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Can I plug my electric guitar or keyboard directly into Ly..

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October 6, 2004 5:51:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Can I plug my electric guitar or keyboard directly into my LynxOne soundcard
or do I really need other gear between these like preamps and compressors
and if so why do I need these ?
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 10:42:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" <marcoraicevic@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:VgW8d.171661$ji3.1789003@weber.videotron.net...
> Can I plug my electric guitar or keyboard directly into my LynxOne
soundcard
> or do I really need other gear between these like preamps and compressors
> and if so why do I need these ?

Keyboard probably yes, electric guitar, probably not.

Electric guitars (except the very few that have onboard active
electronics -- you can tell, because they use batteries) are designed to
work into a high impedance load, at least 100,000 ohms (100k) and more often
something like 1 million ohms (1M). Typically soundcards have an input
impedance of 10k - 20k, which would load down the guitar's pickups
excessively, resulting in extremely poor tone.

Electric guitars also have a fairly low output level, which needs to be
boosted up to "line level" in order to be appropriate for a soundcard.
(There are several standard line levels, but that's another discussion.)

A preamp specifically designed for instruments (or one with inputs for both
microphones and instruments) does both jobs: it provides the electric guitar
with the load it likes, and amplifies it to an appropriate line level.

Keyboards, on the other hand, typically have outputs that are high enough to
go directly into a soundcard, and they don't mind the sort of input
impedances typical of soundcards, so you should be able to run a cable
straight in.

Peace,
Paul
October 6, 2004 10:42:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Paul. By the way, do you recommend that I buy a mackie 1202,for
example as interface between my LynxOne soundcard and my electric guitar (as
well as the keyboard) ? Or would you advise getting a preamp? Are there any
models which you can recommend?

Thanks,
Mark

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:J0X8d.670884$Gx4.619976@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "mark" <marcoraicevic@videotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:VgW8d.171661$ji3.1789003@weber.videotron.net...
> > Can I plug my electric guitar or keyboard directly into my LynxOne
> soundcard
> > or do I really need other gear between these like preamps and
compressors
> > and if so why do I need these ?
>
> Keyboard probably yes, electric guitar, probably not.
>
> Electric guitars (except the very few that have onboard active
> electronics -- you can tell, because they use batteries) are designed to
> work into a high impedance load, at least 100,000 ohms (100k) and more
often
> something like 1 million ohms (1M). Typically soundcards have an input
> impedance of 10k - 20k, which would load down the guitar's pickups
> excessively, resulting in extremely poor tone.
>
> Electric guitars also have a fairly low output level, which needs to be
> boosted up to "line level" in order to be appropriate for a soundcard.
> (There are several standard line levels, but that's another discussion.)
>
> A preamp specifically designed for instruments (or one with inputs for
both
> microphones and instruments) does both jobs: it provides the electric
guitar
> with the load it likes, and amplifies it to an appropriate line level.
>
> Keyboards, on the other hand, typically have outputs that are high enough
to
> go directly into a soundcard, and they don't mind the sort of input
> impedances typical of soundcards, so you should be able to run a cable
> straight in.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 12:42:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <VgW8d.171661$ji3.1789003@weber.videotron.net> marcoraicevic@videotron.ca writes:

> Can I plug my electric guitar or keyboard directly into my LynxOne soundcard
> or do I really need other gear between these like preamps and compressors

Electric guitar, probably not very succssfully. Keyboard maybe. But
you can't simply "plug in" either one because the Lynx card provides
XLR connectors for inputs and you'll at least need adapters.

> and if so why do I need these ?

An electric guitar pickup has a lower output voltage than the Lynx is
expecting. In addition, a guitar pickup expects to be loaded by a
higher impedance than a typical line level input. You could connect a
guitar processor (such as a Pod) with a line level output to the input
of your Lynx card with reasonable chance of success, if you like the
sound you get out of the processor.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 1:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" wrote:
> Thanks Paul. By the way, do you recommend that I buy a mackie 1202,for
> example as interface between my LynxOne soundcard and my electric guitar
(as
> well as the keyboard) ? Or would you advise getting a preamp? Are there
any
> models which you can recommend?

I think the ideal way to interface an electric guitar with a soundcard is by
way of a mic'ed amp.

In any case, the mackie is going to have the same impedance issue that your
soundcard does. If you're really determined to record the guitar direct, you
need a direct box or a pre that has a DI built in. A recommendation of which
depends on what you need it to do and how much you're willing to spend to do
it--you can find cheepo DI's for under $50 and spendy ones for well over
$1000.

-jw
October 7, 2004 1:40:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi John,
Thanks for your help.
But what if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box (don't they
have a built in preamp) with my electric guitar, then I shouldn't have a
problem interfacing with the mackie 1202 to record to my LynxOne soundcard
right?
Greetings,
Mark

"John Washburn" <johnwashburn99@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FDZ8d.63602$Ot3.36314@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> "mark" wrote:
> > Thanks Paul. By the way, do you recommend that I buy a mackie 1202,for
> > example as interface between my LynxOne soundcard and my electric guitar
> (as
> > well as the keyboard) ? Or would you advise getting a preamp? Are there
> any
> > models which you can recommend?
>
> I think the ideal way to interface an electric guitar with a soundcard is
by
> way of a mic'ed amp.
>
> In any case, the mackie is going to have the same impedance issue that
your
> soundcard does. If you're really determined to record the guitar direct,
you
> need a direct box or a pre that has a DI built in. A recommendation of
which
> depends on what you need it to do and how much you're willing to spend to
do
> it--you can find cheepo DI's for under $50 and spendy ones for well over
> $1000.
>
> -jw
>
>
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:28:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" <marcoraicevic@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:wcY8d.93383$247.1879654@wagner.videotron.net...
> Thanks Paul. By the way, do you recommend that I buy a mackie 1202,for
> example as interface between my LynxOne soundcard and my electric guitar
(as
> well as the keyboard) ? Or would you advise getting a preamp? Are there
any
> models which you can recommend?

The Mackie mixers have the same problems as the soundcard: too-low impedance
on the line inputs. I would suggest a preamp with an instrument input or one
designed for nothing but instruments. Or something like a Pod or SansAmp,
which simulate guitar amplifiers (the former digitally, the latter
analogically). There are lots of preamps and such out there; how much were
you looking to spend?

Peace,
Paul
October 7, 2004 10:20:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1097093881k@trad...
> Electric guitar, probably not very succssfully. Keyboard maybe. But
> you can't simply "plug in" either one because the Lynx card provides
> XLR connectors for inputs and you'll at least need adapters.
>


I"ll have to buy an XLR>1/4" adaptor to plug the keyboard in directly which
they sell at the LynxOne web site: http://www.lynxstudio.com/cables.html


> An electric guitar pickup has a lower output voltage than the Lynx is
> expecting. In addition, a guitar pickup expects to be loaded by a
> higher impedance than a typical line level input.

I asked LynxOne about this and they replied as follows
to the question if I could plug my electric guitar into the LynxOne card
directly and how to connect the LynxOne card to my monsoon mm702 computer
speakers?:

"Guitars are hi-impedance so it is much more ideal to use a direct box
before connecting to the LynxONE. You can connect consumer speakers by
adapting the cables from 1/8" to XLR, but you will need to set the trim
level in the Lynx Mixer to -10. It is important to understand that in
the -10 dBV trim position will decrease output levels, but INCREASE input
signals. It is preferable to use pro-caliber, +4dBu devices on the inputs
and outputs of the LynxONE. Using a mixer as a front-end device is
definitely a good idea."

He seems to be saying there's nothing wrong with using a mixer as a
front-end device or as a way of interfacing all these various parts?
Also , he seems to recommend I use pro-caliber devices whatever that means.
I guess it partly means I need to buy
expensive $1000 monitor speakers? I don't really get the part about "+4dBu
devices on the inputs and outputs of the LynxOne" stuff?


>You could connect a
> guitar processor (such as a Pod) with a line level
>output to the input
> of your Lynx card

What if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box - that has a
preamp in it doesn't - wouldn't that work. I've been using the digitech rp1
to amplify my electric guitar on my computer through monsoon mm702 computer
speakers and an onboard ac97 audio soundcard on my ecs k7s5a motherboard .
And it sounds quite good - I was surprised how good it sounded and how loud
aswell.
October 7, 2004 10:38:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:iu49d.501429$OB3.371723@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The Mackie mixers have the same problems as the soundcard: too-low
impedance
> on the line inputs.
A LynxOne representative responded that "Using a mixer as a front-end device
is definitely a good idea."


> I would suggest a preamp with an instrument input or one
> designed for nothing but instruments. Or something like a Pod or SansAmp,
> which simulate guitar amplifiers (the former digitally, the latter
> analogically). There are lots of preamps and such out there; how much were
> you looking to spend?

What about using my digitech rp1 effects box?
I've owned a Peavey classic 50 tube amp which has that warm distortion and
also low hum in the background when you have it on. But I didn't see a
difference between the two, the digitech holds it's own to the tube sound .
I guess it's a matter of personal taste. But in terms of recording you could
record direct with the help of digital effects and forgot about using any
tube sound effect. And if you wanted a bit of the live sound you could mix
that in with a separate recording of a speaker/amp with a mic at various
distances, no?

>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
>
Peace
mark
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 3:18:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4V%8d.182380$ji3.1963941@weber.videotron.net> marcoraicevic@videotron.ca writes:

> But what if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box (don't they
> have a built in preamp) with my electric guitar, then I shouldn't have a
> problem interfacing with the mackie 1202 to record to my LynxOne soundcard
> right?

Have you tried it? What problems have you experienced?

Why do people who have everything they need to try an experiment ask
what might be wrong before they even try? It's not like you're in
danger of damaging anything. Just plug them together and see what it
sounds like. If the RP1 has a guitar input, then you can plug your
guitar into it. It's highly unlikely that its output won't work well
going into your Mackie mixer, and you almost certainly already have
cables that will fit the jacks all around.

If you don't like the sound of your guitar (and you may not, since it
isn't going through a real speaker and into a real room), then
describe what it is that you don't like and perhaps you'll get some
more useful suggestions.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 3:18:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <YL89d.942$pF5.9474@wagner.videotron.net> marcoraicevic@videotron.ca writes:

> He seems to be saying there's nothing wrong with using a mixer as a
> front-end device or as a way of interfacing all these various parts?

He didn't say anything about a mixer pro or con. (and I don't mean
'professional' and 'consumer' here) But Paul pointed out that you will
have the same impedance mismatch issue going into a mixer as you will
going directly into the Lynx card. That being said, I have plugged an
electric guitar directly into the line input of my Mackie 1402 VLZ
Pro, cranked the trim control up so that I got a decent signal level
on the mixer's meters, and I get something that sounds like a direct
recorded guitar out of it. Kind of thin, a little shy on the high end
(which is sometimes desirable) but at least I could hear the guitar.
No, it didn't sound like it was coming at me from an amplifer, but it
was certainly an electric guitar sound.

You need to just do it and see what you get. People can tell you that
you may not care for the sound you get, but maybe it will be OK for
you.

> Also , he seems to recommend I use pro-caliber devices whatever that means.
> I guess it partly means I need to buy
> expensive $1000 monitor speakers? I don't really get the part about "+4dBu
> devices on the inputs and outputs of the LynxOne" stuff?

Well, if you can't hear what you're recording, what's the point? The
Lynx cards were meant to work at the "professional" nominal operating
level of +4 dBu. It's capable of operating at the nomial -10 dBV
level. In this mode, the input sensitivity is raised so that it takes
a smaller signal to get to a given digital level, but also the output
level is lowered so that, on playback, that digital level (say -20 on
the Lynx or recording applicaiton's meters) will produce a lower level
going to your monitor speakers.

Ethan Winer wrote an article in EQ (I think) a year or so ago about
how to effectively use a mixer like your Mackie along with a sound
card effectively. The article may be on his web site
(http://www.ethanwiner.com). If you use your mixer as a mic preamp and
master controller, you'll have everything you need and things will
start to make sense as you use it.

Getting a satisfactory recorded electric guitar sound without an
amplifier, microphone, and decent room is not a trivial plug-and-play
job. You may be able to use your Digitech box, you may need a direct
box, you may find that a flexible processor such as the Pod or Sans
Amp will do what you need. But those are all external to the basic
system which you apparently have yet to set up.

> What if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box - that has a
> preamp in it doesn't - wouldn't that work. I've been using the digitech rp1
> to amplify my electric guitar on my computer through monsoon mm702 computer
> speakers and an onboard ac97 audio soundcard on my ecs k7s5a motherboard .
> And it sounds quite good - I was surprised how good it sounded and how loud
> aswell.

Just do it.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 4:28:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" <marcoraicevic@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:4V%8d.182380$ji3.1963941@weber.videotron.net
> Hi John,
> Thanks for your help.
> But what if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box (don't
> they have a built in preamp) with my electric guitar, then I
> shouldn't have a problem interfacing with the mackie 1202 to record
> to my LynxOne soundcard right?

I seem to recollect that the outputs of these devices are often compatible
with line level inputs.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 7:25:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" wrote:
> Hi John,
> Thanks for your help.
> But what if I use my digitech rp1 electric guitar effects box (don't they
> have a built in preamp) with my electric guitar, then I shouldn't have a
> problem interfacing with the mackie 1202 to record to my LynxOne soundcard
> right?

I don't know the rp1, but the manual should discribe the various ways to
hook it up. If it's intended for direct recording, ala a Pod or Sansamp,
then it should work fine. You might even be able to plug it into the
soundcard without having to bother with the mackie.

Have you tried it straight in? What does it sound like?

-jw
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 8:26:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"mark" <marcoraicevic@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:k099d.1245$pF5.12239@wagner.videotron.net...

> > I would suggest a preamp with an instrument input or one
> > designed for nothing but instruments. Or something like a Pod or
SansAmp,
> > which simulate guitar amplifiers (the former digitally, the latter
> > analogically). There are lots of preamps and such out there; how much
were
> > you looking to spend?
>
> What about using my digitech rp1 effects box?
> I've owned a Peavey classic 50 tube amp which has that warm distortion and
> also low hum in the background when you have it on. But I didn't see a
> difference between the two, the digitech holds it's own to the tube sound
..
> I guess it's a matter of personal taste. But in terms of recording you
could
> record direct with the help of digital effects and forgot about using any
> tube sound effect. And if you wanted a bit of the live sound you could mix
> that in with a separate recording of a speaker/amp with a mic at various
> distances, no?

Yes. As Mike says, try it.

One thing, though: if the Peavey amp is humming you should bring it in and
get it serviced; it shouldn't be. (Unless you're picking up hum through your
guitar's pickups, in which case it'll be there with the Digitech too.)

Peace,
Paul
October 7, 2004 11:29:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1097148810k@trad...
> Ethan Winer wrote an article in EQ (I think) a year or so ago about
> how to effectively use a mixer like your Mackie along with a sound
> card effectively. The article may be on his web site
> (http://www.ethanwiner.com). If you use your mixer as a mic preamp and
> master controller, you'll have everything you need and things will
> start to make sense as you use it.

The "ethanwiner.com " web site you recommended doesn't work.

Thanks for your help Mike.

Mark
October 7, 2004 11:41:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:B6e9d.504325$OB3.404829@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> One thing, though: if the Peavey amp is humming you should bring it in and
> get it serviced; it shouldn't be. (Unless you're picking up hum through
your
> guitar's pickups, in which case it'll be there with the Digitech too.)
>

I sold the Peavey classic 50 amp. I found using tube amp distortion and
digital effects with a solid state amp wasn't terribly different in terms of
the quality of sound. In fact the tube amp was probably not as clean
sounding when you wanted to play without effects - I guess I meant in terms
of the amount of harmonic distortion produced by the amp .
October 7, 2004 11:54:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1097148073k@trad...
> Why do people who have everything they need to try an experiment ask
> what might be wrong before they even try? It's not like you're in
> danger of damaging anything. Just plug them together and see what it
> sounds like. If the RP1 has a guitar input, then you can plug your
> guitar into it. It's highly unlikely that its output won't work well
> going into your Mackie mixer, and you almost certainly already have
> cables that will fit the jacks all around.
>
I can't test to see if it works yet since I just bought the LynxOne card a
few days ago and I don't own a Mackie mixer yet; this is what I was asking
about: whether I should get a mixer to go along with the LynxOne. I went
today to the music store to get an xlr male to 1/4 female adapter so that I
could hook up the LynxOne (which only has xlr connectors) to my digitech rp1
effect box (which only has 1/4 connectors) and my keyboard but they were all
out of them.

I already tried connecting the guitar >digitech rp1 effects box to the
onboard soundcard (ac97) on my motherboard and worked like a charm. The
sound was great through my mm702 monsoon computer speakers; I was pleasantly
surprised . It was very comparable to the sound I was getting from the
Peavey tube amp and a quality speaker cabinet. And it only cost me $50 for
the speakers (used) and $150 for the effects box(used). I can't see the
sound improving drastically with an inverstment of a few $1000 dollars on a
tube amp/cabinet . I think where the real difference comes in is the quality
of the musician.
!