you a hint. If you want a
> true professional sounding product, start with well written material,
> this includes all spoken/singing lines, background music and special
> effects (this is even more important with sound that is backing up a
> video/film presentation).
> Next use professional musicians, singers and speakers with a true pro
> behind the controls of the recording gear. Then you put them into the
> correct environment for what parts your recording (don't try and
> record a loud acoustic drum set in a closet), use the right
> microphone for what your recording in the correct placement. You have
> to listen in a well designed room, last but far from least, good pro
> speaker monitors and use good pro recording gear.
> All that go's for the tracking part! Some of these things will cary
> over into the other process of production, you will want the same
> well designed rooms for any overdubbing and that same control room
> for mixdown and mastering and of coarse good gear all around. It is a
> good idea to check all your mixes on as many different systems you
> can get your hands on, car CD player, boom box just about anything
> you can think of.

What we do is release specialty video about shipwrecks of the
St-laurence rivers. We expect to release about 1000 copies to local dive
shop and dive club; As you can see, we have no money for professional,
one day in a professional studio and we're bankrupt.
Now, I don't want to use other people material as I consider that to be
stealing, so we have to do everything on our own, with softwares and
equipements that we can afford; but I am willing to go the distance to
make it sound as good as humanly possible with what we have.
Thank you for answering.

--
Odysea production vidéo
plongez avec nous!
www.odysea.ca
Related resources
October 3, 2004 12:39:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2s5t76F1hprdhU1@uni-berlin.de...
> I designed a sound to be used as backdrop in underwater video, to be
> released on DVD. The sound, to my hear, convey the feeling of the
> footage it is to be associated with, and it sound ok on the few sound
> system I tried it on.

What kind of sound? How did you record it? Are you sure you didn't
overmodulate?

> An exctract is here if you care to listen (1.5 MB ogg):
> http://www.odysea.ca/Atmosphedisiac.ogg

I could not access this file.

--The REAL Nick Delonas
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 12:39:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In news:Nick <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com> typed:
> "deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2s5t76F1hprdhU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I designed a sound to be used as backdrop in underwater video, to be
>> released on DVD. The sound, to my hear, convey the feeling of the
>> footage it is to be associated with, and it sound ok on the few sound
>> system I tried it on.
>
> What kind of sound? How did you record it? Are you sure you didn't
> overmodulate?
We might have a language barrier here (I'm french speaking), I don't
know what "overmodulate" means. If you mean the level, it was kept well
below 0dB. The sound came from software synthesizer, kept digital all
the time, and addition from CS2X outboard synth recorded dry trough an
audiophile 2496 and also well below 0dB (peaked around -6dB). No effect
added to the sound appart from synth (I have all the Kjaerhus effect and
some Voxengo's, haven't learned how to use yet).

>> An exctract is here if you care to listen (1.5 MB ogg):
>> http://www.odysea.ca/Atmosphedisiac.ogg
>
> I could not access this file.

There was lot's of traffic to the host since I posted this, seems to
work ok now.



--
Odysea production vidéo
plongez avec nous!
www.odysea.ca
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 2:47:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hmmm. I guess you haven't heard of "Clerks", "El Mariachi", "Brothers
McMullen", "Blair Witch Project", "Slacker", "An American Movie"... ?

Even Hollywood knows that it needs those crazy independent film-makers
to provide a jolt of creativity and energy every once in a while and
keep those big "professional" productions from being even more stale
than they already are.

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
> >
> I don't want to discourage you or sound like an elitist snob, but I
> really have to ask: does the world really need yet another low-budget
> production created by people who don't know how to do it? What possible
> benefit can there be to such an endeavour? Amateur productions created
> by amateurs with amateur tools usually wind up looking very... well, you
> get the idea. No one wants to pay money for a product that looks like
> someone's home movie.
>
> If the subject matter is good enough to justify being immortalized on
> DVD, isn't it worth the effort of seeking funding and using professional
> crew people? You could participate as a producer, watching what the
> audio engineer does, and eventually learn enough to do it yourself.
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 12:48:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

deco_time wrote:

> >> An exctract is here if you care to listen (1.5 MB ogg):
> >> http://www.odysea.ca/Atmosphedisiac.ogg
> >
> > I could not access this file.
>
> There was lot's of traffic to the host since I posted this, seems to
> work ok now.


What is an "ogg" file? It sounds like an odd name.
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 2:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4161EF75.5283688@comcast.net> dcooper28800@comcast.net writes:

> What is an "ogg" file? It sounds like an odd name.

One of those multimedia data compression techniques.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 4:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Very good point. I have a deep, abiding respect for people who master
their tools. If every movie was like "clerks", I'd go nuts for a big
budget musical filmed on a soundstage with fake backdrops and a million
watts of overhead lighting.

But I do believe that sometimes a strange but intriguing mind might not
have the skills required to manage a large scale production with
professional crew, but might still have something worthwhile to say.
Linklater's early films -- especially "Slacker"--are gems. Pretty rough
at times, but the images and audio are good enough to make it worthwhile.

I often think of Truffaut as a happy medium. Technically skilled and
original, but with a lot of heart as well.

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
>
> I guess so. I just wish more of the creative types bothered to learn
> enough about the technical side to make it more transparent in the end.
> I hate seeing what might otherwise be a perfectly good story get masked
> by the distraction of distorted or unintelligible audio, flakey camera
> moves and/or lo-buj gee-whiz fx.
>
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 5:36:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In news:Lorin David Schultz <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> typed:
>
> I guess so. I just wish more of the creative types bothered to learn
> enough about the technical side to make it more transparent in the
> end.

Where have you read in my post that I refused to learn about the
technical side? Wasn't my posting here exactly the opposite, that I want
in fact learn as much as I possibly can?

So far, apart from the classical "hire a professional", I haven't read
anything that would help me learn anything, not even a webpage or a book
suggestion.

I understand that people don't owe me anything, and certainly not help,
and by posting a request for help I'm totally dependant on people good
will, but I don't see much difference in being said about me "won't
bother to learn" and plainly being called stupid.
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 5:40:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In news:D on Cooper <dcooper28800@comcast.net> typed:
>
>
> What is an "ogg" file? It sounds like an odd name.

Ogg Vorbis, an audio compression scheme similar to mp3, but that a lot
of peoples, including me, feel it's of better quality.
Anonymous
October 11, 2004 11:49:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"deco_time" <mako_city@BITMEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Where have you read in my post that I refused to learn about the
> technical side? Wasn't my posting here exactly the opposite, that I
want
> in fact learn as much as I possibly can?



I *didn't* say you're not willing to learn. Any mention of "learning"
at all came in a subsequent post responding to a different comment.

That said, learning the technical side of production is not something
that can be done simply by posting to a newsgroup and reading some web
sites. It involves first doing some "book learning" (operating levels,
a few basic formulas, signal flow, human perception of sound, and some
really basic physics related to how sound behaves) followed by a TON of
trial and error. I'd suggest you're looking at a period of months
before you'd be at the point where you have ANY hope of turning out
something that doesn't have glaring, obvious distractions.

By all means, start down that road and begin the process. I'm sure
you'll find people here are more than willing to answer specific
questions (as opposed to broad, general questions that are much to
involved to answer in a newsgroup post). I can also suggest a few
useful tools to get you started:

- Buy a Mackie mixer and read the manual cover to cover. You can also
download their manuals, but it will be much more useful if you have the
device in front of you to experiment as you read. Make sure you get a
model with at least one sweepable EQ band so you can:

- Go to www.rawtracks.com and download some individual instrument
tracks. Crank the gain on the EQ all the way up, then sweep the
frequency control around to see how it affects the sound. Then try the
same thing with the EQ gain turned all the way down. Try it on a
variety of sources.

- Find a copy of this book and ask questions until you really understand
its contents:
"The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett, Focal Press, ISBN 0
240 51003 8

- Same for the "Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook."

Eventually you'll understand enough about what you're doing to have a
fighting chance at producing a decent soundtrack. In the meantime,
you're batting at invisible flies. That's why I suggested that, FOR
THIS PROJECT, you are likely better off hiring someone who already knows
what (s)he's doing, and WATCHING her/him in an attempt to LEARN
something about what (s)he's doing.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
October 11, 2004 11:54:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in message
news:atBad.11986$Ia5.10087@edtnps89...
>
> - Go to www.rawtracks.com and download some individual instrument
> tracks.

Is this a good link? I got Page Cannot Be Displayed.

Glenn D.
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 1:08:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hpspam.com> wrote:
>
>> - Go to www.rawtracks.com and download some
>> individual instrument tracks.
>
> Is this a good link? I got Page Cannot Be Displayed.


I guess not. I was working from memory. The guy who hosts the site
posts here, so maybe he'll chime in.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 7:59:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <4161EF75.5283688@comcast.net> dcooper28800@comcast.net writes:
>
> > What is an "ogg" file? It sounds like an odd name.
>
> One of those multimedia data compression techniques.


Is there a player for it?
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 7:59:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Don Cooper wrote:
>
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>
>>In article <4161EF75.5283688@comcast.net> dcooper28800@comcast.net writes:
>>
>>
>>> What is an "ogg" file? It sounds like an odd name.
>>
>> One of those multimedia data compression techniques.
>
>
> Is there a player for it?


Lots of software players can handle it.

The higher end (in terms of RAM) iRiver portable players support it.


Probably others.
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 9:07:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt wrote:

> > Is there a player for it?
>
> Lots of software players can handle it.
>
> The higher end (in terms of RAM) iRiver portable players support it.
>
> Probably others.


Thank, Kurt.

How about a web plug-in, or whatever? It didn't work with anything I
have.
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 11:36:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In news:D on Cooper <dcooper28800@comcast.net> typed:
>
> How about a web plug-in, or whatever? It didn't work with anything I
> have.

http://foobar2000.org/
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 11:36:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

deco_time wrote:
> In news:D on Cooper <dcooper28800@comcast.net> typed:
>
>> How about a web plug-in, or whatever? It didn't work with anything
>> I have.
>
>
> http://foobar2000.org/


My favorite audio player by far. Be sure to get the ABX plugin and FLAC.


Also available for WinAmp and many others, but their gadget-y look puts me off.
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 11:49:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've just ordered the Yamaha book from Amazon, maybe will help me
understand the RAP faq better :)  Due to the very bad water condition
this year, it's not possible to release the video before middle of next
summer, so I have a couple of month to make the soundtrack and learn how
to mix and master it. A kind soul even offered to have a look at it when
it's finished and see if there is any big problems with it, an offer I
most certainly will take advantage off.
I couldn't find the "The thechnique of sound studio" though, seems to be
out of print? Anyway, I can't read 2 books at once so maybe I'll find a
used one when I'm done with the first one.
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to thoses who offered suggestions and
advices.
Anonymous
October 14, 2004 2:26:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:59:00 -0400, Don Cooper
<dcooper28800@comcast.net> wrote:

>Is there a player for it?

In the Windows world, IrfanView plays everything. Top
recommendation, and it's free.

Chris Hornbeck
October 14, 2004 7:23:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 12 Oct 2004, "Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in
news:WIXad.14407$Ia5.1299@edtnps89:

> I guess not. I was working from memory. The guy who hosts the site
> posts here, so maybe he'll chime in.

I found it. It's http://www.raw-tracks.com/ (you were missing the
dash.)
Anonymous
October 15, 2004 8:50:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Am Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:07:30 -0400 schrieb Don Cooper:

> How about a web plug-in, or whatever? It didn't work with anything I
> have.

Check out the official website for OGG - they have a long
link list with software players, that supports OGG:

http://vorbis.com

http://vorbis.com/software.psp

I´m pretty sure, everyone will find some piece of software
there that matches their needs and wants... ;-)

OGG-Plug-In for Windows Media Player:

http://tobias.everwicked.com/oggds.htm


Phil
!