Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)
Any of you guys try this program; PCI Latency Tool v1.02?
I've played around with it a little. I should try this with IL2. Cause
when there's a lot of flak, targets, objects, ... it can cause the game to
jerk-pause-stutter real bad. Plus, this might help me in LoMAC. Now
that game stutteres real bad even at 640 rez with low details.
Currently, I just launch the program, select my video and enter a number
like 80 into the box at the bottom and click on "Set Now". Close the
program, and then go play one of my games. (note: default setting =
255.)
You can read more details in the two posts below.
Note: I have an AMD 2800, 512mb Ram, with ATI 9800 pro 128mb video. I
play IL2 at 1024 with most details on hi/max.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From Freestone
PCI Latency Tool
http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/modcontrols/mods.asp
look under "utilities"
12-27-04 Summit Staff checked
Utility: advanced, tweaking of settings; use at your own risk, read
readme
Most modern graphics cards "hog the bus", where the Latency values are
up to 255! However, the modern soundcards need about 180 on the Bus,
and the bus gives to them only 32 or 64!
The symptoms of a "choking soundcard" is where the music stutters and
distorts and the character jerks along, especially at a low fps, with
many mods! One might think that this is a "driver or directx problem"!
With this fix, one can hear MW sounds that never ever were heard
before, as the soundcard, like the Audigy2 zs, can now process all of
the sounds. One can now run the character through the thickest of
balmora even at 6fps!
===========================
apparently, i read, that all creative products get bus-shafted by the
video card where the pci bus has it where the video card
FORCES
the bios and windows to give as much as 255 to the bus for vid cards
and a audigy2
NEEDS
higher than the 32 that is given to it!!
other sound cards are not so demanding.
i have read that 90% of audigy problems are from this alone!! many
many blame the card, but even in advanced systems advanced bios
settings, there are
often NO way to set the pci bus for
*each*
device! you have to "32" or "64" all of the devices!
so
here comes that nifty little program that i have found and it is on the
Summit, above.
you can set each device.
i recommend this...
160 for the audigy
90 for the vid card.
64 for the hard drive.
32 for all others.
do not change anything that has a "000" value.
no one reporst overheating of devices.
use at your own risk as system vary!
try different values.
you even can set up different setting for each game !!
in my morrowind, i got terrible stuttering and sound problems until i
used this.
then enjoy the amazing sound card!!
freestone
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From freestone
here is more about this latency tool
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31185&hl=latency
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31182
---part of my post, there.
well well well....
I have an audigy2 zs myself and my morrowind *WAS* real choppy
until i found out that the problem was due to my audigy2 card!
*not* the card itself, it is a wonderfull card, it was due to the fact
that my radeon 9600xt card was using 255 "units" of the BUS!!
this poster puts it well....
QUOTE
It can be the video hogging the PCI bus. This can cause sound cards
problems. Some video card will use 248 PCI latency, while other devices
use 32 & 64. The sound card uses 32. I've used a PCI latency program to
change my video card latency to 64, it was 248. My sound is better & my
video card preforms much better. I've set all my devices to 32 except
for the video card & thats 64. My over all system runs smoother!
yes, i found that my radeon was using 255 and my audigy was using all
of 32!!
the audigy was chocking to death, not getting enough of the bus. thus
there is sputterings and especially at low fps, like below 15, the
sound waould sputter and the movement would "jerk" real badly.
I then used this program and not only does the sputterings go away and
that i can RUN at 6 fps without a jerking motion, the sound is SO much
better and then i hear sounds that i never ever heard before!!
I went back to my old post, here months ago, only to find that the link
was dead. i then, now, found two more live links.
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/6640...c86/LtcyCfg.zip
http://hbr.relaxz.net/files/Tools/LtcyCfg.zip
I fear that these will go dead soon, what i might do someday is to
upload this program to euro-morrowind or to the summit *as* a morrowind
Utility program! then it will not become lost.
my mw runs SO much better, that this program might be needed for nearly
all new systems! and so so little known too!
I set, myself, my radeon 9600xt, in the bus settings, to about 100.
i then set the audigy2 to about 150 or so.
POWERSTRIP has an option too, to set the latency values for *each*
device, but you might have to buy the complete version. but i read a
rumor that the expiration date on the trial version is "forever".
the problem is....is that the bus settings are not accessible even in
bios and only a Program can change these. even so, the Tool must reset
the settings at each reboot! but one can use a File to automaticly set
the settings upon reboot. i made a shortcut to desktop and click on it
at bootup as win98se does not have that option as winXP does.
Yes the bus is used by each device and some devices use the bus more
than others.
here is some more info, more than you might want, but the links will
soon be gone so here it all is.....
I am going to make a dedicated post on this, as this reply will not be
read by many!!
here is what a few other people have to say about this Condition of the
bus being used mostly by the vid card, chocking out the audio card!
==========================================
===========================================
UPDATE:
OK, the latency for the AGP bus for ATI cards is indeed 255! even when
you select 32 in your BIOS.
What the author or the article below claims is that this fixes some
stuttering in games but moreover get rids of audio popping and cracking
issues, due to some devices taking up to much CPU time (high latency).
with the program you can also change the latency from 32 to another you
desire (remeber it has to something which can be devided by 8).
Anyway I tested it only with Colin McRae 4 which I found stuttered very
much for me (very little stutters) even though I had 50FPS. WIth this
tweak the stutters are gone!
Never experienced stutters with other games before but hey it does not
hurt graphics performance! (tested with 3dmark03).
Get the tool and see if your graphiccard is running at 248ms latency.
Is it?
Decrease latency of it (or any other device with a latency, '000'
means: has none, but do not make a device "000"!) to 64 or below (below
may not be faster, depends on system) and go into your favorite 3D
game!
Any difference? I say YES and put my hands in fire for that.
Note that you can save the config it to a file (click 'add to list
first' or it won't work) and load it via batch file (read me) when
windows starts because otherwise windows will overwrite your settings
with the next boot (JUST LIKE IT DOES WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS! GRMMF!)
Ok, to clear some things up.
1. The changes apply for AGP also!
2. You do not have to do it after every boot.
a) Start program and make the changes you want (enter number and click
'set now' for the device you want to change) - make sure you don't
touch the devices that don't have 000 (no) latency at all
B) mark ALL entries and click on 'add to list', you will see a new
column called 'new' on the right (means it's added)
C) press 'save as' and save the table to a config file with a name you
like into the program folder I suggest
d) Go into the program folder, create a txt file and write into it:
C:\LtcyCfg\LtcyCfg.exe -f:C:\LtcyCfg\config.cfg <- Replace with your
path and name of config file of course. (I think you could leave the
folders away as the file resides in the same directory of the program,
but I never trust windows in such cases)
Then save the txt-file and replace it's extension with BAT (if you
can't see the extension you'll have to go to your
windows-explorer->extras->folder options->somewhere...Google if you
don't know and disable the 'hide extensions from known file types' or
whatever it's called in the English version of XP)
e) Drag a shortcut of that BAT-file into your auto start folder
f) Done, if you want to make changes repeat step a-c. Happy gaming and
more overall power (even on desktop)
[a-f works with winxp, i think, but not for win98se]
3. Possible heat problem: I WOULD say no. Me and my friends (one
doesn't even have a fan on his ATI!!!) didn't encounter any problems
but only improvement of performance.
Let me try to explain why (simple words, I'm no technician):
Decreasing the latency does NOT mean INCREASING the response time of
your hardware!
The BUS latency stands for: How much time does a component of your PC
(graphic card, network card, and sound card) have to perform an
operation before another component can! Note that only one component
can use the BUS at one time, then the next, then the next. In other
words: instead of letting your graphic card do 100 operations in 248ms
you set it to a lower number of operations in 32, 64, 128ms. (32 is
minimum and must be a number that
can be divided by 8)
So the problem is while leaving the graphic card latency at 248ms -
which it is mostly set to - that the component has TOO MUCH time and
other important operations (soundcard for example) can not be performed
in time, so the queue list is getting bigger and bigger-> CPU overload.
Experiment a little with the settings and see what gets you best
performance. In my opinion it's mostly the graphic card latency that
hogs the CPU but you may tweak a little more out of it. Depends on
hardware I guess. I have all my components set to 32ms now.
- - - - -
ADDED SOME MORE INFO:
Some of you might wonder why you have the "PCI Latency time" option in
your BIOS if the PCI latency is messed up if you don't use a program
like this one here.
1. Windows overwrites this setting. *Duh*
2. Some manufacturers of graphic cards and (possibly other hardware)
set the latency of their cards to 248ms internally on the card itself
(the programmer of PCIDAWG says that they do it to boost performance
and that they are obviously wrong with that in most cases)
===========================================================================
have you tried adjusting your pci latencies ?
Many ppl with Geforce/ATI video cards have got rid of clicks and pops
by reducing the agp latency. This is easily achieved with ltcycfg.exe
program. Most of these 3D cards hog the pci latency time big time with
as big latency time as 255. Try changing it to 64 or something like
that.
There's a topic about that in UAD forum. Maybe you can get your problem
fixed with this or if not totally fixed, atleast you can improve your
performance, I'm quite sure about that.
============================================================================
====
=
In the meantime, I've been reading allot about something new to me ---
PCI Latency. I've read how changing these setting fixed many
people's woes. For example, some folks were having serious problems
with sound sputtering or video freezing, etc., and were later fixed
when they changed their PCI latency settings for some of their devices.
For those who are not familiar with PCI Latency, it is the amount of
"wait" time PCI is allocated to communicate with any given peripheral.
>From what I understand, a device with a high PCI Latency setting takes
more PCI bus time than another device with a lower setting. Normally,
the PCI Latency Timer is set to 32 cycles. This means the active PCI
device has to complete its transactions within 32 clock cycles or hand
it over to the next PCI device. As you can see, a device, like my video
card (in fact, all my video cards) which has a setting of 248
essentially "hogs" the PCI Bus when compared to the G520 whose
setting is 128. My Soundblaster sound card is set for 64 on the machine
with the G520 and 32 on my other PCs. I'm beginning think that D-Link
is switching the order of the cards to minimize the cards fighting for
PCI bus time in lieu of having you change the PCI Latency setting.
Think about it, the more time a vendors card has access to the PCI Bus,
the less likely that it will cause havoc because it will have the time
needed to do its thing. Once I get my G520, I will play with the PCI
Latency settings and report back what I find.
Anyway, the utility that I found is called LtcyCfg.exe which is a
pretty simple tool to use. It will show the PCI Latency setting of all
your devices and will allow you to change them. I've attached it for
your use. I've used it with no ill affects.
BE WARNED however, that this tool gives the user access to settings
that could potentially cause damage for which I cannot be held
responsible (seeing as I'm just the messenger anyway).
============================================================================
====
=======
It can be the video hogging the PCI bus. This can cause sound cards
problems. Some video card will use 248 PCI latency, while other devices
use 32 & 64. The sound card uses 32. I've used a PCI latency program to
change my video card latency to 64, it was 248. My sound is better & my
video card preforms much better. I've set all my devices to 32 except
for the video card & thats 64. My over all system runs smoother!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
It doesn't help to make these settings is the bios. You need the PCI
latency tool
to make the change.
============================================================================
====
==========
there. more than you might want to Know!
please post reply if LtcyCfg helps your game!!
freestone
Any of you guys try this program; PCI Latency Tool v1.02?
I've played around with it a little. I should try this with IL2. Cause
when there's a lot of flak, targets, objects, ... it can cause the game to
jerk-pause-stutter real bad. Plus, this might help me in LoMAC. Now
that game stutteres real bad even at 640 rez with low details.
Currently, I just launch the program, select my video and enter a number
like 80 into the box at the bottom and click on "Set Now". Close the
program, and then go play one of my games. (note: default setting =
255.)
You can read more details in the two posts below.
Note: I have an AMD 2800, 512mb Ram, with ATI 9800 pro 128mb video. I
play IL2 at 1024 with most details on hi/max.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From Freestone
PCI Latency Tool
http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/modcontrols/mods.asp
look under "utilities"
12-27-04 Summit Staff checked
Utility: advanced, tweaking of settings; use at your own risk, read
readme
Most modern graphics cards "hog the bus", where the Latency values are
up to 255! However, the modern soundcards need about 180 on the Bus,
and the bus gives to them only 32 or 64!
The symptoms of a "choking soundcard" is where the music stutters and
distorts and the character jerks along, especially at a low fps, with
many mods! One might think that this is a "driver or directx problem"!
With this fix, one can hear MW sounds that never ever were heard
before, as the soundcard, like the Audigy2 zs, can now process all of
the sounds. One can now run the character through the thickest of
balmora even at 6fps!
===========================
apparently, i read, that all creative products get bus-shafted by the
video card where the pci bus has it where the video card
FORCES
the bios and windows to give as much as 255 to the bus for vid cards
and a audigy2
NEEDS
higher than the 32 that is given to it!!
other sound cards are not so demanding.
i have read that 90% of audigy problems are from this alone!! many
many blame the card, but even in advanced systems advanced bios
settings, there are
often NO way to set the pci bus for
*each*
device! you have to "32" or "64" all of the devices!
so
here comes that nifty little program that i have found and it is on the
Summit, above.
you can set each device.
i recommend this...
160 for the audigy
90 for the vid card.
64 for the hard drive.
32 for all others.
do not change anything that has a "000" value.
no one reporst overheating of devices.
use at your own risk as system vary!
try different values.
you even can set up different setting for each game !!
in my morrowind, i got terrible stuttering and sound problems until i
used this.
then enjoy the amazing sound card!!
freestone
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From freestone
here is more about this latency tool
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31185&hl=latency
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31182
---part of my post, there.
well well well....
I have an audigy2 zs myself and my morrowind *WAS* real choppy
until i found out that the problem was due to my audigy2 card!
*not* the card itself, it is a wonderfull card, it was due to the fact
that my radeon 9600xt card was using 255 "units" of the BUS!!
this poster puts it well....
QUOTE
It can be the video hogging the PCI bus. This can cause sound cards
problems. Some video card will use 248 PCI latency, while other devices
use 32 & 64. The sound card uses 32. I've used a PCI latency program to
change my video card latency to 64, it was 248. My sound is better & my
video card preforms much better. I've set all my devices to 32 except
for the video card & thats 64. My over all system runs smoother!
yes, i found that my radeon was using 255 and my audigy was using all
of 32!!
the audigy was chocking to death, not getting enough of the bus. thus
there is sputterings and especially at low fps, like below 15, the
sound waould sputter and the movement would "jerk" real badly.
I then used this program and not only does the sputterings go away and
that i can RUN at 6 fps without a jerking motion, the sound is SO much
better and then i hear sounds that i never ever heard before!!
I went back to my old post, here months ago, only to find that the link
was dead. i then, now, found two more live links.
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/6640...c86/LtcyCfg.zip
http://hbr.relaxz.net/files/Tools/LtcyCfg.zip
I fear that these will go dead soon, what i might do someday is to
upload this program to euro-morrowind or to the summit *as* a morrowind
Utility program! then it will not become lost.
my mw runs SO much better, that this program might be needed for nearly
all new systems! and so so little known too!
I set, myself, my radeon 9600xt, in the bus settings, to about 100.
i then set the audigy2 to about 150 or so.
POWERSTRIP has an option too, to set the latency values for *each*
device, but you might have to buy the complete version. but i read a
rumor that the expiration date on the trial version is "forever".
the problem is....is that the bus settings are not accessible even in
bios and only a Program can change these. even so, the Tool must reset
the settings at each reboot! but one can use a File to automaticly set
the settings upon reboot. i made a shortcut to desktop and click on it
at bootup as win98se does not have that option as winXP does.
Yes the bus is used by each device and some devices use the bus more
than others.
here is some more info, more than you might want, but the links will
soon be gone so here it all is.....
I am going to make a dedicated post on this, as this reply will not be
read by many!!
here is what a few other people have to say about this Condition of the
bus being used mostly by the vid card, chocking out the audio card!
==========================================
===========================================
UPDATE:
OK, the latency for the AGP bus for ATI cards is indeed 255! even when
you select 32 in your BIOS.
What the author or the article below claims is that this fixes some
stuttering in games but moreover get rids of audio popping and cracking
issues, due to some devices taking up to much CPU time (high latency).
with the program you can also change the latency from 32 to another you
desire (remeber it has to something which can be devided by 8).
Anyway I tested it only with Colin McRae 4 which I found stuttered very
much for me (very little stutters) even though I had 50FPS. WIth this
tweak the stutters are gone!
Never experienced stutters with other games before but hey it does not
hurt graphics performance! (tested with 3dmark03).
Get the tool and see if your graphiccard is running at 248ms latency.
Is it?
Decrease latency of it (or any other device with a latency, '000'
means: has none, but do not make a device "000"!) to 64 or below (below
may not be faster, depends on system) and go into your favorite 3D
game!
Any difference? I say YES and put my hands in fire for that.
Note that you can save the config it to a file (click 'add to list
first' or it won't work) and load it via batch file (read me) when
windows starts because otherwise windows will overwrite your settings
with the next boot (JUST LIKE IT DOES WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS! GRMMF!)
Ok, to clear some things up.
1. The changes apply for AGP also!
2. You do not have to do it after every boot.
a) Start program and make the changes you want (enter number and click
'set now' for the device you want to change) - make sure you don't
touch the devices that don't have 000 (no) latency at all
B) mark ALL entries and click on 'add to list', you will see a new
column called 'new' on the right (means it's added)
C) press 'save as' and save the table to a config file with a name you
like into the program folder I suggest
d) Go into the program folder, create a txt file and write into it:
C:\LtcyCfg\LtcyCfg.exe -f:C:\LtcyCfg\config.cfg <- Replace with your
path and name of config file of course. (I think you could leave the
folders away as the file resides in the same directory of the program,
but I never trust windows in such cases)
Then save the txt-file and replace it's extension with BAT (if you
can't see the extension you'll have to go to your
windows-explorer->extras->folder options->somewhere...Google if you
don't know and disable the 'hide extensions from known file types' or
whatever it's called in the English version of XP)
e) Drag a shortcut of that BAT-file into your auto start folder
f) Done, if you want to make changes repeat step a-c. Happy gaming and
more overall power (even on desktop)
[a-f works with winxp, i think, but not for win98se]
3. Possible heat problem: I WOULD say no. Me and my friends (one
doesn't even have a fan on his ATI!!!) didn't encounter any problems
but only improvement of performance.
Let me try to explain why (simple words, I'm no technician):
Decreasing the latency does NOT mean INCREASING the response time of
your hardware!
The BUS latency stands for: How much time does a component of your PC
(graphic card, network card, and sound card) have to perform an
operation before another component can! Note that only one component
can use the BUS at one time, then the next, then the next. In other
words: instead of letting your graphic card do 100 operations in 248ms
you set it to a lower number of operations in 32, 64, 128ms. (32 is
minimum and must be a number that
can be divided by 8)
So the problem is while leaving the graphic card latency at 248ms -
which it is mostly set to - that the component has TOO MUCH time and
other important operations (soundcard for example) can not be performed
in time, so the queue list is getting bigger and bigger-> CPU overload.
Experiment a little with the settings and see what gets you best
performance. In my opinion it's mostly the graphic card latency that
hogs the CPU but you may tweak a little more out of it. Depends on
hardware I guess. I have all my components set to 32ms now.
- - - - -
ADDED SOME MORE INFO:
Some of you might wonder why you have the "PCI Latency time" option in
your BIOS if the PCI latency is messed up if you don't use a program
like this one here.
1. Windows overwrites this setting. *Duh*
2. Some manufacturers of graphic cards and (possibly other hardware)
set the latency of their cards to 248ms internally on the card itself
(the programmer of PCIDAWG says that they do it to boost performance
and that they are obviously wrong with that in most cases)
===========================================================================
have you tried adjusting your pci latencies ?
Many ppl with Geforce/ATI video cards have got rid of clicks and pops
by reducing the agp latency. This is easily achieved with ltcycfg.exe
program. Most of these 3D cards hog the pci latency time big time with
as big latency time as 255. Try changing it to 64 or something like
that.
There's a topic about that in UAD forum. Maybe you can get your problem
fixed with this or if not totally fixed, atleast you can improve your
performance, I'm quite sure about that.
============================================================================
====
=
In the meantime, I've been reading allot about something new to me ---
PCI Latency. I've read how changing these setting fixed many
people's woes. For example, some folks were having serious problems
with sound sputtering or video freezing, etc., and were later fixed
when they changed their PCI latency settings for some of their devices.
For those who are not familiar with PCI Latency, it is the amount of
"wait" time PCI is allocated to communicate with any given peripheral.
>From what I understand, a device with a high PCI Latency setting takes
more PCI bus time than another device with a lower setting. Normally,
the PCI Latency Timer is set to 32 cycles. This means the active PCI
device has to complete its transactions within 32 clock cycles or hand
it over to the next PCI device. As you can see, a device, like my video
card (in fact, all my video cards) which has a setting of 248
essentially "hogs" the PCI Bus when compared to the G520 whose
setting is 128. My Soundblaster sound card is set for 64 on the machine
with the G520 and 32 on my other PCs. I'm beginning think that D-Link
is switching the order of the cards to minimize the cards fighting for
PCI bus time in lieu of having you change the PCI Latency setting.
Think about it, the more time a vendors card has access to the PCI Bus,
the less likely that it will cause havoc because it will have the time
needed to do its thing. Once I get my G520, I will play with the PCI
Latency settings and report back what I find.
Anyway, the utility that I found is called LtcyCfg.exe which is a
pretty simple tool to use. It will show the PCI Latency setting of all
your devices and will allow you to change them. I've attached it for
your use. I've used it with no ill affects.
BE WARNED however, that this tool gives the user access to settings
that could potentially cause damage for which I cannot be held
responsible (seeing as I'm just the messenger anyway).
============================================================================
====
=======
It can be the video hogging the PCI bus. This can cause sound cards
problems. Some video card will use 248 PCI latency, while other devices
use 32 & 64. The sound card uses 32. I've used a PCI latency program to
change my video card latency to 64, it was 248. My sound is better & my
video card preforms much better. I've set all my devices to 32 except
for the video card & thats 64. My over all system runs smoother!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
It doesn't help to make these settings is the bios. You need the PCI
latency tool
to make the change.
============================================================================
====
==========
there. more than you might want to Know!
please post reply if LtcyCfg helps your game!!
freestone
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