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Avril Lavigne on Ashlee Simpson

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November 1, 2004 12:27:13 PM

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Well Avril Lavigne has chimed in about the Ashlee Simpson lip syncing
episode saying it was pathetic and that she would never do it and
making inferences about actually needing to have talent as a singer
etc and herself demostrating as much since she was 15.

She also says she knows of current female superstars who don't sing on
their recordings or live. I went to Ashlee Simpsons site and and
looked at her appearance schedule and I notice that almost none of
them are traditional concert/tour dates. I'd bet dollars to donuts
that she lip-syncs a lot. It all points to a contrived effort to
maximize return without her lack of ability getting exposed.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

More about : avril lavigne ashlee simpson

November 2, 2004 1:06:58 AM

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andrewunix wrote:

> A lot of rock acts have writers' credits on all of their songs and never
> see a dime from royalties.

Hmm. If a writer retains all of his publishing rights, which is standard
for most recording contracts, he will see plenty of royalties on records
sold. The royalty a song writer collects is the "publishing" royalty.
This is separate from the the royalty paid for records sold.

--
Eric

www.Raw-Tracks.com
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 3:19:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

andrewunix wrote:

> :>I was under the impression that touring was how performers made better money
> :>than the percentage they get from the record sales/contract.
> : True, but Avril has writer's credits on most of her tunes and is
> : probably doing very nicely.
> A lot of rock acts have writers' credits on all of their songs and never
> see a dime from royalties.

Touring Acts make some of their best revenue off mechandising...then the take from
the house. CD income on rookie ( less than 2 cd's out) is probably in the low 30K
range these days. Avril, though, sold a gazillion CD's first time out...maybe
she's already paid off her debts from the first and second CD's.

--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 6:13:46 AM

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Avril GOOD!!

Ashlee BAD!!

and now back to things we remotely care about...
November 2, 2004 11:56:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It's very important to tour and get out there no matter what. Being a
pop-star is much like being a politician. You have to get yourself
out there, get press coverage. If not, there are others who will go
out and crowd you out. This is especially important in the pop
segment, where there is not much product differentiation.

Let's say there is a concert of 5,000. Well that's 5,000 boys and
girls talking about going to the concert to their friends, and talking
to them again after the concert is over. Assuming they talk to 5
people before and after the concert, that's 50,000 "talking events".
It also means about 2,000+ t-shirts in school the next day. The
t-shirts are a big profit center, and are walking billboards. You
also get coverage in the local music magazines and other outlets.
Plus it gives you a salable event. It's tough to talk about someone
who "has nothing going on" or "isn't doing anything". Look at the
teen mags. They like action and things that are going on.


Plus, you're only hot for so many years. Then it's touring that keeps
you in touch with the faithful. It's a good idea to habituate your
audience to coming out to see you when they are young, and then
continue that relationship.

There are exeptions to this. But and sales-pro knows that a product
that isn't pushed will eventually die on the vine.
Anonymous
November 2, 2004 4:00:42 PM

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For what it's worth, they had a piece on SNL on 60 Minutes the other
night. They showed Ashlee Simpson singing in rehearsal (sounded like
she was actually singing) then rushing off in tears because she was
supposedly upset about her voice. This lends credence to the claim
that the lip-synching was only done because of the condition of her
voice. Or maybe it was her mental status.

You could tell she was lip-synching when she performed her first
number, every note was perfect. Usually when someone sings live
there's some pitchiness that creeps in there SOMEWHERE, even if
they're well regarded as capable singers.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 12:19:07 AM

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iarwain wrote:

>For what it's worth, they had a piece on SNL on 60 Minutes the other
>night. They showed Ashlee Simpson singing in rehearsal (sounded like
>she was actually singing) then rushing off in tears because she was
>supposedly upset about her voice.

That show was beyond weak though. Leslie Stahl let Lorne Michaels slide big
time on that issue.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 12:19:08 AM

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Mondoslug1 wrote:


>
>
> That show was beyond weak though. Leslie Stahl let Lorne Michaels slide big
> time on that issue.

I think Lorne Michaels was as pissed as anyone by Simpson's
"performance". At least judging by the skits in last Saturday's show.
Anonymous
November 3, 2004 1:06:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< andrewunix wrote:

> A lot of rock acts have writers' credits on all of their songs and never
> see a dime from royalties.

Hmm. If a writer retains all of his publishing rights, which is standard
for most recording contracts, he will see plenty of royalties on records
sold. The royalty a song writer collects is the "publishing" royalty.
This is separate from the the royalty paid for records sold.

--
Eric >>



Not quite correct. What I think you are referring to as "publishing rights" is
actually divided into 2 equal parts--the publisher's share and the writer's
share of the copyright. The composer of the song retains the "writer's" half
of this, and may give up none, some, or all of the publisher's share depending
on what sort of deal he makes.

In other words, a writer can give up his publishing rights and still receive
income from his writer's share.

I think the word you were looking for was "perfomance rights", which refers to
the money collected on behalf of composers and publishers for the public
performance of their music (tv, radio, jukeboxes, etc.) This income, collected
by performance rights societies such as ASCAP or BMI, is divided evenly between
the publishers and writers.

It may seem confusing but believe me, if you're a professional writer it's
worth it for you to get clear about all this.

-R
-R
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:33:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. The fact that
she has NO social awareness what so ever and is self centered. Why
does someone go out of their way to say hey, "I don't lip-sync like
Ashlee and lots of others" ??? Why? She hopes that it will make her
more appearling to her fans and they will think, "Oh goodie.. She is a
real singer!!!" But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
who knocks someone down to make them selfs look better at anything. I
don't care about Ashlee a single bit.. I just think Avril's social
skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
though she presents some talent.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 4:46:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

They are both packaged "artists"

>But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
>who knocks someone down to make them selfs look >better at anything.
If this was true, there would be no "Enquirer".

> I just think Avril's socialskills leaves something lacking >for a pop
star.
I'm sure you were a real diplomat as a teenager too, I know I was. ;-)

Personally, I blame it all on Auto-tune, but as they say,
Technology changes everything.
Tom





<johns33040@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102415606.101558.31940@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. The fact that
> she has NO social awareness what so ever and is self centered. Why
> does someone go out of their way to say hey, "I don't lip-sync like
> Ashlee and lots of others" ??? Why? She hopes that it will make her
> more appearling to her fans and they will think, "Oh goodie.. She is a
> real singer!!!" But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
> who knocks someone down to make them selfs look better at anything. I
> don't care about Ashlee a single bit.. I just think Avril's social
> skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
> though she presents some talent.
>
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 4:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:46:47 GMT, "Tommy B" <mrtomm@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>They are both packaged "artists" <snip>

That says it all right there, especially the quotes around the noun,
"artist." Put both of these in a "live in the studio" situation
cutting directly to master, and they're both talentless goofs.

dB
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:00:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:

> I just think Avril's social skills leaves something lacking for a pop
> star.

Social skills?

What the hell is that about?
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:12:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

--

Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
<johns33040@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102415606.101558.31940@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. The fact that
> she has NO social awareness what so ever and is self centered. Why
> does someone go out of their way to say hey, "I don't lip-sync like
> Ashlee and lots of others" ??? Why? She hopes that it will make her
> more appearling to her fans and they will think, "Oh goodie.. She is a
> real singer!!!" But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
> who knocks someone down to make them selfs look better at anything. I
> don't care about Ashlee a single bit.. I just think Avril's social
> skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
> though she presents some talent.
>


Fancy that. She sounds just like a teenaged girl.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:35:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 7 Dec 2004 02:33:26 -0800, johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:

>Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. The fact that
>she has NO social awareness what so ever and is self centered. Why
>does someone go out of their way to say hey, "I don't lip-sync like
>Ashlee and lots of others" ??? Why? She hopes that it will make her
>more appearling to her fans and they will think, "Oh goodie.. She is a
>real singer!!!" But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
>who knocks someone down to make them selfs look better at anything. I
>don't care about Ashlee a single bit.. I just think Avril's social
>skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
>though she presents some talent.

She's only about 18, what do you expect.

Al
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:12:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jazz Meister <jazzman@jazz.net> wrote:
>johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I just think Avril's social skills leaves something lacking for a pop
>> star.
>
>Social skills?
>
>What the hell is that about?

That's right. That's what managers and handlers are for, so that stars
shouldn't need any social skills.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:12:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> That's right. That's what managers and handlers are for, so that stars
> shouldn't need any social skills.

In fact, not having any almost seems like a prerequisite. :) 
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 1:54:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"play-on" <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:i0ccr0lo44cvsag15embrqp1m4ceqslf9d@4ax.com...
> On 7 Dec 2004 02:33:26 -0800, johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. The fact that
> >she has NO social awareness what so ever and is self centered. Why
> >does someone go out of their way to say hey, "I don't lip-sync like
> >Ashlee and lots of others" ??? Why? She hopes that it will make her
> >more appearling to her fans and they will think, "Oh goodie.. She is a
> >real singer!!!" But the fact is that most people look down on anyone
> >who knocks someone down to make them selfs look better at anything. I
> >don't care about Ashlee a single bit.. I just think Avril's social
> >skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
> >though she presents some talent.
>
> She's only about 18, what do you expect.
>
> Al

I think one of the fun things about being a pop star would be not needing to
have any social skills.

jb
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:37:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:12:32 -0500, "Roger Christie"
<rochrist@<REMOVETOEMAIL>charter.net> wrote:

>--
>
>Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
><johns33040@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1102415606.101558.31940@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Here is the obvious annoying thing about Avril Lavigne. <snip>
>
>Fancy that. She sounds just like a teenaged girl. <snip>

....also with no talent.

dB
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:18:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:v61cr0lp1tdis43k56rttmodnvpp9o97jv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:46:47 GMT, "Tommy B" <mrtomm@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>They are both packaged "artists" <snip>
>
> That says it all right there, especially the quotes around the noun,
> "artist." Put both of these in a "live in the studio" situation
> cutting directly to master, and they're both talentless goofs.

Put both of them in that situation & my money'd be on Avril.

Neil Henderson
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 12:04:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"play-on" <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:i0ccr0lo44cvsag15embrqp1m4ceqslf9d@4ax.com

> She's only about 18, what do you expect.

Behavior that I often see from 16-year-olds that aren't celebrities?
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 4:39:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:04:50 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>"play-on" <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote in message
>news:i0ccr0lo44cvsag15embrqp1m4ceqslf9d@4ax.com
>
>> She's only about 18, what do you expect.
>
>Behavior that I often see from 16-year-olds that aren't celebrities?
>

I don't know how many teens you know but Avril doesn't seem that out
of line to me. She also displays a lot more talent than Ashlee
Simpson IMO.

Al
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 4:56:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2004-12-08, play-on <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote:

> I don't know how many teens you know but Avril doesn't seem that out
> of line to me. She also displays a lot more talent than Ashlee
> Simpson IMO.

I don't see how people think this is any kind of new phenomenon.

I'm sure in 1920, Montparnasse had Chanteuses who weren't as attractive
as Kiki, didn't have Man Ray promoting them, didn't take their clothes
off, etc.

And no doubt, a lot of really talented people couldn't understand why
some whore can make it and they can't...

Nothing new under the sun.

The radio, and the phono, gave a brief period where only the sound
mattered.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:34:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"I'm sure you were a real diplomat as a teenager too, I know I was.
;-)"

well no one's perfect as a teen.. Lol, on the Auto-tune. It makes it
harder to tell which recordings are with auto-tune and arne't. I can
hear it on some songs when it is too-quick to pitch adjust some
singers. The worst singers tend to sound almost electronic sounding
because the more it corrects pitch the more fake it sounds... (hard to
explain)... but yeah, tech changes things
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:44:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot. Fancy that. She
sounds just like a teenaged girl."

Your idea of a teenage girl perhaps. No, she's worse. Typical teenage
maturity (or lack of) is not Avril's problem. She's been fairly rude
on several other occasions, and more so than what you'd expect from a
teen. And some never out grow this... Also I don't know who you are
directing your, 'idiot' statment at, but there would be a good example
right there.. I personally don't buy the cocept that she is "just like
a teenaged girl".. I'd say, she is about twice as rude as a rude teen
age girl.. I've seen too many teen age stars that have surprassed her
personality wise already. She has major talent in several areas, can
write (unless those writers helped her), sounds good etc.. but after
some other things she's done, I still think what I thought is true.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:50:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Social skills?

What the hell is that about?"

Only a major part of what gets these stars into being stars in the
first place. I mean, besides the obvious talents as singers, writers,
artists and so on, their ability to apeal to an audience. So that is
important. Some make great music, but then say the wrong things in
public.. that's all I meant. Only, come to think about it, her being
rude could appeal to some of her audience in a way. hmmm. Like Eminem
making fun of other artists works for him. It's funny when you think
of it, ;-) But it doesn't work for artists I like.. I just tend to
like them less if they are rude. Just me I suppose.. I do like her
"Complicated" song..
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 1:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 02:44:32 -0800, johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:

>"Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot. Fancy that. She
>sounds just like a teenaged girl."
>
>Also I don't know who you are
>directing your, 'idiot' statment at <snip>

He lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, DC.

dB
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:15:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:56:27 GMT, james of tucson
<fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com> wrote:
> On 2004-12-08, play-on <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know how many teens you know but Avril doesn't seem that out
>> of line to me. She also displays a lot more talent than Ashlee
>> Simpson IMO.
>
> I don't see how people think this is any kind of new phenomenon.
>
> I'm sure in 1920, Montparnasse had Chanteuses who weren't as attractive
> as Kiki, didn't have Man Ray promoting them, didn't take their clothes
> off, etc.
>
> And no doubt, a lot of really talented people couldn't understand why
> some whore can make it and they can't...
>

DAGS on Anna Held.

The NY Daily News just ran a piece about a wealthy socialite who was a
simply DREADFUL singer who routinely sang benefit concerts at the big
venues--though I cannot remember whether she was selling out Carnigie
Hall or one of its predecessors.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:15:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles <cdkrug@aol.com> wrote:
>
>The NY Daily News just ran a piece about a wealthy socialite who was a
>simply DREADFUL singer who routinely sang benefit concerts at the big
>venues--though I cannot remember whether she was selling out Carnigie
>Hall or one of its predecessors.
>

Was it Flora Foster Jenkins?

Some of her RCA recordings are available on a compilation CD that has to
be heard to be believed. She is worse than _any_ of my customers.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 5:15:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 09:53:54 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles <cdkrug@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>The NY Daily News just ran a piece about a wealthy socialite who was a
>>simply DREADFUL singer who routinely sang benefit concerts at the big
>>venues--though I cannot remember whether she was selling out Carnigie
>>Hall or one of its predecessors.
>>
>
>Was it Flora Foster Jenkins? <snip>

It was.
>
>Some of her RCA recordings are available on a compilation CD that has to
>be heard to be believed. She is worse than _any_ of my customers. <snip>

....even worse than Linda McCartney! Well...I woulnd't go THAT far....

Ü

dB
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 7:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

YES!! It was the Times, last Sunday's Art's and Leisure, Page 6. There is a
play called "Souvenir"
starring Judy Kaye, about her. One of her recordings is called "Murder on
the High C's".
I think I'll pass on it!

Tom

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cp9ou2$n63$1@panix2.panix.com...
> U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles <cdkrug@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >The NY Daily News just ran a piece about a wealthy socialite who was a
> >simply DREADFUL singer who routinely sang benefit concerts at the big
> >venues--though I cannot remember whether she was selling out Carnigie
> >Hall or one of its predecessors.
> >
>
> Was it Flora Foster Jenkins?
>
> Some of her RCA recordings are available on a compilation CD that has to
> be heard to be believed. She is worse than _any_ of my customers.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 8:07:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 02:50:49 -0800, johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:

>"Social skills?
>
>What the hell is that about?"
>
>Only a major part of what gets these stars into being stars in the
>first place. I mean, besides the obvious talents as singers, writers,
>artists and so on, their ability to apeal to an audience. So that is
>important. Some make great music, but then say the wrong things in
>public.. that's all I meant. Only, come to think about it, her being
>rude could appeal to some of her audience in a way. hmmm. Like Eminem
>making fun of other artists works for him. It's funny when you think
>of it, ;-) But it doesn't work for artists I like.. I just tend to
>like them less if they are rude. Just me I suppose.. I do like her
>"Complicated" song..

Saying outrageous things is a traditional part of rock n roll.
Offending oldsters is part of the whole genre. If you think Avril is
rude, it indicates that you are probably over 40.

Al
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:52:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 09:53:54 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>>The NY Daily News just ran a piece about a wealthy socialite who was a
>>simply DREADFUL singer who routinely sang benefit concerts at the big
>>venues--though I cannot remember whether she was selling out Carnigie
>>Hall or one of its predecessors.
>>
>
>Was it Flora Foster Jenkins?
>
>Some of her RCA recordings are available on a compilation CD that has to
>be heard to be believed. She is worse than _any_ of my customers.

Florence, wasn't it?

BTW, who are Avril Lavigne and Ashlee Simpson?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 11:26:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<johns33040@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102588464.891715.183530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> "I'm sure you were a real diplomat as a teenager too, I know I was.
> ;-)"
>
> well no one's perfect as a teen.. Lol, on the Auto-tune. It makes it
> harder to tell which recordings are with auto-tune and arne't. I can
> hear it on some songs when it is too-quick to pitch adjust some
> singers. The worst singers tend to sound almost electronic sounding
> because the more it corrects pitch the more fake it sounds... (hard to
> explain)... but yeah, tech changes things

Actually, I can crank Autotune to make me sound like a teenaged girl !

geoff
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 11:27:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cp52r4$gpr$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Jazz Meister <jazzman@jazz.net> wrote:
>>johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I just think Avril's social skills leaves something lacking for a pop
>>> star.
>>
>>Social skills?
>>
>>What the hell is that about?
>
> That's right. That's what managers and handlers are for, so that stars
> shouldn't need any social skills.


Avril, Bryan Adam, Neil Young. Hang on, I think there is a trend there
somewhere ...

geoff
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:04:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:07:21 -0800, play-on <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2004 02:50:49 -0800, johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>"Social skills?
>>
>
> Saying outrageous things is a traditional part of rock n roll.
> Offending oldsters is part of the whole genre. If you think Avril is
> rude, it indicates that you are probably over 40.
>
> Al

I saw her piece in . . (stuff/Maxim/Whichever). At first I thought she
said some rude things. Then I got distracted by some other aspect of
the article. Yes, that's what it was, the article.
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 4:29:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"play-on" <playon@ATcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:6fqhr0tihidmmc5aoja92uucqeolvgbfa3@4ax.com...
> Actually she co-writes much of her stuff with a team of professional
> songwriters who also collaborate with other famous singers that I'm
> sure you've heard of.

Like many pop artists these days, they know their name on a songwriting
credit brings in as much cash as singing the song.
Everyone does it, and very few add more than a couple of words. The
songwriters go along with it because they know half of a lot, is better than
all of nothing.

TonyP.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 12:41:17 AM

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On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:29:17 +1100, "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au>
wrote:

>Like many pop artists these days, they know their name on a songwriting
>credit brings in as much cash as singing the song.
>Everyone does it, and very few add more than a couple of words. The
>songwriters go along with it because they know half of a lot, is better than
>all of nothing.

Nothing new about that. The old-time bandleaders often demanded
writing credit in return for performances and particularly broadcasts.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 12:41:18 AM

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On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:41:17 +0000, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Nothing new about that. The old-time bandleaders often demanded
>writing credit in return for performances and particularly broadcasts. <snip>

Tommy Dorsey was wicked about that, and so was Miller.

dB
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 2:51:13 AM

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On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:41:17 +0000, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:29:17 +1100, "TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>>Like many pop artists these days, they know their name on a songwriting
>>credit brings in as much cash as singing the song.
>>Everyone does it, and very few add more than a couple of words. The
>>songwriters go along with it because they know half of a lot, is better than
>>all of nothing.
>
>Nothing new about that. The old-time bandleaders often demanded
>writing credit in return for performances and particularly broadcasts.

Otis Blackwell gave up 50% of the song credit to have Elvis cut his
tunes...

Al
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 12:49:05 PM

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In article <feiqr053slmtddpau4164fgb8qie68nqsn@4ax.com> playonAT@comcast.net writes:

> Otis Blackwell gave up 50% of the song credit to have Elvis cut his
> tunes...

That was probably a very smart business decision. If he recorded them
himself, he wouldn't have sold anywhere near half the number of
records that Elvis did. It wasn't the songs that were big selling
hits, it was the combination of Elvis and the song that made it so.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 2:04:01 PM

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For a pop star? You're thinking she's a disgrace to the memory of Keith
Moon, Johnny Lyndon, and Bob Dylan?

Odd argument though. Consider that nobody loves real saints while they
are alive. We love them when they're dead, so that we can see, in our
admiration of them, a reflection of what we think of ourselves, without
having to put up with the constant comparisons to what they're doing as
opposed to what we're doing.

So if Martin Luther King Jr. made us feel ashamed by proclaiming that he
would not respond to violence with violence, would we accuse him of
trying to be "more appealling to his fans?" When a conservative
Republican proclaims that he admires Martin Luther King Jr., we know
that his ideals have been safely calcified.


johns33040@yahoo.com wrote:
> I just think Avril's social
> skills leaves something lacking for a pop star. And I say that even
> though she presents some talent.
>
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>For a pop star? You're thinking she's a disgrace to the memory of Keith
>Moon, Johnny Lyndon, and Bob Dylan?

I think manufactured popstars are a disgrace to everybody.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:46 PM

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BLCKOUT420 wrote:
>>For a pop star? You're thinking she's a disgrace to the memory of Keith
>>Moon, Johnny Lyndon, and Bob Dylan?
>
>
> I think manufactured popstars are a disgrace to everybody.

Another sad commentary on the current state of affairs:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/13/dick.clark.rep...

Regis to host 'New Year's Rockin' Eve'

(CNN) -- Talk show host Regis Philbin will stand in as host of "Dick
Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve 2005," replacing the long-time producer
who is recovering from a stroke.

** As previously announced, recording star Ashlee Simpson will host West
Coast portions of the show.


BLECH!
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Joe Sensor" <crabcakes@emagic.net> wrote in message
news:325u9oF3hdngcU1@individual.net
> BLCKOUT420 wrote:
>>> For a pop star? You're thinking she's a disgrace to the memory of
>>> Keith Moon, Johnny Lyndon, and Bob Dylan?
>>
>>
>> I think manufactured popstars are a disgrace to everybody.
>
> Another sad commentary on the current state of affairs:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/13/dick.clark.rep...
>
> Regis to host 'New Year's Rockin' Eve'
>
> (CNN) -- Talk show host Regis Philbin will stand in as host of "Dick
> Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve 2005," replacing the long-time producer
> who is recovering from a stroke.
>
> ** As previously announced, recording star Ashlee Simpson will host
> West Coast portions of the show.

Remind me about how Dick Clark himself would be a manufactured popstar.

I mean right now he's been around so long he's part of the woodwork, but in
the beginning he was just a radio announcer who got shoved in front of this
mic in a TV studio that was trying to put together this afterschool music
show for teens.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

>
> Remind me about how Dick Clark himself would be a manufactured popstar.
>
> I mean right now he's been around so long he's part of the woodwork, but in
> the beginning he was just a radio announcer who got shoved in front of this
> mic in a TV studio that was trying to put together this afterschool music
> show for teens.

Dick Clark was never a popstar. He is an announcer, and a very good one.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

He was more than an announcer. He also promoted music.

"I was making a killing, racing around trying to get all the money I
could. My tentacles went in every direction. I didn't want to let an
opportunity go by."

--Dick Clark, reflections on the recording industry during the late 1950s

I was a child when he first appeared on the air, but I could see even
then that he saw music as a bauble or trinket to be marketted to
impressionable kids.

I don't suppose that alters the fact that he might have had some
technical skill at being a host.

It would be unfair to allow Dick Clark to go down in history as a good
announcer, rather than as an astute but callow promoter. One of Roger
McGuinn's "they're all waiting there/ to sell plasticware".

And actually, as for "astute"-- he utterly missed the significance of
the Beatles. You might say everybody else did too, but, in fact, Ed
Sullivan didn't. Clark also thought MTV would die a quick death.

Joe Sensor wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>
>> Remind me about how Dick Clark himself would be a manufactured popstar.
>>
>> I mean right now he's been around so long he's part of the woodwork,
>> but in the beginning he was just a radio announcer who got shoved in
>> front of this mic in a TV studio that was trying to put together this
>> afterschool music show for teens.
>
>
> Dick Clark was never a popstar. He is an announcer, and a very good one.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bill Van Dyk wrote:

> He was more than an announcer. He also promoted music.

Agreed.


> And actually, as for "astute"-- he utterly missed the significance of
> the Beatles. You might say everybody else did too, but, in fact, Ed
> Sullivan didn't.

I doubt that Sullivan could have foreseen the significance either.

> Clark also thought MTV would die a quick death.

Sadly he was mistaken. MTV should have died a quick death...
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:22:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, my point is that Sullivan heard about them, saw their fans waiting
for them at the airport in London, looked into them, and decided that
they were important enough to bring over to North America for their
debut on network television (Jack Paar had shown a tape previously, not
in prime time).

Dick Clark was too busy promoting Fabian and Frankie Avalon at the time
to notice. He never did have either the Beatles or Elvis.

I've never actually heard an authoritative explanation of why. Maybe
they wouldn't agree to lip synch.

Joe Sensor wrote:

>
> I doubt that Sullivan could have foreseen the significance either.
>
>> Clark also thought MTV would die a quick death.
>
>
> Sadly he was mistaken. MTV should have died a quick death...
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