EMT plate vs. EMT plate impulse?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:
>A few years ago, the general consensus in this group was "There's no
>digital reverb that comes close to a real plate." Is this still the
>case today with convolution reverbs commonplace? How close do the
>impulses come to matching the real thing in terms of diffusion? Are
>there any non-linearities that can't be captured by an impulse?

I played with the Sony sampling reverb, and the plate sample on it sounded
an awful lot like a real plate. Enough that I'd want to hear it side by
side with the real thing before I make any actual decision. But, it costs
more than the real thing.

>In other words, should I go buy a 140 if I like that thick plate sound
>(which I believe do)? I have never heard a plate in person so I have
>nothing to compare with. There's a stereo tube one (with remote) for
>sale at this end of the country:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=
>3755947193&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

So ask the man if you can go in and play with it before bidding. If you
like it, get it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Levitt wrote:

> A few years ago, the general consensus in this group was "There's no
> digital reverb that comes close to a real plate." Is this still the
> case today with convolution reverbs commonplace? How close do the
> impulses come to matching the real thing in terms of diffusion? Are
> there any non-linearities that can't be captured by an impulse?

Not sure if there are any of signifigance in a real plate
but, as it appears that you understand, if there are then
they won't be reproduced by convolution.

If there are, I doubt that they would add anything
particularly pleasant, though. IR measurement can easily
discard non-linear effects so that the portion that is
exactly reproducable by convolution might well sound better
than the real thing.

Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <clb1kp$57n$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
> Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:
> >A few years ago, the general consensus in this group was "There's no
> >digital reverb that comes close to a real plate." Is this still the
> >case today with convolution reverbs commonplace? How close do the
> >impulses come to matching the real thing in terms of diffusion? Are
> >there any non-linearities that can't be captured by an impulse?
>
> I played with the Sony sampling reverb, and the plate sample on it sounded
> an awful lot like a real plate. Enough that I'd want to hear it side by
> side with the real thing before I make any actual decision. But, it costs
> more than the real thing.

Right, I saw that post in Google... I was wondering if anyone'd done
such a comparison since then. Convolution reverb engines in software
are now a hundred bucks or less (some are free), and I've seen free
plate samples online as well - as someone pointed out, you can get Wendy
Carlos's (solid-state) 140 plate for free.

They sound nice, and they're my usual go-to reverb for vocals; I wonder
if a real one is even nicer.

> >In other words, should I go buy a 140 if I like that thick plate sound
> >(which I believe do)? I have never heard a plate in person so I have
> >nothing to compare with. There's a stereo tube one (with remote) for
> >sale at this end of the country:
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=
> >3755947193&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
>
> So ask the man if you can go in and play with it before bidding. If you
> like it, get it.

I guess I don't trust my own ears enough yet to compare it out of
context of my own studio; I don't have the experience. OTOH I'm afraid
to lose an opportunity; I get the impression that stereo-tube-remote
140s in recent service are not incredibly common, and this one's only a
few hours away, which makes shipping cheaper.

On the third hand, they say, and have reconfirmed, that their plate is
not more than 300 pounds, and probably less - two skinny guys moved it
easily. But various web sites claim a 140 is supposed to be 425 pounds
(danalexander) or even 600 pounds (Universal Audio), so now I'm even
more confused - are there different models/sizes of 140? This one is
about 4 x 8 feet.

On the fourth hand, does a plate need to be in any particular kind of
space? I have a climate-controlled garage; will that do, or do the
acoustics of the room affect the plate sound? I know the chamber is
supposed to be somewhat soundproof, but I also seem to recall that
studios used to hang plates in iso rooms.

One suggestion someone had was to rent some time in a local studio with
a 140, bring a cowbell or two, and compare the reverbed cowbell with an
impulse taken from the same plate.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Levitt wrote:

> I guess I don't trust my own ears enough yet to compare it out of
> context of my own studio; I don't have the experience. OTOH I'm afraid
> to lose an opportunity; I get the impression that stereo-tube-remote
> 140s in recent service are not incredibly common, and this one's only a
> few hours away, which makes shipping cheaper.
>
> On the third hand, they say, and have reconfirmed, that their plate is
> not more than 300 pounds, and probably less - two skinny guys moved it
> easily. But various web sites claim a 140 is supposed to be 425 pounds
> (danalexander) or even 600 pounds (Universal Audio), so now I'm even
> more confused - are there different models/sizes of 140? This one is
> about 4 x 8 feet.
>
> On the fourth hand, does a plate need to be in any particular kind of
> space? I have a climate-controlled garage; will that do, or do the
> acoustics of the room affect the plate sound? I know the chamber is
> supposed to be somewhat soundproof, but I also seem to recall that
> studios used to hang plates in iso rooms.
>
> One suggestion someone had was to rent some time in a local studio with
> a 140, bring a cowbell or two, and compare the reverbed cowbell with an
> impulse taken from the same plate.
>

I'm a big fan of a real plate. We have a solid state 140
stereo with Jim Cunningham pickups. It's a really
beautiful sound and our experience is that we use our
digital verbs very little compared to the 140. A little
touch of plate here and there really glues a mix
together in way that I find very pleasing. Generally
speaking, if you bought this one and it's in decent
condition, I think you will be very happy you did. I've
not used the impulse reverbs so I couldn't compare, but
have heard very positive comments about those also.

As for moving, I always understood that they weigh about
400 + lbs. When moving it, you can remove the sides
which cuts the weight down a bit. There are plates on
each ends with holes in them. If you stick a steel rod
(like a mic stand) across each end inside the lifting
plates two people can move one fairly easily, but 4
would be better. Make sure you get the moving
instructions first to prep it properly, otherwise you'll
be sorry. Both Dan A. and Jim C. have those instructions.

Ours in mounted on top of some neoprene rubber pads and
we have no problems with physical vibrations. You can
hang them from chains off of ceiling rafters also. That
was a common method. It will require tuning after you
install it. This is a difficult and frustrating job. You
will break a few clips doing so, but that is normal. It
will also be a lot of work running the audio and remote
control wires out to your garage, so budget time and $
for that. I think your climate controlled garage will be
a fine location except when a car is going in and out of
course. It does nead to be about 8 inches away from the
wall, but that's no big deal.

It's like owning a old sports car. High performance has
it's price. There will be lot's or hard work involved
but I think it is well worth it. There is lots of info
from previous posts over the years. Do a google search
and read up. Best of luck...

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ

jn145_deletethisfirst_@verizon.net

visit the new website: http://www.retromedia.net

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

WillStG wrote:

> Well the beeping is what makes it a "demo", isn't it?

For people with very short attention spans. <g>

--
ha