Any good movies to get me in the mood?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

Hey All,

I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
for IL2 - FB?

Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
watching movies in between...

Got plenty of porn so don't even say it

Cheers

James
35 answers Last reply
More about good movies mood
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
    flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
    pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
    Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dunno about flight movies, but if you want an excellent representation of a
    forgotten battle from WWII, watch, "When Trumpets Fade," it is about the
    battle of the Hurtgen Forest which took place before the battle of the
    bulge. another forgotten battle film is Field Of Honour, which is about
    Danish military involvement in the Korean War. I watched this years ago, but
    cannot find it on DVD now. A good book to get you in the mood would be The
    Legion Of The Damned, not the sci-fi book, but the one about Waffen SS
    troopers fighting in Vietnam (don't want to spoil the story), I read the
    first of this series, but cannot track down the others, especially
    interested in the one that says that SS led to the establishment of American
    SOG in Vietnam. Wether they are true or not is another matter, as I have
    read conflicting accounts on the internerd. Hope this is of some help.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 24 Jun 2005 08:13:00 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:

    >I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
    >flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
    >pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
    >Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.

    <Replying to original poster>

    If you can afford it, the Thames Television Series "World at War" has
    some of the best actual gun camera footage I have ever seen. I recall
    one of a 109 being banged by a Spit (I think) at treetop level and you
    can see the rounds that miss kicking up dirt. You have to look through
    the series to see them all, but I highly recommend it.

    I have also seen it in local libraries.

    Villain

    "A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend"- Willow Rosenberg
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:51:43 -0400, Briarroot wrote:

    >> 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.
    >
    >Never heard of this one.

    For the benefit of US posters (as it seems this was probably a more
    European release film), here's the Amazon link:
    http://tinyurl.com/exody

    or:
    http://www.darkblueworld.com

    "A piece of Cake" is at:
    http://tinyurl.com/7jofj

    .... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
    http://tinyurl.com/9y55x


    Adamski.
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Adamski wrote:
    >
    >
    > "A piece of Cake" is at:
    > http://tinyurl.com/7jofj
    >
    > ... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
    > http://tinyurl.com/9y55x
    >

    I read it and loved it, but it's got no pictures! ;-)
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:49:54 +1200, Adamski <anon@nowhere.com> wrote:

    >On 23 Jun 2005 20:33:33 -0700, Lawsy wrote:
    >
    >>Hey All,
    >>
    >>I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
    >>for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
    >>for IL2 - FB?
    >>
    >>Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
    >>watching movies in between...
    >
    >1) "The Battle of Britain": Fairly old now, but still worth a watch.
    >Worth it just to see Galland asking Goering for a squadron of
    >Spitfires. Not true, but a great line. Other highlight is Suzannah
    >York in stockings and bra.
    >

    I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
    I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
    out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.

    Haukeye
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dark Blue World - maybe the best modern movie with WWII warplanes (all of
    them real planes, BTW, with small or no CG effects).

    The beginning of "Enemy at the Gates" has digitally rendered Stukas, but the
    attack over the Volga transit made me buy IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles
    in the first place ^__^

    Also, I have a weak spot for "Midway", even if "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is a
    better movie.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:h6mrb118nre8i27s9el3jbjtu73g90gjtc@4ax.com...

    >
    > I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
    > I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
    > out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.
    >
    > Haukeye


    No you are correct. I have a signed 1st edition of
    "The First And The Last" and he definitely said it.


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    www.piaodown.com wrote:
    > On 24 Jun 2005 08:13:00 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but have you considered the
    > >flight scenes from "Pearl Harbor"? I know the movie blows, that it's
    > >pure Hollywood, and that real P-40's didn't zip between hangars like
    > >Tie Fighters, but the attack scene is just so cool.
    >
    > <Replying to original poster>
    >
    > If you can afford it, the Thames Television Series "World at War" has
    > some of the best actual gun camera footage I have ever seen. I recall
    > one of a 109 being banged by a Spit (I think) at treetop level and you
    > can see the rounds that miss kicking up dirt. You have to look through
    > the series to see them all, but I highly recommend it.
    >
    WaW really was a great show, wasn't it? It seems easier to appreciate
    it now, after over a decade's worth of imitators on "Discover Wings"
    and "The History Channel".

    Actually, now that we're going into "footage" - my fave is a bit I
    caught from an exhibit at "The Intrepid" dedicated to "The Battle of
    Britain". There was a shot of an Me-110 crew over England looking
    confident, until this Spitfire comes along. The -110 lasts long enough
    to register shock at the Spit's arrival. By then I "knew" that Spits
    didn't win "The Battle", but it was a rousing bit all the same.
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:18:58 -0400, Briarroot wrote:

    >Adamski wrote:

    >> "A piece of Cake" is at:
    >> http://tinyurl.com/7jofj

    >> ... though I think the original book by Derek Robinson is far better:
    >> http://tinyurl.com/9y55x

    >I read it and loved it, but it's got no pictures! ;-)

    Hehe. Agreed. I thought that both the humour and the tragedy came over
    well in the book - but it all came over a little trivialised in the
    film - like a public school jolly jape. Great Spitfire sequences
    though :-))

    Adamski.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message

    > I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
    > I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
    > out the book and look it up

    They got this new thing called the internet. You could try searching that...
    : )

    --
    Toosmoky
    Ride the Penguin...
    http://toosmoky.d2.net.au
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    I remember "Piece of Cake" from around 1990. It was played in America
    on "Masterpiece Theater". It would probably be weird to watch now -
    the story centered at times on American who knew ALL the answers before
    the Brit pilots. (War's going to be hell, we need metal propellors on
    our planes, we're going to do as well as we think, the Nazis are going
    to be brutal, we're NOT going to be finished with this war by
    Christmas.)

    Also, the series focused on Spit pilots, rather than on Hurrican
    drivers as the book had.

    I haven't seen PoC in years - were the Me-109's merlin powered?
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Adamski wrote:
    > On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:
    >
    > >> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
    > >> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
    > >> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
    > >
    > >That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
    > >it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
    > >would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
    > >isn't true?
    >
    > Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
    > often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
    > out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.
    >
    > The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?
    >
    > Adamski.

    The book is based on real events but the characters are fictional
    compositions of people. For the sake of truthfull history the point we
    are discussing is pretty important to clarify.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:52:06 +1000, Toosmoky wrote:

    >"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
    >
    >> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
    >> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
    >> out the book and look it up
    >
    >They got this new thing called the internet. You could try searching that...
    >: )

    Yeah, sure ... but hardly anyone quotes the *original source* on a
    website. Most of the popular [modern] "urban legends" have been spread
    via the Internet - with no-one ever checking the facts.

    At least with a decent book, there's usually a bibliography so you can
    determine whether they, in turn, were accurate.

    Neither is it true that just because something appears in a
    biography/autobiography that it actually happened. For instance, some
    "facts" in Montgomery's autobiography are so far-fetched that they are
    laughable. It's a fairly common problem with any historical research.

    Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
    event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
    German Panzers in WWII. They did not. Nice image, though, given an
    aura of "apparent" authenticity by a piece of film that is known to
    have been staged, by the Germans, for propaganda purposes. If you
    don't want to believe *that*, then be prepared for a 2GB e-mail from
    me <LOL>. I warn you ... I'm Polish.

    On the Galland issue, I'm not altogether sure. I'm prepared to be
    persuaded either way. I think I've heard evidence from both sides.
    Though I [truly] admire Galland as a pilot and historical figure (I
    can hardly say I *knew* him!), I'm reluctant to take a quote from his
    book at face value.

    Adamski.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:05:04 -0400, "AM" <SCTUSER@comcast.net> wrote:

    >
    >"Hawkeye" <j.rathgeber@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
    >news:h6mrb118nre8i27s9el3jbjtu73g90gjtc@4ax.com...
    >
    >>
    >> I'm almost positive I read about Galland's quote in a book on him. As
    >> I remember he said it jokingly but he still said it. Will have to dig
    >> out the book and look it up so I'm not positive.
    >>
    >> Haukeye
    >
    >
    >No you are correct. I have a signed 1st edition of
    >"The First And The Last" and he definitely said it.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Allan
    Signed by Galland??? I'm impressed!!!
    I've gota a signed copy of Computer GamingWorld with a review of the
    original "Fighter Duel" and signed by the reviewer himself I'll trade
    you for it! You'll never find such an offer anywhere else!!!!

    Hawkeye
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:

    >> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
    >> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
    >> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
    >
    >That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
    >it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
    >would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
    >isn't true?

    Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
    often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
    out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.

    The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?

    Adamski.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    I read the account and it is very interesting to read but at the risk
    of being a hardhead and anal I think it is fictional as described.
    Common sense tells me that in reality even ONE tank against even a
    THOUSAND cavalry would win without any doubt at all. What harm would
    come to a tank against sabres and lances? "The Germans were poor
    shots?" The Germans were in disarray, confused, paniced? Here is
    reality: they ran over Poland in a Blitzkreig. I have extreme hatred
    for the Nazis of ww2 but they knew how to win a war. Their weapons were
    superior, tanks,planes, strategy, determination. They were trained for
    war, organized, and ruthless in action. The destruction of Poland in
    days is well documented and truth. There is no shame for Polish people
    over losing to Germans- they had zero chance of holding off the German
    attack- none regardless of gallantry, pomp, and sacrifices. In present
    day war the horseback cavalry is replaced by armor- horse against tank
    equals NO CONTEST. Sabre and lance against armor equals NO CONTEST.
    All of what I said is history and beyond denial. Poland tried to defend
    and were rolled over like a steam roller without mercy from the air and
    ground. It is not a myth that it happened.
    I truly appologise for stating it this way, but it is the stark, naked,
    reality that it occured and England then declared war over it.
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 27 Jun 2005 09:21:53 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:


    >Adamski wrote:
    >> On 27 Jun 2005 04:32:16 -0700, Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Most people prefer to believe the more "colourful" version of an
    >> >> event. Eg. The popularly held belief that Polish cavalry charged at
    >> >> German Panzers in WWII. They did not.
    >> >
    >> >That is a belief I also have held for a long time. Not sure where I saw
    >> >it (perhaps the book Exodus???) I always wondered what the cavalry
    >> >would have done if they actually had reached a tank? How do you know it
    >> >isn't true?
    >>
    >> Because the German the propaganda film from which that excerpt is so
    >> often shown is well documented. Give me a couple of days and I'll dig
    >> out all the info. It's an urban myth, believe me.
    >>
    >> The book "Exodus" (Leon Uris) good as it is, is *fiction*, is it not?
    >>
    >> Adamski.
    >
    >The book is based on real events but the characters are fictional
    >compositions of people. For the sake of truthfull history the point we
    >are discussing is pretty important to clarify.

    "Based on real events" can mean almost anything.

    With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
    of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".

    Adamski.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
    news:q871c1tg5jpdsh83670m4d8ektspjb1lgu@4ax.com...

    >
    > With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
    > of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".
    >


    http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history4.shtml


    Well... here is one I MISSED !

    Interesting read, I am looking for another source to verify it
    hopefully a German one.

    But... looks like I might have been hasty in my original post.


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    yeah they derek robinson books are treemendous

    i don reed no good and id recommend them to everyone particularly "An
    Artillery of Lies" even though eets the one weeth they least amount
    flight time

    there very very funny
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    AM wrote:
    > "Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
    > news:2hi2c1pqfjobemoss3bgd03at57dv29us8@4ax.com...
    >
    > > Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
    > > brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
    > > e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
    > > LOL.
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi
    >
    > I am in questioning mode right now.

    In that battle there was a winner and a loser- who do you think lost
    that battle? I have never seen a tank stabed by a lance. Of course
    there were infantry on both sides but the Germans also had artillery,
    Stukas, mg, hand grenades, etc. and we have history that accounts for
    what happened. The Germans had the equipment and determination to win-
    they were prepared for war and to win in the fastest way possible with
    tactics that worked. This was no longer trench warfare- it was full
    speed ahead destroying the enemy totally as they went- no time to make
    a battle line and bravery counted for nothing.
    My mental image was a Polish calvalryman in uniform with brass buttons
    on the tunic with a tall colorfull hat with a feather in it riding a
    white horse and waving a sabre charging German armor thru an open
    field. Brave, but deadly unwise.

    > The account sounds good right up to the point where they took
    > almost NO casualties from MG, or rifle fire, and this while crossing
    > a stubble field for over a mile............
    >
    > I am looking for coloration before I draw a firm conclusion about
    > this report. I did figure it worth mentioning.
    >
    > Like I said before, those Polish cavalry were VERY brave, and
    > well versed at unit level tactically.
    >
    > Every German after action report I have read, mentions them being
    > used as infantry, and NOT as we normally think of cavalry being used
    > in the old days.
    >
    >
    > Also, one must remember that tanks have a VERY large set of blind
    > spots when operating buttoned up. The blind spot from a Tiger
    > commanders copula looking foreword is something like 55 feet !!!!!
    > Not easy, but quite possible for *intrepid* infantrymen get in under.
    > Even for driver from his vision aperture it is still almost 15 feet in front
    > of the tank................

    How fast can someone run from 55 feet against a tank machine gun? And
    then what does someone do when they reach a tank if that is possible?
    And what are the other tanks doing in the meantime? And what are the
    supporting infantry doing while someone is trying to stab a tank? I am
    not making light of their bravery or trying to be glib- just using
    common sense with history on my side.
    I am not a history buff or expert- just someone using my imagination of
    how it must have been during that time.
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:30:45 -0400, AM wrote:

    >
    >"Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
    >news:q871c1tg5jpdsh83670m4d8ektspjb1lgu@4ax.com...

    >> With the greatest respect, a simple Google search will reveal a host
    >> of info. Try : "polish cavalry wwii".

    >http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history4.shtml

    >Well... here is one I MISSED !
    >
    >Interesting read, I am looking for another source to verify it
    >hopefully a German one.
    >
    >But... looks like I might have been hasty in my original post.

    Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
    brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
    e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
    LOL.

    I couldn't find his original post to me (a couple of years old - and
    archived somewhere) so I had to look up a few links myself. Usual
    thing - not everything you read on a website could be said to be true
    either, but I think there's enough there to get the drift.

    That was a good link, BTW (I found that one too!). One of the other
    sites I found also debunks other myths including the Polish AF being
    wiped out on the ground in the first couple of days etc.

    Adamski.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Adamski" <anon@nowhere.com> wrote in message
    news:2hi2c1pqfjobemoss3bgd03at57dv29us8@4ax.com...

    > Well, it takes a big man to admit it <g>. Count yourself lucky - my
    > brother is a bit of an amateur historian and can't seem to write
    > e-mails under 75,000 words. You *nearly* got put in his address book,
    > LOL.


    Hi

    I am in questioning mode right now.

    The account sounds good right up to the point where they took
    almost NO casualties from MG, or rifle fire, and this while crossing
    a stubble field for over a mile............

    I am looking for coloration before I draw a firm conclusion about
    this report. I did figure it worth mentioning.

    Like I said before, those Polish cavalry were VERY brave, and
    well versed at unit level tactically.

    Every German after action report I have read, mentions them being
    used as infantry, and NOT as we normally think of cavalry being used
    in the old days.


    Also, one must remember that tanks have a VERY large set of blind
    spots when operating buttoned up. The blind spot from a Tiger
    commanders copula looking foreword is something like 55 feet !!!!!
    Not easy, but quite possible for *intrepid* infantrymen get in under.
    Even for driver from his vision aperture it is still almost 15 feet in front
    of the tank................


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    <Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1120021267.107244.151210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

    >
    > How fast can someone run from 55 feet against a tank machine gun? And
    > then what does someone do when they reach a tank if that is possible?

    It isnt a question of running up to it, but more of one when the tanks
    have penetrated the foreward infantry line. The Poles instinctively
    understood the need to seperate tanks from supporting infantry.
    (most armies figured this one out right off !)
    Molotiov cocktails, sactchel charges, grenade bundles all worked
    well enough to at the very least disable the light tanks that were the
    mainstay of the german tank force at the time.

    I will scan some pics from a translated German infantry manual.
    Belkieve it or not, there are even reccomendations on how to
    diaable a tanks MG with a crowbar ! Or the main guin by putting a
    grenade down the barrell. All this with picutres (drawings) too !
    Mud over the vison slits, log's in the running gear etc...
    The catch to all this is that it took uncommonly brave infantry to do this,
    and by 1942, the germans realized that they did not have enough of
    these uncommonly brave infantry to do this. It is at this point you see
    the introduction of handheld infantry AT weapons. (Panzerfaust,
    and Panzerschreck, along with then current handheld magnetic AT mines)

    At that time, the germans had no heavy tanks, MK I's, and II's
    were the vanguard. The existing anti tank *rifles* of the day could get in,
    same with 2.5cm and 3.7cm, and simmilar AT guns.
    MK III's, and MK IV's were in incredibly short supply.......
    (German propaganda was extremely successfull in fooling the world about
    the size, and makeup of their panzer forces)

    > And what are the other tanks doing in the meantime? And what are the
    > supporting infantry doing while someone is trying to stab a tank?

    The other tanks will be (are) looking for the source of any fire, and or
    strongpoints. The infantry will be trying to keep up, give flank protection
    and attempt to neutralize infantry AT fire. Believe it or not, the Germans
    were still refining their tactics, and not all went as planned, the plans
    were still be made. Call it on the job training.
    The defenders PRIMARY job was (still is) to seperate the infantry from
    the armoured vehicles, and force the infantry to go to ground.
    If the tanks continue without them, they will soon be in serious trouble.
    German tank commanders were taught that the commander's main
    job was situational awareness, and that required the commander to
    be sticking his head out of the copula. (called CE, commander exposed)
    They realized right off the trememdous blind spots that ALL tanks have,
    and the necessity to negate this by doing so. A lession that took allied
    tankers (particulary the Red Army) a LONG time to learn !
    The suporting infantry's job is to keep up with the AFV's and make sure that
    they can prevent CQB attacks by enemy infantry against their AFV's
    The defenders job is to seperate the AFV's from thier supporting infantry,
    and let the tanks continue onward, than to seal the gap behind them.
    At that point the tanks can almost be dealt with individually.
    (remember that after any battle tanks had to lagger,and refuel and rearm)

    Now inagine all this being done in the smoke and confusion of
    battle..........


    > common sense with history on my side.

    Vae Victus... History is written by the winners, and in this case
    it was the Germans. Interestingly the German reports written by
    junior officers is almost like a scientific review of what happened
    in the engagements they were in. And the German army at the time
    had a policy of *bottom up* flow of information. This meant that the
    higher up's responded to problems that junior officers identified.
    A system that worked very well in technological, and tactial progress.
    Believe it or not, it was a case of higher up's asking the front line
    troops what do you need ? It worked extremely well !!!


    > I am not a history buff

    I like to think of myself as one :)

    I will dig in to the library, and get a list of books ya should read
    about the subject.


    For starters try ;

    "WAR on the EASTERN FRONT"
    "The German Soldier On The Eastern Front 1941 -1945"
    by James Lucas
    ISBN 1-85367-070-7


    VERY good book on German tactics, and the way they dealt with varying
    climatic, and changing battlefield situations, in WW II.


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Please spare me the refer.- as I said I am not a history buff. I
    stopped reading- right now I am using the reading part of my glasses
    and even then have a hard time seeing (blurred vision from diabetes out
    of control).
    Your discussion is getting mixed up- we were discussing the opening
    battles in 1939- Poland had long lost their war by 1941. Poland was not
    prepared for war and did not have the weapons you mentioned. In ww1
    there was a battle (I think it was Ardenne Forest but not sure) where
    the French attacked out of a forest against German machine guns. The
    attack was finally halted because the mountain of dead French infantry
    prevented any further troops from getting closer. Attacking machine
    guns from an open field is total and complete suicide- the Japs in ww2
    found that out on Pacific Islands as even 1 remaining marine manning 1
    machine gun could hold off a Banzai charge and kill 100s of them (and
    win a MOH doing it).
    Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
    charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost
    and Germany defeated Poland in a short periord of time. Weeks rather
    than months. By the way, there are 25.4 mm to the inch- are you sure
    there is such a gun as a 2.4 centimeter at gun? that would be 24mm (1
    inch ?????) must have had one heleva kick. Then if that didn't knock
    your should off you can move up to the dreaded 3 cm one- that would
    also knock your shoulder off and anyone behind you would walk with a
    waddle and high voice.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<1120095989.058890.109570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...

    > Your discussion is getting mixed up- we were discussing the opening
    > battles in 1939- Poland had long lost their war by 1941.

    Well, no. Poland lost a campaign, but technically still was recognised
    part of allies (Polish government in exile commanded Polish forces,
    including navy and aircraft were fighting until vicotry in 1945,
    having more than 200.000 soldiers in the West, and something like half
    million in the east, under command of puppet communist government).

    > Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
    > charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost

    As anyone interested in WWII knows, Polish cavalry charging German
    tanks is a myth created by German propaganda and never happened. Many
    armies of the world in 1939 employed cavalry (including Germans), and
    Poland was no exception. Polish cavalry was used as mobile infantry,
    more or less.

    > and Germany defeated Poland in a short periord of time. Weeks rather
    > than months.

    Poland fought about the same time as France, with the difference that
    France had at their disposal also British forces, Polish 2 divisions
    and a lot more of time to prepare. (And a lot shorter border to
    defend, Poland was attacked almost from all sides).
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    <Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1120095989.058890.109570@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Please spare me the refer.- as I said I am not a history buff. I
    > stopped reading- right now I am using the reading part of my glasses
    > and even then have a hard time seeing (blurred vision from diabetes out
    > of control).

    Sorry, I did not know this.


    > Enough of me discussing this point. I still believe it was a cavalry
    > charge on horseback against German armored units and the cavalry lost


    Bottom line.

    I have never in the close to a hundred books on armoured warfare
    in WW II I have, ever found any verifiable, or credible accounts of Polish
    cavalry going in against tanks. None !


    > Weeks rather
    > than months. By the way, there are 25.4 mm to the inch- are you sure
    > there is such a gun as a 2.4 centimeter at gun?

    Not 2.4, but 2.5cm AT gun

    They also had some 4.7 cm AT guns (wheeled as the 2.5 cm were too)
    Unfortunately they were only able to field apporx. 5 batteries of them


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Polish cavalry history
    http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom/cinema/rzepinski.html
    about 2/3 of the way down.

    Brad
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
    they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.One thing is
    indisputable- soldiers on horseback are no match for tanks.
    Whether Poland fought on in ww2- and there were Poles fighting in the
    RAF also, the point is that the map of Europe is colored BLACK for Nazi
    conquest at the time. The Normany invasion was the final push to take
    it all back and erase the black.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Lawsy" <vedder@transfieldservices.com> wrote in message
    news:1119584013.808071.325350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    > Hey All,
    >
    > I guess what I'm asking is - you know how Das Boot gets you in the mood
    > for Silent Hunter 3, then what are good movies to get me in the mood
    > for IL2 - FB?
    >
    > Got the weekend with some friends to link up and play and wouldn't mind
    > watching movies in between...
    >
    > Got plenty of porn so don't even say it
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > James
    >

    In no order

    1. 12 o'clock High
    2. 30 secs Over Tokoyo
    3. Wing and a Prayer
    4. Flying Leathernecks
    5. Fighter Command

    And finally, while this film takes place after the war, I consider it one of
    my favorites: The Best Years of Our Lifes.
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    <Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1120276227.811689.131760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
    > they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.

    Obliviously you will only believe what you want to believe.

    Don't worry, history and truth will go foreword without you.............


    Allan


    --
    Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    AM wrote:
    > <Stockman91790@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:1120276227.811689.131760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > > Interesting reading- I don't know tho what the truth is about it. As
    > > they say, maybe somewhere in between lies the truth.
    >
    > Obliviously you will only believe what you want to believe.
    >
    > Don't worry, history and truth will go foreword without you.............

    Do you think that 66 yrs. since the event is enough for history to
    catch up with the truth? When it is still in doubt maybe the truth will
    never be really known. If it will make you happy, then, I will believe
    whatever you say it was and I can sleep easier tonight knowing you are
    at peace with it.
    Hey, I'm easy.
  33. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    gaffo wrote:
    > Adamski wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.
    >
    > best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
    > with air battles.
    >
    > music and cinematography is tops.
    >
    > 5-star movie!!
    >
    > director also did "Kolya"
    >
    > ...........................two other great ww2 movies (one air battles)
    >
    >
    >
    > Saints and Soldiers
    >
    >
    > Harts War

    Now, that one is crummy. I love war movies and I like the stars in it
    but the plot is almost non existant. I understand the battle of wills
    in it but it just did not cut it for me. I am particularly a Bruce
    Willis fan and have liked every other movie I have seen him in incl.
    the Die Hard series.
    Air battles? 1 dog fight scene (very short). From the perspective of
    the camp (on the ground). A dull, dreary, predictable, and mostly non
    eventfull waste of movie time.
  34. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    Adamski wrote:


    > 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.

    best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
    with air battles.

    music and cinematography is tops.

    5-star movie!!

    director also did "Kolya"

    ............................two other great ww2 movies (one air battles)


    Saints and Soldiers


    Harts War


    --

    [The jury has an] unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in
    disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...The
    pages of history shine on instances of the jury's exercise of its
    prerogative to disregard uncontradicted evidence and instructions of the
    judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law.

    D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, Unites States v. Dougherty, 1972
  35. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:06:18 GMT, gaffo wrote:

    >Adamski wrote:
    >> 2) "Dark Blue World": Czech film - plenty of Spits.

    >best ww2 movie ever. if you like character development and story along
    >with air battles.

    >music and cinematography is tops.
    >5-star movie!!
    >director also did "Kolya"

    Heh. Glad you enjoyed it too. I found it pretty atmospheric - and the
    aerial photography was good. I found the love interest thing a bit on
    the wet side though.

    Having [Polish] family myself - that also suffered in the post-war
    period in Poland (as did many ex RAF pilots that returned), I
    sympathised with the ending in the film. I also appreciated the "good"
    German character.

    Adamski.
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