Chris Thile's "Deceiver" album

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I've been listening to Chris Thile's new album "Deceiver" for the last
week or two, and I suspect that there may be a lot of people here who
would find it worth their attention. I think it's just a great album,
but then I've been a solid Nickel Creek fan for a long time.

Then again, this is certainly no Nickel Creek album. Nor is it anything
like any past Thile solo albums. His past solo albums have been
entirely instrumental, and have generally featured backing from most of
Nashville's best acoustic musicians (the bluegrass and new acoustic
music crowd) and material appropriate to that setting. This new album
takes an entirely different direction.

First of all, it is basically a pop/rock album, at least to the extent
that it can be categorized at all. The songs are quite varied, and are
all Thile originals. In addition to the eight vocal songs, there are
two mandolin instrumentals - Thile describes them as "palate cleansers"
- that break up the intensity of the album somewhat.

Secondly, it is truly a solo album. Chris Thile plays and sings every
part on the album - in some cases, he had to teach himself to play the
instruments before he could finish the work. The liner notes don't
mention the instruments used, but I heard several members of the
mandolin family, guitars (electric and acoustic), piano (electric and
acoustic), bass (electric and acoustic), drums, a complete string
quartet, fiddle and banjo, and probably some others that I can't think
of at the moment. The vocals are intricate and interesting, with
unusual harmonies and timings.

For example, the opening track starts with some acoustic piano and a
rather dry vocal, then shifts to a string quartet and from there over to
an acoustic guitar backing. From there it moves to a full acoustic band
(led by his mandolin), but then quickly switches to full electric rock
band instrumentation, finally dropping back to the opening piano at the
very end. And amazingly enough, it all works!

He did have help with production - that's credited to Chris and Gary
Paczosa. Mastering is by Bob Ludwig.

I can't begin to inventory the influences that I hear, but I certainly
hear late period Beatles and Brian Wilson, plus stuff like Elliot Smith
and Wilco. I know he's been listening to a lot of harder stuff, too,
like Nirvana and Radiohead, but I don't know enough about that material
to pick out any inflence from it. In any event, this CD is certainly
not a "derivative" of anything.

Some of the songs reference other works. For example, the song "Locking
Doors" is based on the film "As Good As It Gets". And the song "Empire
Falls" is based on the book of the same name.

Sugar Hill Records says that he's been working on Deceiver for four
years, which would mean that he started it when he was eighteen.

http://www.sugarhillrecords.com/ca [...] r.cgi?3976

At the moment it's easy to get to hear it. VH1.com has the entire album
available for listening in their "Hear It First" section. Here's a URL
that will get you directly to Deceiver:

http://tinyurl.com/4h7mx

Warning: This URL may be browser-sensitive. I couldn't get it to work
in FireFox - had to go back to Internet Explorer to get it to work.
It'll bring up the Windows Media player in a browser window.

I think a lot of people here will find this to be interesting listening.
I'll be curious to see what people think.

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Jim Gilliland wrote:

>I've been listening to Chris Thile's new album "Deceiver" for the last
>week or two, and I suspect that there may be a lot of people here who
>would find it worth their attention. I think it's just a great album,
>but then I've been a solid Nickel Creek fan for a long time.
>
>Then again, this is certainly no Nickel Creek album. Nor is it anything
>like any past Thile solo albums. His past solo albums have been
>entirely instrumental, and have generally featured backing from most of
>Nashville's best acoustic musicians (the bluegrass and new acoustic
>music crowd) and material appropriate to that setting. This new album
>takes an entirely different direction.
>
>First of all, it is basically a pop/rock album, at least to the extent
>that it can be categorized at all. The songs are quite varied, and are
>all Thile originals. In addition to the eight vocal songs, there are
>two mandolin instrumentals - Thile describes them as "palate cleansers"
>- that break up the intensity of the album somewhat.
>
>Secondly, it is truly a solo album. Chris Thile plays and sings every
>part on the album - in some cases, he had to teach himself to play the
>instruments before he could finish the work. The liner notes don't
>mention the instruments used, but I heard several members of the
>mandolin family, guitars (electric and acoustic), piano (electric and
>acoustic), bass (electric and acoustic), drums, a complete string
>quartet, fiddle and banjo, and probably some others that I can't think
>of at the moment. The vocals are intricate and interesting, with
>unusual harmonies and timings.
>
>For example, the opening track starts with some acoustic piano and a
>rather dry vocal, then shifts to a string quartet and from there over to
>an acoustic guitar backing. From there it moves to a full acoustic band
>(led by his mandolin), but then quickly switches to full electric rock
>band instrumentation, finally dropping back to the opening piano at the
>very end. And amazingly enough, it all works!
>
>He did have help with production - that's credited to Chris and Gary
>Paczosa. Mastering is by Bob Ludwig.
>
>I can't begin to inventory the influences that I hear, but I certainly
>hear late period Beatles and Brian Wilson, plus stuff like Elliot Smith
>and Wilco. I know he's been listening to a lot of harder stuff, too,
>like Nirvana and Radiohead, but I don't know enough about that material
>to pick out any inflence from it. In any event, this CD is certainly
>not a "derivative" of anything.
>
>Some of the songs reference other works. For example, the song "Locking
>Doors" is based on the film "As Good As It Gets". And the song "Empire
>Falls" is based on the book of the same name.
>
>Sugar Hill Records says that he's been working on Deceiver for four
>years, which would mean that he started it when he was eighteen.
>
>http://www.sugarhillrecords.com/catalog/pagemaker.cgi?3976
>
>At the moment it's easy to get to hear it. VH1.com has the entire album
>available for listening in their "Hear It First" section. Here's a URL
>that will get you directly to Deceiver:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/4h7mx
>
>Warning: This URL may be browser-sensitive. I couldn't get it to work
>in FireFox - had to go back to Internet Explorer to get it to work.
>It'll bring up the Windows Media player in a browser window.
>
>I think a lot of people here will find this to be interesting listening.
> I'll be curious to see what people think.
>

Well it ain't no Kenney Chesney - great mando player no doubt. It wouldn't have
hurt my feelings if he had hired a drummer but he's gifted no doubt.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Gilliland wrote:

>>>I've been listening to Chris Thile's new album "Deceiver" for the last
>>>week or two....
>>>
>>>Sugar Hill Records says that he's been working on Deceiver for four
>>>years, which would mean that he started it when he was eighteen.
>>>
>>>http://www.sugarhillrecords.com/catalog/pagemaker.cgi?3976
>>>
>>>Here's a URL that will get you directly to Deceiver:
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/4h7mx
>>>
>>>Warning: This URL may be browser-sensitive. I couldn't get it to work
>>>in FireFox - had to go back to Internet Explorer to get it to work.
>>>It'll bring up the Windows Media player in a browser window.
>>>
>>> I'll be curious to see what people think.
>>
>>
>> Well it ain't no Kenney Chesney - great mando player no doubt.
>
>That's certainly true enough - on both counts. I can't imagine anyone
>calling this "country". But I wonder whether or not he'll succeed in
>breaking free of that bluegrass image - he's clearly trying to make his
>mark in the pop world.

Sean Watkins' solo album was kind of popped out in an acoustic kind of way. I
don't know how well it did. I have it, it's okay. So far I prefer the sum of
the parts - Nickel Creek, but Thile is world class as a mando player either
way.




Maybe he just needs the right video <g>.
>
>> It wouldn't have
>> hurt my feelings if he had hired a drummer but he's gifted no doubt.
>
>Both interesting points. He's still quite young, and that lack of
>musical maturity may be the reason he felt so strongly about doing it
>all himself, and also why he felt he needed to make it something of a
>break from what he's done with Nickel Creek. But he's gifted enough to
>pull it off pretty well - at least I don't any obvious instances where
>the album suffers from a weak instrumental performance. Some of the
>playing isn't virtuoso by any means, but he seems to have accomplished
>what he set out to.
>
>He is a great mando player, but this record isn't much of a showcase for
>that - even the two instrumentals aren't particularly flashy. I think
>I'm most impressed by the arrangements - the dynamics, the way he moves
>from instrument to instrument, the mix of acoustic and electric, the
>hints of baroque and jazz, the unusual harmonies, and so on.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Gilliland wrote:

>Mondoslug1 wrote:
>>
>> Sean Watkins' solo album was kind of popped out in an acoustic kind of way.
>I
>> don't know how well it did. I have it, it's okay.
>
>He has a new one, too, due out in early 2005. I've got a couple of cuts
>from it on an early promo disc, and it's pretty similar to what's come
>before.
>
> > So far I prefer the sum of the parts - Nickel Creek....
>
>I agree. They're going into the studio for their next album in early
>November, so somewhere in the second half of next year (I'm guessing)
>we'll get the next Nickel Creek CD.
>
>Did you get to see the MAS tour? That was a pretty fun show!
>

I've never seen them live. I actually tried to hire Chris Thile for a couple of
sessions but had to jump through too many hoops just to get a number(honestly I
didn't pursue it real hard) - ended up with Stuart Duncan & Aubrey Haynie - so
that worked out but it would have been interesting.

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Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message news:<JY2dnSJ9je6e6-_cRVn-iQ@adelphia.com>...
> Mondoslug1 wrote:
> That's certainly true enough - on both counts. I can't imagine anyone
> calling this "country". But I wonder whether or not he'll succeed in
> breaking free of that bluegrass image - he's clearly trying to make his
> mark in the pop world. Maybe he just needs the right video <g>.

Not to be negative or cynical but from a musical standpoint this CD
isn't going to do him any favors in the pop music world. I doubt
great visuals can compensate for the lack of catchy music as
considered by the pop music industry, as well. Nothing on the CD
really says I'm a hit single, give me a spot on the charts. If I'm
wrong then so be it, but I have a gut feeling I'm not. I do think
this CD may allow him to break out of his bluegrass roots to some
extent, however, just not enough to afford him a spot on the pop
charts.

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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:39:13 -0400, Jim Gilliland wrote
(in article <JY2dnSJ9je6e6-_cRVn-iQ@adelphia.com> ):

>
> He is a great mando player, but this record isn't much of a showcase for
> that - even the two instrumentals aren't particularly flashy. I think
> I'm most impressed by the arrangements - the dynamics, the way he moves
> from instrument to instrument, the mix of acoustic and electric, the
> hints of baroque and jazz, the unusual harmonies, and so on.

Didn't paul McCartney play everything on his first LP, or was that Emmit
Rhodes?

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Jim,

I was at the MAS show in Chicago. I loved it. I would echo everything
you said, and just add that I enjoyed it as much as any show in a long
while.

Dean

Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message news:<dpCdnZIsK4LsIO_cRVn-vQ@adelphia.com>...
> Mondoslug1 wrote:
> >
> > I've never seen them live. I actually tried to hire Chris Thile for a couple of
> > sessions but had to jump through too many hoops just to get a number(honestly I
> > didn't pursue it real hard) - ended up with Stuart Duncan & Aubrey Haynie - so
> > that worked out but it would have been interesting.
>
> Well, you certainly selected some quality alternates!
>
> The MAS tour was interesting - there were fans in the crowd for Nickel
> Creek, fans for John Paul Jones, and fans for Toad's Glen Philips. You
> could usually tell which were which by their ages (though not always -
> I'd have probably been pegged as a Led Zep fan, while nothing could be
> further from the truth). But the show let all of them show their stuff,
> and mix it up pretty well. Thile did a Bach Partita, Glen Philips sang
> "Gallows Pole", Nickel Creek backed up Glen on the old Toad hit "All I
> Want", John Paul Jones played some acoustic mandolin stuff. It was a
> lot of fun. I'm hoping that they put together a live CD from that tour,
> since they'll not likely get that group together again.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You know, from the impression he gives on stage and the musical
choices he makes, I doubt Chris Thile could really care less if this
album does him any favors in the pop world. I get the impression he
makes music simply because he has to, and not for any reasons related
to financial gain or stardom. In my opinion, the fact that this album
is so diverse is simply due to the fact that he is growing so fast
musically that he needed to express it. It's obvious he's influenced
by everything from Bach to Radiohead, and everything in-between
including bluegrass, Irish music, country, jazz, and classical.

I've seen this kid (early 20's now) live four times, and each time I
felt as though his mind is working so quickly that music is literally
exploding from him. I've never seen a musician play so effortlessly
and still give the impression he's flying.

I took a psychiatrist friend of mine to see Mutual Admiration Society
in Chicago. She was unfamiliar with Nickel Creek or any of the band
except John Paul Jones. As we were leaving she said about Thile "I
feel like I was watching a genius." That's how I felt too.



jacyscott@hotmail.com (r3ality) wrote in message news:<cab683e9.0410171519.30a592e2@posting.google.com>...
> Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message news:<JY2dnSJ9je6e6-_cRVn-iQ@adelphia.com>...
> > Mondoslug1 wrote:
> > That's certainly true enough - on both counts. I can't imagine anyone
> > calling this "country". But I wonder whether or not he'll succeed in
> > breaking free of that bluegrass image - he's clearly trying to make his
> > mark in the pop world. Maybe he just needs the right video <g>.
>
> Not to be negative or cynical but from a musical standpoint this CD
> isn't going to do him any favors in the pop music world. I doubt
> great visuals can compensate for the lack of catchy music as
> considered by the pop music industry, as well. Nothing on the CD
> really says I'm a hit single, give me a spot on the charts. If I'm
> wrong then so be it, but I have a gut feeling I'm not. I do think
> this CD may allow him to break out of his bluegrass roots to some
> extent, however, just not enough to afford him a spot on the pop
> charts.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Jim,

The choice of producers is very, very interesting indeed. I thought
Alison's production was impeccable on both of the first two albums.
But given the direction Chris has moved with his latest record and the
direction Sean's latest releast took, perhaps we shouldn't be so
surprised. It was obvious that the Nickel Creek members enjoyed having
a rock drummer and bass player for the Mutual Admiration Society tour.
(There was even a between-song comment about how they had never rocked
so much.) So the choice of producers, while odd in some ways, is
probably consistent with the direction they seem to be heading. Chris
and Sean obviously listen to current rock music (Radiohead, Toad,
etc.). So they might be headed more that direction. How they will
reconcile that with what Nickel Creek has been on the first two albums
remains to be seen. At the very least it will be interesting.

I'm going to see them again Friday night in Dekalb, IL with Howie Day.
It should be interesting. I wonder if they'll try out any tunes
destined for the upcoming album. Have you seen them since the MAS
tour?

Dean


Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message news:<lbCdnWcP-fQS1ODcRVn-ow@adelphia.com>...
> Dean Richard wrote:
> > You know, from the impression he gives on stage and the musical
> > choices he makes, I doubt Chris Thile could really care less if this
> > album does him any favors in the pop world.
>
> I agree with much of what you say below, yet I still think that Thile
> has ambitions toward making his mark in the pop music world. I'm not
> sure that he intends to make "hit" records, but I definitely think that
> he intends to develop a reputation that goes well beyond anything that
> could be remotely labeled "folk". And some recent news (see below)
> suggests that pop hit records are a distinct possibility.
>
> > I get the impression he
> > makes music simply because he has to, and not for any reasons related
> > to financial gain or stardom. In my opinion, the fact that this album
> > is so diverse is simply due to the fact that he is growing so fast
> > musically that he needed to express it. It's obvious he's influenced
> > by everything from Bach to Radiohead, and everything in-between
> > including bluegrass, Irish music, country, jazz, and classical.
> >
> > I've seen this kid (early 20's now) live four times, and each time I
> > felt as though his mind is working so quickly that music is literally
> > exploding from him. I've never seen a musician play so effortlessly
> > and still give the impression he's flying.
> >
> > I took a psychiatrist friend of mine to see Mutual Admiration Society
> > in Chicago. She was unfamiliar with Nickel Creek or any of the band
> > except John Paul Jones. As we were leaving she said about Thile "I
> > feel like I was watching a genius." That's how I felt too.
>
> I've seen him more times than I can count, and I've always felt that way
> - even back when he was a twelve year old mandolin prodigy playing
> Merlefest. It's been quite interesting watching him develop his talent.
> His skills as a mandolinist have been there forever, but his singing,
> songwriting, and arranging skills have developed over the last decade as
> he's allowed himself to assimilate more and more musical styles and genres.
>
> I just learned this week that the next Nickel Creek album is being
> produced by Eric Valentine. The prior two albums were produced by
> Alison Krauss, so that's a pretty big change. Valentine's recent work
> includes mostly stuff that my kids listen to - Good Charlotte, Third Eye
> Blind, Smash Mouth, and Queens of the Stone Age. Selecting Valentine as
> a producer certainly suggests that Nickel Creek intends to head strongly
> in a pop direction with their next CD (due out sometime in 2005, perhaps
> summer).