what do you assign to channel 1 etc.?

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In article <10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com> scrednoapame@hotmail.com writes:

> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
> or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
> a universal accepted norm?

There's no universally accepted norm, but people get used to their
favorite layouts, so if you're setting up for someone else to mix,
their preferences might be different from yours.

Almost all of the live sound work that I do is festivals where I don't
always know the group and rarely have a good idea of what they'll do
until the set is nearly over. So I have some sense of relating the
board to what's happening on stage, I tend to group vocals together in
a sensible order, then start with the instruments that change,
dedicating a reasonable number of channels to things that I'll be
using throughout the day.

For example (assming the board is big enough) I'll decide what the
maximum number of vocal mics I'll need will be and if there's a little
"headroom" allow for a couple more. If I think I won't have any more
than six vocals in a group I'll dedicate channels 1-8 for vocals. I'll
set them up left to right across the stage for the vocalists (who, in
the festival scene, usually also play instruments) with a couple of
exceptions. If the drummer is (as typical) in the middle, I'll put his
mic last so the four up-front players/singers will be on four
consecutively numbered channels.

I tend to put drums near the end since they might not be used much of
the time (these are folk festivals) and dedicate channels to them.
I'll use a mic for the kick, one for the snare, and one or two
overheads. No need to mic all the toms in this sort of music and this
sort of situation. Since a lot of bass players use pickups, I'll try
to dedicate a channel to a bass direct box, and typically put that
just to the left of the kick drum channel.

Oh, and the MC's mic (and I always try to have a dedicated one) is
always the last channel, so it's easy to grab without thinking too
hard.

Everything else goes left-to-right across the stage, starting with the
next channel following the vocal set. So a solo singer with a guitar
would be on channels 1 and 9 on my preferred festival setup.

This is THE RULE. If you don't follow it, you'll be banished to mixing
polka bands - two weeks for the first offense.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>scrednoapame@hotmail.com writes:
>
>Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
>or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
>a universal accepted norm?

I come from the old tape school where tracks 1 and 16 (or 24) were the most
likely to wind up with flutter or high frequency loss, so you put the
instruments with mostly bottom and short notes on the outside tracks. I start
with kick on 1. Al Schmitt starts with bass on 1. Hard habit to break.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just about everyone here in the UK starts like this:

1. Kick
2. Snare
3. Hi Hats
4. Tom L
5. Tom R
6. Floor
7. Overhead (L)
(8. Overhead R)


After that you do what you want. Usually bass, followed by guitars, then
vocals.

I think the reasoning behind it is that any stage hand can mic up a drum kit
pretty quick without needing channel lists or long consultations.
Especially important at festivals, gigs with loads of bands and no sound
check etc.






"reqluq" <scrednoapame@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare
2
> or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is
there
> a universal accepted norm?
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> 1. Kick
> 2. Snare
> 3. Hi Hats
> 4. Tom L
> 5. Tom R
> 6. Floor
> 7. Overhead (L)
> (8. Overhead R)
>
>
> After that you do what you want. Usually bass, followed by guitars, then
> vocals.
>
> I think the reasoning behind it is that any stage hand can mic up a drum
> kit
> pretty quick without needing channel lists or long consultations.
> Especially important at festivals, gigs with loads of bands and no sound
> check etc.
>

Yes, thats the setup 9 out of 10 times out in the field from my experience.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

reqluq wrote:

> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare
> 2 or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is
> there a universal accepted norm?

I'd say have the most important tracks in front of you, esp. those subject
to changes or feedback, so that you can make quick changes when needed. I
don't think there's a norm other than that.

I tend to have the drums first, the bass, the vocals and then the other
instruments (guitar etc) on the last tracks.

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"Ced" <lauryced_no-spmam@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:cl2fhi$7mb$1@news.tiscali.fr...
> I'd say have the most important tracks in front of you, esp. those subject
> to changes or feedback, so that you can make quick changes when needed. I
> don't think there's a norm other than that.
> I tend to have the drums first, the bass, the vocals and then the other
> instruments (guitar etc) on the last tracks.

wow same thing the mixer for the cuban band said when they passed through
her to do a gig.they used my sound system.but my point was that the vocals
were the most important so the main vocalshhould be on 1 and the backups on
2 3 4 ect,then piano and bass and drums over to the right,because
normally they don't require as much attention as the vocals.
I guess my custom when I play with my band and mix at the same time works
better like that for me.I keep going with the right hand on keyboards and
adjust with the left.(mixer in front of me on top tier of keyboard stand)

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In article <10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com>,
reqluq <scrednoapame@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
>or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
>a universal accepted norm?

I tend to like to have the mikes on stage from left to right set up on the
console from left to right also.

Other folks like to group the vocals to the left and the instruments to the
right.

Sometimes if you're also recording, you'll be in a situation where the first
16 channels on the board go to the recording deck, but the rest of them don't,
and this affects how you lay things out.

I learned to mix on a console that had sweepable EQ on the first four channels,
fixed EQ on the next two, and no EQ on the rest of the board (because the
studio owner was cheap and didn't buy the EQ modules). So this radically
changed the way I'd lay tracks out.

There isn't any standard, although it would be nice if there were, especially
on festival gigs where you may have a dozen bands using the same setup, with
different people mixing each of them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com> scrednoapame@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
> > or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
> > a universal accepted norm?
>
> There's no universally accepted norm, but people get used to their
> favorite layouts, so if you're setting up for someone else to mix,
> their preferences might be different from yours.
>
> Almost all of the live sound work that I do is festivals where I don't
> always know the group and rarely have a good idea of what they'll do
> until the set is nearly over. So I have some sense of relating the
> board to what's happening on stage, I tend to group vocals together in
> a sensible order, then start with the instruments that change,
> dedicating a reasonable number of channels to things that I'll be
> using throughout the day.
>
> For example (assming the board is big enough) I'll decide what the
> maximum number of vocal mics I'll need will be and if there's a little
> "headroom" allow for a couple more. If I think I won't have any more
> than six vocals in a group I'll dedicate channels 1-8 for vocals. I'll
> set them up left to right across the stage for the vocalists (who, in
> the festival scene, usually also play instruments) with a couple of
> exceptions. If the drummer is (as typical) in the middle, I'll put his
> mic last so the four up-front players/singers will be on four
> consecutively numbered channels.
>
> I tend to put drums near the end since they might not be used much of
> the time (these are folk festivals) and dedicate channels to them.
> I'll use a mic for the kick, one for the snare, and one or two
> overheads. No need to mic all the toms in this sort of music and this
> sort of situation. Since a lot of bass players use pickups, I'll try
> to dedicate a channel to a bass direct box, and typically put that
> just to the left of the kick drum channel.
>
> Oh, and the MC's mic (and I always try to have a dedicated one) is
> always the last channel, so it's easy to grab without thinking too
> hard.
>
> Everything else goes left-to-right across the stage, starting with the
> next channel following the vocal set. So a solo singer with a guitar
> would be on channels 1 and 9 on my preferred festival setup.

Same here. I do mostly festivals and corporate hotel gigs, so my
setups are usually fairly tiny in comparison. left to right matches
left to right on stage. voice of ghod is the last channel on the mixer,
and the wireless mics in-between. Everything gets labeled clearly
so that random AV guy can walk in and probably do the right thing.

--Dale

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"reqluq" <scrednoapame@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com
> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1
> snare 2 or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as
> you go?is there a universal accepted norm?

Since the musicians I mix tend to extend across the stage in what can be
considered a single row, I tend to number the mics across the stage, from
left to right.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I'd say have the most important tracks in front of you, esp. those subject
>> to changes or feedback, so that you can make quick changes when needed. I
>> don't think there's a norm other than that.
>> I tend to have the drums first, the bass, the vocals and then the other
>> instruments (guitar etc) on the last tracks.
>
>wow same thing the mixer for the cuban band said when they passed through
>her to do a gig.they used my sound system.but my point was that the vocals
>were the most important so the main vocalshhould be on 1 and the backups on
>2 3 4 ect,then piano and bass and drums over to the right,because
>normally they don't require as much attention as the vocals.

I want instruments that need attention and effects returns close together if
possible. On a 48-56 channel board with the master section in the middle..this
calls for some Stretch Armstrong action.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

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On 2004-10-19 mrivers@d-and-d.com said:
>>vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there a
>universal accepted norm? There's no universally accepted norm, but
>people get used to their favorite layouts, so if you're setting up
>for someone else to mix, their preferences might be different from
>yours. Almost all of the live sound work that I do is festivals
>where I don't always know the group and rarely have a good idea of
>what they'll do until the set is nearly over. So I have some sense
>of relating the board to what's happening on stage, I tend to group
>vocals together in a sensible order, then start with the
>instruments that change, dedicating a reasonable number of channels
>to things that I'll be using throughout the day.
>For example (assming the board is big enough) I'll decide what the
>maximum number of vocal mics I'll need will be and if there's a
>little "headroom" allow for a couple more. If I think I won't have
>any more than six vocals in a group I'll dedicate channels 1-8 for
>vocals. I'll set them up left to right across the stage for the
>vocalists (who, in the festival scene, usually also play
>instruments) with a couple of exceptions. If the drummer is (as
>typical) in the middle, I'll put his mic last so the four up-front
>players/singers will be on four consecutively numbered channels.
<snip>
>and the MC's mic (and I always try to have a dedicated one) is
>always the last channel, so it's easy to grab without thinking too
>hard.
>Everything else goes left-to-right across the stage, starting with
>the next channel following the vocal set. So a solo singer with a
>guitar would be on channels 1 and 9 on my preferred festival setup.
Mine as well. I've worked the other way with vocals all grouped near
the master section where it seemed handy to the folks that used the
board. Usually my last channel next to the master section is a
talkback for my position if the board doesn't provide adedicated
talkback circuit.
ONe school of thought is to put often used channels such as vocals
over near the master section, works well if you use aux returns for
effects returns and your acts have a lot of effects cues. I like to
return effects through channels if possible.
I use vocal mics according to position as MIke does, stage right
being my leftmost channel.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

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Perhaps useful -

This is how I always assign things in the studio. Saves a TON of time
not having to learn random assignments. I try to have other tracking
engineers (in my studio) use the same assignments for work I will have
to mix.

I have far too much work to do in too little time to screw around with
learning 8 songs' assignments for rough mixes.

If a channel is not used, it is open for other things, I don't move
the remaining tracks over.

The habit comes from using edge tracks on an MCI 16 track

1 Kick
2 Snare
3 hi hat
4 tom 1
5 tom 2
6 tom 2
7 overhead L
8 overhead R
9 Keyboard
10 Keyboard
11 Guitar 1
12 Guitar 2
13 Vox 1
14 BV
15 acoustic guitar
16 Bass

17-32 - Whatever . . .

This is basic tracking, and I try to keep the scratch tracks until the
bitter end, so subsequent dubs are done on 17 on up.

Whatever isn't being used in 1-16 gets the under snare out of phase
mike.

I keep stereo pairs odd/even



Kurt Riemann

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reqluq wrote:

> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
> or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
> a universal accepted norm?

If I have matrix's and sub-groups, I tend to do vox first and then drums, bass,
keyboards, geetars, and then odd instruments. If it's a lot of groups on stage
( like on a turntable setup) I tend to assign the channels the way the stage
looks from left to right.


--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:zsmdnWQgPaYZ8ejcRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> "reqluq" <scrednoapame@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com
> > Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1
> > snare 2 or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as
> > you go?is there a universal accepted norm?
>
> Since the musicians I mix tend to extend across the stage in what can be
> considered a single row, I tend to number the mics across the stage, from
> left to right.

Ditto. When dealing with a vocalist/instrumentalist the vocal mic always
comes first. That's for mnemonic purposes: we had voices before we had
instruments.

Peace,
Paul

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In article <iondd.13523$OD2.11665@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> pstamlerhell@pobox.com writes:

> > Since the musicians I mix tend to extend across the stage in what can be
> > considered a single row, I tend to number the mics across the stage, from
> > left to right.
>
> Ditto. When dealing with a vocalist/instrumentalist the vocal mic always
> comes first. That's for mnemonic purposes: we had voices before we had
> instruments.

We each have our own ways of getting confused, and I tend to get
confused with that layout. The only time I didn't was when we set up a
vocal, instrument mic, and instrument DI channel for each position and
just left the unused ones unused. But when you have a mix of singers
who play, players who don't sing, and players who play and sing into
the same mic (for reasons - theirs or ours) like fiddlers or flute
players. And instrumentalists who need more than one mic and may or
may not sing, and sometimes play into a vocal mic.

And then there's the well planned setup where the guitar player grabs
the instrument mic from the adjacent stage position, pulls it up to
his mouth (because you were told, perhaps by the player himself, that
he was going to sing or talk).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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"reqluq" <scrednoapame@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<10n9fe5rd9dse5e@corp.supernews.com>...
> Hi when doing live sound how do you setup the mixer?kick on slider 1 snare 2
> or do you put the vocals on one then add the other stuff as you go?is there
> a universal accepted norm?

My only "rule" is that the main stereo pair go on ch1 and ch2. After
that, the spot mics are usually grouped according to what mic preamp
they are connected to. (for no important reason)

steve

lex125@pacbell.net
www.lexington125.com