Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Any good movies to get me in the mood?

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:33:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Hey All,

I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
for IL2 - FB?

Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
watching movies in between...

Got plenty of porn so don't even say it

Cheers

James

More about : good movies mood

Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:13:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.
June 24, 2005 3:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Dunno about flight movies, but if you want an excellent representation of a
forgotten battle from WWII, watch, "When Trumpets Fade," it is about the
battle of the Hurtgen Forest which took place before the battle of the
bulge. another forgotten battle film is Field Of Honour, which is about
Danish military involvement in the Korean War. I watched this years ago, but
cannot find it on DVD now. A good book to get you in the mood would be The
Legion Of The Damned, not the sci-fi book, but the one about Waffen SS
troopers fighting in Vietnam (don't want to spoil the story), I read the
first of this series, but cannot track down the others, especially
interested in the one that says that SS led to the establishment of American
SOG in Vietnam. Wether they are true or not is another matter, as I have
read conflicting accounts on the internerd. Hope this is of some help.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:28:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2005 08:13:00 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:

>I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
>flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
>pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
>Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.

<Replying to original poster>

If you can afford it, the Thames Television Series "World at War" has
some of the best actual gun camera footage I have ever seen. I recall
one of a 109 being banged by a Spit (I think) at treetop level and you
can see the rounds that miss kicking up dirt. You have to look through
the series to see them all, but I highly recommend it.

I have also seen it in local libraries.

Villain

"A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend"- Willow Rosenberg
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 6:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:51:43 -0400, Briarroot wrote:

>> 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.
>
>Never heard of this one.

For the benefit of US posters (as it seems this was probably a more
European release film), here's the Amazon link:
http://tinyurl.com/exody

or:
http://www.darkblueworld.com

"A piece of Cake" is at:
http://tinyurl.com/7jofj

.... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
http://tinyurl.com/9y55x


Adamski.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 6:11:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Adamski wrote:
>
>
> "A piece of Cake" is at:
> http://tinyurl.com/7jofj
>
> ... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
> http://tinyurl.com/9y55x
>

I read it and loved it, but it's got no pictures! ;-)
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 7:23:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:49:54 +1200, Adamski <anon@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 23 Jun 2005 20:33:33 -0700, Lawsy wrote:
>
>>Hey All,
>>
>>I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
>>for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
>>for IL2 - FB?
>>
>>Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
>>watching movies in between...
>
>1) "The Battle of Britain": Fairly old now, but still worth a watch.
>Worth it just to see Galland asking Goering for a squadron of
>Spitfires. Not true, but a great line. Other highlight is Suzannah
>York in stockings and bra.
>

I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.

Haukeye
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Dark Blue World - maybe the best modern movie with WWII warplanes (all of
them real planes, BTW, with small or no CG effects).

The beginning of "Enemy at the Gates" has digitally rendered Stukas, but the
attack over the Volga transit made me buy IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles
in the first place ^__^

Also, I have a weak spot for "Midway", even if "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is a
better movie.
June 26, 2005 2:05:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h6mrb118nre8i27s9el3jbjtu73g90gjtc@4ax.com...

>
> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
> out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.
>
> Haukeye


No you are correct. I have a signed 1st edition of
"The First And The Last" and he definitely said it.























Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

www.piaodown.com wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2005 08:13:00 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
> >flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
> >pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
> >Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.
>
> <Replying to original poster>
>
> If you can afford it, the Thames Television Series "World at War" has
> some of the best actual gun camera footage I have ever seen. I recall
> one of a 109 being banged by a Spit (I think) at treetop level and you
> can see the rounds that miss kicking up dirt. You have to look through
> the series to see them all, but I highly recommend it.
>
WaW really was a great show, wasn't it? It seems easier to appreciate
it now, after over a decade's worth of imitators on "Discover Wings"
and "The History Channel".

Actually, now that we're going into "footage" - my fave is a bit I
caught from an exhibit at "The Intrepid" dedicated to "The Battle of
Britain". There was a shot of an Me-110 crew over England looking
confident, until this Spitfire comes along. The -110 lasts long enough
to register shock at the Spit's arrival. By then I "knew" that Spits
didn't win "The Battle", but it was a rousing bit all the same.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 5:30:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:18:58 -0400, Briarroot wrote:

>Adamski wrote:

>> "A piece of Cake" is at:
>> http://tinyurl.com/7jofj

>> ... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9y55x

>I read it and loved it, but it's got no pictures! ;-)

Hehe. Agreed. I thought that both the humour and the tragedy came over
well in the book - but it all came over a little trivialised in the
film - like a public school jolly jape. Great Spitfire sequences
though :-))

Adamski.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 10:52:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message

> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
> out the book and look it up

They got this new thing called the internet. You could try searching that...
: )

--
Toosmoky
Ride the Penguin...
http://toosmoky.d2.net.au
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 10:49:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I remember "Piece of Cake" from around 1990. It was played in America
on "Masterpiece Theater". It would probably be weird to watch now -
the story centered at times on American who knew ALL the answers before
the Brit pilots. (War's going to be hell, we need metal propellors on
our planes, we're going to do as well as we think, the Nazis are going
to be brutal, we're NOT going to be finished with this war by
Christmas.)

Also, the series focused on Spit pilots, rather than on Hurrican
drivers as the book had.

I haven't seen PoC in years - were the Me-109's merlin powered?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 1:21:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Adamski wrote:
> On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
> >> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
> >> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
> >
> >That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
> >it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
> >would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
> >isn't true?
>
> Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
> often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
> out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.
>
> The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?
>
> Adamski.

The book is based on real events but the characters are fictional
compositions of people. For the sake of truthfull history the point we
are discussing is pretty important to clarify.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:48:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:52:06 +1000, Toosmoky wrote:

>"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
>
>> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
>> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
>> out the book and look it up
>
>They got this new thing called the internet. You could try searching that...
>: )

Yeah, sure ... but hardly anyone quotes the *original source* on a
website. Most of the popular [modern] "urban legends" have been spread
via the Internet - with no-one ever checking the facts.

At least with a decent book, there's usually a bibliography so you can
determine whether they, in turn, were accurate.

Neither is it true that just because something appears in a
biography/autobiography that it actually happened. For instance, some
"facts" in Montgomery's autobiography are so far-fetched that they are
laughable. It's a fairly common problem with any historical research.

Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
German Panzers in WWII. They did not. Nice image, though, given an
aura of "apparent" authenticity by a piece of film that is known to
have been staged, by the Germans, for propaganda purposes. If you
don't want to believe *that*, then be prepared for a 2GB e-mail from
me <LOL>. I warn you ... I'm Polish.

On the Galland issue, I'm not altogether sure. I'm prepared to be
persuaded either way. I think I've heard evidence from both sides.
Though I [truly] admire Galland as a pilot and historical figure (I
can hardly say I *knew* him!), I'm reluctant to take a quote from his
book at face value.

Adamski.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 10:35:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:05:04 -0400, "AM" <SCTUSER@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:h6mrb118nre8i27s9el3jbjtu73g90gjtc@4ax.com...
>
>>
>> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
>> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
>> out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.
>>
>> Haukeye
>
>
>No you are correct. I have a signed 1st edition of
>"The First And The Last" and he definitely said it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Allan
Signed by Galland??? I'm impressed!!!
I've gota a signed copy of Computer GamingWorld with a review of the
original "Fighter Duel" and signed by the reviewer himself I'll trade
you for it! You'll never find such an offer anywhere else!!!!

Hawkeye
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 5:51:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:

>> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
>> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
>> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
>
>That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
>it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
>would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
>isn't true?

Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.

The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?

Adamski.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 1:34:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

I read the account and it is very interesting to read but at the risk
of being a hardhead and anal I think it is fictional as described.
Common sense tells me that in reality even ONE tank against even a
THOUSAND cavalry would win without any doubt at all. What harm would
come to a tank against sabres and lances? "The Germans were poor
shots?" The Germans were in disarray, confused, paniced? Here is
reality: they ran over Poland in a Blitzkreig. I have extreme hatred
for the Nazis of ww2 but they knew how to win a war. Their weapons were
superior, tanks,planes, strategy, determination. They were trained for
war, organized, and ruthless in action. The destruction of Poland in
days is well documented and truth. There is no shame for Polish people
over losing to Germans- they had zero chance of holding off the German
attack- none regardless of gallantry, pomp, and sacrifices. In present
day war the horseback cavalry is replaced by armor- horse against tank
equals NO CONTEST. Sabre and lance against armor equals NO CONTEST.
All of what I said is history and beyond denial. Poland tried to defend
and were rolled over like a steam roller without mercy from the air and
ground. It is not a myth that it happened.
I truly appologise for stating it this way, but it is the stark, naked,
reality that it occured and England then declared war over it.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 4:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On 27 Jun 2005 09:21:53 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:


>Adamski wrote:
>> On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
>> >> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
>> >> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
>> >
>> >That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
>> >it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
>> >would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
>> >isn't true?
>>
>> Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
>> often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
>> out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.
>>
>> The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?
>>
>> Adamski.
>
>The book is based on real events but the characters are fictional
>compositions of people. For the sake of truthfull history the point we
>are discussing is pretty important to clarify.

"Based on real events" can mean almost anything.

With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".

Adamski.
June 28, 2005 4:47:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:q871c1tg5jpdsh83670m4d8ektspjb1lgu@4ax.com...

>
> With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
> of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".
>


http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history...


Well... here is one I MISSED !

Interesting read, I am looking for another source to verify it
hopefully a German one.

But... looks like I might have been hasty in my original post.

















Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 6:59:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

yeah they derek robinson books are treemendous

i don reed no good and id recommend them to everyone particularly "An
Artillery of Lies" even though eets the one weeth they least amount
flight time

there very very funny
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 2:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

AM wrote:
> "Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:2hi2c1pqfjobemoss3bgd03at57dv29us8@4ax.com...
>
> > Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
> > brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
> > e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
> > LOL.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I am in questioning mode right now.

In that battle there was a winner and a loser- who do you think lost
that battle? I have never seen a tank stabed by a lance. Of course
there were infantry on both sides but the Germans also had artillery,
Stukas, mg, hand grenades, etc. and we have history that accounts for
what happened. The Germans had the equipment and determination to win-
they were prepared for war and to win in the fastest way possible with
tactics that worked. This was no longer trench warfare- it was full
speed ahead destroying the enemy totally as they went- no time to make
a battle line and bravery counted for nothing.
My mental image was a Polish calvalryman in uniform with brass buttons
on the tunic with a tall colorfull hat with a feather in it riding a
white horse and waving a sabre charging German armor thru an open
field. Brave, but deadly unwise.

> The account sounds good right up to the point where they took
> almost NO casualties from MG, or rifle fire, and this while crossing
> a stubble field for over a mile............
>
> I am looking for coloration before I draw a firm conclusion about
> this report. I did figure it worth mentioning.
>
> Like I said before, those Polish cavalry were VERY brave, and
> well versed at unit level tactically.
>
> Every German after action report I have read, mentions them being
> used as infantry, and NOT as we normally think of cavalry being used
> in the old days.
>
>
> Also, one must remember that tanks have a VERY large set of blind
> spots when operating buttoned up. The blind spot from a Tiger
> commanders copula looking foreword is something like 55 feet !!!!!
> Not easy, but quite possible for *intrepid* infantrymen get in under.
> Even for driver from his vision aperture it is still almost 15 feet in front
> of the tank................

How fast can someone run from 55 feet against a tank machine gun? And
then what does someone do when they reach a tank if that is possible?
And what are the other tanks doing in the meantime? And what are the
supporting infantry doing while someone is trying to stab a tank? I am
not making light of their bravery or trying to be glib- just using
common sense with history on my side.
I am not a history buff or expert- just someone using my imagination of
how it must have been during that time.
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 5:15:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:30:45 -0400, AM wrote:

>
>"Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:q871c1tg5jpdsh83670m4d8ektspjb1lgu@4ax.com...

>> With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
>> of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".

>http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history...

>Well... here is one I MISSED !
>
>Interesting read, I am looking for another source to verify it
>hopefully a German one.
>
>But... looks like I might have been hasty in my original post.

Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
LOL.

I couldn't find his original post to me (a couple of years old - and
archived somewhere) so I had to look up a few links myself. Usual
thing - not everything you read on a website could be said to be true
either, but I think there's enough there to get the drift.

That was a good link, BTW (I found that one too!). One of the other
sites I found also debunks other myths including the Polish AF being
wiped out on the ground in the first couple of days etc.

Adamski.
June 29, 2005 5:15:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:2hi2c1pqfjobemoss3bgd03at57dv29us8@4ax.com...

> Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
> brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
> e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
> LOL.



Hi

I am in questioning mode right now.

The account sounds good right up to the point where they took
almost NO casualties from MG, or rifle fire, and this while crossing
a stubble field for over a mile............

I am looking for coloration before I draw a firm conclusion about
this report. I did figure it worth mentioning.

Like I said before, those Polish cavalry were VERY brave, and
well versed at unit level tactically.

Every German after action report I have read, mentions them being
used as infantry, and NOT as we normally think of cavalry being used
in the old days.


Also, one must remember that tanks have a VERY large set of blind
spots when operating buttoned up. The blind spot from a Tiger
commanders copula looking foreword is something like 55 feet !!!!!
Not easy, but quite possible for *intrepid* infantrymen get in under.
Even for driver from his vision aperture it is still almost 15 feet in front
of the tank................




Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
June 29, 2005 1:48:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

<Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120021267.107244.151210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> How fast can someone run from 55 feet against a tank machine gun? And
> then what does someone do when they reach a tank if that is possible?

It isnt a question of running up to it, but more of one when the tanks
have penetrated the foreward infantry line. The Poles instinctively
understood the need to seperate tanks from supporting infantry.
(most armies figured this one out right off !)
Molotiov cocktails, sactchel charges, grenade bundles all worked
well enough to at the very least disable the light tanks that were the
mainstay of the german tank force at the time.

I will scan some pics from a translated German infantry manual.
Belkieve it or not, there are even reccomendations on how to
diaable a tanks MG with a crowbar ! Or the main guin by putting a
grenade down the barrell. All this with picutres (drawings) too !
Mud over the vison slits, log's in the running gear etc...
The catch to all this is that it took uncommonly brave infantry to do this,
and by 1942, the germans realized that they did not have enough of
these uncommonly brave infantry to do this. It is at this point you see
the introduction of handheld infantry AT weapons. (Panzerfaust,
and Panzerschreck, along with then current handheld magnetic AT mines)

At that time, the germans had no heavy tanks, MK I's, and II's
were the vanguard. The existing anti tank *rifles* of the day could get in,
same with 2.5cm and 3.7cm, and simmilar AT guns.
MK III's, and MK IV's were in incredibly short supply.......
(German propaganda was extremely successfull in fooling the world about
the size, and makeup of their panzer forces)

> And what are the other tanks doing in the meantime? And what are the
> supporting infantry doing while someone is trying to stab a tank?

The other tanks will be (are) looking for the source of any fire, and or
strongpoints. The infantry will be trying to keep up, give flank protection
and attempt to neutralize infantry AT fire. Believe it or not, the Germans
were still refining their tactics, and not all went as planned, the plans
were still be made. Call it on the job training.
The defenders PRIMARY job was (still is) to seperate the infantry from
the armoured vehicles, and force the infantry to go to ground.
If the tanks continue without them, they will soon be in serious trouble.
German tank commanders were taught that the commander's main
job was situational awareness, and that required the commander to
be sticking his head out of the copula. (called CE, commander exposed)
They realized right off the trememdous blind spots that ALL tanks have,
and the necessity to negate this by doing so. A lession that took allied
tankers (particulary the Red Army) a LONG time to learn !
The suporting infantry's job is to keep up with the AFV's and make sure that
they can prevent CQB attacks by enemy infantry against their AFV's
The defenders job is to seperate the AFV's from thier supporting infantry,
and let the tanks continue onward, than to seal the gap behind them.
At that point the tanks can almost be dealt with individually.
(remember that after any battle tanks had to lagger,and refuel and rearm)

Now inagine all this being done in the smoke and confusion of
battle..........


> common sense with history on my side.

Vae Victus... History is written by the winners, and in this case
it was the Germans. Interestingly the German reports written by
junior officers is almost like a scientific review of what happened
in the engagements they were in. And the German army at the time
had a policy of *bottom up* flow of information. This meant that the
higher up's responded to problems that junior officers identified.
A system that worked very well in technological, and tactial progress.
Believe it or not, it was a case of higher up's asking the front line
troops what do you need ? It worked extremely well !!!


> I am not a history buff

I like to think of myself as one :) 

I will dig in to the library, and get a list of books ya should read
about the subject.


For starters try ;

"WAR on the EASTERN FRONT"
"The German Soldier On The Eastern Front 1941 -1945"
by James Lucas
ISBN 1-85367-070-7


VERY good book on German tactics, and the way they dealt with varying
climatic, and changing battlefield situations, in WW II.







Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 10:46:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Please spare me the refer.- as I said I am not a history buff. I
stopped reading- right now I am using the reading part of my glasses
and even then have a hard time seeing (blurred vision from diabetes out
of control).
Your discussion is getting mixed up- we were discussing the opening
battles in 1939- Poland had long lost their war by 1941. Poland was not
prepared for war and did not have the weapons you mentioned. In ww1
there was a battle (I think it was Ardenne Forest but not sure) where
the French attacked out of a forest against German machine guns. The
attack was finally halted because the mountain of dead French infantry
prevented any further troops from getting closer. Attacking machine
guns from an open field is total and complete suicide- the Japs in ww2
found that out on Pacific Islands as even 1 remaining marine manning 1
machine gun could hold off a Banzai charge and kill 100s of them (and
win a MOH doing it).
Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost
and Germany defeated Poland in a short periord of time. Weeks rather
than months. By the way, there are 25.4 mm to the inch- are you sure
there is such a gun as a 2.4 centimeter at gun? that would be 24mm (1
inch ?????) must have had one heleva kick. Then if that didn't knock
your should off you can move up to the dreaded 3 cm one- that would
also knock your shoulder off and anyone behind you would walk with a
waddle and high voice.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 8:00:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<1120095989.058890.109570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...

> Your discussion is getting mixed up- we were discussing the opening
> battles in 1939- Poland had long lost their war by 1941.

Well, no. Poland lost a campaign, but technically still was recognised
part of allies (Polish government in exile commanded Polish forces,
including navy and aircraft were fighting until vicotry in 1945,
having more than 200.000 soldiers in the West, and something like half
million in the east, under command of puppet communist government).

> Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
> charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost

As anyone interested in WWII knows, Polish cavalry charging German
tanks is a myth created by German propaganda and never happened. Many
armies of the world in 1939 employed cavalry (including Germans), and
Poland was no exception. Polish cavalry was used as mobile infantry,
more or less.

> and Germany defeated Poland in a short periord of time. Weeks rather
> than months.

Poland fought about the same time as France, with the difference that
France had at their disposal also British forces, Polish 2 divisions
and a lot more of time to prepare. (And a lot shorter border to
defend, Poland was attacked almost from all sides).
June 30, 2005 11:10:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

<Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120095989.058890.109570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Please spare me the refer.- as I said I am not a history buff. I
> stopped reading- right now I am using the reading part of my glasses
> and even then have a hard time seeing (blurred vision from diabetes out
> of control).

Sorry, I did not know this.



> Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
> charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost


Bottom line.

I have never in the close to a hundred books on armoured warfare
in WW II I have, ever found any verifiable, or credible accounts of Polish
cavalry going in against tanks. None !



> Weeks rather
> than months. By the way, there are 25.4 mm to the inch- are you sure
> there is such a gun as a 2.4 centimeter at gun?

Not 2.4, but 2.5cm AT gun

They also had some 4.7 cm AT guns (wheeled as the 2.5 cm were too)
Unfortunately they were only able to field apporx. 5 batteries of them


Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 12:50:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.One thing is
indisputable- soldiers on horseback are no match for tanks.
Whether Poland fought on in ww2- and there were Poles fighting in the
RAF also, the point is that the map of Europe is colored BLACK for Nazi
conquest at the time. The Normany invasion was the final push to take
it all back and erase the black.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 4:07:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

"Lawsy" <vedder@transfieldservices.com> wrote in message
news:1119584013.808071.325350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hey All,
>
> I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
> for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
> for IL2 - FB?
>
> Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
> watching movies in between...
>
> Got plenty of porn so don't even say it
>
> Cheers
>
> James
>

In no order

1. 12 o'clock High
2. 30 secs Over Tokoyo
3. Wing and a Prayer
4. Flying Leathernecks
5. Fighter Command

And finally, while this film takes place after the war, I consider it one of
my favorites: The Best Years of Our Lifes.
July 6, 2005 11:49:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

<Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120276227.811689.131760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
> they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.

Obliviously you will only believe what you want to believe.

Don't worry, history and truth will go foreword without you.............






























Allan


--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 9:16:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

AM wrote:
> <Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1120276227.811689.131760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
> > they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.
>
> Obliviously you will only believe what you want to believe.
>
> Don't worry, history and truth will go foreword without you.............

Do you think that 66 yrs. since the event is enough for history to
catch up with the truth? When it is still in doubt maybe the truth will
never be really known. If it will make you happy, then, I will believe
whatever you say it was and I can sleep easier tonight knowing you are
at peace with it.
Hey, I'm easy.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 1:35:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

gaffo wrote:
> Adamski wrote:
>
>
>
> > 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.
>
> best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
> with air battles.
>
> music and cinematography is tops.
>
> 5-star movie!!
>
> director also did "Kolya"
>
> ...........................two other great ww2 movies (one air battles)
>
>
>
> Saints and Soldiers
>
>
> Harts War

Now, that one is crummy. I love war movies and I like the stars in it
but the plot is almost non existant. I understand the battle of wills
in it but it just did not cut it for me. I am particularly a Bruce
Willis fan and have liked every other movie I have seen him in incl.
the Die Hard series.
Air battles? 1 dog fight scene (very short). From the perspective of
the camp (on the ground). A dull, dreary, predictable, and mostly non
eventfull waste of movie time.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:06:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Adamski wrote:



> 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.

best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
with air battles.

music and cinematography is tops.

5-star movie!!

director also did "Kolya"

............................two other great ww2 movies (one air battles)



Saints and Soldiers


Harts War


--

[The jury has an] unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in
disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...The
pages of history shine on instances of the jury's exercise of its
prerogative to disregard uncontradicted evidence and instructions of the
judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law.

D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, Unites States v. Dougherty, 1972
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:45:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:06:18 GMT, gaffo wrote:

>Adamski wrote:
>> 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.

>best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
>with air battles.

>music and cinematography is tops.
>5-star movie!!
>director also did "Kolya"

Heh. Glad you enjoyed it too. I found it pretty atmospheric - and the
aerial photography was good. I found the love interest thing a bit on
the wet side though.

Having [Polish] family myself - that also suffered in the post-war
period in Poland (as did many ex RAF pilots that returned), I
sympathised with the ending in the film. I also appreciated the "good"
German character.

Adamski.
!