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thanks for musical pitch answers; new quick question

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Anonymous
October 22, 2004 2:06:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks, guys and gals for the numerous responses to my previous question
about musical instruments and pitches. I'm pretty convinced now that I need
to stick with the electric guitar and perhaps use a slide. I think I need
to get a hold of an electric bass guitar too for deeper sounds. I'm not
sure if there is such a device, but during my last experiments with the
electric guitar, I found that if I rapidly plucked the string and then
increased the tension, I could get the closest tone I was looking for. If
there was a small device that could keep plucking the string very rapidly
(say at 10 plucks/ sec), I might be able to sustain tones and increase/
decrease pitch by string tension. I was thinking of using a small AC motor
with a gear and holding the gear in such a way as to continually pluck the
string. Of course, I couldn't get too close to the pickups. Any thoughts?

I'm tempted to post a sample of the sound I am looking for and may soon so
folks can listen.

Thanks again for your response,
Simon
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 2:16:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Get an eBow, it will keep a string vibrating until its battery wears out.

http://www.e-bow.com/
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 2:16:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article Xns95899ACC968D3faultline1989yahooco@199.45.49.11, Digital Larry
at faultline1989SPAMMIT@yahoo.com wrote on 10/21/04 3:16 PM:

> Get an eBow, it will keep a string vibrating until its battery wears out.
>
> http://www.e-bow.com/

Bet you can find an ebow on ebay.

Carlos
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Anonymous
October 22, 2004 2:42:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Simon Customer wrote:

> Thanks, guys and gals for the numerous responses to my previous question
> about musical instruments and pitches. I'm pretty convinced now that I need
> to stick with the electric guitar and perhaps use a slide. I think I need
> to get a hold of an electric bass guitar too for deeper sounds. I'm not
> sure if there is such a device, but during my last experiments with the
> electric guitar, I found that if I rapidly plucked the string and then
> increased the tension, I could get the closest tone I was looking for. If
> there was a small device that could keep plucking the string very rapidly
> (say at 10 plucks/ sec), I might be able to sustain tones and increase/
> decrease pitch by string tension. I was thinking of using a small AC motor
> with a gear and holding the gear in such a way as to continually pluck the
> string. Of course, I couldn't get too close to the pickups. Any thoughts?

Thoughts? Yes: you are trying to re-invent the EBow, although you
haven't yet stumbled on the idea of doing it with magnetic fields
instead of mechanically. http://www.ebow.com/

Another thing that might help you is to get a compressor and compress
the heck out of the signal coming from the guitar. This gives you
more sustain, which might mean you could get by plucking the string
much less frequently.

Also, you may not need to go with a bass guitar. If you are not
plucking the strings (if using an EBow or relying on a compressor
to give you large amounts of sustain), you can usually tune a string
down pretty low. The only problem really is that because of the
reduced tension, they get very wobbly and it's hard not to press
to hard on the frets and keep in tune. But if you are using a slide
and not pressing hard on the string anyway (which you can't really
do in the first place with a slide), you may find you can tune the
string down an octave or so without too much ill effect.

Another totally different idea is to ditch the slide altogether
and just change the pitch by tuning the string (i.e. by turning
the knob on the head of the guitar). You aren't looking for
exact pitches anyway, probably, so why not?

- Logan
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 3:05:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carlos Alden wrote:

> Digital Larry wrote

> > Get an eBow, it will keep a string vibrating until its battery wears out.

> > http://www.e-bow.com/

> Bet you can find an ebow on ebay.

Ebentually.

--
ha
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 7:36:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RXWdd.34497$rY1.24099@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Simon Customer wrote:
>
> > Thanks, guys and gals for the numerous responses to my previous question
> > about musical instruments and pitches. I'm pretty convinced now that I
need
> > to stick with the electric guitar and perhaps use a slide. I think I
need
> > to get a hold of an electric bass guitar too for deeper sounds. I'm not
> > sure if there is such a device, but during my last experiments with the
> > electric guitar, I found that if I rapidly plucked the string and then
> > increased the tension, I could get the closest tone I was looking for.
If
> > there was a small device that could keep plucking the string very
rapidly
> > (say at 10 plucks/ sec), I might be able to sustain tones and increase/
> > decrease pitch by string tension. I was thinking of using a small AC
motor
> > with a gear and holding the gear in such a way as to continually pluck
the
> > string. Of course, I couldn't get too close to the pickups. Any
thoughts?
>
> Thoughts? Yes: you are trying to re-invent the EBow, although you
> haven't yet stumbled on the idea of doing it with magnetic fields
> instead of mechanically. http://www.ebow.com/

This is a fascinating device and I was able to pick one up at Sam Ash this
evening. I guess this device works magnetically then. If so, I wonder how
much different this entire principle is from the old Hammond tone wheel
organs?

Simon


> Another thing that might help you is to get a compressor and compress
> the heck out of the signal coming from the guitar. This gives you
> more sustain, which might mean you could get by plucking the string
> much less frequently.
>
> Also, you may not need to go with a bass guitar. If you are not
> plucking the strings (if using an EBow or relying on a compressor
> to give you large amounts of sustain), you can usually tune a string
> down pretty low. The only problem really is that because of the
> reduced tension, they get very wobbly and it's hard not to press
> to hard on the frets and keep in tune. But if you are using a slide
> and not pressing hard on the string anyway (which you can't really
> do in the first place with a slide), you may find you can tune the
> string down an octave or so without too much ill effect.
>
> Another totally different idea is to ditch the slide altogether
> and just change the pitch by tuning the string (i.e. by turning
> the knob on the head of the guitar). You aren't looking for
> exact pitches anyway, probably, so why not?
>
> - Logan
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 7:39:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Digital Larry" <faultline1989SPAMMIT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95899ACC968D3faultline1989yahooco@199.45.49.11...
> Get an eBow, it will keep a string vibrating until its battery wears out.
>
> http://www.e-bow.com/

Thanks for this valuable tip, Larry. I was able to pick one up tonight at
Sam Ash after first testing it. Very interesting device and I had no idea
they had this for guitars. As I mentioned to someone else, the principles
involved sort of remind me of the old Hammond tone wheel organs. One thing
I'm wondering now is whether the device can be used on other types of
instrumental strings as well?

Simon
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 7:54:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Simon Customer wrote:

> One thing I'm wondering now is whether the device can be used on other
> types of instrumental strings as well?

Of course it can. Use your imagination.

--
ha
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 7:54:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Simon Customer wrote:

> If so, I wonder how much different this entire principle is from the old
> Hammond tone wheel organs?

How do you think the tone wheel organs work? Are they full of strings?

--
ha
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 8:21:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Simon Customer" <sx@dobee.net> wrote in
news:Jh%dd.4116$5i5.2026@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> One thing I'm wondering now is whether the
> device can be used on other types of instrumental strings as well?

Long as it uses magnetic pickups I'd say yes.
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 10:26:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Simon Customer wrote:

> "Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:RXWdd.34497$rY1.24099@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>Thoughts? Yes: you are trying to re-invent the EBow, although you
>>haven't yet stumbled on the idea of doing it with magnetic fields
>>instead of mechanically. http://www.ebow.com/
>
>
> This is a fascinating device and I was able to pick one up at Sam Ash this
> evening. I guess this device works magnetically then. If so, I wonder how
> much different this entire principle is from the old Hammond tone wheel
> organs?

I have until now been unfamiliar with how tone wheels work, and so I
looked it up, and it seems like tone wheels rotate at a fixed speed.
However, the EBow seems to do something more complex. I'm not sure
how it works exactly, but somehow the EBow seems to sustain whatever
frequency the string naturally wants to resonate at, even if that
frequency changes (such as by fretting and changing the length of
the string). So it would appear that there is a major difference:
on a Hammond, the tone wheels (via a fixed-speed motor and some
gear ratios) are the sole source of the frequency, and everything
else is "slaved" to them. Whereas, with the EBow, the string has
a natural resonant frequency, and somehow the EBow picks up on this
resonant frequency and tunes itself so that it is in sync with that,
so with the EBow it's a two-way street instead of a one-way street.

Actually, I could be wrong about the EBow: one way for it to do
what it does would be to simply generate a spike of magnetic flux
periodically, like maybe 10 to 30 times a second. You wouldn't be
in sync with the string, but you would be out of sync enough
that you'd probably cause the string to resonate anyway, just as
plucking the string with a pick doesn't have to actually be in
sync with the resonant frequency of the string. But there would
probably be better results by somehow picking up the resonant
frequency of the string and locking to it. (Maybe by responding
to the rising and falling edges of the wave or something?)

Hmm, sounds like I have more question than answers...

- Logan
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 11:17:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BD9D8BD1.29936%calden3@msn.com> calden3@msn.com writes:

> Bet you can find an ebow on ebay.

That reminds me of a country comedy recitation involving Cousin Easu, a
bucksaw and a sawbuck.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
October 22, 2004 3:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:26:51 +0000, Logan Shaw wrote:


> Actually, I could be wrong about the EBow: one way for it to do what it
> does would be to simply generate a spike of magnetic flux periodically,
> like maybe 10 to 30 times a second. You wouldn't be in sync with the
> string, but you would be out of sync enough that you'd probably cause
> the string to resonate anyway, just as plucking the string with a pick
> doesn't have to actually be in sync with the resonant frequency of the
> string. But there would probably be better results by somehow picking
> up the resonant frequency of the string and locking to it. (Maybe by
> responding to the rising and falling edges of the wave or something?)

Have a look at the ebow patent. It's simpler than you think.
It's a pickup, and amplifier, and another coil to put the signal back into
the string. It's essentially electronic feedback.
I have one with two positions, one of which makes the makes the string
more likely to jump to a higher harmonic, so I think it either distorts or
high passes the feedback signal in that setting.

>
> Hmm, sounds like I have more question than answers...
>
> - Logan
!