Memory Organization

[Vince604]

I'm looking for a stick of 512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM from Samsung. However they have a few modules to pick from and I'm not sure which one to get and what memory organization would be the best to go with.

The memory organization would be:
128Mx4
32Mx16
64Mx8
Is there any differences between the amount of chips on the PCB?

Thanks

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. It's always best to go with the one stick. If not one then 2 and so on down the line. What else can you do?. It's simple logic. Honestly, one stick. I don't know why you havn't been replied to. I'm doing it just to knock off your 0. Plus, I'm right about the one stick. If I understood the question correctly.

RCH

 

[Vince604]

thanks for the reply. Well yes I understand that one stick of ram will keep the cas latency down. However I recently saw a small article saying that Asus will be releasing it's new Dual Channel DDR board sometime in the middle of November so I'm changing direction and heading for two sticks of Samsung PC2700 DDR-SDRAM.

What my real question is which module to pick? Some sticks of ram have more chips than the other and other sticks of ram have less chips on them. What is the difference between the amount of chips on a PCB for memeory?

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. The extra chip on a memory pcb means there is error correction code built in. It's an extra 8 bits used to perform error checking. The ones without ECC will be described like 64megX64 and the ones with 64megX72. You see the 72 is 8 more than 64 indicating 8 more bits, so they need an extra chip for that. There's another guy in the forum looking for Samsung PC2700 512MB mem TCB3. If your looking for TCB3 you might have a hard time finding it. I don't know if he ever did. I searched for an hour(not that long I relize) and didn't find any. I saw it was out of stock, N/A actually. That's the situation he ran into. I don't understand the need for Samsung memory when there are companies like crucial.com around. You're the third person today I've noticed who wants Samsung. I'm no memory expert, but I'm curious as to why a person has to go with original equipment so to speak.
Oh yes, one more thing. Hardly anybody goes with memory with error checking anymore. They buy what is called non-parity memory. Memory is made so well nowadays there's not the problems there were before, which is incredible considering the blistering speeds. It's also cheaper in price.

RCH

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by fastingsetiman on 10/29/02 10:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Vince604]

Hi again. Okay I understand the extra chip is for ECC. But look at this link for Samsung. <A HREF="http://www.samsungelectronics.com/semiconductors/search/datasheet.jsp?family=511" target="_new">http://www.samsungelectronics.com/semiconductors/search/datasheet.jsp?family=511</A>
And look under organization.. It has 128Mx4, 32Mx16, and 64Mx8. What's the difference when they will all equal 512M?

TCB3? Sorry I'm not sure what that is..

Well Samsung is the semiconductor company that are the ones producing the chips for other companies to be placed on their own PCB. However I'm pretty sure Samsung also do have their own line of memory on their own PCB which I think could/should be far more optimized than other companies.
I've seen a couple of reviews where Samsung memory that was rated at CL3 could easily do CL2 and was one of the best overclockers.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. The 128MX4 is a single sided chip with 4 ICs(chips),5 counting the one for parity or ECC. The 4 chips with 128MB each @16bits=64bits+ the 5th chip @ 8bits=72bits.
The 64MX8 is a single sided chip with 8 ICs, 9 with ECC. Each of the 8 chips has 64MB @8Bits + the 9th chip with 8bits=72bits.
The 32MX16 is a double sided chip with 16 ICs, 18 with ECC. Each of the chips has 32MB @4bits + the 17th & 18th chips with 2(4bits)=72bits.

The TCB3 is just a package as they call it. Doesn't pertain to your memory.

I'm sure you can set any well made memory to the fastest timings your mobo will allow, but that doesn't mean your system is going to be stable and boot up for you, or not hang at inopurtune moments, freeze, or crashamongo. I believe in OCing, don't get me wrong. I tried it once and luckily my mobo had a failsafe for overclockers when the PC wouldn't boot up because I went to far and didn't fry anything. It would fall back to default settings after about 5 seconds. In my case it took 30 minutes because I forgot I read that in the manual and did all kinds of stuff to get it going and it eventually booted up after about the 20th restart. If I would have left it alone it would have started right back up I suppose.

RCH

Raise your glasses against evil forces. Whisky for the men and beer for the horses.

 

[Vince604]

Okay thanks. I don't need ECC memory as I'm not running a server. Is there any performance difference between the amount of chips? Like would a stick of memory with 8ICs be better than one with 4 ICs?

Alright.

Yes that is true. When OCing all the parts in your system will have an affect and with low quality parts it's probably the botteneck to your OCing. That's why I'm looking for only high quality parts for the best OCing performance. I'm sure Corsair, Geil, OCZ, and other memory manufactures have well made memory but why get something at such a high price when I can get something cheaper and still achieve the same results?

Ah yes. That feature I believe is on many motherboards nowadays and if not you can just pull out the batter or unplug the PSU and it'd reset the entire motherboard to default settings. Well if you don't mind taking your time in OCing it's well worth it. Proper hardware is somethinng essential to get a decent OC result in my opinion. But cooling is another factor and so on.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. The fewer chips draw less current and cool better.
I was wrong about the double sided chips I added one to many ICs. The extra chip is usually a parity chip. Sometimes it can be an ECC chip. The original reason memory started going all non-parity is because of cost savings. Parity and ECC is making a comeback they say. It's more expensive. It's good for server's and mission critical applications. Oh yeah, you should run your computer as a network server. It will get better performance. Go to settings>system>performance>file system> and your see the drop down menu. It'll say desktop computer, network server, and mobile something. Change to NS and reboot. If you want to. I've heard it recommend many times.

RCH

 

[Vince604]

So basically single sided would be better?

ECC and parity? What's the difference? Well what's the chances of getting a memeory error?
I'm kind of having problems finding those settings... would I have to format the entire drive? If not can you please explain a little more in detail? I'm using Windows XP Pro SP1 and I'm not sure where I can change the file system if I'm already using the NTFS file system for my hard drives.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. Parity will just basically catch an error and halt your system. ECC can fix errors. Sometimes one or two bits. More expensive memory can have ECC which fixes more errors. The chances of getting a memory error are slim, but the more mutitasking done, the greater load, extra heat, faster system all increase the odds of producing an error.

Yeah, I would go with the lowest chip count, single-side, fastest memory I could get. Gold plated unless your motherboard specifies tin. The memory company would send you the right plating I'm sure. The good ones like Crucial and Kingston.

RCH

Yeeaa_eaahh I'm a Voodoo Child - Jimi H.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. Sorry, I forgot to mention the thing about network server. Hey, I don't know a darn thing about XP. It's probably optimized already for the best running performance. MS had better have it right by now. I have read a lot of horror stories about XP. Almost as good as 98se and ME. And you should read the ones about Zone Alarm. Whew!. I used ZA. Took awhile to tame that beast and I bought it. I pay a software author now and again. As far as P2P goes... Down with the RIAA.

RCH

 

[Vince604]

Well even if I encounter a memory error what would be the effects of one?
Will the memory still run as fast with the same performance if I get EEC RAM?

Alright then. I'll find single side ram with the lowest amount of chips..

So your on Windows 98se? Well I haven't had any problems with XP yet. I don't use Zone alarm either as my hub already has a built in firewall. So it's all good for me I guess.

Thanks

 

[fastingsetiman]

You have XP so you might be in a whole different ballgame. I don't know. I know 0 about XP. My next OS will be Win2000pro, some linux, or Mac(I don't have that kind of money, and besides, where's the fun).
Hi. With ECC you may never know because it will correct errors unless it's to many for the strength of ECC you have. With parity, the system will hang, hopefully not freeze, then you can do a restart and would lose any data which wasn't saved. If you have a task manager program like I do, you can open it up(only during a hang) and terminate, hopefully, the offending program that's open at the moment. You'll still lose data, if you have data to lose, but you won't have to reboot. Also you can get an array of errors that are annoyances that you click out of and you just reopen the screen, file or program. Some will throw you into an instant restart. Freezes, you'll have to manually turn the computer off. Get this. Sometimes the off switch on the computer won't do it. You have to pull the plug out of the wall, or turn off the ups like I have. I've gone through what seems like thousands of these things. Windows is a harsh mistress.

 

[Vince604]

So basically I should be getting better stability with ECC RAM? Performance is the same but if any errors occur ECC is there to prevent the system to freeze or crash?
Hmm I leave my computer on 24/7 usually but if I ever had to turn it off I can always hold down the power switch button for 3-5 seconds and it'd turn off. With XP it shutoffs automatically anyways.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. You know, I don't know what XP recommends, but I've read some guru's talk about a comeback of ECC and they think it's a good thing. Personally, I guess if I can afford XP I can afford ECC. I run 98se. There's those laugh's again. I've turned off my ECC for my L2 cache before and things ran pretty good. Talk about threading the electrons. Things started to get squirrely, but it's 98se and I didn't feel like taking the time to pin it down so I just turned ECC back on. At that time I was tweaking this and that, who knows what it was. I've got things smokin' pretty good right now, maybe I'll try it again. Instability is my way of life. There's a 98se forum on Tom's maybe there's an XP forum, 'cause I sure don't know anything about it. I'm going with non-parity till they don't make it anymore.

RCH

Every day, every week, I'm in a different city. People try to put me down. I say carry on with yourselves. - Jimi H.

 

[Vince604]

Win98 se really isn't all that bad. I still know others who are using it also.
Oh alright I get it. So memory can play an essential role in your OS? Hmm well I guess ECC can play an important role when it comes down to overclocking. I believe it will help keep the system more stable but question is really when are you likely to have a memory error? I'm not running a server or anything but if it's worthwhile I might as well as pay the extra bucks for something that'd be useful in the future.
I don't know too much bout memory but why would you want non-parity RAM? Isn't it good to have parity RAM? Just like ECC... but your just paying more for it.

 

[fastingsetiman]

Hi. I've spent a few hours on the PC and as far as I can tell from experience and what I've read parity and ECC isn't worth talking about anymore. Do I look like the Einstein of memory?. You want stability?. Buy a Mac, run linux, unix, write your own code. Heck, you want ECC, go get it. If you're running Windows Me or below at gigahertz speeds with sofware that is written by humans expect errors. Win2000pro and above is supposed to be more stable. I haven't lived in that fairyland yet. I've crashed thousands of times. It's just part of my computer existence. Sickening, but true. Have a nice day and don't mention parity or ECC again to me, please?.

 

[lhgpoobaa]

HEHEHEHE yep!
The chance of ECC finding an error and fixing it on the fly would have to be around 1 in every 1000 windows related crashes.
ECC for the home user is a waste of money and performance.

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