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- Echo / M-Audio / Lynx comparisons?

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Anonymous
October 3, 2004 5:45:02 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3 main
home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?

I really can't decide between the three companies.

M.
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 5:45:03 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny's:
http://www.pcavtech.com/
--
Phil Wilson

"Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3
> main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>
> I really can't decide between the three companies.
>
> M.
>
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 5:45:03 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Michael C. Monroe wrote:
>
> I really can't decide between the three companies.

If your budget supports it, buy the Lynx (or an RME.)
Related resources
October 4, 2004 1:05:17 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3
> main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>
> I really can't decide between the three companies.

FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better, but
I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx Two.

I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which can
really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla B.
I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.

--Nick
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 1:05:18 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Nick wrote:
>
> I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
> not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better, but
> I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx Two.
>
> I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which can
> really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla B.
> I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.

I bought my RME Digiface primarily for the quality of its drivers & support. I have not been disappointed.
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 1:07:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I really can't decide between the three companies.
>

Yugo--->Daiwoo--->Porsche911Turbo
Michael Fuller / Fulltone Musical Products Inc. / http://www.fulltone.com
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 1:51:23 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I use a LynxONE. Have not owned Echo or M-Audio products. The LynxONE
hardware is solid, dependable, audio quality is superb. The LynxTWO has
even better specifications than my LynxONE. The LynxONE does NOT have WDM
drivers, MME or ASIO are all that is supported, and there are no plans to
develop WDM for LynxONE. The LynxTWO has just begun public beta testing of
WDM drivers, it also has MME and ASIO.

I did have an issue crop up with the LynxONE driver. Lynx Support was
reluctant to 'fix' it for me, instead citing the issue as a problem with the
application software vendor's design of initializing the soundcard drivers.
Lynx Support gave me detailed write up of the problem and cause, and a link
to a Microsoft article on windows driver initialization and the issue in
question (a change in the way the init should be handled, in Win2k and XP,
which changed since NT 4.0). Lynx Support also worked with the software
vendor to help their developers get their software corrected. This did take
some time, and in the meantime, the software did not work my Lynx, I had to
switch to the onboard sound module on the motherboard for that application.

A short time later, the same issue came up again, with another application
vendor. I sent this vendor the same information about the error, and
contacted Lynx Support to let them know of this application. Lynx Support
was again wlling to work with the developers. But this time, the
application vendor was not forthcoming with code changes.

Lynx Support responded to my frustration by giving me a new driver that
would 'forgive' the incorrect initialization calls from these applications.

So, yes, it was frustrating and I did not have the use of the Lynx card for
certain applications for a period. But I can't complain with the level of
support I received from Lynx, and although it was against their better
judgement, they changed their driver code rather than stick to principle on
'what is right'.

When my budget can support the purchase of a LynxTwo, I will buy one.

My $0.02 USD.
--
Sue Morton

"Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com> wrote in message
news:hQZ7d.28818$kq6.19015022@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> "Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3
>> main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>>
>> I really can't decide between the three companies.
>
> FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
> not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better,
> but I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx
> Two.
>
> I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which
> can really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for
> Layla B. I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.
>
> --Nick
>
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 1:57:11 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de
> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these
> 3 main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>
> I really can't decide between the three companies.

This nets out to a comparison of the LynxTWO versus the Layla 24 versus the
Delta 1010, no?

That's also the order of pricing, from high to lower.

That's also the approximate order of technical quality from high to lower.
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 7:18:13 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Have you seen the new Layla G3?
Max Arwood

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:avSdnS8Q0PXEM_3cRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
> "Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de
> > Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these
> > 3 main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
> >
> > I really can't decide between the three companies.
>
> This nets out to a comparison of the LynxTWO versus the Layla 24 versus
the
> Delta 1010, no?
>
> That's also the order of pricing, from high to lower.
>
> That's also the approximate order of technical quality from high to lower.
>
>
>
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 12:38:22 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Max Arwood" <marwoodNOSPAM@hnb.com> wrote in message
news:Vh38d.2205$q%7.985@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com

> Have you seen the new Layla G3?

Looks very interesting on paper!

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 2:05:19 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:05:17 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
wrote:

>FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
>not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better, but
>I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx Two.
>
>I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which can
>really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla B.
>I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.

What problems? Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
XP?


CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 2:05:20 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:tf42m0pa6velmcdqbblp0584sgqoipkjst@4ax.com
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:05:17 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
> wrote:

>> FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20.
>> That's not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is
>> probably better, but I certainly have been very happy with the sound
>> quality of the Lynx Two.

>> I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though,
>> which can really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx
>> A+ and for Layla B. I would rate the software driver support for
>> both companies a D.

> What problems? Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
> XP?

Agreed, these negative comments about Lynx drivers amaze me. I've used both
the LynxONE and LynxTWO drviers with a variety of hardware and software,
both reguilar audio recording software and also for measurements. While some
of this software sometimes runs into problems with other vendor's drivers,
Lynx software always performs flawlessly for me.
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 2:07:01 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
> not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better, but
> I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx Two.
>
> I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which can
> really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla B.
> I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.
>
> --Nick

I have a Lynx II that replaced an Echo Gina 24. The Lynx sounds much
better than the Gina ever did. However, I've owned two Echo cards and
they have been rock solid performers. Great drivers and support when
I asked for it. The lynx
just sounds better. FWIW, I use the Lynx ASIO drivers in Sonar 4.
Lynx doesn't have a production WDM driver yet.

DaveT
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 2:59:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <tf42m0pa6velmcdqbblp0584sgqoipkjst@4ax.com> l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk writes:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:05:17 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
> (I think) wrote:

> >I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which can
> >really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla B.
> >I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.

> What problems? Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
> XP?

I have a Lynx L22 in a computer that's running Win98SE. It worked fine
when I first installed it (first generation drivers and firmware) and
continued to work until they got a couple of steps ahead of the OS
with the drivers and I had to downgrade a version at a time (I skipped
a few versions and just got "the latest" when the muse struck me)
until it started working again, and that's where it sits. It isn't
going to work any worse and it does what I need it to do, so there's
no need to upgrade further - either drivers or OS.

I suppose that one of these days I'll replace that computer, it will
have WinXP or 2000 on it, and I'll have to play the driver game
again. But I tend to leave things alone when they work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
October 4, 2004 7:10:02 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tf42m0pa6velmcdqbblp0584sgqoipkjst@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:05:17 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
> wrote:
>
>>FWIW, I have the Lynx Two and previously owned the Echo Layla 20. That's
>>not really a fair comparison because the newer Layla is probably better,
>>but
>>I certainly have been very happy with the sound quality of the Lynx Two.
>>
>>I have had frequent problems with Windows drivers for both though, which
>>can
>>really be maddening. I would rate the hardware for Lynx A+ and for Layla
>>B.
>>I would rate the software driver support for both companies a D.
>
> What problems?

A wide variety of problems from mere quirkiness to not working at all.

> Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
> XP?

Yes. I upgrade my computer every 3 years.

It is impossible to know if such problems are the driver, the audio
software, or something else. I suspect the drivers.

--Nick
Anonymous
October 4, 2004 10:23:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <eJd8d.7173$g%5.1587049@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com writes:

> > What problems?
> A wide variety of problems from mere quirkiness to not working at all.
> > Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
> > XP?
>
> Yes. I upgrade my computer every 3 years.

Ah, that's your problem. Leave it alone if it's working. I upgrade my
computers when they break which, unfortunately, hasn't been often
enough lately.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
October 5, 2004 8:15:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What other equipment do you guys use with your Lynx soundcards in your home
recording set up?
I just bought a LynxOne and I'm wondering what else I should buy?


"Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3
main
> home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>
> I really can't decide between the three companies.
>
> M.
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 4:38:21 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The last soundcard evaluated there is dated 4 years ago.

"Phil Wilson" <pdjwilson@whatever.net> wrote in message
news:p XX7d.10405$mS1.4143@fed1read05...
> Arny's:
> http://www.pcavtech.com/
> --
> Phil Wilson
>
> "Michael C. Monroe" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:2sas50F1i053uU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Is there a Tom's Hardware-like site out there that will compare these 3
>> main home-studio soundcard lines head-to-head?
>>
>> I really can't decide between the three companies.
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 4:55:39 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
news:S2A8d.59305$247.1249146@wagner.videotron.net

> The last soundcard evaluated there is dated 4 years ago.

This would be a false claim.

3 of many Counter-examples:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/LynxTWO/index.htm

First posted 2/28/2002

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/delta-1010lt/2496.ht...

First posted 7/23/2004

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/delta-1010/2496.htm

first posted 7/22/2004
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 8:48:50 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Sorry, I clicked on the first link on top of the soundcard section (full
report) which hasn't been updated since 3/22/2000 according to the page
itself.

Not sure how I was supposed to get to these newer pages of yours, but thanks
for pointing them out. :) 

Guess I should have
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:7uGdnXEXraP5T__cRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> "Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
> news:S2A8d.59305$247.1249146@wagner.videotron.net
>
>> The last soundcard evaluated there is dated 4 years ago.
>
> This would be a false claim.
>
> 3 of many Counter-examples:
>
> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/LynxTWO/index.htm
>
> First posted 2/28/2002
>
> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/delta-1010lt/2496.ht...
>
> First posted 7/23/2004
>
> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/delta-1010/2496.htm
>
> first posted 7/22/2004
October 6, 2004 1:49:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1096916320k@trad...
>
> In article <eJd8d.7173$g%5.1587049@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
> delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com writes:
>
>> > What problems?
>> A wide variety of problems from mere quirkiness to not working at all.
>> > Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
>> > XP?
>>
>> Yes. I upgrade my computer every 3 years.
>
> Ah, that's your problem.

Yes I know. Unfortunately I have to make a living using the computer for
other things, like programming. Seems like everytime I get a Windows
upgrade or install much of anything, it breaks the music applications. I've
gotten pretty good at getting things working though there have been times
where I've had to start over with a fresh install of everything.

--Nick
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:49:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <mFE8d.24943$g%5.6054167@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com writes:

> Unfortunately I have to make a living using the computer for
> other things, like programming. Seems like everytime I get a Windows
> upgrade or install much of anything, it breaks the music applications.

Just do fifteen minutes worth of work for a programming client, take
the money for that job, and buy yourself another computer so you won't
have to mess up your music applications when you mess with the work
computer. You're worth it, and think of the time you'll save.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:49:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <znr1097014723k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
>In article <mFE8d.24943$g%5.6054167@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com writes:
>
>> Unfortunately I have to make a living using the computer for
>> other things, like programming. Seems like everytime I get a Windows
>> upgrade or install much of anything, it breaks the music applications.
>
>Just do fifteen minutes worth of work for a programming client, take
>the money for that job, and buy yourself another computer so you won't
>have to mess up your music applications when you mess with the work
>computer. You're worth it, and think of the time you'll save.

Or, just get a second disk and make your system dual-boot. Boot from one
disk when you want a programming platform, boot from the other when you
want an audio workstation.
--scott

And I do feel sorry for anyone who is forced to program on Windows, but
it probably beats working for Christian radio....

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 2:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
> news:S2A8d.59305$247.1249146@wagner.videotron.net
>
>> The last soundcard evaluated there is dated 4 years ago.
>
> This would be a false claim.

Still no reports on RME cards after all these years?
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:19:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com> wrote in message
news:mFE8d.24943$g%5.6054167@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1096916320k@trad...
> >
> > In article <eJd8d.7173$g%5.1587049@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
> > delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com writes:
> >
> >> > What problems?
> >> A wide variety of problems from mere quirkiness to not working at all.
> >> > Are you using reasonably modern hardware and Windows
> >> > XP?
> >>
> >> Yes. I upgrade my computer every 3 years.
> >
> > Ah, that's your problem.
>
> Yes I know. Unfortunately I have to make a living using the computer for
> other things, like programming. Seems like everytime I get a Windows
> upgrade or install much of anything, it breaks the music applications.
I've
> gotten pretty good at getting things working though there have been times
> where I've had to start over with a fresh install of everything.
>
> --Nick
>

Why is that a bad thing? Not commenting on your situation specifically,
Nick, but people are really adverse to fresh installs of windows and I
pretty much look at it as maintenance. It's been years since I've had the
same install on one of my own machines for more than six months. Windows in
particular degenerates as time passes.

jb
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:28:32 AM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:YJudnf-mbacD2fzcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> "Max Arwood" <marwoodNOSPAM@hnb.com> wrote in message
> news:Vh38d.2205$q%7.985@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com
>
> > Have you seen the new Layla G3?
>
> Looks very interesting on paper!
>
> http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php
I'm not thrilled with the current trend of replacing two of the rear 1/4"
ins with front mounted xlr pre's. The m-audio firewire interfaces do the
same thing. It doesn't make it impossible to plug a snake into the thing,
just sloppy and weird, especially when patchbays are involved.

Doesn't anybody have other gear that they need to plug in, or are these
things still aimed at people who are starting fresh? All I want from a 1394
audio card are eight ins and outs on 1/4" jacks and the ability to daisy
chain the things. Simple, universal, and unavailable.

jb
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 12:36:00 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What about the Roland UA-1000 or the Presonus Firepod?
eric

reddred wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:YJudnf-mbacD2fzcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>
>>"Max Arwood" <marwoodNOSPAM@hnb.com> wrote in message
>>news:Vh38d.2205$q%7.985@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com
>>
>>
>>>Have you seen the new Layla G3?
>>
>>Looks very interesting on paper!
>>
>>http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php
>
> I'm not thrilled with the current trend of replacing two of the rear 1/4"
> ins with front mounted xlr pre's. The m-audio firewire interfaces do the
> same thing. It doesn't make it impossible to plug a snake into the thing,
> just sloppy and weird, especially when patchbays are involved.
>
> Doesn't anybody have other gear that they need to plug in, or are these
> things still aimed at people who are starting fresh? All I want from a 1394
> audio card are eight ins and outs on 1/4" jacks and the ability to daisy
> chain the things. Simple, universal, and unavailable.
>
> jb
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:17:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <U7adnUxQ9Ler_v7cRVn-ug@adelphia.com> opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com writes:

> people are really adverse to fresh installs of windows and I
> pretty much look at it as maintenance. It's been years since I've had the
> same install on one of my own machines for more than six months. Windows in
> particular degenerates as time passes.

Trust, mainly. I know that it's supposed to be possible to "reinstall
Windows" without changing anything else, but I don't want to try it
unless it's the last resort. I don't want it to fail and to have to
re-install all of my software, and then re-configure it for the
familiar paths and user interface preferences. I don't even remember
everything I have installed, there have been successive updates that
I'd have to find and perform.

Another thing is that while ever copy of Windows that I have here is a
legitimate, OEM-licensed version, all the copies all "restoration"
disks that, when you install from them, bring the computer back to the
original factory configuration. I'm not sure if you can do anything
but a complete installation. I haven't played with it. One of these
days I'm going to put together a fresh computer from parts, try
running one of those restoration disks on it, and see if it says "Go
to hell, this ain't a Dell!" Maybe if it doesn't, I'll have more
confidence in "reinstalling Windows" but until then, I don't want to
mess around with working computers. And you don't always learn the
right things by fixing a broken computer.


It would be better if Windows didn't "degenerate" as time passes.
There's no reason for this to happen on its own, it's a function of
installing other software (or at least it SHOULD be, if it occurs at
all). I have three computers here, one with Win98SE, one with Win2000,
and one with WinXP Home. So far I've not encountered any problems that
have tempted me to do a re-installation.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:17:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <J_ydnU-oHtPM-P7cRVn-tw@adelphia.com> opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com writes:

> I'm not thrilled with the current trend of replacing two of the rear 1/4"
> ins with front mounted xlr pre's. The m-audio firewire interfaces do the
> same thing. It doesn't make it impossible to plug a snake into the thing,
> just sloppy and weird, especially when patchbays are involved.
>
> Doesn't anybody have other gear that they need to plug in, or are these
> things still aimed at people who are starting fresh?

You got it. Old customers aren't as valuable as new customers, and
most new customers want a place to plug in their one microphone (in
the front) and their synthesizers in the back where the wiring is out
of the way and can remain in place.

> All I want from a 1394
> audio card are eight ins and outs on 1/4" jacks and the ability to daisy
> chain the things. Simple, universal, and unavailable.

Doesn't MOTU have one or more boxes like that?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 2:41:10 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
news:1JD8d.70417$247.1337274@wagner.videotron.net
> Sorry, I clicked on the first link on top of the soundcard section
> (full report) which hasn't been updated since 3/22/2000 according to
> the page itself.
>
> Not sure how I was supposed to get to these newer pages of yours, but
> thanks for pointing them out. :) 

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:53:07 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have the Edirol/Roland UA-1000. For me, it works well and, since all the
IO that is on the front is replicated on the back, you can use a snake with
it.

The only drawback I have found is that the sample rate is a knob on the
front and can't be controlled with software. Additionally, changing the
sample rate with the knob requires a reboot of the unit (!?!?)

turing test


"Eric Deibler" <deiblers@suscom.net> wrote in message
news:RN-dnRqabdA4e_7cRVn-sA@suscom.com...
> What about the Roland UA-1000 or the Presonus Firepod?
> eric
>
> reddred wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>> news:YJudnf-mbacD2fzcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>>
>>>"Max Arwood" <marwoodNOSPAM@hnb.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Vh38d.2205$q%7.985@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>Have you seen the new Layla G3?
>>>
>>>Looks very interesting on paper!
>>>
>>>http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php
>>
>> I'm not thrilled with the current trend of replacing two of the rear 1/4"
>> ins with front mounted xlr pre's. The m-audio firewire interfaces do the
>> same thing. It doesn't make it impossible to plug a snake into the thing,
>> just sloppy and weird, especially when patchbays are involved.
>>
>> Doesn't anybody have other gear that they need to plug in, or are these
>> things still aimed at people who are starting fresh? All I want from a
>> 1394
>> audio card are eight ins and outs on 1/4" jacks and the ability to daisy
>> chain the things. Simple, universal, and unavailable.
>>
>> jb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 4:27:55 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How does it perform in SONAR?
eric

turing test wrote:
> I have the Edirol/Roland UA-1000. For me, it works well and, since all the
> IO that is on the front is replicated on the back, you can use a snake with
> it.
>
> The only drawback I have found is that the sample rate is a knob on the
> front and can't be controlled with software. Additionally, changing the
> sample rate with the knob requires a reboot of the unit (!?!?)
>
> turing test
>
>
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 5:58:10 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I use it in Sonar, Live, and other audio programs with no problems at all.
I have not tried to record all 8 inputs at once, but I have played back
through 8 different outputs with no issues.
They provide ASIO drivers so you can get the latency quite low.

turing test


"Eric Deibler" <deiblers@suscom.net> wrote in message
news:NMOdnU6mHOSdgPncRVn-rg@suscom.com...
> How does it perform in SONAR?
> eric
>
> turing test wrote:
>> I have the Edirol/Roland UA-1000. For me, it works well and, since all
>> the IO that is on the front is replicated on the back, you can use a
>> snake with it.
>>
>> The only drawback I have found is that the sample rate is a knob on the
>> front and can't be controlled with software. Additionally, changing the
>> sample rate with the knob requires a reboot of the unit (!?!?)
>>
>> turing test
>>
>>
>
October 6, 2004 6:07:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cjviqa$pte$1@panix2.panix.com...
> And I do feel sorry for anyone who is forced to program on Windows, but
> it probably beats working for Christian radio....

Up until about March of 2000, it was a fantastic day job/career. Now it's
not.

--Nick
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 6:42:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 6 Oct 2004 09:17:08 -0400, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:

>Trust, mainly. I know that it's supposed to be possible to "reinstall
>Windows" without changing anything else, but I don't want to try it
>unless it's the last resort. I don't want it to fail and to have to
>re-install all of my software, and then re-configure it for the
>familiar paths and user interface preferences. I don't even remember
>everything I have installed, there have been successive updates that
>I'd have to find and perform.

If you get problems, that isn't what you want. You want a fresh
install onto a cleanly-formatted partition.

>
>Another thing is that while ever copy of Windows that I have here is a
>legitimate, OEM-licensed version, all the copies all "restoration"
>disks that, when you install from them, bring the computer back to the
>original factory configuration. I'm not sure if you can do anything
>but a complete installation. I haven't played with it. One of these
>days I'm going to put together a fresh computer from parts, try
>running one of those restoration disks on it, and see if it says "Go
>to hell, this ain't a Dell!" Maybe if it doesn't, I'll have more
>confidence in "reinstalling Windows" but until then, I don't want to
>mess around with working computers. And you don't always learn the
>right things by fixing a broken computer.
>
>
If you have one of these, it's a disk image of a Windows setup as
installed on that particular hardware. If you're lucky, it takes you
to a point in Windows installation just before "detecting hardware"
and although any necessary drivers for that machine are included, you
can provide others. This should work on other machines. I've seen
IBM machines that restore in this way.

More likely, it's an image of a finished installation, including
installed software. This MAY work on other hardware, but you can't
really complain if it doesn't.


>It would be better if Windows didn't "degenerate" as time passes.
>There's no reason for this to happen on its own, it's a function of
>installing other software (or at least it SHOULD be, if it occurs at
>all). I have three computers here, one with Win98SE, one with Win2000,
>and one with WinXP Home. So far I've not encountered any problems that
>have tempted me to do a re-installation.

Excellent! Either you're very lucky, or your computers aren't music
production tools. If they were, you'd probably have taken much more
interest in specifying and maintaining them :-)


CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
October 6, 2004 8:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<avSdnS8Q0PXEM_3cRVn-vQ@comcast.com>...
..
> That's also the approximate order of technical quality from high to lower.

Based on what? Drivers, features, build quality.... Would you say
there is a difference in sound quality? If so, is that based on
subjective evaluation or specs?
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:05:46 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:seudncRpXonEmfncRVn-pA@comcast.com...
> "Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
> news:1JD8d.70417$247.1337274@wagner.videotron.net
> > Sorry, I clicked on the first link on top of the soundcard section
> > (full report) which hasn't been updated since 3/22/2000 according to
> > the page itself.
> >
> > Not sure how I was supposed to get to these newer pages of yours, but
> > thanks for pointing them out. :) 
>
> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm

That's a pretty old table, though. Most of the cards on it aren't
even on the market any more.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:05:47 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kevin D. Kissell" <deletethisspamtrapKevinK@paralogos.com> wrote in
message news:2sifksF1l8qq2U1@uni-berlin.de
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:seudncRpXonEmfncRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>> "Jon J. Yeager" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message
>> news:1JD8d.70417$247.1337274@wagner.videotron.net
>>> Sorry, I clicked on the first link on top of the soundcard section
>>> (full report) which hasn't been updated since 3/22/2000 according to
>>> the page itself.
>>>
>>> Not sure how I was supposed to get to these newer pages of yours,
>>> but thanks for pointing them out. :) 
>>
>> http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm
>
> That's a pretty old table, though. Most of the cards on it aren't
> even on the market any more.

That means that people can compare the card they now may have, to what they
want to upgrade to.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:15:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You wrote on 03 Oct 2004 21:07:48 GMT:

??>> I really can't decide between the three companies.
??>>
F> Yugo--->Daiwoo--->Porsche911Turbo
F> Michael Fuller / Fulltone Musical Products Inc. /
F> http://www.fulltone.com

Erm, more like BMW M3 SMG, Subaru Impreza STi, Porsche 911 Turbo.

But we wouldn't want to promote silly comparisons that are meaningless at
best at elitist at worst, right?

Ryan
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:15:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <41640bbe$0$89451$812600b3@news.nntpaccess.com>,
Ryan Mitchley <rmitchle@removethis.worldonline.co.za> wrote:
>You wrote on 03 Oct 2004 21:07:48 GMT:
>
> ??>> I really can't decide between the three companies.
> ??>>
> F> Yugo--->Daiwoo--->Porsche911Turbo
> F> Michael Fuller / Fulltone Musical Products Inc. /
> F> http://www.fulltone.com
>
>Erm, more like BMW M3 SMG, Subaru Impreza STi, Porsche 911 Turbo.
>
>But we wouldn't want to promote silly comparisons that are meaningless at
>best at elitist at worst, right?

No, I don't think you get up to the M3 and 911 range until you start
talking about external stuff like Prism or Lavry. This is more of the
Yugo vs. Toyota debate.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 12:42:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <02t7m09i55b09g84eighg4couphbjsc3fb@4ax.com> l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk writes:

> >Trust, mainly. I know that it's supposed to be possible to "reinstall
> >Windows" without changing anything else

> If you get problems, that isn't what you want. You want a fresh
> install onto a cleanly-formatted partition.

That would require re-installing all of my applications. They're not
broken so I shouldn't have to re-install them.

I suppose that if I was really diligent (how many of you are there?) I
should install ALL applications on a different partition than Windows
so I could bang on Windows all I wanted and once it's running, all the
applications will come up as they were. But that's assuming that
things that characterize the applications aren't stored on the Windows
partition - like in the Registry, or in the /system directory. There
may be a way of getting around that (can the Registry be on a
different partition than the rest of Windows)

In any case, this is more than I want to learn about the inner
workings of computers.

> > I have three computers here, one with Win98SE, one with Win2000,
> >and one with WinXP Home. So far I've not encountered any problems that
> >have tempted me to do a re-installation.
>
> Excellent! Either you're very lucky, or your computers aren't music
> production tools. If they were, you'd probably have taken much more
> interest in specifying and maintaining them :-)

One is exclusively for music - the Win98 one. But I don't load it down
with gadgets. I use one program to edit stereo files, and another
program to write CDs. I have a copy of Word on there to take notes,
and Excel to keep track of expenses during session, but it's not on
the Internet and I don't install things on it that don't need to be on
it. The other two computers are more general purpose, though I have
the same audio applications installed on them and use them
occasionally, the desktop (win2000) hardly serious because I use the
internal sound card that came with the computer.

The laptop (WinXP) has a decent Digigram sound card and I consider
that to be my "backup" audio computer, and the one I use when I have
something to test for a review. I can carry that into the studio, hook
up real audio hardware top it, and not take a chance messing up the
working studio computer. WinXP is a little better about cleanly
uninstalling things than earlier versions so I've been reasonably
successful with keeping that one fairly clean. But it does have a
bunch of stuff installed on it that I've downloaded and use
occaisonally so I try to keep a CD of downloaded stuff reasonably
current in case I have to install it somewhere else (or again on the
same computer).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 12:41:06 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ap" <ashley.powell@att.net> wrote in message
news:D e430161.0410061555.3feb1f43@posting.google.com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:<avSdnS8Q0PXEM_3cRVn-vQ@comcast.com>... .

>> That's also the approximate order of technical quality from high to
>> lower.

> Based on what?

The categories shows.

>Drivers, features, build quality....

Obviously, all the drivers worked pretty well, and none of the cards fell
apart in typical use.

>Would you say there is a difference in sound quality?

On a list that covers the range shown at

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm

???

#@ll yes, there's a difference in sound quality between the card at the top
of the list, and the one at the bottom. A huge one.

>If so, is that based on subjective evaluation or specs?

Both. At the top of the list, the cards can only be reliably differentiated
by technical performance. At the bottom of the list, if you can't hear the
differences, you don't belong in the audio business. Seriously. The game
starts shifting above the approximate upper 1/3 of the list.

Detailed listening test studies of several of the cards are provided at

http://www.pcabx.com/product/soundcard/index.htm , and linked out of the
relevant technical test reports.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 1:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:07:04 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
wrote:

>> And I do feel sorry for anyone who is forced to program on Windows, but
>> it probably beats working for Christian radio....
>
>Up until about March of 2000, it was a fantastic day job/career. Now it's
>not.

Were they pissed off because Armageddon, or whatever they call it,
didn't arrive on cue for the Millennium?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 1:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 6 Oct 2004 20:42:32 -0400, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:

>> >Trust, mainly. I know that it's supposed to be possible to "reinstall
>> >Windows" without changing anything else
>
>> If you get problems, that isn't what you want. You want a fresh
>> install onto a cleanly-formatted partition.
>
>That would require re-installing all of my applications. They're not
>broken so I shouldn't have to re-install them.

Your programs don't sit on top of Windows, using it only for basic
in-out functions and the like. They are intimately entwined with
Windows. Installing a program may change Windows system files -
indeed it can be futile trying to define whether some files ARE
program-owned or Windows-owned.

As you only use a few programs, re-installing would hardly be onerous.

If you get any problems, I strongly recommend a full, clean install of
everything. if you don't get problems, of course I recommend leaving
things well alone :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 3:18:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fk0am09gmp5d5tl3p89gelmq9hafv9paej@4ax.com> l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk writes:

> As you only use a few programs, re-installing would hardly be onerous.

It's hard to count programs. Yes, I use only one audio
recording/editing program and one word processor, but there are all
sorts of little things that you just don't count that you use often
enough so that you'd miss them if they weren't there.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 7:08:33 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kurt Albershardt" <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message
news:2shcgjF1ku0bnU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Still no reports on RME cards after all these years?

Send him one and I bet he'll test it.
Better yet, send it to me and I will do a more thorough test for you :-)

TonyP.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 7:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
news:4164cf78$0$4310$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
> "Kurt Albershardt" <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message
> news:2shcgjF1ku0bnU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Still no reports on RME cards after all these years?
>
> Send him one and I bet he'll test it.

Indeed.

> Better yet, send it to me and I will do a more thorough test for you
> :-)

Are you sure about that?
October 7, 2004 8:11:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1g0am090p6j4k3di1r8dnjt5q2ncb058su@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:07:04 GMT, "Nick" <delonas@NOSPAMcultv.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> And I do feel sorry for anyone who is forced to program on Windows, but
>>> it probably beats working for Christian radio....
>>
>>Up until about March of 2000, it was a fantastic day job/career. Now it's
>>not.
>
> Were they pissed off because Armageddon, or whatever they call it,
> didn't arrive on cue for the Millennium?

The full answer is complex and I don't even know all of it.

A lot of companies did break the bank fixing all the Y2K bugs (which were
real BTW). I do think there was some managerial backlash over that.
Whatever the reason, starting around the time of the NASDAQ crash, it became
harder and harder to find enough work. And then things *really* got bad
after the 9/11 attacks. Competition from programmers in India and elsewhere
is also part of it, but not the whole story.

Major new IT projects are typically expensive and risky. I think a lot of
executives just aren't willing to take those kinds of risks in the current
economic situation. In any case, once lucrative IT contracts are much
shorter, they pay far less per hour, and they're harder to come by than any
time I've ever seen since I got out of graduate school in 1988.

--Nick
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:12:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> As you only use a few programs, re-installing would hardly be onerous.


It's not reinstalling programs that's the hassle -- it's:

1. finding, downloading and reinstalling all the updates and patches,
and
2. reconfiguring all the preference settings, screen layouts and menu
formats that finally became useful, comfortable and co-operative with
everything else on the machine after months of screwing around.

I figured I'd get around the problem by buying Norton Ghost and creating
a clone of my drive every time I made a "successful" change. That way I
could truly "go back" if I messed something up or had a drive failure.
No joy. My laptop has no floppy drive. I finally broke down and bought
an external one for WAY too much money, only to discover that the
machine obviously can't boot from a USB device. @#$&*!!!

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
October 7, 2004 9:59:37 PM

Archived from groups: cakewalk.audio,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah, I've been to your site and found it to be a great help to a
certain level. But when you get to the subtle differences at the top
of the list, I can't see anything on your site that clearly shows any
difference between the Lynx and the rest at the top- which includes
the delta 1010, and it's probably fair to guess the new Layla would
make it as well. The delta 1010 is tested with Rightmark but Lynx
isn't, so it's difficult to understand any minute differences without
someone holding your hand- "see how this curve goes up 2 points here,
well THIS curve goes up 3!"



>From: Tony (tony_roe@tpg.com.au)

>FWIW, I find it variously interesting or amusing when I hear people
>(including friends and others I respect) making comments like...
>
>"sound card ABCD sounds a lot better than WXYZ - I had a WXYZ, but
>over the weekend I uninstalled it and installed an ABCD, and the
>difference was amazing - more detailed, warmer, ... endless mindless
>blather, etc"
>
>Of course most of the observed effect is...
> - listening to WXYZ when tired at the end of a session
> - the expectation of improvement (new cars go faster)
> - listening to ABCD when refreshed at the beginning of a new session
> - more subtle things - eg, a friend recently replaced a Hoontech
>system with a Layla G3, and pronounced the Layla sounded a lot
better,
>and a lot louder (higher level outputs); of course louder generally
>does sound better.


That pretty much sums up my feelings. This board seems to have a
healthy skepticism of the audiophile crowd, but when it comes to
comparing "pro-sumer" soundcards and high-end converters, it sounds
very similar to people who hear the difference after painting speaker
wire with "audiophile grade laquer"- or was it enamel?

Wouldn't it be great if all the popular soundcards and converters were
truly put head-to-head in controlled double blind listening tests and
super-high-tech-gee-wiz tests above and beyond the usual THD, FR, etc.
It seems like some company out there would be capable of pulling this
off, and it seems so obvious, and would benefit them greatly if their
claims of superiority could be proven true. I suspect they can't prove
shiznit and know it.

Until then, I view most comparisons as audiophile balogna. I don't
know where the "perfect enough for humans" point is, but I suspect the
sound from all three of these cards is indistinguishable from anything
else out there. What features do you need(motu), and how much do you
value impressing clients(protools, even 001 will do- too bad mackie or
peavey don't make a soundcard, they would like, rule, dude.)
!