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Multi - o/s boot?

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Anonymous
March 21, 2002 1:04:05 PM

Hi all,
I have just loaded W2K pro with Win98se as a dual boot and it is working fine.

Some questions I need answered if someone can help please.

I have 3 hard drives setup like this so far:

IDE 28Gb 1 partition C:/ - 27.9Gb Win-98se

SCSI_1 18Gb 5 partitions
D:/ - 2.3Gb Win-2000pro
E:/ - 1.2Gb Win-98se (copy of C:/, want to load ME upgrade into it if possible)
F:/ - 1.2Gb Win-98se (copy of C:/)
G:/ - 9.3Gb Storage for programs
H:/ - 3Gb NTFS ready for XPpro

SCSI_2 18Gb 1 partition J:/ - 18Gb Storage (Empty)


Basically I want to have the IDE drive as storage and Iam concerned about removing the original O/S from it. I am using IBM Disk manager.

1. Does W2k need a floppy startup disk or will the W98 do, if so how do I make one for W2k?

2. Can I have W98 and Win-ME on different partitions and be included in the boot manager or will Win-ME take over?

3. How do I load XP onto a pre-setup partition and will XP want to take over W2k or can I tell it which partition to goto and will it also be included in the boot manager?

4. Should I have the program storage(G) on another hard drive like (J) to have quicker access or is it better to load the programs in each operating sytem file tree?

5. In boot manager I have an extra listing of W2k there which was my stuff up, how do I remove it?

Did I say some questions, oh well.

Thanks for any replies.



<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:

More about : multi boot

March 21, 2002 3:59:22 PM

Yep, you definitely came up with a few questions!

First, a comment.

If you used any kind of disk overlay software to partition and format the hard drives, WinXP may not function correctly. The OS also may not properly detect other hard drives formatted with this kind of utility. I'd stick with the standard FDISK, or partition with a Win2K or WinXP CD.

With that out of the way, lets tackle the questions.

<font color=green>"1. Does W2k need a floppy startup disk or will the W98 do, if so how do I make one for W2k?"</font color=green>

That depends on the file system on the partition, and what you are attempting to do. If the file system is FAT32, you can access the Win2K files with a Win98 startup disk. It it's NTFS, you can't. If this is about an installation of the OS, you can either boot with the Win2K CD (after changing the boot order in the BIOS) and choose a partition for the installation (and formatting is also an option, with a choice of file systems) ... and/or <A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q197063" target="_new">create</A> (or <A HREF="http://www.bootdisk.com/" target="_new">download</A>) a set of floppy disks that can install the the OS in <i>combination</i> with the OS CD.

You may also find this link to be of interest:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q119467" target="_new">How to Create a Bootable Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition (Q119467)</A>

<font color=green>"2. Can I have W98 and Win-ME on different partitions and be included in the boot manager or will Win-ME take over?"</font color=green>

Good question. Look here:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q289283" target="_new">Description of Supported Dual-Boot Configurations Between Windows-Based Operating Systems (Q289283)</A>

<font color=green>"3. How do I load XP onto a pre-setup partition and will XP want to take over W2k or can I tell it which partition to goto and will it also be included in the boot manager?"</font color=green>

You can easily install WinXP in a separate partition during the installation from the menu you'll see after the initial text-based portion of the installation is complete. Right from the start, choose not to install the OS as an upgrade, and you'll see the options.

You may find these links to be helpful:

<A HREF="http://windows2000.about.com/cs/dualboot/" target="_new">Articles and general information for dual booting (or multi-booting) with Windows XP, 2000, NT and other Operating Systems</A>

<A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gett..." target="_new">Multibooting with Windows XP</A>

<font color=green>"4. Should I have the program storage(G) on another hard drive like (J) to have quicker access or is it better to load the programs in each operating sytem file tree?"</font color=green>

I don't recommend that you attempt to "share" programs between the operating systems. For a program to function correctly, it must have Registry entries in each operating system.

However, I prefer to install all programs ... in an individual operating system ... in a separate partition. This allows the partition that contains the operating system to be less cluttered, and it is easier to backup and image the individual partitions with this method. I <i>always</i> store personal files in a partition other than the primary that contains the OS, for exactly the same reasons. And if the OS ever becomes unbootable, for whatever the reason, or if a hard drive begins to fail, the possibility of accessing or saving those files is much higher if these files are in a different partition.

<font color=green>"5. In boot manager I have an extra listing of W2k there which was my stuff up, how do I remove it?"</font color=green>

There are two ways.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=109" target="_new">How do I remove an OS from a dual boot?</A>

Here are some extra links that you might wish to check out:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q293401" target="_new">How to Enable Dual Boot After You Install Windows Me on a Windows 2000-based Computer (Q293401)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.3dspotlight.com/articles/dualboot/index.shtm...
" target="_new">Full Guide to OS Dual Booting</A>

<A HREF="http://www.zdnet.com/community/stories/main/0,9057,2662..." target="_new">How to Dual-Boot Windows 2000 and Windows 95/98</A>

<A HREF="http://content.techweb.com/winmag/windows/guides/dualbo..." target="_new">The Essential Guide to Dual Booting Windows</A>

See ya!

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
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____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 21, 2002 7:43:51 PM

Thanks very much for that detailed answer. :smile:

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
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Anonymous
March 24, 2002 12:55:01 AM

Ok me again.... :smile:

Thanx for the great links, but I have a FEW more questions if you could kindly answer them please.

This is what I am thinking of setting up-
IDE hard drive as two partitions, one for win98se with storage etc just for the kids to bash around with, as my kids know how to download all kinds of crap!
and the other partition for backups and storage for data and photo's. It is a 30Gb HD and Iam thinking in two equal parts.

The other two SCSI hard drives I could have one of them as a complete NTFS and the other HD for Win9x.

So what your saying is to have a seperate "programs/data storage partition" for each O/S?

Would it be easier to have one of the 17Gb scsi Hard drives exclusively partitioned for W2k-pro,XP-pro, and a "programs partition" for both. 4 partitions on that Hard drive?

And the same as above for the second SCSI HD for Win-9x?

How big should the O/S partitions be, allowing for updates etc?
(I have already found out about running out of space).

Thanks again for your assistance.


<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by scotty3303 on 03/24/02 01:55 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 24, 2002 2:41:24 AM

Okay ... this is what I see.

One IDE drive with one partition. 28GB

One SCSI drive with five partitions. 18GB

Second SCSI drive with one partition. 18GB.

After giving it some thought, if this was my system, this is how I'd set up the configuration:

<b>IDE drive:</b>

Two partitions. Win98. (For the kids)

<b>First SCSI drive:</b>

FAT32. Four partitions. Win 98 & Win2K.

<b>Second SCSI drive:</b>

NTFS. Three partitions. WinXP.

Here's my reasoning:

The first IDE drive is basically self-explanatory. An isolated hard drive with two partitions, as you were thinking. The first partition for the OS, and the second for programs, like games, and any files the kids want to download.

Now ... the first SCSI drive.

Since you are wanting to run a multiple-boot system with three different OS's and two SCSI drives, I'd suggest that the first SCSI drive be FAT32, so that all the partitions on the drive can be visible, regardless of which OS you boot into. Install Win98 in the first, active partition, and Win2K into the second. Use the third partition for Win98 downloads, programs, and data storage. Use the fourth partition for Win2K downloads, programs, and data storage.

The second SCSI drive:

WinXP functions best if installed in the first partition at the top of a hard drive. (Microsoft recommends this.) This drive could be NTFS, and it wouldn't be visible from the operating system on the IDE drive. The first partition for the OS, of course. The second for programs and data storage. A third, smaller partition for operating system patches/hotfixes/hardware drivers and for burning images. You could store the drivers for all three operating systems in this partition. And having a designated area on one of the hard drives for burning an image is a good idea. Not only could you store the latest images here, but it's sometimes necessary with imaging software to burn an image to the hard drive before copying it to CD ... otherwise, the image might not be valid.

Having images of all the other partitions could save you many hours of work in the future!

Here's a few extra comments ...

If you decided to drop Win98, for your own personal use, then both SCSI drives could be NTFS, and not visible to the children when they used the computer. That would keep your files safer. Then the first SCSI drive could be just Win2K, with two partitions, which would cut down on the amount of drive letters.

And Win2K, like WinXP, functions best when installed at the top of a partition on a hard drive.

Having one operating system per hard drive has some advantages. If one hard drive fails, you'll still have two other operating systems you can boot into, and you'll only need to edit the boot.ini file to remove the missing OS.

Finally, I'd say that having a partition for an operating system need be no larger than four GB, if the third-party programs are all installed in a separate partition. But imaging software, such as Drive Image 5.0, will only back up the data ... not the free space, so the images will be much smaller than the partition.

Always install the older operating systems first in a multi-boot configuration!

Whew! I'm glad you didn't have a lot of questions this time!

:wink:

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 24, 2002 3:01:38 AM

Iam now thinking, after some reading up on this that it might be better to have the three o/s by themselves on each HD with a second partition on each HD for applications and data.. possibly a third but things would get too messy and confusing.

Can I increase the size of a partition without formatting, is it also possible to create and/or delete a partition without formatting?

Then I have to work out how to get all the o/s reckonized by the boot manager. Thanks.

Cheers big ears!



<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 24, 2002 3:44:23 AM

<font color=green>"Can I increase the size of a partition without formatting, is it also possible to create and/or delete a partition without formatting?</font color=green>

Well, that depends. Not with FDISK, or the OS installation CD's.

Let's assume, just for the heck of it, that you have just the IDE drive installed, with two partitions. And you have a copy of a program like PartitionMagic 7.0.

You could use the program to delete the second partition and integrate it into the primary partition without completely formatting the primary partition. First it would be deleted, and then set aside as unallocated space. Then you could add it to the primary partition.

Now, let's assume the same scenario, but with only the primary partition on the drive. You could create several other partitions from the first, all different sizes. But Partition Magic would automatically format them after they were created. No file system = no place to put the data, and no drive letter.

You <i>can</i> alter the size of a partition with a program like this. If you make it smaller, you can add the free space elsewhere. But it you make it larger, it must come from another partition.

PartitionMagic can do this with both FAT32 and NTFS partitions.

However ... there is always the chance that data can be lost whenever you alter the primary, active partition. So I suggest you backup first before changing anything!

If you use FDISK to delete a partition, it must always be deleted in the sequence that it was created. Logical first, then extended, then primary. Othewise, you'll end end up with an inaccessible partition on the disk.

You could use a program like <A HREF="http://www.acronis.com/products/oss50/multibooting.html" target="_new">this</A> for multi-booting IDE and SCSI drives. It will do the partitioning, too. That might take some of the guess-work out of the situation.

PartitionMagic also has a Boot Manager, called BootMagic.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 25, 2002 9:21:25 AM

Thanks again,
I will drop W98 out of equation and just have it for the kids disk, can always re-install it again anyway. Only thing I will need it for is to run some of my older drivers until I find the udates for W2k.

Lots of fun about to happen with me tryin to figure all this out, but hey I will be richer for the experience.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
Anonymous
March 25, 2002 1:19:15 PM

Well thanks again for your help, that program partition magic is well....magic!


<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 25, 2002 1:54:08 PM

If you need help installing/configuring Win2K, or locating drivers, let me know.

PartitionMagic <i>is</i> a pretty nice program, huh? :wink:

Toey

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 25, 2002 2:23:34 PM

I do need help with setting up the boot drive. The boot manager (windows version) needs win98se on the IDE C:/ drive to boot correctly, how do I get that to run off the D:/ scsi/win2000 drive?
(I want the SCSI HD's to be totally Independant of the IDE drive)

If it is relevant we had to have w98se installed to load W2k as it was a Compaq W2k CD we loaded from. Something to do with a ntoskrnl.exe file I believe but I do not want to f^@# with this blindly.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 25, 2002 11:36:18 PM

Sorry I took so long to get back to you, dude ... today was strangely hectic!

The Compaq Win2K CD ... this is an upgrade disk, or a full version? From what you are saying, the Compaq CD would not install the operating system without first detecting a previous version of Win98 ... is that correct?

It's been my experience, that if you have a CD with a full version of Win98, during the installation of Win2K, you should only have to use the Win98 CD to prove that you have a licensed version of the OS. Then you can use the upgrade CD for a clean install, without needing to install Win98 on the partition first.

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q256026" target="_new">Windows 2000 Upgrade Version CD-ROM Allows New Installations (Q256026)</A>

A problem with the ntoskrnl.exe file could occur for several different reasons. But it's likely to be because of an incorrect or missing entry in the boot.ini file, or due to an outdated device driver. Be ready to install Service Pack 2 for Win2K immediately after the installation, then the chipset drivers, DirectX 8.1, the sound card drivers, and finally ... the video card drivers. Always do them last in Win2K ... this way, the rest of the system will be less likely to have a conflict with the video card.

If you want the IDE disk to be completely independent of the SCSI disks ... then you'll need to change the boot order in the BIOS from SCSI (or other) to IDE 0 (and back again) during the operating sysem installation(s), each time you wish to select which device should be bootable.

This means the only operating systems that will show up in the bootloader after you are finished will be Win2K and WinXP. Win98 won't be a part of this. It will only boot if IDE 0 is first in the BIOS. Win2K and WinXP will only be bootable selections if SCSI is first.

Or you can use a boot manager, such as mentioned previously, to select which OS goes where. But that means the kids will still be able to access the NTFS disks, unless you password-protect access to the operating systems ... which is a very easy thing to accomplish.

Toey

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 26, 2002 11:15:25 AM

If I change the boot order from C:\ IDE/win98 to SCSI first it cant find the boot file or something in boot manager. Although it lists win 98se in the boot manager it cannot boot into this either. This is why I asked about how to rectify this. Can I just re-install over the top of W2k or do I save my settings and drivers ect in a backup and do a clean install?

Anyway this is the boot sequence using IDE for boot assistance and works.

<font color=green>[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINNT
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional" /fastdetect
C:\="Kids Windows 98"
</font color=green>

I know I can change the default etc and I did stuff around a little with this the other day, what if anything needs changing?

Thanx for your patience again.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 26, 2002 3:37:04 PM

Hey, dude ...

The first thing I have to say is that you should definitely backup your drivers, personal files, etc. That's my viewpoint, regardless of the circumstance. The last thing that anyone wants to do is lose data while making major changes to a system. Kinda takes the fun out of it, you see? :tongue:

The central assumption I've been making while we have been working through this is that you wish for the IDE drive to be isolated from the rest. However ...

What makes this particular multi-booting scenario complicated is two things ... one, that the system has two bootable devices, and with more than one <i>bus</i>. That would be the IDE drive on the mainboard IDE controller, and the other being the SCSI card, with the SCSI drives. The second is that you are attempting to change as little as possible in other to set up the multi-boot.

This would be much simpler if you had only IDE drives, or SCSI drives, but having both adds an extra element of difficulty to the current setup.

With your current configuration, isolating the IDE drive is not really possible, due to where the boot loader files are located. And you are not going to be able to switch the boot device preference in the BIOS because of this. When the system starts up, those files must be found, and if the boot sequence is changed, that can't happen. The SCSI drive does not contain those files ... they are on the root of the C: directory on the IDE drive. And the hard drive with the primary, active partition is also the IDE drive.

This is why nothing will load if you change the boot device to SCSI first in the BIOS.

Everything I had described previously had been written with the idea in mind of a complete reinstallation of all operating systems, with clean partitions.

Basically, as I see it, you have two choices.

1.) Keep the current configuration. Boot to the IDE drive. Then use something like the TweakUI PowerToy to "hide" the SCSI drives from access in the Win98 GUI. But with this setup, you'll have to choose from among the three operating systems when the computer boots.

If you have an original Win98 CD, the this PowerToy is located on the CD under Tools\Reskit\Powertoy. You can install it by right-clicking on the file, and choosing "Install" from the right-click menu.

If this is Win98 SE (Second Edition), you'll have to download the utility because it is not on that installation CD.

<A HREF="http://www.createwindow.com/wininfo/powertoys.htm" target="_new">How to Install Power Toys (TweakUI) and Kernel PowerToys</A>

2.) Format all partitions that contain operating system files. Boot to the IDE drive, and install Win98. Then add the other operating systems to the two SCSI drives as clean installations. This will have to be done from within the Win98 GUI. You can do this either with a third-party boot manager, or by choosing the advanced options from within the Win2K/WinXP setup, so you can select the partition where the operating system should go. However, again ... there will still be a choice of operating systems when the computer boots.

There is a third option, but it is the most complicated procedure. And it is the only way to completely isolate the IDE drive. This involves installing Win98 on the IDE drive, disconnecting it from the computer ... and then installing Win2K on the first SCSI drive. And you'll not only have to do some formatting, but you'll also have to repartition the master-jumpered SCSI drive to pull it off.

In my opinion, the end result isn't worth the effort.

I think the first solution is the best for you. With the PowerToy, the kids won't be able to see the SCSI drives from within Win98. And they won't be able to boot into the other operating systems with the SCSI drives if you don't give them user privileges and a password.

Toey

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 26, 2002 3:51:06 PM

Yes, it is getting very complicated. As far as I know I cannot see the scsi drives in w98se prolly coz they are NTFS now. My major concern is that if the IDE was to drop dead I won't have a boot. Thanks again.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 26, 2002 3:55:20 PM

Image all the hard drives, especially the active partition on the IDE drive. Then if the drive develops a problem, or has to be replaced, you can install a new drive, partition it, and put the image on the new partition. The image will format the partition for you, and put everything back, exactly as it was.

Are you having any difficulty accessing Win2K from the boot loader?

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 27, 2002 12:11:39 AM

I really do appreciate your assistance and patience with this... :smile:
I is not very knowledgeable, need 2 be learned proper. :lol: 

No problem starting W2k or accessing it, just would like the IDE drive out of the equation for a few reasons:
1. As mentioned above, and kids being on the boot drive.
2. SCSI boot should be quicker.
3. Less complications for myself.
4. It’s had a hard life, and I want little or no problems once I get this system the way I want it.
5. Only want IDE for storage.

My kids only visit me for 8 weeks a year on 3 to 4 different occasions, so it’s not worth building another system for them, particularly if I can keep them on one HD.

When finances become more liquid I will include a 120gb 8mb cache drive, I’m progressively building a system for rippin' CD's, DVD’s, home theatre, CAD, video editing and graphic design work.

My original idea of SCSI's doing the work and a large IDE for storage and temp' storage is still right I think although I’m open to suggestions.

Anyway, I’m prepared to re-install W2k to achieve a SCSI boot only, if that’s the easiest way around it!
Is it possible to install it on the second SCSI HD partition I have made for WinXP and transfer files and settings across, then reconfigure the jumpers and boot ID or can I use partition Magic to switch em' around?

or

Just unplug the IDE and do cd-rom support thing?


<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
March 27, 2002 2:03:31 AM

You are welcome. And I'm doing my best to help!

In order for you to use the IDE drive, keep it separate, and still have it be a bootable device:

1.) Back up your files.

2.) Create a <A HREF="http://www.mirrors.org/archived_software/www.bootdisk.c..." target="_new">startup disk</A>. Add the DOS drivers for the SCSI controller to the disk. These can normally be obtained from the manufacturer's website. I'll explain why later in this message.

3.) Next, create an Emergency Recovery Disk in Win2K. This can be done using a Wizard under Start\Programs\Accessories\System Tools\Backup.

4.) Change the boot order in the BIOS to floppy, IDE 0, and then SCSI.

5.) Edit the boot.ini file in Win2K and remove Win98.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=109" target="_new">How do I remove an OS from a dual boot?</A>

6.) Boot with the startup disk, and format the active partition on the IDE hard drive.

7.) Reboot with the startup disk, and reinstall Win98 from Setup.exe on the CD. Add the patches, updates, programs, etc. Install the imaging software and image the disk.

Once this is complete ...

8.) Go into the BIOS, and under the IDE configuration, set the auto detect for the drive to None. Take note of the drive parameters under the Manual setting, in case you ever need to change these settings by hand.

You should be able to choose between Win98 in the boot at this point, just by changing the IDE drive parameters to none in the BIOS. But, if Win2K won't boot ...

9.) Change the boot order in the BIOS to CD-ROM first.

10.) Place the Win2K installation CD in the caddy. Reboot. Right before Win2K normally starts, hit F8. After the text-based portion of the setup is complete, choose to repair the installation using the Emergency Recovery Disk, so the boot sector will be repaired.

11.) Reboot, and change the boot order in the BIOS back to IDE 0, SCSI, CD-ROM.

You should be able to access Win2K at this point after restarting. Again, update the operating system, such as with the second service pack, and any patches or hotfixes from Windows Update. When you are finished, install the imaging software, and image the partitions.

In order to access Win98, re-detect the IDE drive in the BIOS. With the IDE drive detected, it will boot first. With it set to None, the SCSI drive will boot.

Of course, you realize that with this setup, the IDE drive cannot be used to exchange data when the SCSI controller is used to boot into the other two operating systems, even though FAT32 partitions are visible from within Win2K and WinXP. This is the price you'll pay for isolating the IDE drive in the boot sequence from the other operating systems.

If you add a Supervisory password to the BIOS after this is finished, only you will ever have access to the BIOS. But do not, I repeat ... do not lose that password!

The reason I mentioned adding DOS SCSI controller drives to the startup disk is so that the imaging program can locate the SCSI controller, which will allow you to image the partitions on the SCSI drives.

A program like Drive Image has support for NTFS files systems, but will need those DOS drivers in order to locate the controller. Drive Image has it's own version of Caldera DOS, which has no inherent support for SCSI controllers.

Later, when you are ready to install WinXP, do this from the Win2K GUI. But choose the advanced option, so you can choose a partition on the second SCSI drive for the installation.

How does this setup strike you? Unless you use a boot manager, and wish to have the IDE drive in the boot sequence, with some kind of boot loader file for all three operating systems ... this is the only way to I can think of to create the configuration. Beyond this ... I'm tapped out!

I've never used Norton Ghost, so I can't give you a comparison between it and Drive Image. Perhaps someone else can pop in here and give you the low-down between the two programs.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
Anonymous
March 30, 2002 7:55:39 PM

Well Mr. Toey, thankyou for all of your valued assistance.

Everthing is so much clearer thanks to your help.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
Anonymous
April 1, 2002 1:54:00 PM

RE: Drivers.

Me again, your nightmare has returned!

I have this crappy sound card that has worked before but for some reason won't now.

It is a Creative ?????? dunno, but I have the numbers of him! :smile:
Model# CT4810
Serial # M48101101828865
Build date: 04/10/2000

Thanks for any info.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
April 1, 2002 4:15:10 PM

See Re: Drive Image Instructions, Private Msg.

Toey

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
!