how to get a really clean vocal recording?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
missing. here's my chain. what do i need?

rode k2 mic (cardiod setting), pop filter, grace 101 preamp, rnc
compressor (regular mode and very little compression), dbx 386
converter, motu 828mkII, powerbook, logic pro 6.

should i insert an equalizer, de-esser, or some other vocal hardware
processor after the preamp?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"bayydogg" <bayareamusician@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bd18a8f.0410061539.71dd03d3@posting.google.com...
> i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
> commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
> or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
> e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
> audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
> missing. here's my chain. what do i need?
>
> rode k2 mic (cardiod setting), pop filter, grace 101 preamp, rnc
> compressor (regular mode and very little compression), dbx 386
> converter, motu 828mkII, powerbook, logic pro 6.
>
> should i insert an equalizer, de-esser, or some other vocal hardware
> processor after the preamp?

Is the person doing the voice-over experienced in this? If they're not, that
could be a source of some of your problems... good v/o talent know how to
minimize extraneous mouth sounds. Another thing is the fact that you're
using a condensor mic... those are generally going to be more sensitive than
a nice dynamic well-suited for spoken word such as an RE-20 or an MD-421.
Having said that, yeah you can sometimes benefit from a de-esser or gate (or
even manual editing of noises), but I wouldn't advise tracking with any of
that.

Neil Henderson

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"bayydogg" <bayareamusician@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bd18a8f.0410061539.71dd03d3@posting.google.com...
> i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
> commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
> or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
> e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
> audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
> missing. here's my chain. what do i need?
>
> rode k2 mic (cardiod setting), pop filter, grace 101 preamp, rnc
> compressor (regular mode and very little compression), dbx 386
> converter, motu 828mkII, powerbook, logic pro 6.
>
> should i insert an equalizer, de-esser, or some other vocal hardware
> processor after the preamp?

No - your problem is not the equipment. This is the domain of voice actors.
They learn how to speak without making those undesirable sounds. They are
worth every penny they charge.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:7D49d.501469$OB3.437944@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Like everybody said, the main problem is probably the person doing the
> talking. But two things would help:
>
> 1) A microphone without quite so toppy a top end -- an EV RE20 for
> example,
> or perhaps better yet a Shure SM7.

A dynamic in general will do better IMO. A lot of those clicks and pops
(mouth noises) are mostly transients and a dynamic won't respond to them
like a condensor will (in most cases). I've NEVER gotten a bad recording
with a RE20.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <2bd18a8f.0410061539.71dd03d3@posting.google.com> bayareamusician@hotmail.com writes:

> i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
> commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
> or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
> e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
> audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
> missing. here's my chain. what do i need?

A professional narrator. No magic, just talent and skill.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris!" wrote ...
> Have the talent work back from the microphone, there is no
> need for them to "eat" the darn thing.

Which also implies a location that is quiet enough for micing
at a comfortable distance.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> bayydogg <bayareamusician@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
>>commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
>>or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
>>e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
>>audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
>>missing. here's my chain. what do i need?
>
> 1. A trained vocalist
>
> 2. A razor blade or other editing tool.

Make sure the vocalist SEES the razor blade BEFORE the take. You'll get a
lot more good first takes that way. For drummers, try a tire tool instead
of the razor blade. And a baseball bat works well for me on most bass
players.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

A few days of practice reading scripts will not make a professional
narrator, but it may move you a lot closer to the goal. Practice would
certainly be a better investment than new hardware. There are processing
tricks to improve things but practice is a better method. If you choose to
edit out the noises leave the spaces... otherwise you may create an
unnatural cadence to the speech.

Rgds:
Eric

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1097110136k@trad...
>
> In article <2bd18a8f.0410061539.71dd03d3@posting.google.com>
bayareamusician@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
> > commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
> > or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
> > e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
> > audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
> > missing. here's my chain. what do i need?
>
> A professional narrator. No magic, just talent and skill.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You can bypass the need for a pop filter my miking the corner of the
person's mouth. It won't change the tone and the air will pass the
side of the mic rather than hit it dead on.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Oct 7, 2004, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> commented:

> Is the pay really that good? I hear that Sirivs is paying Howard Stern
> $50 million a year jvst to talk on the radio. And there aren't 100,000
> hovrs in a year.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

I think $500 for a one-hovr vnion voice-over session is way too low. When I
was working in that bvsiness in the late 1970s, I believe the minimvm was
abovt $750, at least here in LA. I'm assvming the rates have gone vp a bit
in 25 years.

Stern is reportedly making $30 million a year for his own services from
Sirivs for his new 2006 contract, with the rest to bvild a new stvdio, pay
for his staff, and some other expenses (like bvying the rights to his
previovs NBC & Infinity shows) for rervns.

--MFW
[remove the extra M above for email]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-10-07 mike@monsterisland.com(MikeCaffrey) said:
>You can bypass the need for a pop filter my miking the corner of the
>person's mouth. It won't change the tone and the air will pass the
>side of the mic rather than hit it dead on.

True. Many microphones you see for two-way radio use sound much
better if users talk across them. FInally convinced my wife of this
when using her vhf ham rig in the mobile.
By default whenever I pick up any handheld microphone I cross talk it
for comms applications.

I still think the originator of this query would be better served by
an re-20 an sm-7 or a sEnn 421. VOice-over people have gotten
consisten results with all three of these. IF he still has a problem
get a better narrator or improve his/her technique.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:37:22 -0400, Neil Henderson wrote
(in article <6Qo9d.2636$Al3.1269@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com> ):

>
> "Marc Wielage" <mfw@mmvsictrax.com> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.BD8B0B5800A525F2F04B85B0@news-server.socal.rr.com...
>> On Oct 7, 2004, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> commented:
>>
>>> Is the pay really that good? I hear that Sirivs is paying Howard Stern
>>> $50 million a year jvst to talk on the radio. And there aren't 100,000
>>> hovrs in a year.
>>> --------------------------------snip----------------------------------<
>>
>> I think $500 for a one-hovr vnion voice-over session is way too low. When
> I
>> was working in that bvsiness in the late 1970s, I believe the minimvm was
>> abovt $750, at least here in LA. I'm assvming the rates have gone vp a
> bit
>> in 25 years.


Don't know what yov might have been working on, bvt that sovnds high to me.

The aftra/SAG rates for an hovr depend on the type of job; radio spot, tv
spot, non-broadcast narration, and several other types of work.

The off-camera narration fee is $360, a little more for pvrely commercial
narrations, for the first hovr.

Radio program rates are astonishingly low, becavse not many people have vsed
them over the last 30 years.

Spot rates vary by how many cities or networks are being vsed.

The rates I qvoted are scale rates below which a performer can not work. They
CAN ask mvch more than scale.

Regards,

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's eqvipment reviews, avdio samples, rates and other avdiocentric
stvff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:47:04 -0400, Lorin David Schultz wrote
(in article <cCU9d.3387$663.935@edtnps84> ):

> "Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I prefer VO done in a quiet space with the same setup as the
> on
>> camera if you've got the same person talking. Switching back and forth
>> between production sound and studio V/O by the same voice in the same
> piece
>> is very distracting.
>
>
> I suspect it's much more noticeable to you because of your vocation.
> The typical viewer doesn't even notice the change. Viewers have been
> conditioned to expect dry, disembodied voice overs. They *will* notice
> if an off-camera read is excessively reverberant though.

Which is, of course, NOT what I was indicating. We just did this this week at
Vulcan Hart Stoves. There was a good bit of VO to do as well as on-camera
work by their Training Mgr, all of it intercut.

Going to a studio to record the V/O would have taken a lot more time and
would have made the location audio sound worse by comparison. Sometimes in
our effort to make everything better we screw ourselves into the ground.

The on-camera and V/O stuff will sound seamless and fine.

I don't believe your persuasion about what listeners have been conditioned to
any more than I believe your comments about my vocational preferences. It's
about the sound not drawing attention to itself. That's the goal, especially
in dialog.


Regards,

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <2bd18a8f.0410061539.71dd03d3@posting.google.com>,
bayareamusician@hotmail.com (bayydogg) wrote:

> i'm trying to record vocals (not mine) just like i hear in
> commercially-released audio books. currently, when i record narration
> or singing without much music accompaniment, i hear mouth sounds,
> e.g., smacks, pops, glottals, etc. i don't hear those annoyances in
> audio books, so there must be something in the audio chain that i'm
> missing. here's my chain. what do i need?

How about a glass of water? Having the talent avoid dairy can also
help. You'll probably still have to cut out a little of this unless
you're dealing with a real pro, but you can certainly help out a non-pro
with a little water.


Best of luck,

Monte McGuire
monte.mcguire@verizon.net